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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (5 Viewers)

zoonation said:
I hear you.  But it is early days.  
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Oh, no question. I agree completely.  But when it comes to accusations like this, the only reason to Jane Doe anyone that I'm aware of is if

1. they are under-age (not applicable)

2. credible threat of danger should their ID be revealed, like testifying against the mob (don't see how that's the case with a high profile public figure like Watson) 

3. self-incrimination - this one might hold water, but not in a way that helps the accusers. 

I'm not an attorney - my pops is one, and I took 2 years of business law as part of my degree program so I know some things, but obviously we never went this deep. I do not profess to be a defense attorney. 

But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls". 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Oh, no question. I agree completely.  But when it comes to accusations like this, the only reason to Jane Doe anyone that I'm aware of is if

1. they are under-age (not applicable)

2. credible threat of danger should their ID be revealed, like testifying against the mob (don't see how that's the case with a high profile public figure like Watson) 

3. self-incrimination - this one might hold water, but not in a way that helps the accusers. 

I'm not an attorney - my pops is one, and I took 2 years of business law as part of my degree program so I know some things, but obviously we never went this deep. I do not profess to be a defense attorney. 

But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls". 
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There can be many reasons to Jane Doe and consider for one moment that saying, “...that I’m aware of..” is a statement of ignorance on the subject. Let’s wait and hear the reasons for their anonymity. 
 

I’m not walking around here feeling all woke but even if they end up being “working girls” does not in any way change if they could or could not have been sexually assaulted. This type of thinking gives credence to why they should remain anonymous, so the court of public opinion doesn’t get a chance to “hear the case” without it being presented properly before a judge, etc. 

 
cmv5 said:
There can be many reasons to Jane Doe and consider for one moment that saying, “...that I’m aware of..” is a statement of ignorance on the subject. Let’s wait and hear the reasons for their anonymity. 
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Obviously - it was me saying "I do not know all the reasons"

Calm down. 

cmv5 said:
I’m not walking around here feeling all woke but even if they end up being “working girls” does not in any way change if they could or could not have been sexually assaulted. This type of thinking gives credence to why they should remain anonymous, so the court of public opinion doesn’t get a chance to “hear the case” without it being presented properly before a judge, etc. 
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I never said nor implied that it did. Again, calm down. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Obviously - it was me saying "I do not know all the reasons"

Calm down. 

I never said nor implied that it did. Again, calm down. 
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I am totally calm but nice try with the textbook gaslight. 

“But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls".”

please explain the above statement but try to do it calmly  

 
cmv5 said:
I am totally calm but nice try with the textbook gaslight. 

“But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls".”

please explain the above statement but try to do it calmly  
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I think the problem is, and has been, why not report to your management if you have it... or why not report to local police department. 

 
cmv5 said:
I am totally calm but nice try with the textbook gaslight. 

“But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls".”

please explain the above statement but try to do it calmly  
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I've posted quite a bit in this topic and have always been careful to couch my statements with non-accusatory language, looking at this issue from both  sides. That you came steamrolling in to the latest page, all full of wokeness is on you, and does us both a disservice.  

I suggest you read back so you don't continue to make a fool out of yourself. I'm done engaging your bad faith presumptions. 

What you choose to infer from my last few posts is entirely on you if you choose to ignore my other contributions to this topic

Good day. 

 
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I haven’t seen a complaint to massage mangers nor police. This is very strange.

Now, I am not saying this isn’t a touchy subject. But some of the victims alleged happenings should have been reported. We are talking about 20 women. 
 

It is bizarre. 

 
Blackbear said:
Maybe we will see complaints from spa owners. But why is there no filings at all? 
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They could well be "independent". 

For those new to this topic, that doesn't imply anything one way or another. Both professional and "working girls" masseuses operate independently. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
They could well be "independent". 

For those new to this topic, that doesn't imply anything one way or another. Both professional and "working girls" masseuses operate independently. 
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Yet one said she felt uncomfortable operating under a spa owner. Then she took him as a client on her own. Did she report to previous spa owner? Should be a report given guidelines of owning a business. 

 
Blackbear said:
I’m not trying to defend him. But I also see there is something very very fishy with this lawyer Buzbee. 
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I think after all these pages, we're only couching our statements in the least accusatory tones or making disclaimers like this out of fear of a n00b coming in on this page and casting judgement out of context. 

I totally got what ya meant, no worries at all. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I think after all these pages, we're only couching our statements in the least accusatory tones or making disclaimers like this out of fear of a n00b coming in on this page and casting judgement out of context. 

I totally got what ya meant, no worries at all. 
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Why the no worries at all? 
 

If I’m his defense attorney, I’m hammering him on the no idea who owns the Houston owner nor their family. His ability to represent them comes into question for a lawyer not owned in Houston. 

 
Blackbear said:
Why the no worries at all? 
 

If I’m his defense attorney, I’m hammering him on the no idea who owns the Houston owner nor their family. His ability to represent them comes into question for a lawyer not owned in Houston. 
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Oh, Watson still has PLENTY of worries. 

I meant no need for you to post a disclaimer, you've posted enough that I think folks know what you meant. 

 
This to me enters federal court and an anti-trust situation. Watson will get a litigation lawyer to sue on federal level. And he will sue nfl. 

 
I’m definitely in wait and see mode.  But I would think if you’re an upstanding guy (meaning all you want is an actual massage) and you find a good massage therapist you keep them.  I would find it odd if Desean says “I go to all kinds of masssage therapists and I’ve never done anything shady”.  Why so many?  

