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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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1 hour ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

Curious who you are targeting @ 1.10 ? Is this an IDP league ? Did you consider dealing Brady instead ?

It seems sorta like a trade just for the sake of trading. Would rather see Jimmy G bring back some type of quantified asset rather than a dart throw.

edited to add: For me Bridgewater has little chance at ever being fantasy relevent.

Yes it’s an IDP league

Don’t have anyone specific I am targeting yet at 10 but I think there are 10 guys in the draft that can help me, and I can only start one QB.

I considered trading Brady but he has almost no trade value in a dynasty league

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No, they won't accept

Barkley on this one, it isn't that close

You mean it went down in a league you used to be in??  I’d go ful Vontae Davis on that league asap 

1 hour ago, Concept Coop said:

Jimmy G is still a dart throw himself.  

The 1.10 feels like a big overpay to me.  Derek Carr, to pick one name, is younger, has a better resume, and doesn't cost the 1.10.  

Edit: Was wrong about Carr being younger.  

Better resume how. 3 career vbd and one out of 4 years as a QB1 with high placement of QB9. I think that's a terrible resume. 5% chance at Tom Brady is better than 50% chance at Eli Manning. You can make the same case against Carr comparing him to the next tier of QB. Better to get a cheaper option unless you're confident Carr will become elite (which I would view as highly unlikely at this point).

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1 hour ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

Agreed. Like asking for change for a dollar and getting back a quarter (2.09), dime (Treadwell) and a nickel (5.02)

Kupp may not have WR1 upside but he should fetch more than this.

Certainly non-PPR hurts his value and IDP helps the value of both picks. It's a trade that could work out but is still bad value.

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17 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

Better resume how. 3 career vbd and one out of 4 years as a QB1 with high placement of QB9. I think that's a terrible resume. 5% chance at Tom Brady is better than 50% chance at Eli Manning. You can make the same case against Carr comparing him to the next tier of QB. Better to get a cheaper option unless you're confident Carr will become elite (which I would view as highly unlikely at this point).

You're either mistaken about his career VBD, or using some funky baselines.  He was QB8 last year, PPG.  He finished 3rd in MVP voting last year.  And since you brought up Tom, go ahead and check out his stats through 4 seasons.  Do what you need to do to normalize across the two time periods - Carr's numbers still hold up.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

You're either mistaken about his career VBD, or using some funky baselines.  He was QB8 last year, PPG.  He finished 3rd in MVP voting last year.  And since you brought up Tom, go ahead and check out his stats through 4 seasons.  Do what you need to do to normalize across the two time periods - Carr's numbers still hold up.  

I know it's not the best because it doesn't count turnovers but at least it is published and free

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02.htm

If you think Carr has a chance to be elite like Tom post Branch then yes you should acquire him. But if you think he is WYSIWYG at this point, then I would rather gamble on Garoppolo than pay a lesser premium for zero to low VBD.

Especially when replacement level (McCown, Keenum) is close at or above that performance. Garoppolo is a gamble but Carr is bad strategy, IMO based on how I value/projejct those two.

Carr is someone you add a pick to to get Garoppolo or Mahomes, IMO.

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23 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

You're either mistaken about his career VBD, or using some funky baselines.  He was QB8 last year, PPG.  He finished 3rd in MVP voting last year.  And since you brought up Tom, go ahead and check out his stats through 4 seasons.  Do what you need to do to normalize across the two time periods - Carr's numbers still hold up.  

 

In my standard scoring league for QBs (25 yds/pt, 4pt TDs, -2 turnovers) Carr has been QB24 and QB10 the last two years in PPG.

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30 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

If you think Carr has a chance to be elite like Tom post Branch then yes you should acquire him. But if you think he is WYSIWYG at this point, then I would rather gamble on Garoppolo than pay a lesser premium for zero to low VBD.

Especially when replacement level (McCown, Keenum) is close at or above that performance. Garoppolo is a gamble but Carr is bad strategy, IMO based on how I value/projejct those two.

Carr is someone you add a pick to to get Garoppolo or Mahomes, IMO.

