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Deshaun Watson - In Limbo with no real news happening, speculation & rumours filling the thread


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And now you see why women are hesitant to come forward, you have 13 of them saying the same thing and still there is a not insignificant amount of people who assume they are just trying to hustle a bu

I find it humorous that some people think it's just an easy thing for a woman to lie about something like this about a high profile person, let alone finding 15+.  Like they just decide they're lookin

Any word on Bill Cosby?

2 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

From talking about 3 1st rders to no interest......what a disaster....Hou on the clock for 2022 #1

...and probably 2023 with that train wreck.

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16 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

From talking about 3 1st rders to no interest......what a disaster....Hou on the clock for 2022 #1

They weren't going to trade him most likely no matter what

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57 minutes ago, zeeshan2 said:

They weren't going to trade him most likely no matter what

Based on what? The Texans saying they weren't? My guess is they were playing hard to get to try to drive the price up. The fact is you had two teams in the same division with multiple first round picks, one who desperately needs a franchise QB, and one who went 10-6 with a Fitzpatrick/rookie Tua combo at QB which Deshaun would be a significant upgrade over. Plus other teams (The Panthers, Broncos, and Bears) who appeared ready to give away the store to get Watson. Without the sexual harrassment lawsuits, the Texans would have been offered the biggest package for a franchise QB ever. If you assume that he is serious about never playing for the Texans again, the Texans would have been morons NOT to trade him before this draft. Waiting a year to trade him doesn't make as much sense because a) you lose a year to start your rebuild b) the market for Deshaun would at best be the same as this year but most likely would be worse and c) the salary cap implications are easier for the team trading for Deshaun this year, with a $10 million base salary, as opposed to next year, when his base salary goes up to $35 million.

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Just now, dhockster said:

Based on what? The Texans saying they weren't? My guess is they were playing hard to get to try to drive the price up. The fact is you had two teams in the same division with multiple first round picks, one who desperately needs a franchise QB, and one who went 10-6 with a Fitzpatrick/rookie Tua combo at QB which Deshaun would be a significant upgrade over. Plus other teams (The Panthers, Broncos, and Bears) who appeared ready to give away the store to get Watson. Without the sexual harrassment lawsuits, the Texans would have been offered the biggest package for a franchise QB ever. If you assume that he is serious about never playing for the Texans again, the Texans would have been morons NOT to trade him before this draft. Waiting a year to trade him doesn't make as much sense because a) you lose a year to start your rebuild b) the market for Deshaun would at best be the same as this year but most likely would be worse and c) the salary cap implications are easier for the team trading for Deshaun this year, with a $10 million base salary, as opposed to next year, when his base salary goes up to $35 million.

I mean there were reports that 8 teams were interested in him and whatnot but to start over at QB and just give up a Top 5-10 QB to me is asinine. 

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1 minute ago, zeeshan2 said:

I mean there were reports that 8 teams were interested in him and whatnot but to start over at QB and just give up a Top 5-10 QB to me is asinine. 

I agree, but the offseason was so mismanaged, I believe him when he said he was going to sit out this season. A franchise QB is not worth a whole lot if he won't play for your team.

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I think they had every intention of trading him in the days leading up to the draft in the hopes that would drive the price up. Some teams would have dropped out along the way and made some of the moves we’ve already seen at QB but there would have been a huge market for him.

Now they have to hope they can patch things up (maybe that’s possible if other teams consider him radioactive) or that this time next year his legal issues have been either resolved/settled or at least not at the news forefront anymore and they can trade him prior to the 2022 draft.

Edit: Either way I still think it’s unlikely he plays a game in 2021 thru some combo of Exempt List, suspension and/or holdout.

