I feel like Sanders vs Dobbins and 1.5 vs McLaurin are a matter of personal preference though for me I do prefer Sanders over Dobbins and McLaurin over 1.5 provided I got the roster spot for him right now. So when I'm getting a second as well that's easily the side for me.
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- Thread starter Gottabesweet
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I think so, too. It's super close to me and comes down to preference. Dobbins plus the 1.05 gets you two RBs and if you happen to have strong WR depth to afford moving McLaurin, and you wanted to gain a RB, I can see it for sure. I think the 2nd is worth the premium to make that happen. But I tend to agree the 2nd is basically free.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
FFPC
I gave H Henry
I got Ertz, 2.07
I gave H Henry
I got Ertz, 2.07
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah but that was from me and I'm crazy. I agree about the Tanny side of this though.Zyphros said:
FFPC SF - the Winston one
I gave Brady, 3.12
I got Taysom Hill
So now I have the Saints QBs. It is a risk but I like the odds that they don't try to land a big name in FA or move up in the draft. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Brady was my 3rd QB. But this sums up as Brady, 2022 2nd, 3.01, 3.12 for the hedge that I will get the Saints QB out of this. There is an upside world where Hill gets the job and some other team buys Winston in FA, but that wasn't my thinking. For the record I think a future 2nd and 3.01 is a really nice get.
At first I like the Henry side. Think Ertz is donezo and a roster clogger. 2.07 is nothing to sneeze at so I guess this boils down to if you hit or miss on that pick. I don’t draft well so I would take the side getting Hunter.
after thinking about it, though, Henry isn’t special either. Not a difference maker. He’s never gonna elevate into what he’s occasionally shown us in flashes. If you are confident in your drafting ability I’d say take a shot with the 2.07. Also gives you some flexibility.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I have Waller and that is a factor. I don't hate Henry but I agree his isn't a difference maker. I have strength and depth elsewhere so Henry was never really going to be in my lineup (much). If he isn't a difference maker and he isn't in my lineup then what exactly is someone like that doing for you? I don't know that Ertz is done but he is practically free right now. If he goes to Indy or somewhere like that in FA, why not give it a ride? Yeah I consider my drafting to be my strongsuit, but I don't even think of that 2.07 as needing to hit per se. It is just another flexible piece of capital that I might use to move up (to a spot with a higher hit %). If I can acquire and aggregate capital, which I tend to do. The flexibility is definitely the key. Maybe I add a future 2nd to that 2.07 and get to like 2.01 or 1.12 and maybe I've got a gem there I'm targeting and maybe I get it and maybe it hits (I do this every year). Maybe not but I'm going to take what could be a free 2.07 if Ertz gives me *anything* more than what Henry wasn't giving me before. They're both nothing more than depth. I only need one of those.
Boston
Footballguy
Writing this after reading why you did it (i.e. having Waller)...and it makes me like the Henry side more...I am not a Hunter Henry fan, I think his name is far bigger then his output...that being said if you have him as a backup to Waller that is a very nice spot for him and puts you in a position where you don't have to worry about the TE position and if he changes teams (or with the new LA coaching if he stays) and goes to the next level he will be worth far more than what you got here...all that being said you have sound logic for why you did this deal so it's one that I wouldn't do but fully understand why you did.
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Boston
Footballguy
Waller, very easily for me...Waller is a weapon who can be a real fantasy difference-maker on a week-to-week basis, especially in today's TE landscape...this is not much to give up at all for an elite player.
Was this SF? If not I'm not very confident you can get a RB at 5 without reaching. Certainly possible someone pulls a Chase or Pitts but last year not a single one of my 6 leagues did someone take Lamb or Jeudy over one of the big 5 RB's so you were shut out of viable RB market last year at 6 in what was a deeper RB draft. I think it's safe to say we currently have a big 3 RB's, my guess right now is if it ends up being a big 3 RB's there won't be a RB at 5 to take without reaching, which does not devalue pick 5 unless you just absolutely positively had to have a RB with the pick.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
No not SF and yes of course there is no guarantee to get one of the top backs. Just saying that would be my thinking there *if* I wanted another RB. At worst it is a 1 for 1 and gives the potential option for another RB. Plus the 1.05 can be upgraded still.
I do have a strong preference for the Henry side, which you probably would have guessed based on previous convo. I think he's better then Hockenson, will likely have a better QB then Andrews and Goedert and that's the group I put him in and I would value all of them over 2.7/Ertz.
