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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (4 Viewers)

The Gibson fumble was obviously costly (and he has a history of carrying the ball loosely like he was on that play - he even had another fumble earlier in the game that luckily went out of bounds), but overall I liked what he did and how he was used. I'm excited to see them feature him. He had 20 carries and five targets. I think the ideal would probably be a few less carries and a few more targets, but I like what they did there.

How they used McLaurin, though, was frustrating. IIRC, zero first half targets, four targets on first two drives of second half (resulting in four catches for 62 yards and the team getting a TD and a FGA and having the lead), and then zero targets the rest of the game. Maybe SD took him away and they were right for not targeting him more, but it seems like so many teams can find a way to target their top receiver way more often than we can with Terry. Then again, they also just didn't have the ball and didn't run many plays. WFT ran 49 plays; Justin Herbert dropped back 49 times.

The defense was a mixed bag, to me. Overall, have to be happy with 20 points against SD. Some classic bend-but-don't-break play yesterday and one of the SD TDs was a three yard drive (that took three plays) after the Gibson fumble. But they were obviously atrocious on third down and, as mentioned by others, that 3rd and 16 was a killer. Looked to me like Bostic didn't get deep enough. No idea why he's staying so shallow on a flat route rather than dropping deeper in that situation. I think the pass rush is getting knocked a little too much. Herbert was getting rid of it quickly, especially early in the game. There needed to be some tighter coverage right off the snap to make Herbert hesitate or move to his second or third read; that might have given the DL time to get pressure. And any time he saw he had one-on-one against St-Juste, he just got rid of it almost immediately. The pass rush really just didn't have much of a chance.

I like whoever this guy is returning kicks. Way better than most of the guys we've had back there for year. He seems to want to do that job. He looked upset on one touchback because I think he really wanted a chance to return it.

This Giants game will probably give some indication of whether we should have hope or not.

 
Brunell4MVP said:
I have forever been a proponent of playing hard in the preseason to have players game ready.  Put them in 1-2 quarters per game and they have to put up at least 10 points.  We've had several coaches in a row that don't give a crap about preseason, and the team comes out totally flat.  And the OL and DL are completely unprepared for being physical.  If the team is  prepared and game ready you basically get off to a 2-0 start since you are in rhythm.  I fail to understand how Ron, Gruden, etc play guys for like 10 mins the entire preseason and expects anything other than failure (Aaron Rodgers another case in point yesterday with his QBR of 13).  Starting a season strong may not be as important as finishing strong, but the wins are there for the taking.  And to me it make guys more injury prone because they aren't absorbing hits and working out all the scheme details .. the type of details that resulted in Fitz getting clobbered then entire time he was in there.  You only get 17 games.  We aren't talking 82 or 162 game seasons like other leagues.  17 games.  You have to come out of the gate completely in synch.  The WFT hasn't in many man years.  I mean Spurrier went full bore in preseason, but he had some horrible talent evaluation.  We have talent.  It was just completely ill-prepared for a full speed game. 
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I tend to agree with you but LAC played nobody in the preseason.  At all.  So that wasn't the difference.

 
Brunell4MVP said:
We've had several coaches in a row that don't give a crap about preseason, and the team comes out totally flat.  And the OL and DL are completely unprepared for being physical. 
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I'm tired of seeing the team come out flat also.

And Gibson's fumble killed this game. They had a decent shot winning it without that disaster.

 
fatness said:
I'm tired of seeing the team come out flat also.

And Gibson's fumble killed this game. They had a decent shot winning it without that disaster.
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This. That type of fumble and ball protection is unacceptable. If Coach Hoody was here Gibson would be buried on the bench after that.

 
facook said:
I tend to agree with you but LAC played nobody in the preseason.  At all.  So that wasn't the difference.
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Everybody in Philly media crucified the Eagles for not playing anyone in the preseason either. I dont think a dozen snaps in a preseason game have a ton of impact. Preparation in practice is where the difference lies.

 
I thought after the WFT scored the touchdown in the 3rd quarter, the play calling became a lot more run oriented and it was significantly less effective.  Did other see it that way?

 
Marvelous said:
I thought after the WFT scored the touchdown in the 3rd quarter, the play calling became a lot more run oriented and it was significantly less effective.  Did other see it that way?
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Taking a look at the play-by-play after the TD...

They had a good next drive going for a while and the run was working. On that next drive, Gibson had runs of: 6, 6, 6, 6, 3, and 5. Then Scherff gets a holding penalty, Heinicke hits McLaurin for 17, Gibson loses 2 (the play after the facemask/horsecollar Gibson run was canceled out), and then a Scherff false start. Scherff really hurt them on this drive with two penalties. Now they are at 3rd and 10 at the SD 31 and they throw a -2 yard pass to Brown who is tackled immediately, leading to a missed long FG.