A lack of significant VBD 4 years into a QB career really doesn't relegate a player to a baseline career.  Brady, Ben, Ryan, and Brees for example (seriously - look).  Wentz, Stafford, and Luck are the exception, not the rule.  Calling his career to this point a bad resume is absolutely silly.  

For the record, I'm not calling Carr a buy.  I don't own him anywhere and am not in a hurry to acquire him.  But he's proven more than Jimmy and should be priced in the same range, at least.  

Edit: And he only gave you 3 VBD if you started him the week he didn't play.  

Edited by Concept Coop
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22 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

Calling his career to this point a bad resume is absolutely silly.  

It's hyperbole, yes, which can be silly. The point is to contest that it is a better resume than Garoppolo. Personally I'd prefer Garoppolo by enough to pay more. Given my perceived range of outcomes for both, Garoppolo has more upside, and that's all that matters at QB.

11 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

For the record, I'm not calling Carr a buy.  I don't own him anywhere and am not in a hurry to acquire him.  But he's proven more than Jimmy and should be priced in the same range, at least.  

Don't value proven too much given the peculiarities of the position in fantasy. I think we probably agree to some extent just hung up on the example and any hope for Carr. I don't mind game managers taking a while to develop but I don't necessarily see that narrative in Carr's career.

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30 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

Don't value proven too much given the peculiarities of the position in fantasy. I think we probably agree to some extent just hung up on the example and any hope for Carr. I don't mind game managers taking a while to develop but I don't necessarily see that narrative in Carr's career.

I think we're closer on Carr than we are Jimmy (and Mahomes).  But fair enough.  

Edited by Concept Coop
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1 hour ago, Concept Coop said:

I think we're closer on Carr than we are Jimmy (and Mahomes).  But fair enough.  

Maybe. I'm not going around offering 1sts for Garoppolo but I think he has a high floor and decent elite potential. I think giving 1.10 for Garoppolo has potential to work out great especially given this year's draft. Mahomes is complete boom/bust but willing to gamble. Worst case is Bortles not Manziel especially now that Smith is traded.

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25 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

12 Tm PPR - QRRWWWTF - 4 pt passing TDs

A got: Gurley, M. Jones

B got: Fournette, Wentz

man, that's a tough one.

(as in, it's a coin flip)

Edited by joey
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15 hours ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

Curious who you are targeting @ 1.10 ? Is this an IDP league ? Did you consider dealing Brady instead ?

It seems sorta like a trade just for the sake of trading. Would rather see Jimmy G bring back some type of quantified asset rather than a dart throw.

edited to add: For me Bridgewater has little chance at ever being fantasy relevent.

Why should a guy who started 5-6 games to end the year bring back the 1.10, let alone more? To me, I’d sell for any 2 and buy only for a 3. Fools gold.

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3 hours ago, Raback said:

I don’t see this deal as particularly close.  Gurley side easily for me 

Wentz is possibly the top QB in dynasty. Fournette IMO is a top 10, which makes it close. I'd take Gurley because QB isn't hard to find in 12 team leagues but it's fairly close.

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

Wentz is possibly the top QB in dynasty. Fournette IMO is a top 10, which makes it close. I'd take Gurley because QB isn't hard to find in 12 team leagues but it's fairly close.

No time for love, Marvin jones.

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

He's a strong wr3. Not all that valuable.

He finished as WR12 last season.

ETA: and is a start 3WR league a strong WR3 would theoretically be worth the same as a QB1. 

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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1 minute ago, -OZ- said:

Do you expect him to repeat? I sure don't.

I think he could have a strong WR2 type season, sure. He's shown flashes before and is in his prime WR years.

Also I edited to add this: and in a start 3WR league a strong WR3 would theoretically be worth the same as a QB1.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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12 hours ago, Concept Coop said:

12 Tm PPR - QRRWWWTF - 4 pt passing TDs

A got: Gurley, M. Jones

B got: Fournette, Wentz

I'm a Fournette owner. I like the Gurley side assuming A still has a good QB to start. This trade made me make an offer to the Gurley owner. I doubt he accepts, but I had to try.

Edited by Magic_Man
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14 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think he could have a strong WR2 type season, sure. He's shown flashes before and is in his prime WR years.

