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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

I"d be willing to bet your top 6 was not your top 6 after the draft happened.

You maybe right...definitely a chance that happens or at least the order changes which really doesn’t have an effect...yet, I am more then comfortable making this move as the cost is not prohibitive and I am betting on the fact this type of move may cost more later...bottom line for me is I move up in the draft and still have more control over who I pick and if I have a definite top 6 now I am very willing to take the risk for this cost...very worst case in this is I make another deal and break even with happened in this deal.

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No, they won't accept

Barkley on this one, it isn't that close

You mean it went down in a league you used to be in??  I’d go ful Vontae Davis on that league asap 

2 minutes ago, Boston said:

You maybe right...definitely a chance that happens or at least the order changes which really doesn’t have an effect...yet, I am more then comfortable making this move as the cost is not prohibitive and I am betting on the fact this type of move may cost more later...bottom line for me is I move up in the draft and still have more control over who I pick and if I have a definite top 6 now I am very willing to take the risk for this cost...very worst case in this is I make another deal and break even with happened in this deal.

I for sure want to add I was not critical of the move, I don't think I said it was a bad trade. In fact I have a league where I have pick 6 and I would NOT take 2.6 to move back to 1.8 right now.  I absolutely understand that depending on were tier breaks are it could be considerably harder to move up to 6 from 8 once everything shakes out.

I just was debating/arguing that the current top 6 will be the same.

 

 

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

 

I'd say the same thing I just said to Boston. I'd be willling to bet your top 6 now won't be your top 6 post draft and if you look back at past years probably never was either.

I bet none of you had CEH in your top 6 this time last year at this time as an example. And even if you did not like CEH he knocked Lamb or Juedy back to 6-7 in literally every single draft I was in so if you had one of those in your top 5 you never needed to go that high to get them.

I don't mean any offense to anyone when I say this but I think some of you think you know more then you do right now. That applies to me as well. A few top tier players will hold but anyone who thinks some players you currently view as top 6 will all hold I think are in for a rude awakening.

And it's not hype that changes values. It's real tangible stuff like draft pedigree and opportunity to say nothing of workouts we've not even seen yet.

I don't have a top 6 and am not tied to anybody in particular so I wouldn't be rushing to move up 2 spots regardless.  However, I do understand the move for someone that is confident in their top 6 due to the minor assets they had to give up to do it.  

 

I also believe there is a long time between now and draft day and things will change.

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6 hours ago, Boston said:

I respectfully disagree...if I have a top 6 I want it locked in ASAP...I find that as the draft gets closer prying away a top draft pick usually gets harder and the cost gets steeper.

This is exactly how I feel as well. I'm willing to move up seemingly arbitrary notches in the 1st round *while* the opportunity exists. If my strategy is to try and move up. Once somebody else buys into a spot, it will be harder to pry away. Once the consensus tier breaks form, those notches become harder to bridge. If I can do it today I will. Right now it looks like a top 6 to me and would love to bump from say 1.09 or 1.08. Unless I think the crop is going to be terrible there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason (to me) to wait.

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Whether I have it as a top 6 or not I certainly would agree it is likely to change between now and draft day. But I know I would rather hold 1.06 than 1.08. I might even flip the 1.06 later for something better than what I paid to get there. I also might have better luck moving from 1.06 to 1.02 in a subsequent trade. But if my top 6 shuffles between now and draft day, I'd rather err on the side of *already being in position* to take advantage of such a potential shift than to worry about the fallout of the improved pick somehow becoming dilluted and not worth the February gamble. 

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2 hours ago, donnie baseball said:

12 team superflex dynasty 

Lamar Jackson 

for

Hurts, 1.07, 2.05, 3.07

I don't like Lamar that much as a long term dynasty QB1.

This is insanely low for him in a SF league...

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3 hours ago, donnie baseball said:

12 team superflex dynasty 

Lamar Jackson 

for

Hurts, 1.07, 2.05, 3.07

I've got this as pretty even. Calculators agree and even give the edge to the picks side. In my SF teams there is a good chance I would move Jackson for this if I believed in Hurts enough. If the Eagles moved Wentz tomorrow then Hurts value will climb more. But admittedly that outcome is already baked into this deal. I don't think this is nearly the bad deal people are saying. 