Next drive is one play and the Gibson fumble.

Next drive was a decent one that included runs by Gibson of 6, 2, and 5 and runs by Patterson of 4 and 5. There was plenty of time so they kept running with some success. They had 2nd and 5 at the SD 38 when Humphries got a 15 yard penalty (low block on a quick pass to Brown). On that drive, Heinicke was 1-2 for 4 yards. He had another incomplete pass on the roughing the passer call that kept the drive going and completed that quick pass to Brown for zero yards that was negated because of the Humphries penalty. He also scrambled for 9. Then, as we know, they had 4th and 7 on the SD 40, punted, and never got the ball back.

So, yes, it was run heavy but I assume that was the game plan, it was working, and time wasn't a factor.

 
How's the injuries for Washington? Giants look like a mess but for some reason Jones is undefeated against you guys. Trying to see if the short week helps Wash or NYG.

 
Insein said:
How's the injuries for Washington? Giants look like a mess but for some reason Jones is undefeated against you guys. Trying to see if the short week helps Wash or NYG.
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Beyond the obvious one to Fitz, we are so far pretty healthy. The fact that a horrible QB like Jones is undefeated against us just shows the ineptitude of this franchise. That being said, one of those losses gifted us Chase Young at their expense, so I can’t really complain. 

The loss of Fitz isn’t big imo, as Hienecke looked better than him last Sunday anyway. And given our suspect line, someone who can play outside the pocket like Taylor works in our favor. If we can’t beat this horrible Giants team on Thursday, the season might as well be over and we start looking at draft order. 

 
Any idea what's going on with Gibson? I read that he injured his shoulder but can't get an idea how serious the injury is.

 
The team is playing defense wrong, the same way they did last year and many previous years --- bend but don't break, let the opponent rack up yards and TOP but try to stop them in the red zone. That leaves the team's considerably-challenged offense with too little time to score enough points to consistently win. If they had a strong offense it would be different, but they do not. This is how they played last year when they lost more than they won. And with all the defensive talent and effort (both of which are there), they are still playing that way. 

The offense had the ball for 23:57 on Sunday. They lost. This is beyond repetitive. Del Rio's strategy is costing them games. 

 
dgreen said:
They had a good next drive going for a while and the run was working. On that next drive, Gibson had runs of: 6, 6, 6, 6, 3, and 5. Then Scherff gets a holding penalty, Heinicke hits McLaurin for 17, Gibson loses 2 (the play after the facemask/horsecollar Gibson run was canceled out), and then a Scherff false start. Scherff really hurt them on this drive with two penalties.
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Scherff led the d-line in penalties last year I believe, passing Moses who was widely criticized for a couple years for committing too many penalties. In the offseason if the team wanted to part with one of them it should have been Scherff, not Moses. 

 
fatness said:
Scherff led the d-line in penalties last year I believe, passing Moses who was widely criticized for a couple years for committing too many penalties. In the offseason if the team wanted to part with one of them it should have been Scherff, not Moses. 
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Good point. And Scherff is almost certianly walking next year anyway. I didn't think this team could again handle a contract extension as bad as Cousins, but here we are. 

 
fatness said:
The team is playing defense wrong, the same way they did last year and many previous years --- bend but don't break, let the opponent rack up yards and TOP but try to stop them in the red zone. That leaves the team's considerably-challenged offense with too little time to score enough points to consistently win. If they had a strong offense it would be different, but they do not. This is how they played last year when they lost more than they won. And with all the defensive talent and effort (both of which are there), they are still playing that way. 

The offense had the ball for 23:57 on Sunday. They lost. This is beyond repetitive. Del Rio's strategy is costing them games.
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All summer long we were hearing how great the offense is going to be with Fitz/Terry/Samuel/Gibson/Logan.  40% gone after Week 1, back to 2020 offensive personnel.

Honestly, the defense looked like #### this week, and if not for a couple of timely red zone plays they would have been blown out.

 
fatness said:
The team is playing defense wrong, the same way they did last year and many previous years --- bend but don't break, let the opponent rack up yards and TOP but try to stop them in the red zone. That leaves the team's considerably-challenged offense with too little time to score enough points to consistently win. If they had a strong offense it would be different, but they do not. This is how they played last year when they lost more than they won. And with all the defensive talent and effort (both of which are there), they are still playing that way. 

