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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's not really a lie if you believe that it's true.
Sorry, I know that wasnt helpful at all.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No, but it was funny. At this point, I think that’s what this topic needs more of.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Hey I quoted some Dave Chappelle a few posts back!! Doesn't get funnier than that!No, but it was funny. At this point, I think that’s what this topic needs more of.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
we do have facts tho, which was what we were discussing.
Buzbee flat out lied about providing a mountain of evidence to Houston Police this past monday.
zoonation
Footballguy
If this was all made up (highly unlikely imo), Watson would beat them into the pot with a defamation suit. And it would be worth millions. Tens of millions.
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zoonation
Footballguy
Or he decided it wasn’t in his clients’ best interest. Or they don’t want to. Lots of reasons why he may not have. Means nothing.
massraider
Footballguy
Buzbee didn't meet his own deadline.
Missing a deadline is lying?
Tough crowd.
Missing a deadline is lying?
Tough crowd.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Even if it wasn't made up that might be true.
Consider this: it's known by the team & owner that he has this predilection for this particular kink. And they held back that info for [days/months/years] and when Watson demanded a trade, the owner gave the info to his fame-seeking, possibly sketchy attorney neighbor.
That's the allegation I was responding to. In that hypothetical, they conspired to ruin the guy, to great effect.
Surely that has to be actionable, regardless of whether Watson is guilty of anything or not, right? Aren't there laws for failure to report a crime? If they were award of the allegations of non-consensual contact by Watson & did not report that to the police, I'm pretty sure that's a crime.
Again: I am not saying that happened. That was a report (rumor? hot tip?) that someone shared here & I'm simply responding to the "well if that's true, then whoa" hypothetical.
Watson could both be an assailant and a victim here. It is entirely feasible.
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I wanted to wait on my 1.08 until the draft but this seemed like getting Watson on the cheap and didn’t want to wait
Got DeShaun Watson, 2022 1st, 3.05, 2022 3rd
Gave 1.08, Hamler, 4.08
Kevrunner
Footballguy
I kinda think that Watson and his attorney have been more willing and are discussing possible settlements and maybe that’s why Buzbee hasn’t pursued the criminal charges as of yet. Just the threat of doing it might be what leads to these suits being settled.
I think you did very well. If this Watson thing blows over with minimal suspension then you did very very well.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Did they start filming the 30 for 30 yet?
kittenmittens
Footballguy
This seems not all that unlikely.
My rampant speculation is that Watson is guilty of what most of the women are saying. Being gross and creepy propositioning unsuspecting masseuses. There is almost certainly no way that a possibly shady but established lawyer is cooking up totally fake cases with no real women or merit behind them.
It's the job of the plaintiffs lawyers to get as much in settlement as they can for their clients. To that end, I suspect that they will posture and do whatever they can get away with to further their case. I don't understand the nuances of how much embellishing they could reasonably get away with or how this public perception game influences settlement negotiations.
Maybe some of the claims are embellished or framed by the lawyer to be more effective at winning in the court of public opinion, and maybe they aren't. It seems like there would be incentive for this to happen so it's hard to dismiss that.
I hope it's been clear in my posting that I don't know anything and haven't reached any conclusion, just trying to reason in a way that can help predict the outcome and make the best possible fantasy moves. Pure speculation.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think that’s the most reasonable approach anyone can take.
I recall the Tyreek situation (obviously not the same circumstances, but folks said he’d never play again) when many bought low - if you’re brave & the Watson owner wants to jump ship, these are the evaluations you have to make.
Determining Watson’s value at this point from a FF perspective basically comes down to 2 things:
1. what’s the owner willing to take for a potentially declining asset?