Ertz will be interesting. He looked done but he should not look as old as he did last year, makes no sense. He might very well have been just in such a mental funk over his contract situation it really impacted him, he might have a nice rebound with a change of scenery but I'd still take Henry. I know you've been saying you've been nailing your seconds but I put to much value on Henry, but that's me.
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah that's fair. My central idea here (for me) is that in the no more than maybe 3 or 4 *potential* spot starts for one of these guys, if Ertz gives me even comparable production as Henry would then this is a free 2nd. And I frankly think there is an even much greater chance that those spot starts are filled with someone else entirely that I will choose instead. Like a RB or WR.
I do like Henry and think he offers a valuable floor. I'd target him on other rosters. I don't think he will ever have more than a Kyle Rudolph type ceiling no matter where he goes. His floor is very solid, though, and by no means am I poo pooing that.
If Ertz gives me nothing, I'm still profiting the entire 2nd *if* I make solid lineup decisions in those few starts.
Now, if the argument is about Henry's market value, then I will concede I might have got more if I'd waited. But my overarching strategy this time of year is to cut (what I perceive to be) roster cloggers. But I'm not cutting players with value so I'm trying to move them for capital. If not I hold.
I disagree on that. I find value TEs every single year and they are just as good in a backup role as a more expensive vet like Henry. I don't think he *exactly* qualifies as a roster clogger because you can get production out of him but this particular team of mine is very strong and I need to make room for other speculative upside plays. He just wasn't going to get in my lineup. I'd rather liquidate in those cases. In FFPC. I think people "worry" about TE in this format waaaay too much. You need a plan at TE, and it matters, but I really don't want to hold these types of players.
But those who think he is a difference maker could be right, and if they think so they should treat him as such. And I think that is what meno is doing. I would strongly defend that approach. Just because we disagree on player x doesn't change that ideal.
Blick
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Looks like we really disagree but my guess is I don't understand this format correctly.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
That's possible but like I've been saying, my takes are incredibly FFPC centric and I would likely go a different route in deeper leagues. But Meno is coming from an FFPC perspective as well and he is with you, so....
At the end of the day this all probably just boils down to how we feel about Henry.
Boston
Footballguy
Taking away the format...I think some of the biggest roster cloggers are back-up tight ends...that is why while I am not a big Henry fan I think he is an excellent #2 TE and gives you the ability to use your roster spots on other positions and if Waller goes down you are still up to bat...I am very much about roster construction and there are certain players I value very differently based on how they will fit into my roster...Henry as a #1, I'm not too psyched about...Henry as a #2 I really like a lot.
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Yes and I don't see him as Kyle Rudolph, I see him as a top 5-6 TE, thus the difference in opinion, not over the format.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah man that's fair. As an example (it's not this league but another FFPC) I just bought Jonnu Smith for a 4th. In another I bought Higbee for a late current 3rd. I like those guys as a #2 just as much or more than Henry. Or at least within the same order of magnitude anyway. But if I can get them for a 3rd or a 4th and I can sell someone I perceive to be the same for a 2nd (and another TE that might have something left as well), then it's easy for me.
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Boston
Footballguy
Makes sense...funny, between you me and Meno you can see the difference in Henry's value...he really likes him as a #1, I see him as a quality #2 and you don't really like him.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
FFPC SuperFlex:
I gave Zeke, Parker, Higbee (speak of the devil)
I got Corey Davis, Ian Thomas, 1.09, 2.04, 3.01, 3.05
Just happened after the TE discussion but in this one I'm really not a Thomas fan but he is just a throw in for both of us. He probably won't make my roster. I am basically clearing two roster spots and liquidating Zeke here. I like Davis over Parker as well.
I gave Zeke, Parker, Higbee (speak of the devil)
I got Corey Davis, Ian Thomas, 1.09, 2.04, 3.01, 3.05
Just happened after the TE discussion but in this one I'm really not a Thomas fan but he is just a throw in for both of us. He probably won't make my roster. I am basically clearing two roster spots and liquidating Zeke here. I like Davis over Parker as well.
I love Irv in TE premium so I think I like A especially since Shenault/Reagor can still become good.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Best player in deal is Tee Higgins but a good margin. But 3-4 players with good potential (high ceiling) is a nice haul. If you have faith in their "growth", I can understand this deal. I was big on Shenault, Reagor & Harry start of last year so I think it was a good deal.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Like Patton said, if everyone is thinking alike someone is not thinking. This just means we are all thinking.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...players like Shenault and Reagor have very different values from owner to owner...I’m not overly high on either and like Higgins much more but others may think differently...the x-factor in this deal to me is Irv Smith...in a TE premium league he could really turn into an asset...he is only 22 and he does look the part...if he hits this could turn into a sneaky good deal.