The offense had the ball for 23:57 on Sunday. They lost. This is beyond repetitive. Del Rio's strategy is costing them games. 
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Great post. It’s true and a big reason why the jury is still out on how good this defense can be. While we all like the individual talent, they have yet to show they have the right scheme to make it work. Last year’s numbers were heavily skewed by the total clown car of QBs they faced. Once they faced great tacticians like Brady and to a lesser extent Herbert, they’ve gotten sliced to pieces. 
It’s definitely going to be a work in progress, but they better start to figure out things quick because we are facing a murderer’s row of QBs this season.

 
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Oh Dustin.  That was a sloppy game.  D looked awful.  Taylor played a decent game though.  But why throw it at the end and not run down the clock?  Curious who made that call. 
 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Oh Dustin.  That was a sloppy game.  D looked awful.  Taylor played a decent game though.  But why throw it at the end and not run down the clock?  Curious who made that call. 
 
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Yeah, I hated that call. Wins are good, especially in the division but they do need to improve. 

 
facook said:
xenon said:
Are they for sure be a top 5 fantasy DEF?

and would anybody prefer WAS over PIT, LAR, or TB? 
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Nope.  I snagged them off the WW in dynasty near the end of last year to stash for this year, thinking that pass rush would be deadly.  And they'll be good, but the first place schedule is not doing them ANY favors.  Some very tough QB's they have to face, other than the Giants.  And one of the Giants games is week 18.  I'm going to hold on for the first few to see if they are transcendent but won't be afraid to start streaming in week 3 or 4.
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Sigh.

 
tangfoot said:
4 sacks and zero turnovers against the most turnover-prone QB in the league just ain't going to cut the mustard.
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This defense is truly looking like paper tigers at this point. Don’t love the scheme they are running, but they need to figure things out. Letting Danny Jones consistently destroy you is totally embarrassing.

 
yea.  i want to think part of it is shorter preseason.  i think they will improve but man they do need to improve alot.  Coaching and discipline also needs to be better. 

 
MikeApf said:
Heinicke is for real.

Our defensive is attrocious.

Who predicted that combination pre-season?
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im not ready to say hes for real.  I like what he did but its going to be more difficult when teams have more tape on him.  And alot of his balls were high and he was staring wrs down.  but its tough and cool under pressure which is important.  Lets see how he does over the next 6 weeks.

 
I've got to admit Thursday's game was entertaining. Not good, but entertaining. It was like the Politeness Bowl.

"You're hosting us today and we appreciate it, so you win."

"No, you're our guest and letting you win is part of showing you a good time."

"No, we couldn't possibly do that. You win."

"Thank you, but we insist that you win." *botch field goal*

"You've been most gracious hosts, but we cannot accept the win." *penalty*

 
Heinicke really does move the offense but man does he have a lot to learn. His ball placement, though good, needs to get better. McLauren made so many leaping catches because the ball was always slightly behind him.

And the defense is flat out disappointing. No turnovers, getting fooled time after time by misdirection plays and having no containment on the back side. Allen was the only d-lineman who looked to me like he had a good game. Jamin Davis is really raw and isn't at all impactful yet.

The Giants are a bad team, and Washington was only 1 point better. Still, we finally beat the Awesome Daniel Jones, so there's that.

 
That was a pretty solid thumping from the Bills.

Not sure what is going on with the defense, but that is 3 straight games with little pass rush.

 
Marvelous said:
Not sure what is going on with the defense, but that is 3 straight games with little pass rush.
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There is constant confusion in the secondary, repeated plays with a DB releasing a WR for someone else to cover and that someone else not being there. They play zone defense like they're guarding a spot instead of guarding any receiver coming into that area. The pass rush is ineffective except for John Allen. Chase Young is lost, quickly beating a man, getting to a spot the ball or QB just left, and now he's bailing out on chasing the play down.

That's a start of what's wrong.

The effort is there. The players are good enough. The defensive play is horrible, so that falls on bad coaching.

They can paper it over with a win against Atlanta next week but then the brutal schedule starts and, playing like this, they're going to get taken apart.

 
David Aldrige in The Athletic

Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll stayed ahead of his Washington counterpart, defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio, all day, with his formations beating Del Rio’s coverages. Worse, Daboll’s unit was light years ahead of Del Rio’s in on-field execution, starting with converting a third-and-15 on Buffalo’s first drive — which started the Bills toward a touchdown on their first possession, marking the third straight game Washington’s defense has given up seven on the first series. Again, Washington couldn’t get off the field when it mattered; again, the front four that got so much hype coming into the season didn’t lay a glove on the quarterback.