2. How much are you willing to lose if he turns into a pumpkin?
kittenmittens
Footballguy
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Catbird
Footballguy
Buzbee doesn't pursue criminal charges. Only the DA's office can do that (or the state attorney general). If Buzbee just gave the statements of the women to the police this week, it is going to take some time for the police - who had nothing to go on before that - to follow up and investigate the facts. This will almost certainly take a while, particularly when the women live all over and will be hard to reach and interview. Investigation time between the police learning that a crime might have happened and bringing charges is normal. They can't press charges just because Buzbee says some other people told him this guy did bad things.
In the civil litigation Buzbee filed, as it winds along, both sides will be able to question the claimants on both sides under oath and at great length (depositions). Only after that will either have a very complete sense of what the other side will say and what proof they have. It would be unusual for either side to settle before all of that happens (although the huge amount of publicity here might hasten a settlement).
In the civil litigation Buzbee filed, as it winds along, both sides will be able to question the claimants on both sides under oath and at great length (depositions). Only after that will either have a very complete sense of what the other side will say and what proof they have. It would be unusual for either side to settle before all of that happens (although the huge amount of publicity here might hasten a settlement).
Synthesizer
Footballguy
There is a small amount of evidence at this time. He texted one woman to say that "he makes a lot of massage therapists uncomfortable" and he texted another woman to apologize for making her uncomfortable during the massage. Obviously that isn't enough to convict someone of a crime, but there is evidence he knows that he acts inappropriately during massages.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There is surely some evidence out there - it just comes down to how convincing/credible one finds it: those texts (assuming they exist); the NDA (assuming its real) and even the complaints filed (they require a signed verification by attorney or client). Even Watson's statement that there was consent is evidence encounters may have taken place.
I honestly have no idea at this point, as there is just way too much that doesn’t add up on either side of the case, and find it odd that anyone can feel strongly one way or the other so far - at this early stage.
Like most things the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and we may never actually know the full truth.
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massraider
Footballguy
Major
Footballguy
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
don't know you whatsoever....but you might be misreading the temperature of the majority of the room just a little...think most in here are squarely in the innocent until proven guilty camp....there may be a few skewed to one extreme or the other.....but most aren't sounding really bitter for any particular reason....most simply saying innocent until proven guilty while also just recognizing and acknowledging it doesn't look real great at this point....but we will have to wait and see....Razors Edge said:
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Thoughtfully supporting men will not get you put on ignore. It's usually the unhinged rants that will do it.Razors Edge said:
so this trade request is about him having run out of houston area massage therapists
Penguin
Footballguy
That article is pretty damning.
“The one thing I keep thinking about is, he’s about to get traded to another place,” she says. “What if he goes to Atlanta or California or anywhere else? He would have a whole new community of massage therapists to target.”
Mary* is a massage therapist who worked with Deshaun Watson in 2019. She’s not among the plaintiffs who have filed suit & is not represented by Tony Buzbee. SI reached out to her. We reviewed messages/spoke to a contemporaneous witness to verify her story:
“The one thing I keep thinking about is, he’s about to get traded to another place,” she says. “What if he goes to Atlanta or California or anywhere else? He would have a whole new community of massage therapists to target.”
Mary* is a massage therapist who worked with Deshaun Watson in 2019. She’s not among the plaintiffs who have filed suit & is not represented by Tony Buzbee. SI reached out to her. We reviewed messages/spoke to a contemporaneous witness to verify her story:
She came across as credible and in many ways I took that as really good news for Watson.
Capella
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Can’t believe how Mary’s account of what happened can be considered good news for Watson. Basically confirms what the other woman are saying, but not as awful, even though Watson offered her the opportunity to touch his unit, he didn’t force her, but that didn’t stop him from doing his weird thrusting. “This towel is “itchy”, lol, that cracked me up.
pantherclub
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
Guessing he will deny all criminal accusations, confess a sex addiction and get treated for it, publicly apologize to those he offended, pay negotiated settlements, and make a huge donation to some sort of related charity. If no criminal charges/conviction happen, he might not miss any games (at least ones he would have been willing to play in).
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I liked it better when we didn't know these things. At what point did this become important to people?