5 players of value, only one who has played two years, and it's likely that 3 of them have a new QB then the one they played with as a rookie. So saying that whatever we think of these players now their values could wildly swing. The kind of trade were in the future our current opinions look foolish.
But as of now I'm with the majority opinion on this one, I'd take Higgins. Mims is close enough to Shenault or Reagor to cancel each other out, I would rather have Higgins then say Irv/Shenault or Irv/Reagor and I don't put any value on Harry or Parham.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think we’ve seen enough of Harry to know he doesn’t have much of a ceiling. At least, I have.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Harry, Smith, and Parham aren’t even decent WW fodder in an average league, so T.Higgins and Mims all day every day, until you provide details.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Harry's ceiling is approximately that of one in a crawlspace.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Ya, he’s had a great opportunity and shown bupkis in return. NE joins Seattle on the “Teams That Should Just Trade Away Their Future 1st Round Picks” list.
jtd13
Footballguy
Well that's a bit much. He did say it's TE premium. Depending how much premium (TE 2PPR for example) Smith might be worth more than Mims.
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Just did this one, FFPC, not SF(I'm learning to indicate that now)
Gave: Dak
Got: 2.11, 2022#2 I'd say has better then average shot at being high.
Cheap? Maybe but I have Mahomes and I've been trying to deal Dak since 2019, this was a new owner of an orphan team and first person in about 2 years to engage in talks for remotely fair price for him.
Also I now created room for either Jalen Hurts, Mims or Mike Williams who were all projected cuts. So really you can add whichever one of them I keep to the return of the two #2's.
Gave: Dak
Got: 2.11, 2022#2 I'd say has better then average shot at being high.
Cheap? Maybe but I have Mahomes and I've been trying to deal Dak since 2019, this was a new owner of an orphan team and first person in about 2 years to engage in talks for remotely fair price for him.
Also I now created room for either Jalen Hurts, Mims or Mike Williams who were all projected cuts. So really you can add whichever one of them I keep to the return of the two #2's.
Pwingles
Footballguy
I disagree with Irv not being a solid add. I cant imagine any dyno league, let alone TE premium leagues that he would be on the WW.
The other two are dart throws in buy low situations. I dont hold out much hope for Harry, but if LA fades Henry and an early TE in the draft, Parham is very interesting. If you're choosing between bench fodder you know and bench fodder with upside, I can see his add being only neutral to positive. Cost next to nothing and easily cut. But if he has a Logan Thomas type season next year he would be a big value.
Anywho, I was the side getting Higgins. Consolidating assets basically. Higgins will be probably my wr 6, my team is deep enough I wanted to have a guy with higher overall value at the moment and less speculative value. I feel like Tee will hold his current value thru at least the first half of next year even if his play stagnates due to the burrow injury. Reagor and Viska may not ever get there. Im fine if they do, I feel like theyre both good, so its entirely likely. But im happy with my decision
Birdie048
Footballguy
True. I do like Mims. And I agree Tee/Mims side was better deal (consolidated assets effort) but I can see the value in the move.
some have faith in JJAW still, so Harry might produce with a more acclimated Passing QB after his early learning curve indoctrination to the NFL.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
FFPC regular not involved:
Team A gave D Henry
Team B gave Godwin
FFPC Superflex not involved:
Team A gave M Sanders, AJ Brown, 3.11
Team B gave DJ Moore, Edmonds, 1.02, 2.02, 2022 2nd
Team A gave D Henry
Team B gave Godwin
FFPC Superflex not involved:
Team A gave M Sanders, AJ Brown, 3.11
Team B gave DJ Moore, Edmonds, 1.02, 2.02, 2022 2nd
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Henry deal is fair. I assume each team did that based on roster needs.
Other deal, I'd rather have Sanders & AJB as of today
I made this exact deal right before last season started(I got Henry.) I’m happy with my side, but it’s probably pretty even.
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Just saw this go down in PPR
Team A gave 1.08 & Waller
Team B gave Fant & DJ Moore
Team A gave 1.08 & Waller
Team B gave Fant & DJ Moore
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Then the guy that just got Waller did this...
Gave Z. Moss, AJ Green, Cephus, 1.03, 1.08 & 1.12 for Nuk & Barkley
Gave Z. Moss, AJ Green, Cephus, 1.03, 1.08 & 1.12 for Nuk & Barkley
