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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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Earlier in the offseason in an FFPC SF I moved Gibson and a 1st for Wilson to be my 2nd QB behind Murray. I was dealing from a position of weakness/need as was mentioned above as a problem when chasing QBs, but I love Wilson on my squad here. Coming off the ship so not totally from a position of weakness per se. But when combined with a couple other moves I made this offseason, my sober analysis is I'd rather have Gibson and that 1st. Since it looks like my small ball moves to acquire Winston and HIll will probably pay off. And I could have kept Brady instead of selling cheap. So......all in all my 1st and 2nd QB spot is locked in for years to come in a way that I love. But I could be streaming Winston/Brady there and still have Gibson and that 1st. *shrugs*

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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes, and I bailed on Murray too.

Anyway, if Russ is your guy, then it's good you got him.

And...I always miss when guys say super flex. In that case, it's a better deal than I first thought.

Oh. Dude. If it was single QB then Akers for Wilson is disgusting and horrible. 

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6 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes, and I bailed on Murray too.

Anyway, if Russ is your guy, then it's good you got him.

And...I always miss when guys say super flex. In that case, it's a better deal than I first thought.

Agreed it’s a terrible 1 qb league trade. Play qb by committee there and hold onto rb 1s like gold. 

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35 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

12 Team, 1 QB, PPR League (Not Involved)

Team A Got: Miles Sanders, 2022 2nd

Team B Got: Zeke

Team B is firmly in the win now mode.

I think that is a solid cash out for Zeke...

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12 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

I agree. It's also a good buy I think for a win now team who is worried about Sanders production this year.

Yup...if you still think Zeke has gas left in the tank and you're close that side makes sense as well.

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

Earlier in the offseason in an FFPC SF I moved Gibson and a 1st for Wilson to be my 2nd QB behind Murray. I was dealing from a position of weakness/need as was mentioned above as a problem when chasing QBs, but I love Wilson on my squad here. Coming off the ship so not totally from a position of weakness per se. But when combined with a couple other moves I made this offseason, my sober analysis is I'd rather have Gibson and that 1st. Since it looks like my small ball moves to acquire Winston and HIll will probably pay off. And I could have kept Brady instead of selling cheap. So......all in all my 1st and 2nd QB spot is locked in for years to come in a way that I love. But I could be streaming Winston/Brady there and still have Gibson and that 1st. *shrugs*

I think I wouldn't have made that move if I had 1 QB I liked and others I could play but I don't play SF in dynasty (only redraft).  Gibson (I'm lower on than most in here) and a 1st seems a bit pricey for your QB2 but they are gold in SF so it could still definitely work out for you.

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1 hour ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

12 Team, 1 QB, PPR League (Not Involved)

Team A Got: Miles Sanders, 2022 2nd

Team B Got: Zeke

Team B is firmly in the win now mode.

I think Zeke still has 2 good years left in him and if I'm trying to win (which I usually am), I'd go with that side.  However, if looking to sell Zeke then this isn't a bad cash out.  I'd have really pushed that 2nd to be a 1st, even if I had to wait until 2023 though.  Fair trade though as I'm sure both got what they wanted.

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12 team 0.5ppr Superflex, also DL/LB/DB + Dflex

Gave Trevor Lawrence, Devin Bush

Got Justin Herbert, Bradley Chubb, 2022 4th, 2022 5th

----

The Herbert owner approached me about swapping QB's, and he wanted a LB upgrade.

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5 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

Not involved, 12 Team PPR, Superflex

Team A got Julio Jones + 2022 first

Team B got CeeDee Lamb.

Also a smash accept for me.

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On 6/2/2021 at 5:06 PM, MTskibum said:

Traded away

Antonio Gibson

Diontae Johnson

 

Traded For

Josh Jacobs

Michael Gallup

Damien Harris

 

 

Gibson and Johnson by a lot for me

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Not involved.

32 team 2 QB, IDP, high kicker scoring.

