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Oregon Militia Takeover - Ammon Bundy arrested


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The FBI is now trying to negotiate with the protesters, but no progress has been made.

the negotiator hung up, Bundy handed the borrowed cellphone to an FBI agent and headed for a pickup truck for the 30-mile drive back to the refuge

Its beyond me, why they didn't arrest him right there.

At this point, I also don't understand why the government is allowing supplies in and out. Its time to cut them off.

Thanks NSA for passing this idea on to the FBI. :thumbup:

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

You wanna kill a few brain cells? Read the comments on the Foxnews article. "Obama needs to be hung for treason!!!!1!"

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

I believe it was local police, not FBI. I doubt there's video, but maybe one will pop up.

I'm curious to know if he was armed.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

I believe it was local police, not FBI. I doubt there's video, but maybe one will pop up.

I'm curious to know if he was armed.

I'm curious to know why anyone should care if he was or not. He made his intentions known that he wasn't going peacefully. In his case, one suspect move equals one dead suspect.

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I don't think it's unfair to wonder whether an officer can "reasonably" fear imminent death or grave personal injury when there are no indicators a suspect is armed, regardless of what the suspect has said in the past. I mean,I know it would pass muster the way the law is most commonly interpreted today, but when people like me are arguing that reasonable is being interpreted too broadly in other deadly force incidents, we have to consider the same argument even as it relates to suspects we really don't like.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."
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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.

If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

I believe it was local police, not FBI. I doubt there's video, but maybe one will pop up.

I'm curious to know if he was armed.

I'm curious to know why anyone should care if he was or not. He made his intentions known that he wasn't going peacefully. In his case, one suspect move equals one dead suspect.

I care. If he was rushing the officer, armed or unarmed makes little difference, but I expect a thorough investigation. His previous statements are irrelevant.

The police shooting of a guy charging an officer he had just previously assaulted started riots in Ferguson. I suspect that won't happen here, but best to get the truth out anyway.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."
Sharp said that while some in the car with her had their guns, she believed that none of the occupiers had attempted to use them. She said Ryan Bundy was hit by a bullet in the shoulder as they were ducking down in the car.

So.....they were armed.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."
In his video, McConnell said Ammon Bundy and Cavalier were in the vehicle he was driving to John Day for a community meeting. He said Finicum was driving a pickup that carried Ryan Bundy, Payne, Cox and the 18-year-old woman.
He said as they traveled on U.S. 395 police vehicles pulled in behind them and stopped them. McConnell said he was removed by police first, then Ammon Bundy then Cavalier.
He said Finicum's pickup was stopped about 200 yards away, and one passenger already was on the ground in handcuffs.
McConnell said Payne and Cox later recounted how Payne and Finicum got into a "heated discussion" about what to do.
"LaVoy was passionate about this, about the movement," McConnell said.
McConnell said he noticed movement, and Finicum "took off" in the pickup with the remaining passengers. He said Payne and Cox described encountering a police roadblock about a mile north on the highway and apparently tried to get around it, becoming stuck in the snow.
"When he exited the vehicle, the rear wheels were still spinning," McConnell said. "He charged at law enforcement" and was shot.
McConnell disputed earlier accounts on social media that Finicum was shot while on his knees with his hands up.
McConnell said he and the 18-year-old, Victoria Sharp, were taken to Burns for questioning and later released.
His account couldn't be immediately confirmed, but several details matched accounts from law enforcement sources.
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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."

Sharp said that while some in the car with her had their guns, she believed that none of the occupiers had attempted to use them. She said Ryan Bundy was hit by a bullet in the shoulder as they were ducking down in the car.

So.....they were armed.

:confused:

There's nothing in that statement that says he was armed when was shot.

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She also says a hundred shots were fired at the car. I imagine there would be a bullet-riddled car to be seen if that was the case. Also, a miracle that no one else in the car was hit despite this hail of gunfire.

Pretty irresponsible as well unless they were actively being shot at.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."

Sharp said that while some in the car with her had their guns, she believed that none of the occupiers had attempted to use them. She said Ryan Bundy was hit by a bullet in the shoulder as they were ducking down in the car.

So.....they were armed.

:confused:

There's nothing in that statement that says he was armed when was shot.