 
Hoh said:
I’m definitely in wait and see mode.  But I would think if you’re an upstanding guy (meaning all you want is an actual massage) and you find a good massage therapist you keep them.  I would find it odd if Desean says “I go to all kinds of masssage therapists and I’ve never done anything shady”.  Why so many?  
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Why so many?  You don’t.  You also don’t fly them in. But, if they were “Working girls”and I’m not saying they are, but if they were, then I can see them flying to meet up with Watson.

 
Hoh said:
I’m definitely in wait and see mode.  But I would think if you’re an upstanding guy (meaning all you want is an actual massage) and you find a good massage therapist you keep them.  I would find it odd if Desean says “I go to all kinds of masssage therapists and I’ve never done anything shady”.  Why so many?  
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I don’t doubt he’s done more than get massages. The question is was it consensual? And as far as there being 15,16, or 57 accusers, hell if there’s no consequences I might even give Buzbee a call and take my chances on a quick pay day. 
 

Put some %!£€!ing consequences on the other side and I’m pretty sure the numbers of accusations dry up pretty quick. 

 
Put some %!£€!ing consequences on the other side and I’m pretty sure the numbers of accusations dry up pretty quick. 
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The challenge with this is that teeters close to victim-blaming. 

At this point, the legal system must grind its gears to whatever conclusion is to come. We just don't know enough. There's a lot of weird about this thing. 

 
Definition of Occam's razor

: a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities

 
Razors Edge said:
Were you one of the dudes convicting Brian Banks?

You be one of those dudes who think you are woke cuz you believe women without evidence. 

What is it with a site full of mostly men in a manly game battling to be the most woke that they believe all women as if they get a medal?

Wait, men cant talk like men cuz, you know...wokeness. I'm a man, I'll defend men against men just believing women are traitors. How about that? 

People dont like it when you defend men.

I feel no shame for defending men against women who do this stuff all the time. And we know it, but nope...wokeness is what matters not reality.
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jesus

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Yes - the 2 obvious reasons for flying in 15 women may be 

1. they're working girls

2. he's a freak who professional women don't make a 2nd appointment with

those are the only obvious reasons, thus Occam's Razor suggests that one of those is true. 
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I haven't read all of the cases, but out of the first half dozen I did skim the summaries of, only one talked about flying someone in. 

Where does this flying in 15 women thing come from? 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Definition of Occam's razor

: a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities
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Naw

A better definition would be:

Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions and equal explanatory power should be chosen.

People often make the mistake that the first part of the definition - also thought of as simplicity - is OR in its entirety and the ruling factor. But it must also have equal clarity.

The Watson case in it’s current form is a suboptimal situation to try to apply it.

Which is, like, just my opinion man.

 
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Which is, like, just my opinion man.
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Unlike the tape deck and the Creedence tape, they may actually have the boys downtown working on this one....in shifts.

:lol:

(I cut & pasted the 1st definition that came up in my Google search. ;)  )

 
GregR said:
I haven't read all of the cases, but out of the first half dozen I did skim the summaries of, only one talked about flying someone in. 

Where does this flying in 15 women thing come from? 
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This is the operator game, man - I only know what I've read in this topic. haha

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
This is the operator game, man - I only know what I've read in this topic. haha
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Yes as far as I know, almost all of them have been local to where he was. One woman was in LA, but Watson was contacting her while he was in LA as well.  There was mention of one woman being flown in from Atlanta which is where Watson is from.   

 
GregR said:
Yes as far as I know, almost all of them have been local to where he was. One woman was in LA, but Watson was contacting her while he was in LA as well.  There was mention of one woman being flown in from Atlanta which is where Watson is from.   
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At least, according to the single source of info from the accuser's side, if I understand this right.

I'mma let it breathe for a couple days. Wake me when there's news. I'll open the topic if I see @Faust has posted. 

 
The Show said:
I don’t doubt he’s done more than get massages. The question is was it consensual? And as far as there being 15,16, or 57 accusers, hell if there’s no consequences I might even give Buzbee a call and take my chances on a quick pay day. 
 

Put some %!£€!ing consequences on the other side and I’m pretty sure the numbers of accusations dry up pretty quick. 
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I don't know if consequences is the right word, but if the lawyer files several cases as Jane Doe and nobody can find out who they are, we seem to be left trusting the vetting process of a person who could be not that motivated to properly vet the accusers. 

If everything was dropped right now, would Watson be able to discover who the accusers were with a defamation case or other way of forcing Buzbee to share it, or would the identities be forever locked in attorney client privilege or otherwise secret? 

 
GregR said:
Yes as far as I know, almost all of them have been local to where he was. One woman was in LA, but Watson was contacting her while he was in LA as well.  There was mention of one woman being flown in from Atlanta which is where Watson is from.   
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Today there were accusations where a new victim was in a room in California. 

 
GregR said:
Yes as far as I know, almost all of them have been local to where he was. One woman was in LA, but Watson was contacting her while he was in LA as well.  There was mention of one woman being flown in from Atlanta which is where Watson is from.   
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And one was flown in from Atlanta. 

 
kittenmittens said:
I don't know if consequences is the right word, but if the lawyer files several cases as Jane Doe and nobody can find out who they are, we seem to be left trusting the vetting process of a person who could be not that motivated to properly vet the accusers. 

If everything was dropped right now, would Watson be able to discover who the accusers were with a defamation case or other way of forcing Buzbee to share it, or would the identities be forever locked in attorney client privilege or otherwise secret? 
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At this point there will be litigation against this lawyer. And it is obviously over state lines. 

 
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