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RB Christian McCaffrey, SF (2 Viewers)

Huh? McCaffery and Mixon look like the two best rookies? Guys in an obvious committee? Cook is the best rookie and its not even close. Not. Even. Close. 

He already has passed Murray (who is hurt and already not highly thought of), the guys u mentioned cant pass the guys they were drafted to replace in camp. Not saying they wont, but you cant say the two guys who have not earned a starting job yet are the best, at least thats my opinion. 

Fournette? He is my #2 right now. Mixon is the least exciting out of all of them, I might take Hunt over him at this point. 
lol

 
If you watched every play in of cmac in the preseason and watched him in college and you dont see a fantasy stud in the making well then thats on you.  This kid will be going mid to late 2nd from here on out.  The check down throw from Cam tells me he will catch 50 balls minimum.

 
Cook has the best role, but I don't think he has looked better than CMc. 
I think Cook has played well but McCaffrey has made bigger plays and to me looked better than Cook in this small sample of preseason games.

Cook has made mistakes and did not look as comfortable as McCaffrey to me.

 
Reasonable response from...

If you watched every play in of cmac in the preseason and watched him in college and you dont see a fantasy stud in the making well then thats on you.  This kid will be going mid to late 2nd from here on out.  The check down throw from Cam tells me he will catch 50 balls minimum.
"Pantherclub"

Bias or nah?

Anyways...make your way over to the Cam thread and let me know your thoughts on him. Does he bounce back enough to make CMac effective? I own Cam, so I have interest but I do think CMac helps Cam, if he decides he wants to utilize a RB in the passing game finally. My guess is coaches will do a good job drawing stuff up.

None of that has anything to do with my belief that Cook is the best RB and Fournette will be right there with Cook and that they are the two best, lol to your hearts desire.  

 
I think Cook has played well but McCaffrey has made bigger plays and to me looked better than Cook in this small sample of preseason games.

Cook has made mistakes and did not look as comfortable as McCaffrey to me.
CMac did average only 3 ypc last night, so lets slow down on how great he has looked to date. i have stock, so I am not here to discourage but I see some hype thats not justified yet. Yet, being the operative word. He hasnt even surpassed JStew yet, and for fantasy purposes, that matters. Yet, again being the operative word. 

 
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I do think CMac helps Cam, if he decides he wants to utilize a RB in the passing game finally.
I don't think Cam was against utilizing a RB in the passing game in the past. The Panthers didn't really have the right pass catching RB for the role, and the coaches didn't call up that type of play much. 

 
I don't think Cam was against utilizing a RB in the passing game in the past. The Panthers didn't really have the right pass catching RB for the role, and the coaches didn't call up that type of play much. 
I hear ya, but I know its not sexy to say but Tolbert and DWill were good out of the backfield. Maybe not as talented as CMac but very very effective. 

 
CMac did average only 3 ypc last night, so lets slow down on how great he has looked to date. i have stock, so I am not here to discourage but I see some hype thats not justified yet. Yet, being the operative word. He hasnt even surpassed JStew yet, and for fantasy purposes, that matters. Yet, again being the operative word. 
Did you watch the game last night

 
Stew isn't going away. Neither is McCaff. Similar roles to Hill/Gio in years past I would think w/ Cam vultering TDs too. 


I guess I'll respectfully disagree, as I've stated before.  A RB who has a significant injury history, turned 30, and has had 3 straight years of incrementally decreasing ypa looks like a candidate to lose work load if the team has a talented buck in the wings.  CAR has that.

 
Yes, what did I say however that isnt true? 
That he hasn't surpassed jstew for one.  Secondly you are dogging his ypc without looking at the big picture.  You have some weird fixation on knocking Cmac.  Nobody is on board with you.  Kid is going to be a fantasy star.  

 
I guess I'll respectfully disagree, as I've stated before.  A RB who has a significant injury history, turned 30, and has had 3 straight years of incrementally decreasing ypa looks like a candidate to lose work load if the team has a talented buck in the wings.  CAR has that.
I think McCaffrey is going to be more effective as a RB than a pass catcher int is offense. Based of historic tendencies of this offense. CMac will take more carries away from JStew as well, is my belief. 