Buffalo was 9 of 15 on third down Sunday. Through three weeks this season, teams are a collective 27 of 46 (.587) on that down against Washington. Per StatMuse, the worst single-season third-down percentage allowed is .567 by the Saints in 2011.
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One thought on the game:  the play when Scherff was injured, why is all that crap lying at the base of the wall?  Scherff was off balance going to the wall.  It sure would have helped him if he could keep his feet under.  Instead, all these boxes are there and he goes into the wall without his feet under him.  That is just crazy.

 
I listened to a brief interview with Chase Young today. Everyone knows, and he knows, there's a lot of criticism of the defense. He talked only in generalities and got softball questions. He wasn't asked "why do you keep letting tackles steer you out of the play?" When asked about del Rio he was so overboard in his defense of the guy that it was clear he (Chase) did not want blame placed on himself or del Rio. After 3 games they're in CYA mode. 

Judging by attendance I think we've finally reached the point where nobody gives a #### anymore about this team. 

 
Need to get out of Atlanta with a W in the worst way. If we can win that game ( it sucks writing 'if' when it comes to the Falcons (sorry, Falcons fans), but it's a road game, which ups the challenge, and with how we look currently, anything's possible), I see a plausible pathway to defeating the Saints here at home to get to 3-2, but boy does it look daunting after that...the only good thing about facing the Chiefs is that it's here, and is a 2nd consecutive home game. At Packers is horrible, At Broncos is never easy, and they actually look decent. Only thing good about facing the Bucs is that it's here, and we're coming out of our Bye Week. Ron's homecoming at Carolina isn't going to be a cakewalk. Only thing good about facing Seahawks is that it's here, but it's primetime MNF. At Vegas won't be easy. Then we have those 5 straight Divisional games. Based on how we played the Giants, that's anybody's guess. Think we're good enough to split with Eagles. Don't look good enough to beat Cowboys.

Going into Training Camp, given the schedule we earned courtesy of 2020, I felt a realistic goal was to achieve the same record in 2021 (7-8 wins) was a reasonable expectation, and reason for optimism. Big things coming in 2022. Now that we're in it, I'm struggling to find 7, let alone 8, wins.

That sucks.

 
John Keim @john_keim · 2h

Rivera said Curtis Samuel looked good, but said they have time to decide if to activate him or not. Said Samuel "showed his speed". Also said they'd increase his work tomorrow. Rivera: "He's an impact player, the kind of guy you want on the field."
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I'll be surprised if they get more than 5 games out of Samuel.

 
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fatness said:
I listened to a brief interview with Chase Young today. Everyone knows, and he knows, there's a lot of criticism of the defense. He talked only in generalities and got softball questions. He wasn't asked "why do you keep letting tackles steer you out of the play?" When asked about del Rio he was so overboard in his defense of the guy that it was clear he (Chase) did not want blame placed on himself or del Rio. After 3 games they're in CYA mode. 

Judging by attendance I think we've finally reached the point where nobody gives a #### anymore about this team. 
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At some point, these guys have  to have some pride kick in right? I mean, underachieving at this level. They are professionals. You figure sooner or later you have to say "enough is enough" and start playing up to the level you at least THINK you are capable of. If out of embarrassment if nothing else. No one WANTS to be the kid getting their arses kicked around the playground every day at lunch.

 
This was inevitable. Defense ended last year feeling themselves and thought with all the talent they had on the defensive line that they could just show up and dominate. Last place schedule. 
 

This year they play a first place schedule that includes a murderers row of QBs and in today’s NFL you’re gonna get torched. Analytics now say it’s better to have a good secondary than a pass rush so all that beef up front is for naught of the back end is soft. 
 

Im not piling on, just calling it how I see it. I still have high regard for your HC and I think you have what you need in your young QB. Just need to run the ball more. 

Next season you’ll have more talent, players who are more hungry and in shape and most importantly, a last place schedule. 
 

 
DallasDMac said:
At some point, these guys have  to have some pride kick in right? I mean, underachieving at this level. They are professionals. You figure sooner or later you have to say "enough is enough" and start playing up to the level you at least THINK you are capable of. If out of embarrassment if nothing else. No one WANTS to be the kid getting their arses kicked around the playground every day at lunch.
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I kind of agree with you, but...... everyone in the NFL has ability. And even using that ability to the max isn't enough to cut it if the players do not know what to do. NFL players with ability who are well-coached and held accountable play better than NFL players with ability who are not.

