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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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No, they won't accept

You mean it went down in a league you used to be in??  I’d go ful Vontae Davis on that league asap 

Barkley on this one, it isn't that close

4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

No, but it seems it's being used more this year than in years past.  Perhaps I'm wrong about that :shrug:

Yeah, buzz phrases stink, but if it's a legitimate concept, perhaps the inartful name is something one can live with.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, buzz phrases stink, but if it's a legitimate concept, perhaps the inartful name is something one can live with.

Oh, I don't have an issue with it, just something I noticed.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Oh, I don't have an issue with it, just something I noticed.

Cool. Maybe it's like when the concept itself hits peak mainstream the phrase gets repeated ad nauseam and thus it gets noticed a lot more. I had seen some people in here using it and then saw a bunch of fantasy sites using it, too. I was aware of the basic idea behind it, but not the terminology.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I own Williams in 3 out of 5 leagues, so of course I do like him, but I agree that his "legend" has really been built up on these boards.

Going from being an UDFA to a starting role in his rookie season is very impressive, but it did happen on a trainwreck of a team that could still add more talent at the position in this draft, and it's not like he dominated. He was very solid for a rookie and he looked good so I'm encouraged, but with that said it's likely a winning proposition to trade an NFL UDFA for an NFL first round pick, after one season, 85% of the time - especially when that first round pick really didn't get a chance to show much due to injury. 

I agree to an extent.  The Fins weren't as bad as people thought last year.  Also, I'd argue that Harry shouldn't have been a 1st rounder (I think it was a NE miss and they miss a lot when drafting WRs if you look back).  They passed on Deebo, AJ Brown, and DK.  I get the argument but I like the separation Williams gets much better and NE still doesn't have a real QB on the roster.

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5 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

I agree to an extent.  The Fins weren't as bad as people thought last year.  Also, I'd argue that Harry shouldn't have been a 1st rounder (I think it was a NE miss and they miss a lot when drafting WRs if you look back).  They passed on Deebo, AJ Brown, and DK.  I get the argument but I like the separation Williams gets much better and NE still doesn't have a real QB on the roster.

Despite my reservations, I still like the deal, I just might have asked for more. But I'm really quoting you because BB has missed on a bunch of receivers and I don't think N'Keal Harry should have been a first-rounder. That said, they have a lot of draft capital invested in him, so he'll get every opportunity others might not get. He'll get a wide berth most likely, and that sort of berth can lead to volume, which can lead to fantasy relevance. 

Edited by rockaction
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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Despite my reservations, I still like the deal, I just might have asked for more. But I'm really quoting you because BB has missed on a bunch of receivers and I don't think N'Keal Harry should have been a first-rounder. That said, they have a lot of draft captial invested in him, so he'll get every opportunity others might not get. He'll get a wide berth most likely, and that sort of berth can lead to volume, which can lead to fantasy relevance. 

Totally agree there.  Teams don't like admitting they are wrong (especially in the 1st).  So he will get a ton of opportunities and the Pats should still be decent without TB12.  I definitely get the argument and until we know what Tua can be in Miami (or whatever QB they draft), it is hard to say for sure who has the most upside but I'm sure Miami would give up on Williams well before NE does on Harry.

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Just now, Jonesin For Some Football said:

I agree to an extent.  The Fins weren't as bad as people thought last year.  Also, I'd argue that Harry shouldn't have been a 1st rounder (I think it was a NE miss and they miss a lot when drafting WRs if you look back).  They passed on Deebo, AJ Brown, and DK.  I get the argument but I like the separation Williams gets much better and NE still doesn't have a real QB on the roster.

Miami had five wins last season and started off the year with some historic level blowouts. Sure that's better than the zero some expected but they got some Fitzmagic and played some other terrible teams like the Jets, Washington, Cinncy etc. Nevertheless, they were still devoid of talent on their roster. They have a lot of picks this draft and there are a lot of good WRs available - who knows what they do?