I'm not very bright, but if you have guns in a car you are driving, are you not armed? Does armed mean it has to be on your person? I've watched enough COPS to know that when they pull over a car with a gun inside of it, tensions seem to escalate. That's about the extent of my knowledge about law enforcement, arrests, suspects, cars and guns.

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

Sounds like LaVoy charged at police.

From the teenage girl who was in the car with Finicum: "[He] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, 'Just shoot me then, just shoot me.' And they did."

Sharp said that while some in the car with her had their guns, she believed that none of the occupiers had attempted to use them. She said Ryan Bundy was hit by a bullet in the shoulder as they were ducking down in the car.

So.....they were armed.

:confused:

There's nothing in that statement that says he was armed when was shot.

I'm not very bright, but if you have guns in a car you are driving, are you not armed? Does armed mean it has to be on your person? I've watched enough COPS to know that when they pull over a car with a gun inside of it, tensions seem to escalate. That's about the extent of my knowledge about law enforcement, arrests, suspects, cars and guns.

Armed would be on your person. Cops shouldn't be shooting people that aren't an imminent threat regardless of what they may say or may have previously said (or done for that matter).

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Twitter still littered with tweets about Finicum's "murder".

These people really believe that after the Feds had done everything reasonable to avoid violent escalation, they suddenly decided they needed to execute Tarp Man in the road.

It does seem rather unlikely.
If the Feds were out for blood, they would have killed Bundy, not Finicum. Also, there were ~8 people in the vehicles and most were arrested without incident -- and at least 2 of them were released without even being charged. That completely goes against the narrative of the FBI wanting to kill and/or charge everyone.

(Not that I would expect any of the militia types to accept that logic...)

It doesn't mean the FBI didn't use excessive force given the situation. Have we seen a video?

First hand accounts.

So.....they were armed.

:confused:

There's nothing in that statement that says he was armed when was shot.

I'm not very bright, but if you have guns in a car you are driving, are you not armed? Does armed mean it has to be on your person? I've watched enough COPS to know that when they pull over a car with a gun inside of it, tensions seem to escalate. That's about the extent of my knowledge about law enforcement, arrests, suspects, cars and guns.

Armed would be on your person. Cops shouldn't be shooting people that aren't an imminent threat regardless of what they may say or may have previously said (or done for that matter).

I completely agree with you.

So, if/when I look back through the Ferguson threads et al, I will find you eloquently posting this same sentiment?

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These outraged militia types are the same people who protested over unarmed black men being killed by police too, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

Pretty much the same.

People buy into the story they want to hear that fits their agenda.

Plus, you know, the protesting dimwits in Oregon are saying it themselves, so....there's that.

One of the remaining occupiers, Jason Patrick, told Reuters by phone they would stay until the "redress of grievances".
“I've heard 'peaceful resolution' for weeks now and now there’s a cowboy who is my friend who is dead – so prepare for the peaceful resolution,” Patrick said.
The FBI said they also arrested an eighth person in Peoria, Arizona, in relation to the occupation.
All of those arrested face federal charges of conspiracy to use force, intimidation or threats to impede federal officers from discharging their duties, the FBI said.
The protester Patrick likened Finicum’s death to the killing of Tamir Rice, an unarmed 12-year-old African American boy fatally shot by police outside a Cleveland recreation center in 2014. The officers were not charged.
"The government can kill who they want for whatever reason they want with impunity," Patrick said.
Asked how the occupiers would respond to law enforcement entering the refuge he did not indicate a clear plan.
"I don't know what to tell you but if somebody saying 'peaceful resolution' comes in and points guns at me..." he said before trailing off.
The Oregonian reported that Bundy had been en route to a community meeting in John Day, Oregon, where he was scheduled to be a guest speaker, when authorities stopped his vehicle.

So again, I'm guessing these guys were out there protesting Black Lives Matter too, right?

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These outraged militia types are the same people who protested over unarmed black men being killed by police too, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

Pretty much the same.

People buy into the story they want to hear that fits their agenda.

Wrong.

Explain the difference then...

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These outraged militia types are the same people who protested over unarmed black men being killed by police too, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

Pretty much the same.