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3 hours ago, donnie baseball said:

12 team superflex dynasty 

Lamar Jackson 

for

Hurts, 1.07, 2.05, 3.07

This all depends on if Hurts gets the keys to the Philly job and keeps it. It's a risk but if he does I think it will prove to be a steal for the side getting Hurts. Would I take that risk in SF? I don't know.

Lamar started 6 full games his rookie season excluding week 17. His high point fantasy  game was less then Jalen averaged in his full 3 starts his rookie season. Jalen's low game in those 3 games was more then Lamar averaged in his 6 full starts. Don't sleep on the upside of Hurts IF he's the starting QB.

 

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4 hours ago, jadensdad said:

12 team Superflex/TE premium 

Team a - jacobs

team b - 1.08 and fuller 

I see this as pretty even. I am higher on Fuller than some, granted. But the 1.08 could be a nice return and Fuller is a 2nd/3rd tier WR. I'm honestly not that high on Jacobs. The Raiders don't seem to want to throw to him much, and they have a few RBs they like to mix in. 

If I had depth at RB and needed a WR I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger to move Jacobs for that package. 

From the other side if I were dealing Fuller & the 1.08 for Jacobs, I'd feel like I was getting a semi-feature back for a pick & a risky WR. 

Fair deal. I could see some balking at it either way, which is why I see it as pretty even. 

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7 hours ago, donnie baseball said:

12 team superflex dynasty 

Lamar Jackson 

for

Hurts, 1.07, 2.05, 3.07

I'm probably in the minority here, but I like this deal for the Hurts/Picks side. Lamar worries me a bit. At the worst I think it's fair, but value leans to LJax. In general, whenever you have a package deal with multiple players/picks for 1 dude, the side getting the 1 dude wins. 

That said, the Eagles are one snake bitten franchise, so I could also see not dealing LJax for that package. 

Mostly my reasons for taking or rejecting this deal have to do with gut feelings, i'll completely admit that. At face value it is probably slightly low for LJax. But if I had LJax and some holes I'd definitely consider it. I would like it a lot more with an extra 1st or 2 extra 2nds. 

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10 hours ago, donnie baseball said:

12 team superflex dynasty 

Lamar Jackson 

for

Hurts, 1.07, 2.05, 3.07

As a Lamar owner in dynasty, I can see this deal IF Hurts is the starter. Otherwise, no way in hell. So too early to make this trade unless you have Dak etc as your other QB.

 

Also, I can't seem to give Lamar away

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16 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

Did the team that gave the 1.07 really need a QB bad as their only missing piece? I think I would have kept the pick & gone Trevor if so

Do they need a quarterback? Yes. Is it going to put them over the top? No

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4 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

As a Lamar owner in dynasty, I can see this deal IF Hurts is the starter. Otherwise, no way in hell. So too early to make this trade unless you have Dak etc as your other QB.

 

Also, I can't seem to give Lamar away

I see it as a foregone conclusion that Wentz is done in Philly one way or the other. 

Will Hurts stay the starter is the bigger concern foe me. If that OL doesn’t improve it might be short lived, & I hope he has good health insurance. 

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Murray side. Seems like a bargain. 

I suppose it depends on the league QB scoring.  Looking at the draft, there will be a very good player at 1.07.  You have Harris, Chase, Williams, Etienne, Waddle, Bateman, and Smith.  I could see a team wanting one of those players in a league that has crappy scoring for a QB (like 4 pts per TD).

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Murray side. Seems like a bargain. 

I agree.  I young, proven top QB not far from where you'd have to draft Lawrence to hope to get similar production.

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31 minutes ago, Matt's Eagles said:

14 Team PPR

Team A got Miles Sanders

Team B got Chris Godwin

Wow. Fairly even, depending on need. Give me Sanders. Should have been able to make off with a late second, too, for that deal.

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12 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

1.07 for Kyler Murray

12 team ppr, 1 QB

Absolutely Murray, without hesitation...not a lot to give up for what you are getting...an elite QB that will be 24 years old in August that will not only put up big time points for you but will also allow you to focus your resources on other positions, love the stability of this deal...it's an absolute steal!

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3 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I suppose it depends on the league QB scoring.  Looking at the draft, there will be a very good player at 1.07.  You have Harris, Chase, Williams, Etienne, Waddle, Bateman, and Smith.  I could see a team wanting one of those players in a league that has crappy scoring for a QB (like 4 pts per TD).

