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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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Dealt Conner (3 years), Snell (taxi), and McLaurin (taxi) for Evans (last year remaining). 

We have a nice franchise tag rule (drop $10 before RFA, only need to match half of high bid, and I have a TON of cash).

Will now start Hopkins, Evans and Cooper at WR.  RB was already fairly set with Zeke and Bell with White as my backup.  

I feel pretty good about it.  I went to championship week last season and team fell flat.  I think I'll be in the running again.

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No, they won't accept

I don't know why so many people are saying that this is a fair return (despite preferring CMC as they should). It isn't. This is a fraction of what it should cost for a guy like CMC, either that or th

It's a bit much to say the trade should be overturned. It's just a bunch of junk for a bunch of junk.

1 hour ago, EBF said:

The argument is simply that he had freakish efficiency last season and could scale into an FF monster with more looks. Very similar to the arguments about Tyreek after his first 1-2 years in the NFL when he hadn't gone nuclear yet. Deebo's rookie year was actually a lot better than Tyreek's, so you'd have to go to Tyreek's second year to find a decent parallel:

Hill 2017 - 105 targets, 75 receptions, 1,183 yards, 15 "big" plays (20+ yards), 11.3 yards per target

Samuel 2019 - 81 targets, 57 receptions, 802 yards, 17 "big" plays (20+ yards), 9.9 yards per target

This is a guy who showed a freaky ability to break big plays in the preseason, carried it over into the regular season, and had a strong overall FF campaign on just 81 targets. The idea that somehow he lacks upside or has hit his ceiling already seems borderline insane. He ranked 65th in the NFL in targets last season. A modest uptick in targets without a major loss in efficiency can pretty easily catapult him into the top 10-15 FF WRs. I understand that some people can't get past the idea that SF's offense will limit his chances, but there's really nowhere to go but up from a targets/looks standpoint.

I don't really get how people look at rookies like Lamb and Jeudy and think they have more upside. They have less physical talent and are less proven, whereas this guy has a freaky size/speed combo and has already shown that his skill set translates to the NFL. It's just a strange market inefficiency, but I think most of his owners recognize that they have a good asset on their hands and won't sell for skeptic prices. It took a while for Hill's consensus value to catch up with his actual value and it feels like a repeat of that here. I don't think Samuel is as elite as Hill, but most sites have him around dynasty WR25 right now and that's underselling the risk/reward equation that he offers. He belongs 5-10 spots higher on the overall dynasty WR board and should be drafted ahead of every rookie WR in startups.

I've been thinking hus upside is capped, but this is a solid argument.  Time for me to rethink a bit.  Thanks.

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4 hours ago, EBF said:

The argument is simply that he had freakish efficiency last season and could scale into an FF monster with more looks. Very similar to the arguments about Tyreek after his first 1-2 years in the NFL when he hadn't gone nuclear yet. Deebo's rookie year was actually a lot better than Tyreek's, so you'd have to go to Tyreek's second year to find a decent parallel:

Hill 2017 - 105 targets, 75 receptions, 1,183 yards, 15 "big" plays (20+ yards), 11.3 yards per target

Samuel 2019 - 81 targets, 57 receptions, 802 yards, 17 "big" plays (20+ yards), 9.9 yards per target

This is a guy who showed a freaky ability to break big plays in the preseason, carried it over into the regular season, and had a strong overall FF campaign on just 81 targets. The idea that somehow he lacks upside or has hit his ceiling already seems borderline insane. He ranked 65th in the NFL in targets last season. A modest uptick in targets without a major loss in efficiency can pretty easily catapult him into the top 10-15 FF WRs. I understand that some people can't get past the idea that SF's offense will limit his chances, but there's really nowhere to go but up from a targets/looks standpoint.

I don't really get how people look at rookies like Lamb and Jeudy and think they have more upside. They have less physical talent and are less proven, whereas this guy has a freaky size/speed combo and has already shown that his skill set translates to the NFL. It's just a strange market inefficiency, but I think most of his owners recognize that they have a good asset on their hands and won't sell for skeptic prices. It took a while for Hill's consensus value to catch up with his actual value and it feels like a repeat of that here. I don't think Samuel is as elite as Hill, but most sites have him around dynasty WR25 right now and that's underselling the risk/reward equation that he offers. He belongs 5-10 spots higher on the overall dynasty WR board and should be drafted ahead of every rookie WR in startups.