People buy into the story they want to hear that fits their agenda.

Wrong.

Yeah, except one of the protesters still there said it was the same thing, so....I think you might be the one who is wrong?

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These outraged militia types are the same people who protested over unarmed black men being killed by police too, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

Pretty much the same.

People buy into the story they want to hear that fits their agenda.

Wrong.

Yeah, except one of the protesters still there said it was the same thing, so....I think you might be the one who is wrong?

You take all the fun out of it. Of course it is the same. :kicksrock:

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These outraged militia types are the same people who protested over unarmed black men being killed by police too, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

Pretty much the same.

People buy into the story they want to hear that fits their agenda.

Wrong.

Yeah, except one of the protesters still there said it was the same thing, so....I think you might be the one who is wrong?

You take all the fun out of it. Of course it is the same. :kicksrock:

:bag:

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Armed would be on your person. Cops shouldn't be shooting people that aren't an imminent threat regardless of what they may say or may have previously said (or done for that matter).

I completely agree with you.

So, if/when I look back through the Ferguson threads et al, I will find you eloquently posting this same sentiment?

I'm glad he finally has come to the same place that lots of other people have been for a while. Oh holy day!

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I completely agree with you.

So, if/when I look back through the Ferguson threads et al, I will find you eloquently posting this same sentiment?

At some point I determined that there was enough evidence of imminent danger that it was justified. I don't know at what point that was.

I think it's likely justified here as well, based on what I know of the situation, but I want to see the results of the investigation.

Edited by jonessed
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I won't try to quote that reply (neat board) but agree we need to see the results of the investigation. I don't think that's going to be anytime soon judging from the press conference today.

For perspective, Burns, Oregon might as well be on the moon. I've been to almost every corner of this state over the last 20 years, but I've never been there. It would take forever a day to get there. It's only in the news for its extreme weather. This sort of media attention is foreign to them. The sheriff was emotional today at the presser. This isn't what he wanted to deal with ever in this job.

I don't know if it is a mandate that all LE vehicles have dashboard cams, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that there wasn't one rolling here; certainly not one with HD resolution and ability to distinguish between the commotion. It's a rural, rustic, remote region of our country that is hell and gone from anything resembling a big city. I think we're going to be waiting a while for clarity.

Edited by General Malaise
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Armed would be on your person. Cops shouldn't be shooting people that aren't an imminent threat regardless of what they may say or may have previously said (or done for that matter).

I completely agree with you.

So, if/when I look back through the Ferguson threads et al, I will find you eloquently posting this same sentiment?

I'm glad he finally has come to the same place that lots of other people have been for a while. Oh holy day!

My opinion on that has never changed. I don't trust cops any more or less than I trust any other profession. We may draw the line differently on how we determine imminent danger or what constitutes enough evidence to prosecute someone though.

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I don't know if it is a mandate that all LE vehicles have dashboard cams, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that there wasn't one rolling here; certainly not one with HD resolution and ability to distinguish between the commotion. It's a rural, rustic, remote region of our country that is hell and gone from anything resembling a big city. I think we're going to be waiting a while for clarity.

It's absolutely insane to think that with police shootings being so heavily scrutinized for several years now, that any department would send a cop out to make an arrest that's both guaranteed to make national news and highly likely to end in a shootout without some kind of camera on them. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that it's absolutely insane.

Edited by CBusAlex
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I won't try to quote that reply (neat board) but agree we need to see the results of the investigation. I don't think that's going to be anytime soon judging from the press conference today.

For perspective, Burns, Oregon might as well be on the moon. I've been to almost every corner of this state over the last 20 years, but I've never been there. It would take forever a day to get there. It's only in the news for its extreme weather. This sort of media attention is foreign to them. The sheriff was emotional today at the presser. This isn't what he wanted to deal with ever in this job.

I don't know if it is a mandate that all LE vehicles have dashboard cams, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that there wasn't one rolling here; certainly not one with HD resolution and ability to distinguish between the commotion. It's a rural, rustic, remote region of our country that is hell and gone from anything resembling a big city. I think we're going to be waiting a while for clarity.

