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QB Deshaun Watson, HOU - 09.12.21 - Adam Schefter reports the Texans are seeking a combination of six players and picks in a Deshaun Watson trade


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5 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Watson's attorneys have every right to know who is accusing them. 

If it were you or I being accused, we would want to know who our accusers were. 

Do they?  I'm an idiot that is obviously clear, but do they have a legal right to know or can it remain anonymous? 

Oh obviously they can just figure it out with the dates and places. 

I'm dumb. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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11 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Oh, no question. I agree completely.  But when it comes to accusations like this, the only reason to Jane Doe anyone that I'm aware of is if

1. they are under-age (not applicable)

2. credible threat of danger should their ID be revealed, like testifying against the mob (don't see how that's the case with a high profile public figure like Watson) 

3. self-incrimination - this one might hold water, but not in a way that helps the accusers. 

I'm not an attorney - my pops is one, and I took 2 years of business law as part of my degree program so I know some things, but obviously we never went this deep. I do not profess to be a defense attorney. 

But like I said - it seems like the accusers would only be more credible if we knew that they were actually licensed massage professionals with clients who haven't been overtly sexual with them. Obscuring their names makes it more, not less likely that these are "working girls". 

4. The women are still working as massage therapists and are concerned clients might not want to hire them if they make accusations about clients. 

It's not the same, but too often victims of sexual assault find themselves ostracized by their friends. That's hopefully changing, it's been a while since I've been a prosecutor or worked in the field.

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He needs to settle, and settle ASAP.

Admit to his "illness" or admit to being a sex addict or whatever, go to therapy, and then go make 400 million more dollars.  

I can see why the ladies are not filing anything with police. Probably nothing would happen. So, go get some money for what he did, and call it a day.  

 

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7 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

He needs to settle, and settle ASAP.

Admit to his "illness" or admit to being a sex addict or whatever, go to therapy, and then go make 400 million more dollars.  

I can see why the ladies are not filing anything with police. Probably nothing would happen. So, go get some money for what he did, and call it a day.  

 

You do realize it was reported that several of the encounters were sexually consensual.  Perhaps he tried on the others and failed and that is sexual harassment and he should try and settle ASAP as you said.  I still can't get past this flying in several massage therapist however.  Who does that?  Perhaps a favorite?  Don't you think this is looking more and more like a pay for sex thing?  Or some of it was and the others weren't?

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

You do realize it was reported that several of the encounters were sexually consensual.  Perhaps he tried on the others and failed and that is sexual harassment and he should try and settle ASAP as you said.  I still can't get past this flying in several massage therapist however.  Who does that?  Perhaps a favorite?  Don't you think this is looking more and more like a pay for sex thing?  Or some of it was and the others weren't?

Who knows.  Just end it.

It sucks to give up money, but sucks even more to be able to earn 50x the money you will need to give.

He more than likely did some technically not so legal things.  Jail worthy?  Probably not.  Banned from NFL worthy?  Maybe.  End it before it gets there.

Obviously that lawyer is counting on just that

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36 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Who knows.  Just end it.

It sucks to give up money, but sucks even more to be able to earn 50x the money you will need to give.

He more than likely did some technically not so legal things.  Jail worthy?  Probably not.  Banned from NFL worthy?  Maybe.  End it before it gets there.

Obviously that lawyer is counting on just that

He can settle all he wants but the nfl is already investigating. The horse has left the barn there. 

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8 minutes ago, Capella said:

He can settle all he wants but the nfl is already investigating. The horse has left the barn there. 

Of course, so settle, get agreements signed, minimize damage.

This isnt about money earned, it's about the gazillions he has yet to earn

That lawyer beetlejuice or whatever his name is will be salivating if Watson and his lawyers are thinking that way

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9 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Of course, so settle, get agreements signed, minimize damage.

This isnt about money earned, it's about the gazillions he has yet to earn

That lawyer beetlejuice or whatever his name is will be salivating if Watson and his lawyers are thinking that way

beetlejuice, gotta love that.

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Sure is easy to see who has Watson on their rosters in here.  Sad thread, and I'm of the mindset "innocent until proven guilty." I also believe where there is smoke, there is fire.