It's way too early to say in New England made a mistake by passing on those guys for Harry. As much as we claim dynasty is a long term play, it's funny how most owners still take a redraft approach and want instant gratification. You may end up being right and I don't disagree in that I would rather roster those guys right now as well - but draft position is the most efficient market for evaluating talent until we have a large sample size on the NFL field.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Miami had five wins last season and started off the year with some historic level blowouts. Sure that's better than the zero some expected but they got some Fitzmagic and played some other terrible teams like the Jets, Washington, Cinncy etc. Nevertheless, they were still devoid of talent on their roster. They have a lot of picks this draft and there are a lot of good WRs available - who knows what they do?

It's way too early to say in New England made a mistake by passing on those guys for Harry. As much as we claim dynasty is a long term play, it's funny how most owners still take a redraft approach and want instant gratification. You may end up being right and I don't disagree in that I would rather roster those guys right now as well - but draft position is the most efficient market for evaluating talent until we have a large sample size on the NFL field.

All true.  Obviously Harry has upside.  I just don't trust NE's WR drafting ability personally.  You are also very right on Miami lacking talent with selling their top players for draft picks and cutting guys.  I guess I was lower on Harry than those guys during the draft last year personally so I value him less before draft position.  You definitely aren't wrong though.

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Just moved;

2021 1st

2021 3rd

Darwin Thompson

Dionte Johnson

Jaelen Reagor

 

for

JuJu

Pittman Jr

2021 2nd

I wanted to bundle Reagor and the 1st for a RB because I need a solid one in the worst way, but no one was willing to move a guy I liked. I ultimately went with JuJu and have a nice core of young WR now as a result along with some dart throws at RB.

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9 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I own Williams in 3 out of 5 leagues, so of course I do like him, but I agree that his "legend" has really been built up on these boards.

Going from being an UDFA to a starting role in his rookie season is very impressive, but it did happen on a trainwreck of a team that could still add more talent at the position in this draft, and it's not like he dominated. He was very solid for a rookie and he looked good so I'm encouraged, but with that said it's likely a winning proposition to trade an NFL UDFA for an NFL first round pick, after one season, 85% of the time - especially when that first round pick really didn't get a chance to show much due to injury. 

 

On the other hand, aren't 1st round WRs who miss their rookie seasons also extremely low percentage bets, even when it's predominately due to injury?

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6 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

Just moved;

2021 1st

2021 3rd

Darwin Thompson

Dionte Johnson

Jaelen Reagor

 

for

JuJu

Pittman Jr

2021 2nd

I wanted to bundle Reagor and the 1st for a RB because I need a solid one in the worst way, but no one was willing to move a guy I liked. I ultimately went with JuJu and have a nice core of young WR now as a result along with some dart throws at RB.

 

Really like this for you, . JuJu imo is the prize but I also think there's a chance you also got the second most valuable piece in Pittman Jr. who right now I narrowly prefer to Reagor and Dionte. Pedigree and landing spot will shed some light.

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6 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

Just moved;

2021 1st

2021 3rd

Darwin Thompson

Dionte Johnson

Jaelen Reagor

 

for

JuJu

Pittman Jr

2021 2nd

I wanted to bundle Reagor and the 1st for a RB because I need a solid one in the worst way, but no one was willing to move a guy I liked. I ultimately went with JuJu and have a nice core of young WR now as a result along with some dart throws at RB.

I think this is a great move really.  As long as that 1st next year isn't a high one.  I agree that Juju is by far the best player here and you got a very good talent in Pittman as well as a 2nd back.  Good trade and buy low on Juju.  I'm trying to do the same in my league.

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Zealots PPR IDP Dynasty

Team A gives

Melvin Gordon
K.J. Wright
Jason Pierre-Paul

Team B gives

2021 1st (likely mid)
2020 2.07
Chase Edmonds

Team A has Drake

Edited by rockaction
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15 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I own Williams in 3 out of 5 leagues, so of course I do like him, but I agree that his "legend" has really been built up on these boards.

Going from being an UDFA to a starting role in his rookie season is very impressive, but it did happen on a trainwreck of a team that could still add more talent at the position in this draft, and it's not like he dominated. He was very solid for a rookie and he looked good so I'm encouraged, but with that said it's likely a winning proposition to trade an NFL UDFA for an NFL first round pick, after one season, 85% of the time - especially when that first round pick really didn't get a chance to show much due to injury. 