That increases Murray's value quite a bit because of all the rushing TD's.  That really boosts guys like Murray/Allen/Lamar.

 

I would rather have a guy I know puts up good fantasy production than a hope on a rookie.  

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16 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

1.07 for Kyler Murray

12 team ppr, 1 QB

About right IMO in 1 QB. I definitely wouldn’t give a top 6 pick for him at this time. Maybe not even 7 if hot for Pitts.

Murray and Jackson are both guys I want no part of long term, I have serious questions about their abilities as passers (admittedly less so for Murray but still a worry.) They seem to me to be the next guys in a long list of running qb’s that shined brightly in fantasy for their running and then burned out when they couldn’t develop as passers.

But I would have been wrong on Josh Allen taking the step forward he did this year too. And sometimes these guys can burn bright enough to be real difference makers for a few years and then you can find someone else to replace them.

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12 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I hopped off the Kyler Murray train last season. He's an exciting young player but with his size and style He won't last long. 

Size sure, style I'm not sure I agree.  The dude slides almost every time he runs.  Somehow in 2 years he has not yet taken a single solid hit it seems like.

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6 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Size sure, style I'm not sure I agree.  The dude slides almost every time he runs.  Somehow in 2 years he has not yet taken a single solid hit it seems like.

He was hurt the last third-ish of the season.(After getting hit week 11 versus Miami)

More concerning is how teams seemed to figure out how to contain him in the pocket.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I just can’t get past how he looks like a small child out there. 

When I had him in that Superflex last year the first thing that struck me was that he looked like a small boy out there. It was really disconcerting to watch, in a way.

But he's better in the pocket than the people above are giving him credit for, though. They see mobile and think he can't really hang in the pocket and make plays there, but he can. He's only getting better, IMO. I probably wouldn't trade the 1.07 for him, but it depends on your team's makeup, I think. He was a top five QB this year, and people have been noticing that there's a real QB point-scoring drop-off after the first eight guys, so if you don't have one...

What I'm trying to say is I'd be fine with the deal, provided I had a top twenty back up for when he inevitably gets hurt next year for the two or so games a year he seems prone to missing in his pro career thus far.

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15 minutes ago, rockaction said:

When I had him in that Superflex last year the first thing that struck me was that he looked like a small boy out there. It was really disconcerting to watch, in a way.

But he's better in the pocket than the people above are giving him credit for, though. They see mobile and think he can't really hang in the pocket and make plays there, but he can. He's only getting better, IMO. I probably wouldn't trade the 1.07 for him, but it depends on your team's makeup, I think. He was a top five QB this year, and people have been noticing that there's a real QB point-scoring drop-off after the first eight guys, so if you don't have one...

What I'm trying to say is I'd be fine with the deal, provided I had a top twenty back up for when he inevitably gets hurt next year for the two or so games a year he seems prone to missing in his pro career thus far.

Oh, I agree that he’s a very good QB, with room to grow (no pun intended) but like you I get a bit taken aback when I see him in the huddle. When you see a pass rush you almost get afraid for him as if he was a boy. He is very good at avoiding the rush and knowing when to slide. I’m rooting for him just because he’s so different - even Brees, Baker and Jackson never seemed that small out there.

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He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though? And can't all of the running QBs get hurt on just one play, making them all unstable bets as cornerstones? I mean, I take your point about Murray being exceptionally small. No wonder he never got measured again after his initial combine measurement.

That said, it seems like one is going to have to accept the risk of injury to have a guy in the top eight. Look at Dak last year. He was on pace to be QB1 and he got gruesomely hurt scrambling. Seems like in leagues with one QB and 4 pt. passing TDs, their value is really tops when they're non-injured running QBs, unless they throw every down like Patrick and Dak did last year.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though? And can't all of the running QBs get hurt on just one play, making them all unstable bets as cornerstones? I mean, I take your point about Murray being exceptionally small. No wonder he never got measured again after his initial combine measurement.

That said, it seems like one is going to have to accept the risk of injury to have a guy in the top eight. Look at Dak last year. He was on pace to be QB1 and he got gruesomely hurt scrambling. Seems like in leagues with one QB and 4 pt. passing TDs, their value is really tops when they're non-injured running QBs, unless they throw every down like Patrick and Dak did last year.

I think people are conflating running QBs with QBs that can run.