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2 hours ago, iamkoza said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/where-things-stand-with-the-myriad-civil-lawsuits-filed-against-deshaun-watson-185850629.html

good quotes from a lawyer Craig Mordock, who specializes in sexual assault cases.

 

Thanks, this is excellent. 

From the article:

There is a well-worn legal axiom that if you have the facts on your side, you pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, you pound the law. If you have neither, you pound the table.

Thus far, Watson and his team have pounded the table 

 

 

Edited by kittenmittens
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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Thanks, this is excellent. 

From the article:

There is a well-worn legal axiom that if you have the facts on your side, you pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, you pound the law. If you have neither, you pound the table.

Thus far, Watson and his team have pounded the table 

 

 

I am obviously not saying this is the case, but here is a hypothetical.

Let's say 10 women randomly came out and accused YOU of this stuff.  You were well known around town, known to have a lot of money,  and went to several different massage parlors.  There is documented proof you had a massage from all 10, though nothing inappropriate ever happened. 

What facts could you pound?  What law would you pound?

Serious question.

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3 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I am obviously not saying this is the case, but here is a hypothetical.

Let's say 10 women randomly came out and accused YOU of this stuff.  You were well known around town, known to have a lot of money,  and went to several different massage parlors.  There is documented proof you had a massage from all 10, though nothing inappropriate ever happened. 

What facts could you pound?  What law would you pound?

Serious question.

I think that hypothetical is statistically impossible.  Plus you are forgetting there are women from other cities involved as well.

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I tried to buy Watson “low” and was countered for (2) 2022 1sts, 2022 2nd, and C. Wentz for Watson.

It’s safe to say his value didn’t get lower in that league. I think it actually went higher.

Edited by smbkrypt24
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4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I am obviously not saying this is the case, but here is a hypothetical.

Let's say 10 women randomly came out and accused YOU of this stuff.  You were well known around town, known to have a lot of money,  and went to several different massage parlors.  There is documented proof you had a massage from all 10, though nothing inappropriate ever happened. 

What facts could you pound?  What law would you pound?

Serious question.

If I went to 10 massages and acted appropriately, there would be proof of return visits to those same therapists as well.  So I would probably pound that fact.

But that didn't happen in Watson's case.  Most of the women refused another appointment from him.  And he even texted at least one therapist apologizing for making her uncomfortable during the massage.  So I don't think your hypothetical scenario is a good example.

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3 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

I tried to buy Watson “low” and was countered for (2) 2022 1sts, 2022 2nd, and C. Wentz for Watson.

It’s safe to say his value didn’t get lower in that league. I think it actually went higher.

SF or 2QB? 

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2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

The overwhelming majority know this is nonsense. Why else would 14 women not come forward with names in the public light while hiding behind a lawyer while having no criminal charges brought up cuz the evidence dont exist? 

You hide when you have something to hide. 

What is your name and location?

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I find it humorous that some people think it's just an easy thing for a woman to lie about something like this about a high profile person, let alone finding 15+.  Like they just decide they're looking for some easy cash and so they accuse someone and then sit around and wait for the money to roll in.  They get scrutinized heavily, grueling cross examinations, depositions, get hate mail, death threats, risk losing other clients that don't want to be associated with the notoriety.  But it's easy money right?

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Brian Banks says hi...

Only in America would we believe unnamed accusers where the accused can not confront the accusations from his accusers cuz they remain unnamed. lolol

But here we are, FBG dont need any more proof other than 14 women they never met who remain unnamed saying so. 

You keep bringing up Brian Banks like it's some sort of comparable example.  He had one woman accusing him, that is way different than 15 or more.

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31 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I am obviously not saying this is the case, but here is a hypothetical.

Let's say 10 women randomly came out and accused YOU of this stuff.  You were well known around town, known to have a lot of money,  and went to several different massage parlors.  There is documented proof you had a massage from all 10, though nothing inappropriate ever happened. 

What facts could you pound?  What law would you pound?

Serious question.

It's a debacle for sure.

This would be a terrible position to be in.  If you didn't do anything, I think you would be aggressively refuting that anything inappropriate at all happened.