 

WR J Chase

DE Chase Y

PK Chase M

 

for

 

WR Chase C

RB Chase E

QB Chase D

 

Was fairly sure everyone knows who Chase is, but put initials anyways.

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12 minutes ago, Riffraff said:

Was fairly sure everyone knows who Chase is, but put initials anyways.

lol. Username checks out, boy-o.

On a serious note, I'm not sure whose side to take because I don't know your defensive scoring rules. I'm inclined to lean towards the Ja'Marr side, but I think that might be chasing things a bit.

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On 6/4/2021 at 11:21 PM, Riffraff said:

Not involved.

32 team 2 QB, IDP, high kicker scoring.

 

WR J Chase

DE Chase Y

PK Chase M

 

for

 

WR Chase C

RB Chase E

QB Chase D

 

Was fairly sure everyone knows who Chase is, but put initials anyways.

What are you chasing on this deal?  

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On 6/5/2021 at 12:21 AM, Riffraff said:

Not involved.

32 team 2 QB, IDP, high kicker scoring.

 

WR J Chase

DE Chase Y

PK Chase M

 

for

 

WR Chase C

RB Chase E

QB Chase D

 

Was fairly sure everyone knows who Chase is, but put initials anyways.

Chasing last year's points with Claypool. Wouldn't have done this. 

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On 6/4/2021 at 10:35 PM, MTskibum said:

Nobody likes the 23 year old rb that finished #7 overall last year.

No one likes a RB that succeeded primarily on volume, who's now in line to lose volume. 

Jacobs was a big sell for me going into the offseason. I'm very happy I sold before FA started!

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2 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

No one likes a RB that succeeded primarily on volume, who's now in line to lose volume. 

Jacobs was a big sell for me going into the offseason. I'm very happy I sold before FA started!

I know the narrative is Jacobs is volume dependant but he only played about 60% of the snaps and had 60% of the carries.  He did dominate goal line work and that will continue.  Fading Jacobs because of Drake doesn't make a ton of sense to me because Jacobs will have that same 60% role with GL work, he will just continue to be unused in the passing game which caps his ceiling but he is going to have the same usage as last year.

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1 minute ago, frae said:

I know the narrative is Jacobs is volume dependant but he only played about 60% of the snaps and had 60% of the carries.  He did dominate goal line work and that will continue.  Fading Jacobs because of Drake doesn't make a ton of sense to me because Jacobs will have that same 60% role with GL work, he will just continue to be unused in the passing game which caps his ceiling but he is going to have the same usage as last year.

Yeah, you may be right. I just think to be a bonafide RB1, you need to either have a chance at healthy targets (e.g. Gibson or Ekeler), be the main runner and GL back on a great offense (CEH, Blount back in his rb1 season), or be a special talent (Chubb). I don't see any of those being the case for Jacobs. 

If he gets cheap enough, I would be interested, but it seems like people are still valuing him similarly to early last season in trades (when it looked like he might get more passing work).

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2 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

Yeah, you may be right. I just think to be a bonafide RB1, you need to either have a chance at healthy targets (e.g. Gibson or Ekeler), be the main runner and GL back on a great offense (CEH, Blount back in his rb1 season), or be a special talent (Chubb). I don't see any of those being the case for Jacobs. 

If he gets cheap enough, I would be interested, but it seems like people are still valuing him similarly to early last season in trades (when it looked like he might get more passing work).

It depends on cost as always, but he is going in the 5th round of startups right now and that is a price I think people should feel good about paying.  If you can find people valuing him in that 5th/6th round startup range and can make a trade I think he is going to prove to be a solid asset still.

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On 6/4/2021 at 1:15 PM, lardonastick said:

12 team 0.5ppr Superflex, also DL/LB/DB + Dflex

Gave Trevor Lawrence, Devin Bush

Got Justin Herbert, Bradley Chubb, 2022 4th, 2022 5th

----

The Herbert owner approached me about swapping QB's, and he wanted a LB upgrade.