I don't see any new development of skills from last year to this year on the d-line. I don't see Chase Young using a variety of moves, for example. I don't see the LB's and secondary knowing when to hand off a receiver to someone else to cover, or when to pick of a receiver someone else is handing off. I see 2 defenders going to the same gap while an RB rushes through another undefended gap. Something's going terribly wrong, and it's not lack of effort. Either all the players are just stupid (and they've chosen the wrong players) or they're not being coached well, expecially on defense. The talent level on the defense is higher but they're playing worse than the offense.

 
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fatness said:
I kind of agree with you, but...... everyone in the NFL has ability. And even using that ability to the max isn't enough to cut it if the players do not know what to do. NFL players with ability who are well-coached and held accountable play better than NFL players with ability who are not.

I don't see any new development of skills from last year to this year on the d-line. I don't see Chase Young using a variety of moves, for example. I don't see the LB's and secondary knowing when to hand off a receiver to someone else to cover, or when to pick of a receiver someone else is handing off. I see 2 defenders going to the same gap while an RB rushes through another undefended gap. Something's going terribly wrong, and it's not lack of effort. Either all the players are just stupid (and they've chosen the wrong players) or they're not being coached well, expecially on defense. The talent level on the defense is higher but they're playing worse than the offense.
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Everything i read and seen indicates alot of the issues are that players are kind of going rogue instead of playing their roles in the defense.  Chase too.  This is on the players and the coaches.  But they need them to buy into the system and play their roles.  Otherwise the system wont work.  sounds easier though than it is.  But maybe a brutal loss will knock some sense into them and have them do better.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Everything i read and seen indicates alot of the issues are that players are kind of going rogue instead of playing their roles in the defense.  Chase too.  This is on the players and the coaches.  But they need them to buy into the system and play their roles.  Otherwise the system wont work.  sounds easier though than it is.  But maybe a brutal loss will knock some sense into them and have them do better.
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Yep, the defense is suffering from "LaVar Arrington Syndrome".    

 
Very similar themes:

1.  Heinicke a gamer who pulled the game out.

2.  Attrocious defense.  Atlanta 10-16 on third downs, including multiple 3 and longs?  GTFO of here.

3.  Hopkins shaky.

If we knew what the issue was on defense...guys not playing their assignments and communicating, then they either tuned the coaches out last week or were too stupid to get it.  Guys were running free in the secondary.  Plus, now there are fundamental problems...guys can't even make a tackle with the game on the line.  Rivera may need to put the hammer down on these guys.

Ironically, quarterback play has saved our season so far.  He's not perfect, but Heinicke is a baller and he gives us a chance to win.  Ironically, if we had a decent defense, we may actually be an above average team...

And yeah, it's time to bring in competitioin for Hopkins.

Don't know whether to be happy or frustrated this morning.  Honestly, both...

 
MikeApf said:
If we knew what the issue was on defense...guys not playing their assignments and communicating, then they either tuned the coaches out last week or were too stupid to get it.  Guys were running free in the secondary.  Plus, now there are fundamental problems...guys can't even make a tackle with the game on the line.  Rivera may need to put the hammer down on these guys.
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When there are that many issues in that many consecutive weeks on the defense, the reason is coaching. It's not like the defensive players en masse got stupider. It's not like they decided they all knew better than their coaches. It's not like they all decided not to give a crap. 

 
I was away last weekend and couldn't watch the game, but I did watch most of NO's loss to the Giants. NO was very conservative offensively, ran a lot, and I think it cost them the game. Hoping that continues this week. 

 
fatness said:
When there are that many issues in that many consecutive weeks on the defense, the reason is coaching. It's not like the defensive players en masse got stupider. It's not like they decided they all knew better than their coaches. It's not like they all decided not to give a crap. 
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What I can't figure out is Jack Del Rio has a pretty solid track record as a defensive coordinator.  You can say that the players didn't become stupid overnight (which I agree, the guys aren't stupid), but using the exact same logic, you could say that Jack Del Rio didn't become a bottom 5 defensive coordinator overnight either. 

When players are out of position constantly or do not communicate, and we say it is coaching, what exactly does that mean?  Are we honestly arguing the JDR doesn't know defense well enough to teach scheme or communication?  That doesn't seem credible to me, given his track record.  Also, it's kind of hard to say,  "the scheme doesn't work" until the players actually implement the scheme, so we can see whether it works and doesn't work.  As far as I'm seeing and reading, they are not doing that yet.

Mind you, I do agree with you that the players are not stupid and they definitely want to win.  Maybe something is up culture wise between the coaches and the players -- a disagreement or something.  I dont' know anything of course, but I'm not ready to just say the players are all A+ but the DC sucks and that's the problem. 

I dunno maybe JDR needs to simplify the scheme and sort of strip out opportunities for players to misinterpret or misunderstand aspects of the defense?  

 
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