Also I edited to add this: and is a start 3WR league a strong WR3 would theoretically be worth the same as a strong QB1.

Maybe a wr2 I can see. 

We could debate wr3 vs qb1, but there's no chance I'd trade Wentz or a couple other QBs for Jones or any other player I see as a dynasty wr3.

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2 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Maybe a wr2 I can see. 

We could debate wr3 cc'd qb1, but there's no chance I'd trade Wentz or a couple other QBs for Jones or any other player I see as a dynasty wr3.

I wouldn't either - and it's why I used "theoretically". I guess I just agreed with @Snorkelson that he doesn't really deserved to not even be mentioned in the analysis at all.

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10 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Fair enough. But I'll always include a guy like him in a deal if it gets me Gurley.

he was on the Gurley side - which makes it even more lopsided to that side imo (and frankly I'm not even a huge Jones fan).

Wentz > Jones (but QBs are very replaceable so it's closer to even)

Gurley >> Fournette

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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46 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Do you expect him to repeat? I sure don't.

Why not? Nothing has changed, afaik. Patricia is bringing JBC back as the OC. Marvin did that damage on just 107 targets. Plus, he's pretty good at jump balls: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915001/article/stefon-diggs-marvin-jones-among-top-10-tightwindow-receivers

I think the trust he's earned from Stafford will continue to pay off. If they can get the running game going, it'll open things up even more for downfield passing. If Jones gets a mere 120 targets, he could do much better than just repeating last year.

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13 hours ago, Concept Coop said:

12 Tm PPR - QRRWWWTF - 4 pt passing TDs

A got: Gurley, M. Jones

B got: Fournette, Wentz

If I was #4-#8 last year I would probably rather have Fournette and Wentz. If I had 10+ wins last year and had another QB I would probably want Gurley.

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FTR, I'm the new Gurley owner.  Wentz is my dynasty QB1, Bradford is my only other QB, and I still saw Marvin Jones as free in this deal. In a 12 Tm, 4pt passing league, no QB bridges the gap between a top 3 player and a top 15 player for me.

As for Jones - I like him.  He's a low end WR2, but you need him in your WR3 spot to feel good about it.  I am not expecting a repeat of last season, but will be happy with top 25 numbers, which feels like a pretty safe projection.

It's a fun time to need a QB.  I'll find something.

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57 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

FTR, I'm the new Gurley owner.  Wentz is my dynasty QB1, Bradford is my only other QB, and I still saw Marvin Jones as free in this deal. In a 12 Tm, 4pt passing league, no QB bridges the gap between a top 3 player and a top 15 player for me.

As for Jones - I like him.  He's a low end WR2, but you need him in your WR3 spot to feel good about it.  I am not expecting a repeat of last season, but will be happy with top 25 numbers, which feels like a pretty safe projection.

It's a fun time to need a QB.  I'll find something.

Thanks for providing a nice conclusion to the most recent dialogue posted herein. I think that you know what you're doing, and can handle the challenge of finding a replacement for Wentz - lots of options on the horizon which will become more clear as the weeks go forward. GL in your quest. :thumbup:

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5 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Wentz is possibly the top QB in dynasty. Fournette IMO is a top 10, which makes it close. I'd take Gurley because QB isn't hard to find in 12 team leagues but it's fairly close.

I personally think there is a rather large gap between Gurley and Fournette.  Wentz for Jones is pretty close in a 12 team 4 pt passing TD league so it’s the Gurley side for me easily.  

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2 minutes ago, jonrolly said:

Gave- 1.8, 3.12, Kelvin Benjamin

Got- Wentz, Ajayi, Aaron Jones, Funchess

I'll take the Wentz side easily.

A dart throw at 1.8 (plus spare parts of 3.12 and Kelvin) is no way equal in value to a top QB, 1 good RB, 1 young RB with upside and a #1 WR who flashed this year at times.

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40 minutes ago, jonrolly said:

Gave- 1.8, 3.12, Kelvin Benjamin

Got- Wentz, Ajayi, Aaron Jones, Funchess

I might take that package for the 4 instead of the 8. Very nice deal.

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