 
I don't think Cam was against utilizing a RB in the passing game in the past. The Panthers didn't really have the right pass catching RB for the role, and the coaches didn't call up that type of play much. 
I hear ya, but I know its not sexy to say but Tolbert and DWill were good out of the backfield. Maybe not as talented as CMac but very very effective. 
They could catch, but the Panthers had a different offensive philosophy then. They learned the hard way that having Cam throw long all the time gets him killed. They know they need to incorporate some dinking and dunking, and they drafted a couple young players to help them achieve that. Cam has been working on his short passes. No matter how long you have been in the league there is always room for growth.

 
They could catch, but the Panthers had a different offensive philosophy then. They learned the hard way that having Cam throw long all the time gets him killed. They know they need to incorporate some dinking and dunking, and they drafted a couple young players to help them achieve that. Cam has been working on his short passes. No matter how long you have been in the league there is always room for growth.
I hope, I hope they stop letting Cam take those shots at the GL. Cams arm needs the dinking and dunking after surgery too. 

 
I don't think this will happen. But mcaffery may actually help reenergize Stewart to some degree making him fight for his carries.would be kind of funny if he has one of his better seasons this year.

 
They might eat into each other's work a bit but there are much worse rbbc guys out there. Good chance cmc earns a greater share of snaps or jstew gets banged up so I'll take the cmc part. Not paying 2nd rd price for redraft but can see the appeal in the 3-4th rds. 

I think the best outcome for the panthers is cmc relegates jstew to short yardage situations and he can come in fresh and just slam it home. Cmc becomes 3 down option but loses short ydg work. 

 
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CMac did average only 3 ypc last night, so lets slow down on how great he has looked to date. i have stock, so I am not here to discourage but I see some hype thats not justified yet. Yet, being the operative word. He hasnt even surpassed JStew yet, and for fantasy purposes, that matters. Yet, again being the operative word. 
I wish you would stop with the "Stewart is starting" narrative. It means nothing.  I have no problem with Stewart starting, he's the 10 year vet and plays well enough that they are going to give him the respect of the starting role. That does not mean, however, that he will have more touches than McCaffrey.  Last night, for example, Stewart started and had four touches, McCaffrey did not start and had five touches.

It is very possible, probable even, that Stewart starts every game (every game he's healthy) and gets out-touched by McCaffrey.

 
The above argument was not very compelling. Yards per carry is so meaningless on so few touches. That kind of analysis suggests box score scouting. In my view yards per carry only becomes relevant when you are talking about a few seasons of data at least.

I also don't really see how one could think that the relative value between McCaffrey and Cook isn't close. To me it is a coin flip and one you can't really lose.

 
The above argument was not very compelling. Yards per carry is so meaningless on so few touches. That kind of analysis suggests box score scouting. In my view yards per carry only becomes relevant when you are talking about a few seasons of data at least.

I also don't really see how one could think that the relative value between McCaffrey and Cook isn't close. To me it is a coin flip and one you can't really lose.
Thank you.  Its obvious mavis just looked at the box score instead of the big picture.  The check down from cam tells me all i need to know

 
The long run from Stewart told me what I needed to know. He is no longer the explosive player he once was. McCaffrey will lead the backfield in carries too. It probably won't start that way, but by season's end, he'll lead them in carries and be third in receptions.

 
One whole checkdown, huh?

I see you went to the Al Davis school of draft scouting.
You think that is an abnormally after the Panthers saying that is how they are structuring their offense and with the first game Cam is back?   I think you will see multiple plays like that a game.  Plus we havent even seen Cmac and Samuels on the field together which should really open things up.  I think from here on we will start seeing Cmac going as early as 2.5.  He may not hit a crazy ceiling this year but I think his floor is as solid as almost any other top tier RB.

 
You think that is an abnormally after the Panthers saying that is how they are structuring their offense and with the first game Cam is back?   I think you will see multiple plays like that a game.  Plus we havent even seen Cmac and Samuels on the field together which should really open things up.  I think from here on we will start seeing Cmac going as early as 2.5.  He may not hit a crazy ceiling this year but I think his floor is as solid as almost any other top tier RB.
I think you are correct. But to say that one completed screen pass somehow is the defining moment for an entire season seems a tad...premature.  They threw the ball to RBs around 70 times last season, I am not sure how many more RB passes it is reasonable to expect from them this season.  Maybe enough to make McCaffrey a 50 catch guy but I wouldn't be surprised if he capped out at 40 either.  I have a great deal of difficulty projecting him for 70+ that's for sure even 60 feels like a long shot.