Started digging and was quickly reminded of one reason I've seen him as having capped upside.  

In weeks 10 and 11 with Kittle injured, he put up 16 catches for 246 yards, which were 28% and 30% of his season totals for those respective stats.  

Now, I'm not seeing anybody really argue against his talent, but I think that two week period relative to the rest of the season is pretty striking.  The targets will probably go up, but I recall discovering that stat earlier this offseason when doing season reviews and looking for buying opportunities and considering it a major turn off.  Its kind of similar to the AJ Brown discussion, except in that scenario we are talking about the head and shoulders best option in the passing game and in this case we're talking about the clear #2, with a 1st round rookie waiting to steal targets as well.  Now it's possible if not likely that SFs season goes much differently and they have to chase more games, but even in that scenario he faces much more competition than AJB.  I know you didn't make this comparison but it seems worth mentioning if you are talking top 10-15 upside.

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1 hour ago, Vandelay said:

Started digging and was quickly reminded of one reason I've seen him as having capped upside.  

In weeks 10 and 11 with Kittle injured, he put up 16 catches for 246 yards, which were 28% and 30% of his season totals for those respective stats.  

Now, I'm not seeing anybody really argue against his talent, but I think that two week period relative to the rest of the season is pretty striking.  The targets will probably go up, but I recall discovering that stat earlier this offseason when doing season reviews and looking for buying opportunities and considering it a major turn off.  Its kind of similar to the AJ Brown discussion, except in that scenario we are talking about the head and shoulders best option in the passing game and in this case we're talking about the clear #2, with a 1st round rookie waiting to steal targets as well.  Now it's possible if not likely that SFs season goes much differently and they have to chase more games, but even in that scenario he faces much more competition than AJB.  I know you didn't make this comparison but it seems worth mentioning if you are talking top 10-15 upside.

A rookie WR with 961 yards in 15 games on a tiny target share is worth getting excited about. Let’s not overthink it

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13 minutes ago, Edgar said:

A rookie WR with 961 yards in 15 games on a tiny target share is worth getting excited about. Let’s not overthink it

Right. Why does there seem to be a perception that he's permanently locked into the role he played as a rookie?

It used to be that we gave WRs 2-3 years before we judged them, but now his ceiling is capped after his rookie year? Makes no sense.

I went through and looked at the top 20 WRs in the NFL last year in receiving yards. 16/20 of them had more targets in their second season than they did in their rookie year, and one of the guys who didn't was injured in his second year (Kupp). Another one was Edelman, who didn't really break out in any real capacity until his 5th NFL season. By and large, the WRs who eventually became good NFL players saw their role GROW in year two.

Every now and then you get a fluke type of guy like Michael Clayton or Keary Colbert who has a solid rookie year and then falls off the face of the Earth, but it's pretty odd that so many people are just locked into this notion that the SF offense is static and that Samuel's role can't grow. Guys like Tyreek and DJ Moore offer a compelling best-case scenario of how dynamic weapons can gradually see their usage increase. If that happens in SF with Deebo, you have a likely top 15 FF WR.

I see people citing all the fear factors without acknowledging the growth potential. It's the same with the Aiyuk stuff. All these people are mentioning Aiyuk as a bogeyman while neglecting to point out that he's just filling the spot Sanders vacated when he left for NO. I'm higher on Aiyuk than most people, but the presence of another good WR on the roster doesn't relegate Deebo to irrelevance, and if we're handicapping that battle we probably have to favor the guy who has already thrived.

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29 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

2QB 3WR 3RB 2TE 1Flex .5ppr 10 team league

 

I traded: Dak, Corey Davis (sorry), 1.09

I got: Kyler and Minshew

 

Wow. Insanely in favor of Kyler and Minshew imo, in that format. 

The 1.09, even in 2QB, seems like a light price to pay to upgrade (imo) to Kyler and still pick up another young starting QB. I'm not super high on Minshew but he has value in this format. 

Maybe I'm wrong and only being 10 teams means the QB's aren't valued as highly as I think. 

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51 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

2QB 3WR 3RB 2TE 1Flex .5ppr 10 team league

 

I traded: Dak, Corey Davis (sorry), 1.09

I got: Kyler and Minshew

That's a risky move.  Hopefully Murray improves,  but certainly no guarantee he produces what you already get from Dak. Minshew could get replaced in draft next year. 

