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I've been in the "you can't just assume Hopkins/ARob are going to bounce back this year" camp as much as anybody. Maybe moreso than anybody. But even if you can say with 100% conviction that Hopkins has had the last elite season of his career surely you see the issue in trading away a guy with top 10 overall dynasty value for basically a pair of 2nd round rookie picks.
Yes he is in the late first. There is plenty of consensus on him going forward. The consensus is he is at worst a top 10 dynasty WR. What there is zero consensus on is the two rookies you are so adamantly defending as being more valuable than they really are.
I wouldn't take hop in the first unless it's a 20+ team league (and probably not then because qbs get up there). FBG rankings vary between 7-15 for wr, 6 (funny, the same staffer has him as the 7th wr; somehow he leaps over cooper and green with his overall ranking) - 28 overall. 
Year 2 151 targets, 80 receptions, 1400 yards, 14 touchdowns
Reality doesn't really care whether you believe in it or not. We have ADP data over many drafts that places him in the 10-15 overall range. Not to mention rankings on basically every major site that do the same (FBG 14, DLF 10, DFW 10, Dynasty Nerds 9).
I have my doubts about that even - that article could have been written by a HS student. Even if we ignore the faulty analysis and stretches of logic, it isn't even written well.
All true. But he was #27 in points last year in the Zealots PPR league I play in. Is Tom Savage an upgrade from Osweiler? Maybe/maybe not.FreeBaGeL said:
well the bolded is just silly, theres only been a single season since the breakout, he was destined for regressionbostonfred said:
Yeah, I'm in the camp that thinks Hopkins is overrated. He's a great WR, but we already saw his best season. He had nobody else taking targets, and the best QB he will ever have, the underrated Hoyer. Say what you want, but he made Hopkins, Josh Gordon, and Cam Meredith (Got on the same page as Hoyer for games 3 and 4) take the next step. I don't think that Watson or Savage will be good enough to get Hopkins the ball reliably. He doesn't separate a ton from CBs, so the QBs need to be great with timing. His speed is lacking, but he is technically amazing using leverage and timing to get small open windows even in tight coverage (see his games against Ramsey).
That's in a nutshell.FreeBaGeL said:
That's the goal, sure. But if you're not a believer and you don't get a market value offer then you're willing to take what you can get.
I'm in that league and entered the draft with every pick in top 15 except 8, 10 and 12 and we made him offers for some of his players when he took the team over and let it known we had interest in Hopkins. Our offers were refused, we got no counters. Other league members are surprised at the trade. This is not a case of someone shopping someone around and taking best offer they got. And even if that were the case, which it's not, it's June so what's the rush?
No idea what this means. How can someone be #7-#15 WR and yet be ranked as #6-#28 overall? RBs get a huge bump in 20 team leagues but not sure why we are even talking about that.-OZ- said:
#10 wr in dynasty is where I'd list him.
Regardless, this was a bad deal in reference to market value. The potential is certainly there for it to pan out.
Ask the staff.
NO. You win leagues by taking market value for guys you want to move and for forcing overpays for guys you like.
There's lots of ways to win leagues. That includes taking risks on up and comers and divesting of people that are teases.
Knowing what I know I don't think so. Unless something had transpired since the rookie drafts, which took place about a week after the draft, to make him covet Perine or Samuels a lot more. I say that because as I mentioned I'm in this league and had picks 1-6, 7, 9, 11 and 13-15 and let it be known at the time we had some interest in 3 of his players which were Brown, Gronk and Hopkins. Perine was drafted 12th and Samuels 16th so so if getting those players was a goal we gave him every opportunity and could not get an offer. Had he made one we'd have given him picks to take those players and then some.
This is true but market value changes. If you predict that their trade value is going to drop then taking less than his current start up adp value in trade is not only correct but much better than not taking anything. The mistake people usually make is not shopping their guy enough before accepting a low offer.
Neither would mike evans for devonte booker and Leonte carroo.
Maybe. I was just throwing out a quick example of a guy that was still a top 10 WR and a bounce back candidate at the beginning of 2016 being traded for two guys that typically went somewhere around 12-15 in the rookie draft.
I am probably much lower on Robinson than the vast majority of the community, but he remains a lock top 12 value at the position, and as I have stated time again, Robinson can be flipped for a top 12 receiver. Even though he is not my guy, I can get my guy with him. Take the value and run.bostonfred said:
Sure. The trade could work out. but based on meno's comments, it looks like the guy could have done better.
So if you think a house is worth $200k but the market says it's worth $400k, what would you think of a deal where it sold for $250k?
It's more like you think a house is worth $200k, the value of the same house in some parts of the city is worth $400k, but in your section of the city it is valued at $275k, and you sell for $250k. Just because the overall fantasy landscape views a player as a top 15 guy, doesn't mean your league will. In this specific case it looks like he just made a poor trade because there were other people interested in Hopkins and he could have traded Hopkins for more. But not every league views Hopkins as a top talent, and if you just want to move on you could be selling him below his value compared with overall dynasty rankings.
Spoken like a Robinson truther.
I'm my experience most people who make lopsided trades don't shop their players. At All. It's very rare for ALL 11 other owners to have the same opinion on a player.
Well this trade provided some discussion on a slow day and made me realize some people will try and defend any position but this was not a defensible trade and it's since been overturned. Not overturned due to disputes either, overturned because the guy who gave up Hopkins cited technical issues and never had intention of taking the trade, per him anyway but Hopkins is back on his roster.
That's why I didn't say $375k or $350k. If it were "close" to market value no one's going to have much to say. It's very hard to get full market value in some leagues, we get it. But someone is going to give more than that. Hell I would give more than that for a guy I hate just because I know he's worth more, and the guy trolling the discussion has even admitted the same opinion.
Well we did learn that we should join leagues you're in and buy Hopkins from youAll that for nothing!? Tell that guy thanks a lot!
I know this is a moot point but I'm not sure anyone was getting 1.06/2.02 for Cobb last year.