 
I think you are correct. But to say that one completed screen pass somehow is the defining moment for an entire season seems a tad...premature.  They threw the ball to RBs around 70 times last season, I am not sure how many more RB passes it is reasonable to expect from them this season.  Maybe enough to make McCaffrey a 50 catch guy but I wouldn't be surprised if he capped out at 40 either.  I have a great deal of difficulty projecting him for 70+ that's for sure even 60 feels like a long shot.
I didnt say that or mean that.  Just thought that is a sign of things to come in this offense after all they had talked about it.  Something that no other Panther RB has really done with consistency.  I would bet the absolute farm that his floor for catches is 50.   Assuming he misses a couple games for various reasons thats only like 3 catches a game.  Easily done IMO.  Add the rushing yards and whatever td's he comes by I think his floor is solid.  Probably will take a season or two to get really comfortable in the offense and hit his peak. 

Having said that looking at it now I would probably have a difficult time selecting him where he is probably going to go in this weekends drafts.  Lots of proven talent in the same range as where he is going.  If I was goign to be cute and roll the proverbial dice I would but I am not a huge risk taker in that regard.

 
i'd like to ask here why does everyone feel that he will be that special of a fantasy player when reggie bush came out with equal if not greater hype back in 2006, was as good if not better RB prospect, and identically sized?  i want to believe but having a hard time putting him over mixon and cook in a dynasty league at this point in time.  would appreciate any different views as CMC the one out of the three i'd like to root for.

 
i'd like to ask here why does everyone feel that he will be that special of a fantasy player when reggie bush came out with equal if not greater hype back in 2006, was as good if not better RB prospect, and identically sized?  i want to believe but having a hard time putting him over mixon and cook in a dynasty league at this point in time.  would appreciate any different views as CMC the one out of the three i'd like to root for.


Hype does not equal production.  Bush was never a threat between the tackles and was surrounded by a lot more talent in college.  As we can see now, Bush's holes in his game were undersold significantly.  McCaffrey is a much more complete back and put up his production with less support.  In my opinion, at least.

 
i'd like to ask here why does everyone feel that he will be that special of a fantasy player when reggie bush came out with equal if not greater hype back in 2006, was as good if not better RB prospect, and identically sized?  i want to believe but having a hard time putting him over mixon and cook in a dynasty league at this point in time.  would appreciate any different views as CMC the one out of the three i'd like to root for.
It's a good question on the surface but the truth is that Reggie played on one of the most dominant college football teams ever.  There were four eventual NFL starters on his college offensive line. Ryan Kalil is still playing at a high level in Carolina.  He also played with two eventual NFL QBs, four NFL WRs, two NFL RBs and an NFL TE as well.  Many of his flaws were masked by the overwhelming talent gap USC had over their opponents.

McCaffrey has been pretty much the entire show in Stanford for the last two seasons. He is far more tested than Bush ever was.

 
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Huh? McCaffery and Mixon look like the two best rookies? Guys in an obvious committee? Cook is the best rookie and its not even close. Not. Even. Close. 

He already has passed Murray (who is hurt and already not highly thought of), the guys u mentioned cant pass the guys they were drafted to replace in camp. Not saying they wont, but you cant say the two guys who have not earned a starting job yet are the best, at least thats my opinion. 

Fournette? He is my #2 right now. Mixon is the least exciting out of all of them, I might take Hunt over him at this point. 
I'm talking about how they look, not where they are on the depth chart right this minute. I play in 7 dynasty leagues and only 1 redraft, so my perspective is skewed long-term. No way I'd take Hunt over Mixon in dynasty or Cook over Mixon/McCaffrey. Bernard/Hill are not long-term obstacles to Mixon and McCaffrey should have a huge role from day one, regardless of whether someone like Stewart is the nominal starter. McCaffrey should get 150+ carries and 50+ receptions this season, and that might be a conservative estimate.

 
USC had a good team, but Reggie Bush was a special talent. He had elite speed and his open field moves were very good. Bush was never a good inside runner though, even at USC. He had no power. LenDale White would do a lot of the dirty work for that USC team because Bush wasn't cut out for it. Bush still had a good NFL/FF career though. Even when his YPC was bad, he was often startable in PPR leagues because he would catch passes.