What's the IDP scoring?  Is it big play or tackle heavy and is the scoring on par with the offensive side or is it an after thought.  Bush to Chubb could be a really big downgrade with the wrong answers to those questions.   For me that wouldn't matter too much as I much prefer Herbert over Lawrence due to actually doing it on an NFL field but if we are close in value there this could be a big loss.  

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Just acquired Jacobs in FFPC

Got Josh Jacob

Gave AJ Dillon, 2022 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

as much as I like Dillon and think he carves out a larger role this year and next I preferred this value on Jacobs.

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7 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Oh how the mighty have fallen...in a move to cut down total players before our rookie draft traded...

Gurley and 2.9 for 2.7. :sadbanana:

He was cut in most of my short bench leagues. Brings me back a few pages to the guy pumping the Gurley/Hilton side of a trade for Claypool.

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Posted (edited)

12 team Superflex PPR league, but QB scoring is significantly depressed. Start 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 4F, 1SF, 1K, 1DST... so 96 RB/WR/TE players will start every week even if a QB starts in every Superflex spot. Startup draft begins in a couple weeks.

  • Gave up 2021 Draft Pick 1.01; 2021 Draft Pick 10.01
  • Got 2021 Draft Pick 1.02; 2021 Draft Pick 8.02
Edited by Just Win Baby
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5 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

12 team Superflex PPR league, but QB scoring is significantly depressed. Start 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 4F, 1SF, 1K, 1DST... so 96+ RB/WR/TE players will start every week even if a QB starts in every Superflex spot. Startup draft begins in a couple weeks.

  • Gave up 2021 Draft Pick 1.01; 2021 Draft Pick 10.01
  • Got 2021 Draft Pick 1.02; 2021 Draft Pick 8.02

Superflex aint really my thing but I would have wanted more to give up Mahomes from what I understand in SF

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1 minute ago, BigAl21 said:

Superflex aint really my thing but I would have wanted more to give up Mahomes from what I understand in SF

Yeah, I mentioned that QB scoring is significantly depressed... for example, Mahomes ranked as #14 in ppg in 2020 and tied for #25 in 2019. He would certainly provide stability for the long term, but that is not the level of performance I want from the 1.1 pick.

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1 minute ago, Just Win Baby said:

Yeah, I mentioned that QB scoring is significantly depressed... for example, Mahomes ranked as #14 in ppg in 2020 and tied for #25 in 2019. He would certainly provide stability for the long term, but that is not the level of performance I want from the 1.1 pick.

gotcha... sorry I kinda glanced over that

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On 6/4/2021 at 11:15 AM, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

12 Team, 1 QB, PPR League (Not Involved)

Team A Got: Miles Sanders, 2022 2nd

Team B Got: Zeke

Team B is firmly in the win now mode.

I will take the Elliott side by a good margin.

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38 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

I will take the Elliott side by a good margin.

Same here. The beat on Zeke is that he's a 29 year old RB getting ready to put out to pasture. He's 25, a proven stud, on a top offense. I'm trying to figure out how to buy in both my leagues.

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10 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

Yeah, I mentioned that QB scoring is significantly depressed... for example, Mahomes ranked as #14 in ppg in 2020 and tied for #25 in 2019. He would certainly provide stability for the long term, but that is not the level of performance I want from the 1.1 pick.

I am not sure I agree here.  By that I mean the best player to have isn't necessarily the #1 overall guy if next year he drops to #50 and then the year after back to #30 then to #1.  I am assuming you are looking at a non-QB based on your statement but is that really the best way to go?  I want consistency for a long time if I am starting my team and getting the #1 high floor and high ceiling QB for the next 8 years seems like a good way to go.  I just don't see a RB or WR that would be a better selection for that pick.  

 

If I was trading the 1.01 in a startup I would want something more than two rounds of improvement from 10 to 8 (even if it was dropping back one pick).  I would rather just get my guy.  Who are you taking at 1.02?

