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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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No, they won't accept

It's a bit much to say the trade should be overturned. It's just a bunch of junk for a bunch of junk.

You mean it went down in a league you used to be in??  I’d go ful Vontae Davis on that league asap 

2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

maybe, but that shouldn't distract from the rest of the post.

Okay. I don't think Lawrence gets selected late first even in 1 QB leagues. Zealots doesn't follow the rules when it comes to QBs.

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20 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I would have been happy with Bateman at 1.09.  Some like him more than Waddle and Smith.  Besides, I think the likelihood of those 8 being taken exactly as that are slim.  In a one QB league Lawrence may fall to the end of the first round.

Agree about Lawrence...if you think he has the potential to put up Mahomes/Josh Allen numbers (and than he does) that is one of those picks that you will be happy you made because you will have your QB position locked up for well over a decade. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Okay. I don't think Lawrence gets selected late first even in 1 QB leagues. Zealots doesn't follow the rules when it comes to QBs.

Zealots doesn't, but in our particular Zealots he might. We drafted Tua last year at 1.11 for a needy team, Burrow at 1.12. Same team that drafted Tua won the league and has Brady, Tua, and Derek Carr. He might very well opt for drafting Lawrence at 1.12, though I probably wouldn't.

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19 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Zealots doesn't, but in our particular Zealots he might. We drafted Tua last year at 1.11 for a needy team, Burrow at 1.12. Same team that drafted Tua won the league and has Brady, Tua, and Derek Carr. He might very well opt for drafting Lawrence at 1.12, though I probably wouldn't.

I meant that it's likelier that he goes in the upper 2/3 of the first than lower. Earlier rather than later. I wasn't very clear with my wording.

The only caveat is 4 versus 6 points per passing TDs. In the former, he could go later.

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13 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I meant that it's likelier that he goes in the upper 2/3 of the first than lower. Earlier rather than later. I wasn't very clear with my wording.

The only caveat is 4 versus 6 points per passing TDs. In the former, he could go later.

Oh, okay. Gotcha. I thought you meant later than the first. That's a big difference in understanding.

Anyway, I'm not sure when he'll go in our league. We're six points passing, but people seem pretty set at QB. And the people that need backups have Mahomes, Watson, and Murray. Hard to imagine they'll spend a first on him. Just league-specific stuff.

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12 team SF PPR

I have Swift Kamara and CEH as my top 3 RB's I remain a little worried of what CEH will be so I made an offer and got this deal done  

Gave CEH and 4.03 rookie pick this year

Got Josh Jacobs

They are valued about the same I just like Jacobs more personally.

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10 minutes ago, Misterblack said:

12-Team Dynasty SuperFlex

Team A: Ryan Tannehill

Team B: Rookie picks 2.06 & 3.06

In a 12 team Super-flex that is a steal for Tannehill...the team getting the picks needs to be getting more than that.

Edited by Boston
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2 hours ago, Spike said:

Zealots Field trade. 

Traded 1.09 and 3.09

Received 1.08 

My thought is I see a clear top 8:

RB-Harris, Etienne and Williams

WR-Chase, Waddle and Smith

QB-Lawrence

TE-Pitts

I did not want to chance sitting at 1.09 and have them all go 1-8. 

You paid a small tax to guarantee you would get your guy. Nothing wrong with that. Did you consider waiting for the NFL draft to see if your top 8 changed? 

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53 minutes ago, frae said:

12 team SF PPR

I have Swift Kamara and CEH as my top 3 RB's I remain a little worried of what CEH will be so I made an offer

Gave CEH and 4.03 rookie pick this year

Got Josh Jacobs

They are valued about the same I just like Jacobs more personally.

I have Jacobs and am trying to move him and I don't think I would have made this deal.  CEH has such a wide range of outcomes and you basically know what Jacobs gets you.  I was also a big believer in CEH as he was the guy I was targeting even before the draft last  year.  His usage was more worrisome than his actual play.  All this to say I like the Jacobs side more.