I d lean towards Dak side . I think he could go off this year with adding Lamb to an already potent offense.  

Fair argument for both sides.  

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3 minutes ago, Jail said:

That's a risky move.  Hopefully Murray improves,  but certainly no guarantee he produces what you already get from Dak. Minshew could get replaced in draft next year. 

I d lean towards Dak side . I think he could go off this year with adding Lamb to an already potent offense.  

Fair argument for both sides.  

Looked at Murray numbers.  Wow,  I didn't realize his numbers were that strong.  More like a coin flip for me now 

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1 hour ago, robb said:

27 player, 1/2 point League:

Team A: traded 1.03 2020 pick

Team B: received Austin Ekeler

Coin flip.  Would prefer Ekeler in PPR but since it's .5ppr, I'd be inclined to take Dobbins at 1.03.

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13 hours ago, Deuceman said:

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Devin Singletary, Terry McLaurin and Mark Andrews

Team B got: Nick Chubb and 3.5

I will go with Team A, I like what they did here...Chubb is legit but that is a nice haul...Singletary is a solid RB with upside, McLaurin looks like he's gonna be a long-term top 20 WR and that could go up considerably depending on whether Haskins figures it out or they solve their QB situation another way and Andrews is poised for a nice run as a top 5 TE...all three of these players are born in September and they will be 23, 25 and 24...that is a real nice injection of good, young talent into a roster at three different positions...

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12 team PPR dynasty. Made 3 back to back to back trades for my team that finished dead last in 2019. 

1st trade:

Got: Diontae Johnson and 3.7 rookie pick FOR Vaughn (my 2.1 rookie selection) 

2nd trade:

Got: Waller and 3.6 FOR Campbell and 3.1 

3rd trade:

Got: Ron Jones and 3.12 FOR JJAW and 3.6 

 

So all together moved Vaughn, Campbell, JJAW and 3.1 for Diontae Johnson, Waller, 3.7, 3.12 

Thoughts? 

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Couple draft day moves

12 team TE prem ppr with IDPs

received an offer of 7 total picks, 1.03, and 2.09, some 3's, 4's and a 5 , for Hopkins

Was going to decline, but the 1st 2 picks were CEH and Ceedee, with Taylor somehow still there I took the offer

overall net ended up being; JT, B. Edwards, Hamler, V. Jefferson, Herbert, Chase Young

Traded one of the 4ths for Dede when it was otc

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15 minutes ago, Rockchild said:

14 Team PPR

Melvin Gordon & 2021 3rd

for

Robert Woods & 2021 4th

All depends on team make-up...if I need a RB I like the Gordon side and if I need a WR I like the Woods side...while I like Woods better then Gordon the fact it is a 14 team league makes me guess it is much tougher to acquire a good RB then a good WR due to supply and demand.

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

12 team PPR dynasty 

Team A gets: Diontae Johnson and 3.7 rookie pick

Team B gets: Vaughn 

 

To me, this is pretty even...  it looks like a benefit to both team.  I like the potential of WRs, so I am leaning toward the Johnson side

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10 minutes ago, Boston said:

All depends on team make-up...if I need a RB I like the Gordon side and if I need a WR I like the Woods side...while I like Woods better then Gordon the fact it is a 14 team league makes me guess it is much tougher to acquire a good RB then a good WR due to supply and demand.

I agree with Boston... depends on the team rosters...  very fair trade.

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18 hours ago, robb said:

27 player, 1/2 point League:

Team A: traded 1.03 2020 pick

Team B: received Austin Ekeler

I think I take 1.3.  It is .5 PPR and EK will regress a ton without Rivers there.  Tyrod doesn't use his RB out of the backfield as well and EK had almost 1k yards last year.  I think his contract doesn't age well and I'd rather have the high end lottery ticket.

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2 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

12 team PPR dynasty. Made 3 back to back to back trades for my team that finished dead last in 2019. 

1st trade:

Got: Diontae Johnson and 3.7 rookie pick FOR Vaughn (my 2.1 rookie selection) 

2nd trade:

Got: Waller and 3.6 FOR Campbell and 3.1 

3rd trade:

Got: Ron Jones and 3.12 FOR JJAW and 3.6 

 

So all together moved Vaughn, Campbell, JJAW and 3.1 for Diontae Johnson, Waller, 3.7, 3.12 

Thoughts? 