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4 minutes ago, Gally said:

I am not sure I agree here.  By that I mean the best player to have isn't necessarily the #1 overall guy if next year he drops to #50 and then the year after back to #30 then to #1.  I am assuming you are looking at a non-QB based on your statement but is that really the best way to go?  I want consistency for a long time if I am starting my team and getting the #1 high floor and high ceiling QB for the next 8 years seems like a good way to go.  I just don't see a RB or WR that would be a better selection for that pick.  

 

If I was trading the 1.01 in a startup I would want something more than two rounds of improvement from 10 to 8 (even if it was dropping back one pick).  I would rather just get my guy.  Who are you taking at 1.02?

He said QB scoring is depressed. Would you take Mahomes at 1.01 in a "start 1 QB" league, because the argument would be the same?

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

He said QB scoring is depressed. Would you take Mahomes at 1.01 in a "start 1 QB" league, because the argument would be the same?

Possibly.  Based on his PPG finishes I think it would be safe to assume he is going to be a top 20 overall guy every year.  Is there anybody else that fits in that for the next 8 years?  I haven't done an actual start up draft as all my startups are auctions so I haven't had to think about it in a draft mindset.  I guess is CMC (with his injury risk) for the next 3 years better than Mahomes for the next 8 years?  Kamara? Barkley? Adams (pre Rodgers issues)? Tyreek?  Everyone has questions.

 

And even with QB scoring being depressed it is still a SF.  Playing a QB in that spot should give you a higher floor week to week which also has it's advantages so it isn't a straight equivalent to a start 1 QB situation.  

 

I guess my point is that just because I may think I am not taking the consensus guy at 1.01 (assuming it's Mahomes based on the comment) I would still want more than a two round improvement in round 10 unless I plan to still make more moves with the 1.02.

 

I guess my question to the OP would be what "level of performance" do you want from the 1.01?  And who would provide that?

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20 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

Just acquired Jacobs in FFPC

Got Josh Jacob

Gave AJ Dillon, 2022 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

as much as I like Dillon and think he carves out a larger role this year and next I preferred this value on Jacobs.

The deal for Jacobs that cost the team Gibson/Diontae Johnson was too much for Jacobs but I honestly like this value.  A lot of small pieces but seems fair for what Jacobs will give you.  I'd have payed this.

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On 6/7/2021 at 10:52 AM, Gally said:

What's the IDP scoring?  Is it big play or tackle heavy and is the scoring on par with the offensive side or is it an after thought.  Bush to Chubb could be a really big downgrade with the wrong answers to those questions.   For me that wouldn't matter too much as I much prefer Herbert over Lawrence due to actually doing it on an NFL field but if we are close in value there this could be a big loss.  

D. White TB was #1 scoring LB @ 146 pts last year; #24 LB scored 105 pts last year.

D. Adams GB was the #1 WR last year @ 309 pts, #36 WR scored 155 pts.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gally said:
On 6/7/2021 at 11:39 PM, Just Win Baby said:

Yeah, I mentioned that QB scoring is significantly depressed... for example, Mahomes ranked as #14 in ppg in 2020 and tied for #25 in 2019. He would certainly provide stability for the long term, but that is not the level of performance I want from the 1.1 pick.

I am not sure I agree here.  By that I mean the best player to have isn't necessarily the #1 overall guy if next year he drops to #50 and then the year after back to #30 then to #1.  I am assuming you are looking at a non-QB based on your statement but is that really the best way to go?  I want consistency for a long time if I am starting my team and getting the #1 high floor and high ceiling QB for the next 8 years seems like a good way to go.  I just don't see a RB or WR that would be a better selection for that pick.  

 

If I was trading the 1.01 in a startup I would want something more than two rounds of improvement from 10 to 8 (even if it was dropping back one pick).  I would rather just get my guy.  Who are you taking at 1.02?

 

On 6/8/2021 at 10:10 AM, Gally said:
On 6/8/2021 at 10:02 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

He said QB scoring is depressed. Would you take Mahomes at 1.01 in a "start 1 QB" league, because the argument would be the same?