Blasphemy

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Zealots PPR IDP Dynasty

Team A gives

Melvin Gordon
K.J. Wright
Jason Pierre-Paul

Team B gives

2021 1st (likely mid)
2020 2.07
Chase Edmonds

Team A has Drake

Solid trade but I prefer the picks. 

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Team A is opening their window up longer with the trade while Team B is in win now mode. Probably fair trade that fills both owners needs.

 I’d prefer the picks side as well. While I like KJ Wright and he’s continued to be productive, age is not on his side. 

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17 hours ago, rockaction said:

Zealots PPR IDP Dynasty

Team A gives

Melvin Gordon
K.J. Wright
Jason Pierre-Paul

Team B gives

2021 1st (likely mid)
2020 2.07
Chase Edmonds

Team A has Drake

Team A wins the trade. There are not a lot of people that currently see much value in Gordon, so this trade was a best case scenario if you wanted to move him. The IDPs aren't big losses, so Team A did well.

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FFPC

Traded 1.02, 3.04, 4.05 for

1.04, 2.01

I now have 1.04, 1.06, 2.01, 2.02, 2.03 and I'm very confident the guy I want at 1.04 will be there. If by chance he's not, I'll take what I get at 1.04 & 2.01 over him and still be happy

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15 hours ago, Chad Parsons said:

12tm PPR, deeper rosters

David Johnson, Brandin Cooks, Alston Jeffery

for

DK Metcalf, Nyheim Hines, 3.08, 4.02

 

14 hours ago, rockaction said:

Even but definitely give me the Metcalf side.

Metcalf side.   I think that’s terrible.  Three beat up nickels for a dollar. Depending how deep the league is, hines and the picks have value as well

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4 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

Metcalf side.   I think that’s terrible.  Three beat up nickels for a dollar. Depending how deep the league is, hines and the picks have value as well

I agree with you. I think my "even" is misleading. Industry calculators have it at even. I think they're very wrong.

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8 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

 

Metcalf side.   I think that’s terrible.  Three beat up nickels for a dollar. Depending how deep the league is, hines and the picks have value as well

No one will touch David Johnson in the league I have him. The best counter I received was a 2.10. I also have Cooks in that league. If I could package both for DK it would be a no brainer (and I still like Cooks a lot).

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6 hours ago, Penguin said:

FFPC

Traded 1.02, 3.04, 4.05 for

1.04, 2.01

I now have 1.04, 1.06, 2.01, 2.02, 2.03 and I'm very confident the guy I want at 1.04 will be there. If by chance he's not, I'll take what I get at 1.04 & 2.01 over him and still be happy

All about personal preference...if you are real high on only two players the price for getting the 1.2 is solid...if you are real high on four players then you added another quality pick with the 2.1 and that makes sense...if there is a risk that the guy you really want at 1.4 will not be there I would not make this deal because the return is not lights out.

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6 hours ago, Penguin said:

FFPC

Traded 1.02, 3.04, 4.05 for

1.04, 2.01

I now have 1.04, 1.06, 2.01, 2.02, 2.03 and I'm very confident the guy I want at 1.04 will be there. If by chance he's not, I'll take what I get at 1.04 & 2.01 over him and still be happy

I like this kind of deal AFTER the NFL draft.  My concern with making this type of deal now is what happens if the 2-3 guys you like at 1.04 go to horrible situations?  Now you either have to take your guy in a bad situation or drop down a tier and take a guy you don’t have ranked as highly in a good situation.  

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1 hour ago, Boone22 said:

I like this kind of deal AFTER the NFL draft.  My concern with making this type of deal now is what happens if the 2-3 guys you like at 1.04 go to horrible situations?  Now you either have to take your guy in a bad situation or drop down a tier and take a guy you don’t have ranked as highly in a good situation.  

Everyone says after. What if there are a few guys ahead of you that also want to drop down because of the nature of the draft pool this year? Asking for a friend...