Murray is more the former (but not as much as say Jackson) and Dak is the latter. 

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

I think people are conflating running QBs with QBs that can run.

Murray is more the former (but not as much as say Jackson) and Dak is the latter. 

I get what you're saying and that's why I said Patrick or Dak. I consider Dak a passing QB who can and wasn't afraid to run. Murray is much less a running QB than Jackson. Murray's more on a par with Allen, who runs a lot, too. I mean Allen's and Buffalo's game this year was predicated on his rushing prowess. I'd consider both of them skirting the line between running QBs and QBs that can run.

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27 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I get what you're saying and that's why I said Patrick or Dak. I consider Dak a passing QB who can and wasn't afraid to run. Murray is much less a running QB than Jackson. Murray's more on a par with Allen, who runs a lot, too. I mean Allen's and Buffalo's game this year was predicated on his rushing prowess. I'd consider both of them skirting the line between running QBs and QBs that can run.

Continuing on the idea of who I would consider in the category of "Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though?"...

Constant is a tricky word but there are several guys I'd consider in this category and thus select before Murray: Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Watson, Prescott, the incoming Lawrence, and even Rodgers. Add in Mahomes and that's already getting to be a pretty long list.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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26 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Continuing on the idea of who I would consider in the category of "Is any non-running quarterback a constant top-flight fantasy QB besides Mahomes, though?"...

Constant is a tricky word but there are several guys I'd consider in this category and thus select before Murray: Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Watson, Prescott, the incoming Lawrence, and even Rodgers. Add in Mahomes and that's already getting to be a pretty long list.

I should have said "consistent" instead of "constant," but I think you got my meaning. "Constant" is the wrong word there. I think I briefly thought of "all other things held constant..." for a moment to make a different point, but that's not what I was trying to say. I'm talking consistency here.

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

You do realize he was hurt, correct? The injury directly correlated with his drop off in rushing stats in the latter part of the season. And if you watched him play you could clearly tell he was not close to 100%. Obviously the rushing trajectory he was on through the first half of the season was not sustainable. Pretty sure he would’ve been right there with Lamar’s 2019 season if so. And speaking of Lamar, there’s a wide gap between him and Kyler as passers, too. 

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26 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

You do realize he was hurt, correct? The injury directly correlated with his drop off in rushing stats in the latter part of the season. And if you watched him play you could clearly tell he was not close to 100%. Obviously the rushing trajectory he was on through the first half of the season was not sustainable. Pretty sure he would’ve been right there with Lamar’s 2019 season if so. And speaking of Lamar, there’s a wide gap between him and Kyler as passers, too. 

Yes. And that was part of the point.

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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes. And that was part of the point.

I was wondering while reading that exactly how perfect on the tee that was for you.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes. And that was part of the point.

I think it’s premature and unfair to say that that sort of thing is going to be the norm after one season with him. Does he take some stupid and unnecessary sacks sometimes? For sure. To me, that’s the thing he needs to work on most. But when he scrambles he very rarely even absorbs contact because he’s so savvy with either getting out of bounds or sliding. Like a much faster Russell Wilson. 

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2 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

He still put up 6.5 points per game on the ground after the Miami game (discounting week 17 where he only played a few snaps), which is still a significant number.

 

1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He only had three 300+ yard passing games all season and had three rushing TDs after the Miami game.

If he's going to have Eli Manning passing stats then he needs to make up the difference with rushing numbers to be elite - which he didn't as the season wore on.

He's an exciting player, don't get me wrong. But he's not the cornerstone QB I'm looking for for my dynasty teams. 

It's also worth noting that Kyler was a 23 year old in his second season this year when he put up 4000 yards and 26 TDs passing in 15 games.  Dak in his second year put up 3200 yards and 22 TDs in 16 games.  Josh Allen 3000 yards with 20 TDs in his 2nd year.

Part of the draw with Kyler was the very very very rare prospect where he was a running QB that still would have been a 1st round NFL pick even if he couldn't run.  I don't think we need to assume Kyler has reached his peak as a passer in year 2 when pretty much all of the other top QBs outside of Mahomes still had a ton of growing to do as a passer after their first 2 years.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

I was wondering while reading that exactly how perfect on the tee that was for you.

So he suffers one injury in his second year and we suddenly have a precedent? Poor Joe Burrow. 

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