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58 minutes ago, frae said:

12 team SF PPR

I have Swift Kamara and CEH as my top 3 RB's I remain a little worried of what CEH will be so I made an offer

Gave CEH and 4.03 rookie pick this year

Got Josh Jacobs

They are valued about the same I just like Jacobs more personally.

Love the Jacobs side here. 

21 minutes ago, Misterblack said:

12-Team Dynasty SuperFlex

Team A: Ryan Tannehill

Team B: Rookie picks 2.06 & 3.06

Too cheap for Tannehill. I got 3.01 and a future 2nd for Jameis Winston like a week ago. And his future is very questionable, Tannehill's isn't (at least immediately). 

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1 hour ago, frae said:

12 team SF PPR

I have Swift Kamara and CEH as my top 3 RB's I remain a little worried of what CEH will be so I made an offer

Gave CEH and 4.03 rookie pick this year

Got Josh Jacobs

They are valued about the same I just like Jacobs more personally.

I actually traded Jacobs last year for pick 1.1 to take CEH. I might have regret on not taking another player instead of CEH at 1.1 but I don't have any regrets on turning Jacobs into CEH so for me I like the side getting CEH who I expect to take a sizeable leap next season.

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15 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I actually traded Jacobs last year for pick 1.1 to take CEH. I might have regret on not taking another player instead of CEH at 1.1 but I don't have any regrets on turning Jacobs into CEH so for me I like the side getting CEH who I expect to take a sizeable leap next season.

I think you can be happy with either side. CEH probably has the higher upside if they actually maximize his talent in the passing game and he gets goal line carries.  Jacobs is going to be near the top in touches again next year for sure and will get goal line work. Until there is another qb there carr just won’t pass to him or maybe it’s the OC. Either way as it stands his passing game use is capped.  
 

im happy with Jacobs but CEH could well take a big step. 

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Anybody claiming that CEH didn't get usage in the passing game wasn't looking at actual passing attempts to running backs last year.

They had the seventh most attempts to RBs last year, with 108 passes to the RBs. Edwards-Helaire isn't going to take off magically because they start dumping down to him. Mahomes doesn't do that. They already were targeting him a lot. I wouldn't expect his usage to increase in this way. (At least too much.)

Here's the RB usage breakdown for everyone interested. Chiefs are middle third, towards the bottom of that.

https://twitter.com/TomKislingbury/status/1364509864563781632/photo/1

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12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Anybody claiming that CEH didn't get usage in the passing game wasn't looking at actual passing attempts to running backs last year.

CEH got more passing game usage per game then any rookie RB ever under Reid, Hunt's 63 being the most in a season.  So I'm not arguing he did not get usage but I think the targets and efficiency will improve.

Westbrook took until year 3 for him to take a sizeable jump in the passing game with Reid. McCoy did it in year two. Reid never makes his rookies three down backs, even Hunt who led the league in rushing as a rookie and got 63 targets only 3 of those came on third down, West was the main third down back that year. Also Hunts 63 targets came with dump down Alex, his target share per game dropped the next year with Mahomes.  CEH was actually pulled often last year on most third down and obvious passing downs. If that continues his role won't grow but I don't think it will, he'll need to keep improving in pass protection but I don't think they drafted him to be a two down or not used in obvious passing downs RB which is exactly what he was last year, if so that was a dumb move by some usually smart people I still am giving benefit of doubt.

We did see some impressive rookies this year but I still think lack of off-season did not give Chiefs ample time to figure out how to utilize CEH in the passing game.  For instance he looked unguardable at LSU on the angle route, which I thought was his best route. I do not recall CEH getting targets on this route last year.

Part of why I took CEH at 1.1 goes back to what I said earlier. Veach, Reid, these are smart guys. I still trust in them to have a big plan for CEH in the passing game otherwise taking him were they did looks shaky if not dumb.