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On 5/1/2021 at 8:35 AM, Faust said:

There is no way the Texans are cutting Deshaun which this article cites as a possibility. First, they would be giving up a major asset with nothing in return, and second, the salary cap hit would be ridiculous. So that leaves them trying to get him to play for them or trading him. I think the ship has sailed on Deshaun playing in Houston as he stated he would never play for them again before the lawsuits came out, and now that the lawsuits are out, the Texans may not want Deshaun to be the face of the franchise anymore. So that leaves trading him. Until the lawsuits are resolved, nobody is going to trade for Deshaun unless they are only giving up pennies on the dollar. Because the courts are so backed up in Houston due first to Hurricane Harvey in 2017 (the courthouse was flooded), and then due to the pandemic, Deshaun's case might not be heard for two or three years. It is in nobody's best interest to wait that long for this situation to get cleared up. The lawyers on both sides have been very quiet for almost two weeks which to me indicates that they may be working together to try to settle this thing. If they come to agreement in the next couple of months, then the NFL can determine what penalties, if any, to dole out, and then teams can trade for him, knowing what contingencies are involved. While I don't think the Texans will ultimately get what they could have gotten this year for him, due to the lawsuits, I think any team with multiple first round picks in 2022 will be in the running. If Jalen Hurts doesn't pan out for the Eagles, then I could see them being frontrunners for Deshaun as their pick will be a high one, and then they have the Dolphins #1 pick and potentially the Colts #1 pick if Wentz reaches some benchmarks in 2021.

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1 hour ago, dhockster said:

There is no way the Texans are cutting Deshaun which this article cites as a possibility. First, they would be giving up a major asset with nothing in return, and second, the salary cap hit would be ridiculous. So that leaves them trying to get him to play for them or trading him. I think the ship has sailed on Deshaun playing in Houston as he stated he would never play for them again before the lawsuits came out, and now that the lawsuits are out, the Texans may not want Deshaun to be the face of the franchise anymore. So that leaves trading him. Until the lawsuits are resolved, nobody is going to trade for Deshaun unless they are only giving up pennies on the dollar. Because the courts are so backed up in Houston due first to Hurricane Harvey in 2017 (the courthouse was flooded), and then due to the pandemic, Deshaun's case might not be heard for two or three years. It is in nobody's best interest to wait that long for this situation to get cleared up. The lawyers on both sides have been very quiet for almost two weeks which to me indicates that they may be working together to try to settle this thing. If they come to agreement in the next couple of months, then the NFL can determine what penalties, if any, to dole out, and then teams can trade for him, knowing what contingencies are involved. While I don't think the Texans will ultimately get what they could have gotten this year for him, due to the lawsuits, I think any team with multiple first round picks in 2022 will be in the running. If Jalen Hurts doesn't pan out for the Eagles, then I could see them being frontrunners for Deshaun as their pick will be a high one, and then they have the Dolphins #1 pick and potentially the Colts #1 pick if Wentz reaches some benchmarks in 2021.

I guess I kind of disagree.....not sure ANY team wants him as the face of their franchise....even if he "settles"....because for most "settling" equals guilty....as a GM would you hang your hat on trading for this guy if he "settles".....don't think so....and you sure as heck aren't giving up a first rounder for him and taking on his massive contract and the ongoing "risk" of something else popping up...so IMO that in many ways also eliminates getting traded.....

he should tuck tail and thank his lucky stars if HOU considered keeping him in any way.....that may be the only option and would probably involve him agreeing to take a massive pay cut and pay back some bonus money or something....in addition to some type of treatment or something....he would probably have to agree to that anyway IF there was a trading partner that would give up anything for him.....

I actually do think at some point HOU may have to say we just need to go ahead and take the hit and cut our losses....chalk it up to something they just did not see coming....the loss would be brutal financially and devastating for the franchise, but they would save face and could hang their hat on that they "did the right thing".....maybe he even agrees to some of the above so that they will cut him and let him become a free agent and roll his dice....give them back some money, let them out of the contract so he could be free...and roll the dice if someone is willing to sign him....

its such a weird situation because almost every ending scenario has holes in it.....(assuming he isn't found completely innocent and all this was made up)....

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48 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I guess I kind of disagree.....not sure ANY team wants him as the face of their franchise....even if he "settles"....because for most "settling" equals guilty....as a GM would you hang your hat on trading for this guy if he "settles".....don't think so....and you sure as heck aren't giving up a first rounder for him and taking on his massive contract and the ongoing "risk" of something else popping up...so IMO that in many ways also eliminates getting traded.....

he should tuck tail and thank his lucky stars if HOU considered keeping him in any way.....that may be the only option and would probably involve him agreeing to take a massive pay cut and pay back some bonus money or something....in addition to some type of treatment or something....he would probably have to agree to that anyway IF there was a trading partner that would give up anything for him.....