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36 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Everyone says after. What if there are a few guys ahead of you that also want to drop down because of the nature of the draft pool this year? Asking for a friend...

Then you don’t drop back.  You take one of your 3-4 guys in the best situation at 1.02.

 

edited it add...  Also, since he’s already sitting at 1.02 and he only wanted to drop back to 1.04, there can’t be too many “other” guys in a better position than him to make a deal.

Edited by Boone22
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Just now, Boone22 said:

Then you don’t drop back.  You take one of your 3-4 guys in the best situation at 1.02.

Solid, but even if rebuilding? Don't you want bodies and the extra picks? I'm asking prodding questions, and looking for what you really believe, so don't sugarcoat it.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Solid, but even if rebuilding? Don't you want bodies and the extra picks? I'm asking prodding questions, and looking for what you really believe, so don't sugarcoat it.

I personally don’t want bodies if those bodies are in crappy situations.  That’s my person perspective.  I don’t want to wait 3-4 years for a guy to produce.  I’d rather have a stud in a great situation than a stud in a crappy situation + a “possibly” good player at 13 with who knows what kind of situation.  

i’m honestly not trying to sugarcoat anything.  I like the trade IF I know what situations those players are drafted into (after the draft).  I don’t like the trade at this time.  Simple as that. 

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3 hours ago, Boone22 said:

I personally don’t want bodies if those bodies are in crappy situations.  That’s my person perspective.  I don’t want to wait 3-4 years for a guy to produce.  I’d rather have a stud in a great situation than a stud in a crappy situation + a “possibly” good player at 13 with who knows what kind of situation.  

i’m honestly not trying to sugarcoat anything.  I like the trade IF I know what situations those players are drafted into (after the draft).  I don’t like the trade at this time.  Simple as that. 

Didn't think you were, which is why I asked. Thanks for your input. Great question about the Supplemental Draft a few weeks ago, too, so I know I've got a thoughtful source chiming in. Anyway, this helps me out. Further clarifies the thought process.

3 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Guys in rebuilds are likely looking more long term. Anyways, ots not like 1.04 isnt as likely to be a hit as 1.02... he didn't trade out of the first round. 2.01 may very well be an immediate hit too... I wouldnt expect 2.1 to have to wait 3-4 years... maybe 3.1. 2.1 is a great great pick this year, and I'm down on this draft compared to most

So does this, the contra.

Edited by rockaction
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10 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Guys in rebuilds are likely looking more long term. Anyways, ots not like 1.04 isnt as likely to be a hit as 1.02... he didn't trade out of the first round. 2.01 may very well be an immediate hit too... I wouldnt expect 2.1 to have to wait 3-4 years... maybe 3.1. 2.1 is a great great pick this year, and I'm down on this draft compared to most

That’s fine as your perspective.  I’m personally more of a situation guy.  I think those top 4-5 guys are interchangeable in terms of talent... most people may disagree with me... that’s fine.   I want to know where they land and the 1.02 gives me that flexibility. That’s why the 1.02 is consistently worth more than the 1.04 every year.
 

And I’m not sure where this “rebuilding” concept came from. The guy posting the original trade never said he was rebuilding.  He said he thought his guy would be there at 1.04.  

Edited by Boone22
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Just now, Boone22 said:

That’s fine as your perspective.  I’m personally more of a situation guy.  I think those top 4-5 guys are interchangeable in terms of talent... most people may disagree with me... that’s fine.   I want to know where they land and the 1.02 gives me that flexibility. That’s why the 1.02 is consistently worth more than the 1.94 every year. 
 

And I’m not sure where this “rebuilding” concept came from. The guy posting the original trade never said he was rebuilding.  He said he thought his guy would be there at 1.04.  

Agreed...bottom-line is you control your own destiny far more which is where you want to be right now...especially when the return is the 13th player in the draft...IMO that is not enough to lose control over what you can do.

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Been trying to put my thoughts on this into words and that post clicked for me--I like having 1.01 or 1.02 because there's value in being in the power position. You're guaranteed your top player at RB or WR or the 2nd player at either position if he's better than the 1st player of the other. You control your destiny.