McCaffrey isn't as fast as Bush was, but I think he's a much better interior runner. He's not going to be the 350+ touch bellcow like a LeVeon Bell or Ezekiel Elliott might, but versatile mismatch weapons have been big in the NFL for the past several years and McCaffrey is a guy who opens up a lot of possibilities. He can be like a better version of Danny Woodhead, racking up receptions and supplementing it with some rushing yards and TDs. I think he's going to be pretty good in PPR right away, just as Bush was.

 
Would you take mccaffery over mixon and cook in a .5 ppr dynasty rookie draft?  

 
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Wouldnyoy take mccaffery over mixon and cook in a .5 ppr dynasty rookie draft?  
I think that would be reason to lower expectations somewhat from 1 point per reception.

The total yards will still be high if one is thinking McCaffrey will have a lot of receptions (I do). so it wouldn't be much of a downgrade. I think McCaffrey will still be valuable in standard scoring leagues for the same reason.

Reggie Bush finished top 12(ish) in standard scoring three times in his career. These players obviously more valuable in 1 point PPR though.

 
The long run from Stewart told me what I needed to know. He is no longer the explosive player he once was. McCaffrey will lead the backfield in carries too. It probably won't start that way, but by season's end, he'll lead them in carries and be third in receptions.
Between all of the injuries and father time, I don't think he's been particularly explosive for while. What he does well is break tackles. 72% of his yards last year came after contact which lead the league by a fair margin. PFF credits him with the most broken tackles since 2015. Last year he forced 47 missed tackles, tied with Bell for 2nd most. Ajayi lead the league with 58. Oh yeah, he was also PFF's highest graded pass blocking RB.

I really don't think he's going anywhere. He looks the same to me as he did last year.

 
I might just draft CMC over mixon and cook just to see how this plays out.  If he is able to run inside in the nfl effectively and not be perpetually banged up then sky really is the limit.  I hope he's a little more than a slightly better Danny woodhead though.  He needs to be a LOT better Danny woodhead lol.

 
I don't get the Woodhead comparisons at all.  Don't tell me McCaffrey can't run between the tackles.  You're telling me then that you haven't seen him play.

 
I am pretty sure the Woodhead comparison is because of McCaffreys outstanding abilities as a receiver and similar size. At least for me the comparison ends there.

Its not like McCaffrey is going to move a pile in short yardage. Doesn't mean he can't run between the tackles though, he can. So can Woodhead.

 
USC had a good team, but Reggie Bush was a special talent. He had elite speed and his open field moves were very good. Bush was never a good inside runner though, even at USC. He had no power. LenDale White would do a lot of the dirty work for that USC team because Bush wasn't cut out for it. Bush still had a good NFL/FF career though. Even when his YPC was bad, he was often startable in PPR leagues because he would catch passes.

McCaffrey isn't as fast as Bush was, but I think he's a much better interior runner. He's not going to be the 350+ touch bellcow like a LeVeon Bell or Ezekiel Elliott might, but versatile mismatch weapons have been big in the NFL for the past several years and McCaffrey is a guy who opens up a lot of possibilities. He can be like a better version of Danny Woodhead, racking up receptions and supplementing it with some rushing yards and TDs. I think he's going to be pretty good in PPR right away, just as Bush was.
USC wasn't "good" they were arguably one of the best teams in college football history. Plenty of ammo for debate on that one but without question that team is in the conversation.

Bush never had to deal with the stacked boxes and exclusive defensive game-planning that McCaffrey did, and they played in the same conference so they faced similar quality opponents.  Defenses went into Stanford games with one goal "Stop McCaffery" defenses went up against USC with the goal of "Don't poop our pants completely."

 
I'm not going to get into a big debate about it, but trying to color Reggie Bush as a product of the USC system reeks of hindsight bias. He was a dominant force and a Heisman winner. While he always had detractors as an NFL prospect, it was considered a mild shock when Houston passed on him with the #1 pick in the entire draft. That says a lot about how he was viewed at the time. He was a sensation and about as hyped coming into the league as any RB prospect has been in the past 10-15 years.