Let me explain to some of you why I said in "many ways' her account is good for him.
First let's start with what should be have been understood but seems to have passed over a few of you that in "many ways" does not mean "in totality".
"Mary' sounded very credible. She at this point has not entered into a civil suit, does not seem to want anything as of yet.
If you believe Watson is 100% not guilty of the slightest misconduct, has always behaving like a model citizen during all of his massages this would not be good news.
If you are like me and believe it's likely Watson did some things he should not have been doing, believe with this smoke there is something, but at the same time don't believe EVERYTHING everyone women is claiming this might be applicable to you.
Per her account he kept his hands to himself, he forced nothing on her, he did not try and make his penis touch her, his main offense was getting naked.
Now I'm not legal expect but forcing someone to perform oral sure sounds like rape.
Touching someone with your penis sure sounds like sexual assault.
Demonstrating a pattern of dropping your towel during a massage would at most seem to make you guilty of indecent exposure.
So when you got 20 people suing for money, some making claims of forced oral sex(rape), most making claims of him making sure his penis touched their hand(sexual assault)but one lady not wanting money or suing anyone saying his main offense was dropping his towel and improperly exposing himself.
If Watson did exactly as this lady said in all of his appointments but did NOT do what the others say he did which again ranges from rape to sexual assault then his worse offense is indecent exposure. That's what I mean this being good news for him in some ways because someone credible with nothing to gain as of now is indicating with her she did not do the things the others are accusing him of doing. And if he did what she is saying in all of his appointments he'll get suspended, might have to settle, will see his pristine image take a hit, but it's not remotely close to the damage he'd face if faced with multiple counts of rape or sexual assault.
First let's start with what should be have been understood but seems to have passed over a few of you that in "many ways" does not mean "in totality".
"Mary' sounded very credible. She at this point has not entered into a civil suit, does not seem to want anything as of yet.
If you believe Watson is 100% not guilty of the slightest misconduct, has always behaving like a model citizen during all of his massages this would not be good news.
If you are like me and believe it's likely Watson did some things he should not have been doing, believe with this smoke there is something, but at the same time don't believe EVERYTHING everyone women is claiming this might be applicable to you.
Per her account he kept his hands to himself, he forced nothing on her, he did not try and make his penis touch her, his main offense was getting naked.
Now I'm not legal expect but forcing someone to perform oral sure sounds like rape.
Touching someone with your penis sure sounds like sexual assault.
Demonstrating a pattern of dropping your towel during a massage would at most seem to make you guilty of indecent exposure.
So when you got 20 people suing for money, some making claims of forced oral sex(rape), most making claims of him making sure his penis touched their hand(sexual assault)but one lady not wanting money or suing anyone saying his main offense was dropping his towel and improperly exposing himself.
If Watson did exactly as this lady said in all of his appointments but did NOT do what the others say he did which again ranges from rape to sexual assault then his worse offense is indecent exposure. That's what I mean this being good news for him in some ways because someone credible with nothing to gain as of now is indicating with her she did not do the things the others are accusing him of doing. And if he did what she is saying in all of his appointments he'll get suspended, might have to settle, will see his pristine image take a hit, but it's not remotely close to the damage he'd face if faced with multiple counts of rape or sexual assault.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Razors Edge said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Wasnt the claim "coereced" oral sex? That's a bit different than forced.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Blame Roger.
Every incident leads to a media frenzy to figure out what the suspension should be.
That and this stuff is mildly entertaining.
The one accusation did use the term "coereced" and I think something along the lines of she blacked out and defecate on herself after which is a pretty astounding accusation to make.
I never read the other accusation but have seen stuff like this reported, one aritle I read said " Later, she says, Watson forced her mouth onto his penis, which she said left her fearing for her life."
That's some out of the league for years, looking at jail time kind of accusations.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Guessing there would need to be proof for something like that.
Defense wounds, SANE exam at the hospital afterwards.....