1st one is personal preference. *If* Vaughn gets the main role there he will crush that trade, IMO, but I'm not big on DJ. Anyway if you are, I think it seems like good market value for him, so good trade to get your guy.

2nd one is my favorite, good price to buy Waller IMO. Some big names have fell to 3.1, though, so that might be a thing

3rd is a gun to my head situation. I'd rather have the 2nd year WR that played his rookie year hurt and the earlier pick. But Jones might do something, too. 

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4 hours ago, Wigglytuff's Gruff said:

Leonard Fournette

for

Mark Andrews

Standard 14 team Dynasty.

In 2 years this will be a slamdunk. Fair today, though. Hard to give up RB scoring but taking on Andrews for the rest of his career seems like a great idea.

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3 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

12 team PPR dynasty. Made 3 back to back to back trades for my team that finished dead last in 2019. 

1st trade:

Got: Diontae Johnson and 3.7 rookie pick FOR Vaughn (my 2.1 rookie selection) 

2nd trade:

Got: Waller and 3.6 FOR Campbell and 3.1 

3rd trade:

Got: Ron Jones and 3.12 FOR JJAW and 3.6 

 

So all together moved Vaughn, Campbell, JJAW and 3.1 for Diontae Johnson, Waller, 3.7, 3.12 

Thoughts? 

1-even deal...Johnson and Vaughn are players that some people love and others not so much...how you feel about them and whether you need a RB or a WR is the deciding factor...I am higher on Johnson so would do that.

2-Definitely Waller...not too close...the guy had monster numbers last year and even if he regresses he should still be a quality starter...also, what are you really getting here in return...you might be able to get the same player at 3.6 that you do at 3.1 and while Campbell is certainly intriguing I really don't see a great path to being a starting-level fantasy WR...not a big fan of the asset management here

3-not a big Jones fan but would take him here...you are not giving up much for a RB that does have a path for solid production on his own and especially if Vaughn is not legit or gets hurt...would much rather have the RB depth then roll the dice on a WR that literally showed nothing last year.

Edited by Boston
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4 hours ago, Rockchild said:

14 Team PPR

Melvin Gordon & 2021 3rd

for

Robert Woods & 2021 4th

Gordon for me.  I'm a Woods fan but I see a nice RB1 two year window for MG, which is much more valuable than what Woods can do for you.

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43 minutes ago, Vandelay said:

I see a nice RB1 two year window for MG

I will be shocked if Gordon is a RB1 in either of the next two seasons in Denver.

That said, I agree with the general consensus that which side to favor depends on roster need.

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16 team PPR, IDP, dynasty with 50 man rosters.

I got: JuJu

I gave: pick 2.14 (pick 30) + Ryan Fitzpatrick 

I had offered Mike Willams + 2.14 and this was the counter. Instant accept for me. Have Kyler Murray and Big Ben at QB.

 

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18 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Different league than the one above. 16 team PPR, IDP dynasty,TE premium,  43 man rosters

I get: Hayden Hurst

I give: John Brown and  2021 3rd

In a TE premium league this just doesn't make sense

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2 hours ago, Cobbler1 said:

Give: Guice, 2.02, 2.03

Get: Marlon Mack, Christian Kirk, 1.12

 

14 team ppr.

I'm probably in the minority here but I go Guice.  2.02 and 2.03, you could still get your 12th ranked guy pretty easily.  1.12 = 2.02 because there's a few WR's clumped there that go in literally any order depending on the league.  Don't particularly like Kirk, don't hate him either.  Probably a decently steady producer but not special.  Guice has a chance to be special if he can be healthy, and I get 2 shots on whatever WR slips in the draft.  

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10 hours ago, JoeSteeler said:

16 team PPR, IDP, dynasty with 50 man rosters.

I got: JuJu

I gave: pick 2.14 (pick 30) + Ryan Fitzpatrick 

I had offered Mike Willams + 2.14 and this was the counter. Instant accept for me. Have Kyler Murray and Big Ben at QB.

 

That's garbage and if I were a league mate I'd be pretty upset about it.

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2 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

In the 10 year history of the league the Commish has overturned a few trades...worried for this one.

 

It's not your fault, you accepted a trade that was offered to you. It's the other guy that I'd "encourage to get better" at the hobby.

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