I think an incident like this, given that they were going to pull them over, is completely foreseeable. They're all armed. Some have stated a desire to be martyred. I would expect, then, that law enforcement is going to make sure they're completely careful to things by the book. And that's probably come down from very high up.

I don't know anything, but I would be very surprised if the cops were out of line on this one.

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Armed would be on your person. Cops shouldn't be shooting people that aren't an imminent threat regardless of what they may say or may have previously said (or done for that matter).

I completely agree with you.

So, if/when I look back through the Ferguson threads et al, I will find you eloquently posting this same sentiment?

I'm glad he finally has come to the same place that lots of other people have been for a while. Oh holy day!

My opinion on that has never changed. I don't trust cops any more or less than I trust any other profession. We may draw the line differently on how we determine imminent danger or what constitutes enough evidence to prosecute someone though.

How could law enforcement regard these people as anything other than "armed and dangerous"? The dead guy made it clear on national TV he'd prefer death over arrest.

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Was happy to see that Ammon Bundy and his brother Al got busted last night for being general weasels along with a bunch of their hillbilly cohorts. What was entertaining was the mug shots (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/us/oregon-standoff.html). which looked like some incestial Brady Bunch meets alternative Big Love thing. What I couldn't quite figure out though was why there were these little sun icons on the bottom right hand corner of all their photos were, is this some kind of militia ranking like being a four star general??

Anyway decided to rank them in terms of crazy

8- 2nd Row, 2nd from the left.

Maybe he is fooling me but that dude looks like the most normal Brady although you know what they say about guys with beards.

7- 1st Row, 1st from the left.

This might be Bundy but he looks like he could pump my gas and I wouldn't freak the f out

6- 1st row, 2nd from the left.

Yeah the weird crooked smile is wacky but he looks a bit like that hick Simpson character, which means he can't be all bad

5- 2nd Row, 4th from left

He looks like Ron Jeremy meets Peppa Pig so at least he probably keeps the cow satisfied sitting in Hollywood Square seat

4- 1st row 4th from the left

This chick didn't need all those free used dildos they kept sending over to that outpost with these studs around

3- 2nd row, 1st from the left

This is some kind of Vern Schillinger kind of psycho but still better than

2-1st row, 3rd from the left

This dude looks like he would rip your head off and then shove it up your five hole and then go in their mouth first to retrieve it but he is still not as scary as

1- 2nd row, 3rd from the left

There is a reason the Times did not give him a sun ribbon. This dude gives Row 1, 3rd from left nightmares and keeps 2nd row 4th from the left from getting it up.

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Was happy to see that Ammon Bundy and his brother Al got busted last night for being general weasels along with a bunch of their hillbilly cohorts. What was entertaining was the mug shots (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/us/oregon-standoff.html). which looked like some incestial Brady Bunch meets alternative Big Love thing. What I couldn't quite figure out though was why there were these little sun icons on the bottom right hand corner of all their photos were, is this some kind of militia ranking like being a four star general??

I think that mark is from the law enforcement division that took the pictures. Sheriff's office I believe. Notice the guy arrested in Arizona doesn't have one.

Edited by PlasmaDogPlasma
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I won't try to quote that reply (neat board) but agree we need to see the results of the investigation. I don't think that's going to be anytime soon judging from the press conference today.

For perspective, Burns, Oregon might as well be on the moon. I've been to almost every corner of this state over the last 20 years, but I've never been there. It would take forever a day to get there. It's only in the news for its extreme weather. This sort of media attention is foreign to them. The sheriff was emotional today at the presser. This isn't what he wanted to deal with ever in this job.

I don't know if it is a mandate that all LE vehicles have dashboard cams, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that there wasn't one rolling here; certainly not one with HD resolution and ability to distinguish between the commotion. It's a rural, rustic, remote region of our country that is hell and gone from anything resembling a big city. I think we're going to be waiting a while for clarity.

I think an incident like this, given that they were going to pull them over, is completely foreseeable. They're all armed. Some have stated a desire to be martyred. I would expect, then, that law enforcement is going to make sure they're completely careful to things by the book. And that's probably come down from very high up.

I don't know anything, but I would be very surprised if the cops were out of line on this one.

:goodposting: Judge.

The cops had to know this arrest would be front page news, no way they would do anything that could be questioned after the fact.

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