Possibly.  Based on his PPG finishes I think it would be safe to assume he is going to be a top 20 overall guy every year.  Is there anybody else that fits in that for the next 8 years?  I haven't done an actual start up draft as all my startups are auctions so I haven't had to think about it in a draft mindset.  I guess is CMC (with his injury risk) for the next 3 years better than Mahomes for the next 8 years?  Kamara? Barkley? Adams (pre Rodgers issues)? Tyreek?  Everyone has questions.

 

And even with QB scoring being depressed it is still a SF.  Playing a QB in that spot should give you a higher floor week to week which also has it's advantages so it isn't a straight equivalent to a start 1 QB situation.  

 

I guess my point is that just because I may think I am not taking the consensus guy at 1.01 (assuming it's Mahomes based on the comment) I would still want more than a two round improvement in round 10 unless I plan to still make more moves with the 1.02.

 

I guess my question to the OP would be what "level of performance" do you want from the 1.01?  And who would provide that?

 

Glad to see this stimulated some discussion. A bit of background. This is a 12 team PPR league with these starting lineup requirements: 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 4F (R/W/T), 1SF (Q/R/W/T), 1K, 1DST. Since we have to start at least 8 R/W/T players x 12 teams each week, it seems very likely that the SF position will typically be a QB.

However, QB scoring is much lower than I have ever seen in any league: 0.0333 per passing yard (1/30); 2.667 per passing TD; 0.0667 per rushing yard (1/15); 4 per rushing TD.

As a point of reference, Mahomes averaged 19.315 ppg in this system last season. QB24 by ppg was Bridgewater, who averaged 13.572 ppg. So Mahomes was worth less than 6 ppg more than Bridgewater. That is less than the spread between RB12 and RB36, but it is more than the spread between WR12 and WR36 (about 3.4 ppg). Granted that is just one season, but it gives a feel.

My thought was that in this system, Mahomes offers less of an expected positional advantage than in most leagues, so I am more reluctant than I would usually be (in Superflex) to take a QB at 1.1 and have to wait for 22 more players to be drafted before drafting my second player and first potential non-QB. I expect a significant dropoff in talent to occur over that span.

As for the value of what I got, we will be starting 10 skill position players every week, so we are drafting starters in the 8th-10th rounds. Moving up 23 spots from 10.1 to 8.2 should be valuable as long as I don't botch the pick (a distinct possibility...).

I certainly could have made a tactical error. I haven't participated in a dynasty startup draft since 2010, just played in a couple long running leagues, so I am definitely out of practice That is one reason I posted the trade, to get some opinions. Thanks for the responses.

Edited by Just Win Baby
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54 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

As a point of reference, Mahomes averaged 19.315 ppg in this system last season. QB24 by ppg was Bridgewater, who averaged 13.572 ppg. So Mahomes was worth less than 6 ppg more than Bridgewater. That is less than the spread between RB12 and RB36, but it is more than the spread between WR12 and WR36 (about 3.4 ppg). Granted that is just one season, but it gives a feel.

My thought was that in this system, Mahomes offers less of an expected advantage than in most leagues, so I am more reluctant than I would usually be to take a QB at 1.1 and have to wait for 22 more players to be drafted before drafting my second player and first potential non-QB. I expect a significant dropoff in talent to occur over that span.

I understand the raw data however this is a weekly game.  And although the overall point totals are not thought of to be that significant (6 ppg over the entire season) the advantage of Mahomes over other QB's is that he is generally a top 5 QB every week.  So although his yearly totals may be close to others when the season is over his weekly floor is very advantageous to have.  

 

I also think the first round is better suited for safer, high floor choices over the big variance risky players.  First round picks rarely win the league for you but they can very much cause you to lose (injury, underperformance, etc). 

 

Now I would be much more inclined to like the deal if you weren't swapping 8th and 10th rounders and just acquired another pick since as you stated those are starter caliber players in theory.  But dropping from pick 1 to pick 2 really isn't all that much of a drop.......especially if there isn't anybody you prefer.  

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