I do think you are 100% spot on that Mahomes is never going to be a big check down guy. Also even when I was taking CEH at 1.1 I did notice the total Chiefs PPR RB fantasy production the two years with Mahomes at QB was more good then great, was in the 25-26 total PPG range as a team. But again based on what I saw from CEH as a receiver in the college he's more then a dump off guy but that is how he was used last year and most plays when I tried to follow Mahomes eye's I don't think he was ever looking his direction. I am anticipating more designed throws to CEH then dumpoffs, I could of course be wrong.

We'll see, players do improve often from year 1 to 2. CMC played like Danny Woodhead his rookie season and was just a little better in fantasy in ppg as CEH was last year but he got better and they did a better job figuring out how to use him.

 

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Yeah I'm still big on CEH, too, for the record. The upside in that offense is too great. When combined with a reasonable expectation of improvement by him, useage is the biggest question mark, but not in the passing game. I really liked what I saw from him this year on film, but I think people who drafted him were left underwhelmed and are now overcorrecting in their minds. With hindsight everyone would take Taylor and Akers, Dobbins is still close based again on the useage question. But CEH has got to be considered the better PPR play, so....

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49 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

12 team, 1 QB, .5 PPR

Team A Gives:

Miles Sanders

Team B Gives:

1.6, 2022 2nd (projected top half), Gabriel Davis

 

 

8 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC not involved

Team A gave Dobbins, 1.05

Team B gave Sanders, McLaurin, 2022 2nd

I'm not the biggest fan of Sanders but I think I take his side in both spots here.

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC not involved

Team A gave Dobbins, 1.05

Team B gave Sanders, McLaurin, 2022 2nd

I feel like Sanders vs Dobbins and 1.5 vs McLaurin are a matter of personal preference though for me I do prefer Sanders over Dobbins and McLaurin over 1.5 provided I got the roster spot for him right now. So when I'm getting a second as well that's easily the side for me.

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

I feel like Sanders vs Dobbins and 1.5 vs McLaurin are a matter of personal preference though for me I do prefer Sanders over Dobbins and McLaurin over 1.5 provided I got the roster spot for him right now. So when I'm getting a second as well that's easily the side for me.

Yeah I think so, too. It's super close to me and comes down to preference. Dobbins plus the 1.05 gets you two RBs and if you happen to have strong WR depth to afford moving McLaurin, and you wanted to gain a RB, I can see it for sure. I think the 2nd is worth the premium to make that happen. But I tend to agree the 2nd is basically free.

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11 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Love the Jacobs side here. 

Too cheap for Tannehill. I got 3.01 and a future 2nd for Jameis Winston like a week ago. And his future is very questionable, Tannehill's isn't (at least immediately). 

Yeah but that was from me and I'm crazy. I agree about the Tanny side of this though.

FFPC SF - the Winston one

I gave Brady, 3.12
I got Taysom Hill

So now I have the Saints QBs. It is a risk but I like the odds that they don't try to land a big name in FA or move up in the draft. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Brady was my 3rd QB. But this sums up as Brady, 2022 2nd, 3.01, 3.12 for the hedge that I will get the Saints QB out of this. There is an upside world where Hill gets the job and some other team buys Winston in FA, but that wasn't my thinking. For the record I think a future 2nd and 3.01 is a really nice get. 

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32 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC 

I gave H Henry
I got Ertz, 2.07

At first I like the Henry side. Think Ertz is donezo and a roster clogger. 2.07 is nothing to sneeze at so I guess this boils down to if you hit or miss on that pick. I don’t draft well so I would take the side getting Hunter.
after thinking about it, though, Henry isn’t special either. Not a difference maker. He’s never gonna elevate into what he’s occasionally shown us in flashes. If you are confident in your drafting ability I’d say take a shot with the 2.07. Also gives you some flexibility.