I actually do think at some point HOU may have to say we just need to go ahead and take the hit and cut our losses....chalk it up to something they just did not see coming....the loss would be brutal financially and devastating for the franchise, but they would save face and could hang their hat on that they "did the right thing".....maybe he even agrees to some of the above so that they will cut him and let him become a free agent and roll his dice....give them back some money, let them out of the contract so he could be free...and roll the dice if someone is willing to sign him....

its such a weird situation because almost every ending scenario has holes in it.....(assuming he isn't found completely innocent and all this was made up)....

I think different owners tolerate different behavior from their players. The McNairs are pretty conservative as owners go. Part of the reason they drafted David Carr in 2002 was because he was a young family man who shared similar morals and could be the face of the franchise. Do you really think someone like Robert Kraft would have a problem with Deshaun on his team? How about Daniel Snyder? I think owners are willing to ignore a multitude of flaws from a player IF they have the talent to bring the owner a championship. If you surround Deshaun with enough good players, I think he is one of those guys. I would be shocked if once these lawsuits are settled, no one trades for Deshaun. 

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29 minutes ago, dhockster said:

I think different owners tolerate different behavior from their players. The McNairs are pretty conservative as owners go. Part of the reason they drafted David Carr in 2002 was because he was a young family man who shared similar morals and could be the face of the franchise. Do you really think someone like Robert Kraft would have a problem with Deshaun on his team? How about Daniel Snyder? I think owners are willing to ignore a multitude of flaws from a player IF they have the talent to bring the owner a championship. If you surround Deshaun with enough good players, I think he is one of those guys. I would be shocked if once these lawsuits are settled, no one trades for Deshaun. 

yes and yes....if the allegations are shown to be true or he settles this one feels different because of the nature of the allegations and more importantly the volume....it doesn't appear to be just a one time thing/mistake after a night of drinking or something....

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All great points.  Fascinating.  I think WATSON needs to do 1 thing.  WIN.  Winning will solve his problems and WINNING is his out. I don't know what he has to to do to get on a field and WIN but he should find a way to do that.  It worked for VICK, KOBE, Antonio Brown, Robert Kraft. People still support Michael Jackson and R Kelly.  Mike Tyson.   I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that people are way more forgiving if you're creating success.   List goes on.   Houston should offer to pay whatever the lawyer is asking in exchange for first 8 games of the season if he wins 6 he gets to be traded. Something like that.  

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13 hours ago, DirtyCashDylan said:

Remember when he was having all that sex? I'm glad we finally forgave him for it

We eventually got over our jealousy.

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As a Texans fan, one thing I remember reading across the past year or so when the Hopkins trade started this downhill mess for the franchise might shed some light on aspects of this as well.

Yes, I agree, Bob McNair and his wife are definitely on the more conservative tilt of things than other owners. It starts to explain how someone like Easterby could have found his way in and found his way to higher levels in the organization.

Another wrinkle is Cal McNair himself, who is now the day to day acting owner. Some beat writer noted at one point a dynamic within the building that's interesting in this situation - Something was going down and a couple of employees rushed to Cal's office to inform him, only to find him playing video games and completely unaware of what was going on or the dynamic or anything. It really spoke to how Richie Rich aloof he was about his organization and how much real day to day power he'd handed over to the likes of BOB or Easterby.

If that's true, Cal rushing to do dinners and repair relationships with Watson before all of this legal mess was likely seen as hollow as hell if you're Watson. The guy is just signing your check, whereas the real day to day leads are the ones makes the trades or doing shady things you don't like.

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2 hours ago, Jayded said:

As a Texans fan, one thing I remember reading across the past year or so when the Hopkins trade started this downhill mess for the franchise might shed some light on aspects of this as well.

Yes, I agree, Bob McNair and his wife are definitely on the more conservative tilt of things than other owners. It starts to explain how someone like Easterby could have found his way in and found his way to higher levels in the organization.

Another wrinkle is Cal McNair himself, who is now the day to day acting owner. Some beat writer noted at one point a dynamic within the building that's interesting in this situation - Something was going down and a couple of employees rushed to Cal's office to inform him, only to find him playing video games and completely unaware of what was going on or the dynamic or anything. It really spoke to how Richie Rich aloof he was about his organization and how much real day to day power he'd handed over to the likes of BOB or Easterby.