But even if you're planning to sell, it's rare for the picks to lose value. Selling now feels like a suckers play most years. Not a bad deal by any means but I'd want to be holding a top 2 pick as the NFL picks are rolling in.

You think rookie hype is high now? Wait until owners know what uniforms to daydream those prospects in and project best-case scenarios into. 2.01 is good in this class but not enough for me to give up that power.

I only play in devy leagues now (but that wasn't always the case) so the value is different, but the dropoff between tiers can be even greater because of the depleted player pool.

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Curious on this one. I felt strongly about one side, but another leaguemate whose opinion I respect felt strongly the other way.

12 Team PPR, QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex, 30 man rosters

Team A:
Tyreek Hill

Team B:
Melvin Gordon
TY Hilton
2.02
3.02
3.13 (toilet bowl winner's pick)

Edited by floods
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2 minutes ago, floods said:

Curious on this one. I felt strongly about one side, but another leaguemate who's opinion I respect felt strongly the other way.

12 Team PPR, QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex, 30 man rosters

Team A:
Tyreek Hill

Team B:
Melvin Gordon
TY Hilton
2.02
3.02
3.13 (toilet bowl winner's pick)

First blush has side getting Hill by a lot, checked with calc and it's side getting Hill by a lot.

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3 minutes ago, floods said:

Curious on this one. I felt strongly about one side, but another leaguemate whose opinion I respect felt strongly the other way.

12 Team PPR, QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex, 30 man rosters

Team A:
Tyreek Hill

Team B:
Melvin Gordon
TY Hilton
2.02
3.02
3.13 (toilet bowl winner's pick)

That kind of trade is what builds champions, moving lesser pieces (and older pieces losing value like Hilton) for elite young studs. Give me Hill without question. 

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Been trying to put my thoughts on this into words and that post clicked for me--I like having 1.01 or 1.02 because there's value in being in the power position. You're guaranteed your top player at RB or WR or the 2nd player at either position if he's better than the 1st player of the other. You control your destiny.

But even if you're planning to sell, it's rare for the picks to lose value. Selling now feels like a suckers play most years. Not a bad deal by any means but I'd want to be holding a top 2 pick as the NFL picks are rolling in.

You think rookie hype is high now? Wait until owners know what uniforms to daydream those prospects in and project best-case scenarios into. 2.01 is good in this class but not enough for me to give up that power.

I only play in devy leagues now (but that wasn't always the case) so the value is different, but the dropoff between tiers can be even greater because of the depleted player pool.

I’ve been thinking about this a bit more and I came up with another reason I’d prefer to Keep the 1.02.  Now I’ll be making quite a few assumptions so bare with me.  I know this may be unlikely but it is something to think about.

There’s another longer term play that has a bunch of risk but could also pay off for the original poster if he held onto the 1.02.   So let’s assume the 1.02 is a stud in a very nice situation.   And the guy (or guys) he wanted at 1.04 fall into poor situations.   He could always take the stud in the good situation at 1.02 and wait until mid season or the end of the year and then make an offer to those guys who have those 2-3 guys he was interested in the draft   Chances are, the value of one or more of those guys has dropped because they were in poor situations and either split time or didn’t play while the stud he drafted only increased in value because he started and performed.  
 

Now like I said, I know this is a riskier play because one or more of “his guys” could have overcome the situation and blown up  and now they are out of reach... But if at least one of them didn’t, now he’s sitting on a stud that he’s willing to move for what is perceived to be a lesser player because of the poor situation.  And most likely in that situation he’d be able to get additional value... probably more than what he would have gotten at the 2.01.  

 

Let me also say, I don’t think the original deal was a bad one, I just would have waited on it if possible...

 

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41 minutes ago, floods said:

Curious on this one. I felt strongly about one side, but another leaguemate whose opinion I respect felt strongly the other way.