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5 minutes ago, BigAl21 said:

At first I like the Henry side. Think Ertz is donezo and a roster clogger. 2.07 is nothing to sneeze at so I guess this boils down to if you hit or miss on that pick. I don’t draft well so I would take the side getting Hunter.
after thinking about it, though, Henry isn’t special either. Not a difference maker. He’s never gonna elevate into what he’s occasionally shown us in flashes. If you are confident in your drafting ability I’d say take a shot with the 2.07. Also gives you some flexibility.

I have Waller and that is a factor. I don't hate Henry but I agree his isn't a difference maker. I have strength and depth elsewhere so Henry was never really going to be in my lineup (much). If he isn't a difference maker and he isn't in my lineup then what exactly is someone like that doing for you? I don't know that Ertz is done but he is practically free right now. If he goes to Indy or somewhere like that in FA, why not give it a ride? Yeah I consider my drafting to be my strongsuit, but I don't even think of that 2.07 as needing to hit per se. It is just another flexible piece of capital that I might use to move up (to a spot with a higher hit %). If I can acquire and aggregate capital, which I tend to do. The flexibility is definitely the key. Maybe I add a future 2nd to that 2.07 and get to like 2.01 or 1.12 and maybe I've got a gem there I'm targeting and maybe I get it and maybe it hits (I do this every year). Maybe not but I'm going to take what could be a free 2.07 if Ertz gives me *anything* more than what Henry wasn't giving me before. They're both nothing more than depth. I only need one of those. 

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13 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC 

I gave H Henry
I got Ertz, 2.07

Writing this after reading why you did it (i.e. having Waller)...and it makes me like the Henry side more...I am not a Hunter Henry fan, I think his name is far bigger then his output...that being said if you have him as a backup to Waller that is a very nice spot for him and puts you in a position where you don't have to worry about the TE position and if he changes teams (or with the new LA coaching if he stays) and goes to the next level he will be worth far more than what you got here...all that being said you have sound logic for why you did this deal so it's one that I wouldn't do but fully understand why you did.

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4 minutes ago, jadensdad said:

12 team ppr 

 

team a - 1.11 and jonnu smith

team B - Waller 

Waller, very easily for me...Waller is a weapon who can be a real fantasy difference-maker on a week-to-week basis, especially in today's TE landscape...this is not much to give up at all for an elite player.

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11 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

Yeah I think so, too. It's super close to me and comes down to preference. Dobbins plus the 1.05 gets you two RBs and if you happen to have strong WR depth to afford moving McLaurin, and you wanted to gain a RB, I can see it for sure. I think the 2nd is worth the premium to make that happen. But I tend to agree the 2nd is basically free.

Was this SF? If not I'm not very confident you can get a RB at 5 without reaching. Certainly possible someone pulls a Chase or Pitts but last year not a single one of my 6 leagues did someone take  Lamb or Jeudy over one of the big 5 RB's so you were shut out of viable RB market last year at 6 in what was a deeper RB draft. I think it's safe to say we currently have a big 3 RB's, my guess right now is if it ends up being a big 3 RB's there won't be a RB at 5 to take without reaching, which does not devalue pick 5 unless you just absolutely positively had to have a RB with the pick.

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31 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Was this SF? If not I'm not very confident you can get a RB at 5 without reaching. Certainly possible someone pulls a Chase or Pitts but last year not a single one of my 6 leagues did someone take  Lamb or Jeudy over one of the big 5 RB's so you were shut out of viable RB market last year at 6 in what was a deeper RB draft. I think it's safe to say we currently have a big 3 RB's, my guess right now is if it ends up being a big 3 RB's there won't be a RB at 5 to take without reaching, which does not devalue pick 5 unless you just absolutely positively had to have a RB with the pick.

No not SF and yes of course there is no guarantee to get one of the top backs. Just saying that would be my thinking there *if* I wanted another RB. At worst it is a 1 for 1 and gives the potential option for another RB. Plus the 1.05 can be upgraded still. 

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13 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC 

I gave H Henry
I got Ertz, 2.07

I do have a strong preference for the Henry side, which you probably would have guessed based on previous convo. I think he's better then Hockenson, will likely have a better QB then Andrews and Goedert and that's the group I put him in and I would value all of them over 2.7/Ertz.