If that's true, Cal rushing to do dinners and repair relationships with Watson before all of this legal mess was likely seen as hollow as hell if you're Watson. The guy is just signing your check, whereas the real day to day leads are the ones makes the trades or doing shady things you don't like.

I don't know if this is the same story you relate above, but if not, then it appears Cal loves himself some video games:

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/sage-rosenfels-shares-incredible-story-about-texans-ceo-cal-mcnair/574470

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5 hours ago, dhockster said:

I don't know if this is the same story you relate above, but if not, then it appears Cal loves himself some video games:

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/sage-rosenfels-shares-incredible-story-about-texans-ceo-cal-mcnair/574470

Bingo, that’s the one. Now assume that guy let the coach trade your best players and comes at you surprised you’re upset. 

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I can't post a link since it was a podcast but recently heard Lance Zeirlein on a draft related podcast and he felt pretty certain that no criminal charges would be filed, that Watson would settle, and he expects him to be traded this off-season.

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

I can't post a link since it was a podcast but recently heard Lance Zeirlein on a draft related podcast and he felt pretty certain that no criminal charges would be filed, that Watson would settle, and he expects him to be traded this off-season.

Lance is a radio show host in Houston, is very knowledgeable football wise, and has pretty good sources. I would put some stock in this if this is what he thinks is going to happen.

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Can’t the Texans just let him rot at this point? Depressed trade market. They’re going to be terrible regardless.  I’d say, “play for us or don’t play at all.” 

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26 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I thought this was just a civil thing.

There's a criminal investigation but no criminal charges have been filed as of it.

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2 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

Can’t the Texans just let him rot at this point? Depressed trade market. They’re going to be terrible regardless.  I’d say, “play for us or don’t play at all.” 

At this point, I doubt Watson is playing for anybody come Week 1 - unless he decides to pay up and make the civil suits go away (which is certainly possible).

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3 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Unless he runs over a judge's dog, wife, and kids, I seriously doubt he's going to jail....

Don't forget Donte' Stallworth. He drove drunk, ran over a pedestrian and killed him. Got a 30-day jail sentence.

Vick killed dogs and spent 2 years in prison.

When it comes to the judicial system spin the wheel and take your chances.

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5 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Don't forget Donte' Stallworth. He drove drunk, ran over a pedestrian and killed him. Got a 30-day jail sentence.

Vick killed dogs and spent 2 years in prison.

When it comes to the judicial system spin the wheel and take your chances.

The pedestrian ran out into an area where pedestrians shouldn't be. Accident reconstruction suggests Stallworth responded reasonably. In other words, the pedestrian probably would have been killed by even the most sober and careful driver. Further, while Stallworth drive well above the legal limit and its fair to presume impairment, a BAC of ~.12 would not be considered "extreme" in even the harshest states. And, even in those harshest states, a regular first-time DUI may only amount to a day or so in jail. As such, Stallworth's sentence (which also included a lifetime revocation of his license and, IIRC, 1k hours of community service or something like that) could actually be considered "harsh" for what he did. Further, he agreed to a civil settlement to compensate the victim's family a lot of money. Please understand that I am in no way defending what he did or drinking and driving in general, but instead providing the proper legal context to explain the outcome. 

Historically, animal cruelty laws in most states are incredibly harsh. From a public policy and lobbying standpoint, cruelty to animals and similar issues garner a ton of public care and support (see e.g. the FFA's poll results re: saving one's dog versus an actual human) so, naturally, legislators create harsh sentences for them. Vick's sentence was therefore pretty reasonable if not lenient under the sentencing guidelines of his state. 

 

When it comes to the judicial (criminal justice) system the outcomes often result for an incredibly complicated and nuanced system with facts generally not know to the neutral public. 

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Posted (edited)

Vick financed and was one of the principals in an illegal gambling and racketeering ring that focused on dog fighting. It was a lot more than just killing a few dogs.

Edit: Although as a dog lover, that was reprehensible on its own. He admitted to participating in killing multiple dogs in some sick ways like hanging them and knowing about the killing of many others.

Edited by Buckna
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  • Faust changed the title to Deshaun Watson - In Limbo with no real news happening, speculation & rumours filling the thread

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