12 Team PPR, QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex, 30 man rosters

Team A:
Tyreek Hill

Team B:
Melvin Gordon
TY Hilton
2.02
3.02
3.13 (toilet bowl winner's pick)

Definitely Hill...the Hill owner is very lucky here...he was able to get a legit fantasy stud who is only 26 and did not give up any real core assets...first of all not giving up a first round pick when obtaining Hill is a small miracle...Hilton is 30 years old and the exact type of player you should not be targeting when giving up a stud...Gordon has some appeal but does not move the needle too much for me in this package...a deal like this makes zero sense to me for many reasons but here is the biggest...you can absolutely find a better deal...no way I will believe you can't do considerably better when you are dangling foundation piece like Hill.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

This is pretty horrible. 

Gave up 2 aging players, 2.02 isnt a bad piece but isnt great, and 2 dart throws for a top 5, young dynasty wr.

This deal needs a 1st round pick I stead of 2.02 or 3.02... 

Classic example of loading up one side with a lot of "meh" or just plain worthless pieces to try and equal value of 1 player on the other side. 

Maybe 2 years ago this trade makes sense. Maybe...

These are the type of deals you used to get away with in fantasy 25 years ago...I will give you five guys for your one guy...come'on, how can you beat that?

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1 hour ago, floods said:

Curious on this one. I felt strongly about one side, but another leaguemate whose opinion I respect felt strongly the other way.

12 Team PPR, QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex, 30 man rosters

Team A:
Tyreek Hill

Team B:
Melvin Gordon
TY Hilton
2.02
3.02
3.13 (toilet bowl winner's pick)

I prefer the Hill side but in a 30 man  roster league don't feel as strongly negative about it was others have posted and the only WR  I would even consider taking over Hill in dynasty is Thomas.

Hilton is only about 4 years older then Hill, a prime 4 year period in his career for sure but it's not dealing some massive 7-8 year age gap. Melvin Gordon I believe should be in position to give you two really good year and in a really deep draft and large roster size league I really like the WR prospects you can get with picks 14 and 26.

Again I'd still prefer Hill side, but don't think this is as bad as others.

Edited by menobrown
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11 hours ago, Penguin said:

FFPC

Traded 1.02, 3.04, 4.05 for

1.04, 2.01

I now have 1.04, 1.06, 2.01, 2.02, 2.03 and I'm very confident the guy I want at 1.04 will be there. If by chance he's not, I'll take what I get at 1.04 & 2.01 over him and still be happy

This one is difficult for me, all depends how things look after the NFL draft.

But typically I like to be in the driver seat with a top pick. I think it's often easier to trade back then if things shake out where a top 2-3 tier forms and you want to move up.

Personally I'd not have done this deal now if I was you and if I was going to consider it I'm not giving up the 3rd and 4th either. It's 4/13 for 2 and that's all I'd consider.

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Just now, Dr. Dan said:

12 team. 30 man rosters

And Hill is younger than Hilton

Just a bunch of typos on my part.

I knew it was 30 man rosters, not teams. And that's still very impactful and obviously now Hill is younger.

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

Everyone says after. What if there are a few guys ahead of you that also want to drop down because of the nature of the draft pool this year? Asking for a friend...

Not me. It depends, looking at everything in context, but generally I don't care for the "wait for x,y,z to happen because the value will be more in your favor or it will be easier to make a trade, etc." There is absolutely truth to some of that, and it is often the wise move. But here is the thing - the clock is ticking and if you want to make a deal, others might beat you to it. Don't be making a deal for the sake of making a deal, but once a deal is done with someone else it is *much* harder to get a new deal done. That person could flip whatever they bought to you, but in my experience most people who bought an asset are either looking for more when they flip, or they really wanted whatever it is they bought. 

So being first can absolutely matter. And to me it often matters more than a marginal, even moderate value loss that comes from doing a deal today rather than waiting until later. As for moving back with draft picks, if you're truly comfortable with the 1.04 then I say pull the trigger while the action is there.

Edited by barackdhouse
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6 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

12 team FFPC

I gave 1.10, 2021 1st & 3rd (from league champ whose team is stacked), and my own 2021 3rd (playoff team)
I got Henderson, 1.12, 2.03

I think the Henderson side wins in value. Not sure what to make of Henderson myself...

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  • Gottabesweet changed the title to ****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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