 

Ertz will be interesting. He looked done but he should not look as old as he did last year, makes no sense. He might very well have been just in such a mental funk over his contract situation it really impacted him, he might have a  nice rebound with a change of scenery but I'd still take Henry. I know you've been saying you've been nailing your seconds but I put to much value on Henry, but that's me.

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I do have a strong preference for the Henry side, which you probably would have guessed based on previous convo. I think he's better then Hockenson, will likely have a better QB then Andrews and Goedert and that's the group I put him in and I would value all of them over 2.7/Ertz.

 

Ertz will be interesting. He looked done but he should not look as old as he did last year, makes no sense. He might very well have been just in such a mental funk over his contract situation it really impacted him, he might have a  nice rebound with a change of scenery but I'd still take Henry. I know you've been saying you've been nailing your seconds but I put to much value on Henry, but that's me.

 

Yeah that's fair. My central idea here (for me) is that in the no more than maybe 3 or 4 *potential* spot starts for one of these guys, if Ertz gives me even comparable production as Henry would then this is a free 2nd. And I frankly think there is an even much greater chance that those spot starts are filled with someone else entirely that I will choose instead. Like a RB or WR.

I do like Henry and think he offers a valuable floor. I'd target him on other rosters. I don't think he will ever have more than a Kyle Rudolph type ceiling no matter where he goes. His floor is very solid, though, and by no means am I poo pooing that. 

If Ertz gives me nothing, I'm still profiting the entire 2nd *if* I make solid lineup decisions in those few starts. 

Now, if the argument is about Henry's market value, then I will concede I might have got more if I'd waited. But my overarching strategy this time of year is to cut (what I perceive to be) roster cloggers. But I'm not cutting players with value so I'm trying to move them for capital. If not I hold.

4 hours ago, Boston said:

Writing this after reading why you did it (i.e. having Waller)...and it makes me like the Henry side more...I am not a Hunter Henry fan, I think his name is far bigger then his output...that being said if you have him as a backup to Waller that is a very nice spot for him and puts you in a position where you don't have to worry about the TE position and if he changes teams (or with the new LA coaching if he stays) and goes to the next level he will be worth far more than what you got here...all that being said you have sound logic for why you did this deal so it's one that I wouldn't do but fully understand why you did.

I disagree on that. I find value TEs every single year and they are just as good in a backup role as a more expensive vet like Henry. I don't think he *exactly* qualifies as a roster clogger because you can get production out of him but this particular team of mine is very strong and I need to make room for other speculative upside plays. He just wasn't going to get in my lineup. I'd rather liquidate in those cases. In FFPC. I think people "worry" about TE in this format waaaay too much. You need a plan at TE, and it matters, but I really don't want to hold these types of players.

But those who think he is a difference maker could be right, and if they think so they should treat him as such. And I think that is what meno is doing. I would strongly defend that approach. Just because we disagree on player x doesn't change that ideal.

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36 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

12 team ppr te prem

Team A gets- Shenault, Reagor, Nkeal Harry, Irv smith jr, donald Parham

Team B gets- Tee Higgins, mims

Tee Higgins.  By a good bit.

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Yeah that's fair. My central idea here (for me) is that in the no more than maybe 3 or 4 *potential* spot starts for one of these guys, if Ertz gives me even comparable production as Henry would then this is a free 2nd. And I frankly think there is an even much greater chance that those spot starts are filled with someone else entirely that I will choose instead. Like a RB or WR.

I do like Henry and think he offers a valuable floor. I'd target him on other rosters. I don't think he will ever have more than a Kyle Rudolph type ceiling no matter where he goes. His floor is very solid, though, and by no means am I poo pooing that. 

If Ertz gives me nothing, I'm still profiting the entire 2nd *if* I make solid lineup decisions in those few starts. 