That said, I don't think I ever argued that Bush = McCaffrey or that one is better than the other. If anything, I think my first comment on the matter was just to suggest that they aren't really very alike. The height/weight look similar and they're both versatile backs from the Pac-10/Pac-12, but they play a lot differently. I don't see how citing Reggie Bush's NFL career is that relevant to a discussion of McCaffrey, though I'd also argue that Bush actually had a pretty good pro career (just nowhere near what was expected).

 
In just less than five hours I'm going to take McCaffrey #1 overall in a dynasty rookie draft.  I traded multiple first rounders to get him.  I'm drafting him over Cook and I invented the term Vikings HOMER.  I will regret nothing. =)
I'm really interested in your take on this mad Viking.  I too have the 1.1 pick starting tomorrow night at 9pm and honestly I have been agonizing bw mccaffery, cook and mixon for weeks.  Why so much higher on mccaffery than cook as a vikes fan?

 
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I'm really interested in your take on this mad Viking.  I too have the 1.1 pick starting tomorrow night at 9pm and honestly I have been agonizing bw mccaffery, cook and mixon for weeks.  Why so much higher on mccaffery than cook as a vikes fan?
I guess it's just a feeling.  I really think McCaffrey is a once in a decade type FF player. AKA Tomlinson,Peterson type.  On top of that he's the type player I love to watch on the ticket when the Vikings aren't on.  ***DISCLAIMER*** I felt the same way about Manziel, luckily I was unsuccessful when I tried to trade up to get him. lol  Cook is going to be special IMHO as well but I'm gonna go non-homer this year and try something different.  NOTE: I did try to trade down to #2, with the team that moved in front of me at #3, to take take either McCaffrey or Cook.  The guys a Carolina fan, but he wont give me the boatload it's going to take to move up to one now.  Will teach him not to trade up to try and cut my throat. ha

 
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Huh? McCaffery and Mixon look like the two best rookies? Guys in an obvious committee? Cook is the best rookie and its not even close. Not. Even. Close. 

He already has passed Murray (who is hurt and already not highly thought of), the guys u mentioned cant pass the guys they were drafted to replace in camp. Not saying they wont, but you cant say the two guys who have not earned a starting job yet are the best, at least thats my opinion. 

Fournette? He is my #2 right now. Mixon is the least exciting out of all of them, I might take Hunt over him at this point. 
lol 

Cook is the "best rookie" because he has a clear path to starting? Are you trying to say that Cook's situation currently makes him the best rookie option in redraft leagues?

necause that would be almost true.

but you said "best rookie" - and best rookie is not Cook. It's one of either CMC or Mixon.

they are better Rookies. Just not in Better situations. 

 
lol 

Cook is the "best rookie" because he has a clear path to starting? Are you trying to say that Cook's situation currently makes him the best rookie option in redraft leagues?

necause that would be almost true.

but you said "best rookie" - and best rookie is not Cook. It's one of either CMC or Mixon.

they are better Rookies. Just not in Better situations. 
Says you and a few others in this thread, but hardly a fact

 
Says you and a few others in this thread, but hardly a fact
Oh ... so was the part when you said "Cook is the best rookie" a fact?

i just want to clear this up, I'm dying to hear why he's the "best rookie" just because he has an easier path to start THIS season.

 
Well, for better of for worse I'm all in on CMC.  Took him at 1.1 in my rookie draft today.  I had a temptation to go with Kareem hunt after Ware's season ended but I didn't have the balls to pass up on one of the big 4 for him.   The guy RT behind me grabbed hunt at 1.2!  

Heres why I went CMC: 

its a .5ppr dynasty league 

I feel talent wise he is the best of the bunch from college tape and preseason tape.  

High draft pick means the team has more invested in him than say the bengals or vikes have with mixon or cook 

the panthers have the best offense out of the 4 big rbs.   

I view Stewart as just a temporary barrier to CMC getting a feature back workload.  Stewart also gets injured a lot and misses games almost every year.  CMC's presence might actually help preserve Stewart this year but that only means CMC will be used.  

Panthers have the easiest sos for the run game this year compared to the jags, vikes, and bengals.  

Panthers seem to have the best o line out of the bunch. 

Mccaffery will be involved in all phases of the game plan. Whether they are ahead or behind.  

 
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