Now, if the argument is about Henry's market value, then I will concede I might have got more if I'd waited. But my overarching strategy this time of year is to cut (what I perceive to be) roster cloggers. But I'm not cutting players with value so I'm trying to move them for capital. If not I hold.

I disagree on that. I find value TEs every single year and they are just as good in a backup role as a more expensive vet like Henry. I don't think he *exactly* qualifies as a roster clogger because you can get production out of him but this particular team of mine is very strong and I need to make room for other speculative upside plays. He just wasn't going to get in my lineup. I'd rather liquidate in those cases. In FFPC. I think people "worry" about TE in this format waaaay too much. You need a plan at TE, and it matters, but I really don't want to hold these types of players.

But those who think he is a difference maker could be right, and if they think so they should treat him as such. And I think that is what meno is doing. I would strongly defend that approach. Just because we disagree on player x doesn't change that ideal.

Looks like we really disagree but my guess is I don't understand this format correctly.

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Just now, Boston said:

Looks like we really disagree but my guess is I don't understand this format correctly.

That's possible but like I've been saying, my takes are incredibly FFPC centric and I would likely go a different route in deeper leagues. But Meno is coming from an FFPC perspective as well and he is with you, so....

At the end of the day this all probably just boils down to how we feel about Henry.

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7 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

That's possible but like I've been saying, my takes are incredibly FFPC centric and I would likely go a different route in deeper leagues. But Meno is coming from an FFPC perspective as well and he is with you, so....

At the end of the day this all probably just boils down to how we feel about Henry.

Taking away the format...I think some of the biggest roster cloggers are back-up tight ends...that is why while I am not a big Henry fan I think he is an excellent #2 TE and gives you the ability to use your roster spots on other positions and if Waller goes down you are still up to bat...I am very much about roster construction and there are certain players I value very differently based on how they will fit into my roster...Henry as a #1, I'm not too psyched about...Henry as a #2 I really like a lot.

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4 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

..

At the end of the day this all probably just boils down to how we feel about Henry.

Yes and I don't see him as Kyle Rudolph, I see him as a top 5-6 TE, thus the difference in opinion, not over the format.

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6 minutes ago, Boston said:

Taking away the format...I think some of the biggest roster cloggers are back-up tight ends...that is why while I am not a big Henry fan I think he is an excellent #2 TE and gives you the ability to use your roster spots on other positions and if Waller goes down you are still up to bat...I am very much about roster construction and there are certain players I value very differently based on how they will fit into my roster...Henry as a #1, I'm not psyched about...Henry as a #2 I really like a lot.

Yeah man that's fair. As an example (it's not this league but another FFPC) I just bought Jonnu Smith for a 4th. In another I bought Higbee for a late current 3rd. I like those guys as a #2 just as much or more than Henry. Or at least within the same order of magnitude anyway. But if I can get them for a 3rd or a 4th and I can sell someone I perceive to be the same for a 2nd (and another TE that might have something left as well), then it's easy for me.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Yeah man that's fair. As an example (it's not this league but another FFPC) I just bought Jonnu Smith for a 4th. In another I bought Higbee for a late current 3rd. I like those guys as a #2 just as much or more than Henry. Or at least within the same order of magnitude anyway. But if I can get them for a 3rd or a 4th and I can sell someone I perceive to be the same for a 2nd (and another TE that might have something left as well), then it's easy for me.

 

 

Makes sense...funny, between you me and Meno you can see the difference in Henry's value...he really likes him as a #1, I see him as a quality #2 and you don't really like him.

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FFPC SuperFlex:

I gave Zeke, Parker, Higbee (speak of the devil)
I got Corey Davis, Ian Thomas, 1.09, 2.04, 3.01, 3.05

Just happened after the TE discussion but in this one I'm really not a Thomas fan but he is just a throw in for both of us. He probably won't make my roster. I am basically clearing two roster spots and liquidating Zeke here. I like Davis over Parker as well. 

 

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  • Gottabesweet changed the title to ****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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