 

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2 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

Why is sexual misconduct a civil matter and not a criminal matter?

What am I missing here?

It can be both, but civil is easier to win in court and considerably more profitable to the plaintiff.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Bring me up to speed on something.  Did some of the women say that had consensual sex with Watson during these message encounters?  Or is that just clutter and rumors?

As far as I know Watson is making that claim as well as claiming he has several non-sexual encounters with massage therapist who will testify as such.

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2 minutes ago, menobrown said:

As far as I know Watson is making that claim as well as claiming he has several non-sexual encounters with massage therapist who will testify as such.

Was it only Watson who said that, or did some of the women also say it?

Edited by JohnnyU
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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Was it only Watson who said that, or did some of the women also say it?

Maybe I'm behind but so far only Watson is saying it or his attorney is saying but since they don't know all the plaintiffs names I think he was just talking about the sole plaintiff they were able to figure out who it was.

They are saying he had a sexual encounter with her it was consensual and then she tried to blackmail him.

Rusty Hardin is putting it out there that the only plaintiff they identified he had consensual sex with and she tried to blackmail him and that sheds light on the others, he just can't verify the other accusations because he does not know who they are.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

Maybe I'm behind but so far only Watson is saying it or his attorney is saying but since they don't know all the plaintiffs names I think he was just talking about the sole plaintiff they were able to figure out who it was.

They are saying he had a sexual encounter with her it was consensual and then she tried to blackmail him.

Rusty Hardin is putting it out there that the only plaintiff they identified he had consensual sex with and she tried to blackmail him and that sheds light on the others, he just can't verify the other accusations because he does not know who they are.

They're not even sure if she is one of the plaintiffs, they're making an "educated guess".  I would be much more skeptical if this were the only woman, but there are 13 - 15 others, even if she is one of them.

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17 minutes ago, menobrown said:

It can be both, but civil is easier to win in court and considerably more profitable to the plaintiff.

wouldn't a civil case mean this is a money issue only?

And wouldn't it free Watson from any serious repercussions from the league?

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4 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Regarding consensual sex, Vanessa Richardson, a local reporter, had this report from sources close to Deshaun Watson that "some" of the cases against him involved consensual sex:

https://www.click2houston.com/sports/2021/03/23/sources-deshaun-watson-had-completely-consensual-sexual-encounters-with-some-of-his-accusers/

That's a pretty good trick considering he supposedly doesn't know who his accusers are.

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6 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

wouldn't a civil case mean this is a money issue only?

And wouldn't it free Watson from any serious repercussions from the league?

Some would argue civil is just easier to prove and get to court and not about money. Call me skeptical.

Elliot got 6 games without his case even making it to civil court. AB never technically got put on exempt list but Roger threatening to do if anyone signed him is the only reason.

The NFL would investigate Watson and is investigating him even if the cases were all dropped so he's for sure in danger of facing repercussions from the league.

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15 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

They're not even sure if she is one of the plaintiffs, they're making an "educated guess".  I would be much more skeptical if this were the only woman, but there are 13 - 15 others, even if she is one of them.

 

5 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

That's a pretty good trick considering he supposedly doesn't know who his accusers are.

Sounds like you want it both ways.

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14 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

wouldn't a civil case mean this is a money issue only?

And wouldn't it free Watson from any serious repercussions from the league?

It would. The attorney for the accusers has requested a grand jury.

I believe it was Watson's attorney who equested a police investigation, but that may be rumor. 

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2 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

Sounds like you want it both ways.

Eh, they're complaining about not knowing, and then leaking things like he had consensual sex with some of his accusers.  Seems like they are trying to have it both ways.

All that really does it make it seem like he does like to get off during massages and it's likely he does make some masseuses feel uncomfortable.

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L

Quote

All that really does it make it seem like he does like to get off during massages and it's likely he does make some masseuses feel uncomfortable.

Important to note that while perhaps creepy or weird, neither of those things are actionable unless there is lack of consent, which is what matters here. 

ETA: In fact, just the “being creepy or weird” part isn’t illegal either, in and of itself, and requires no consent. 

Where this will get challenging for the prosecutor is if there was agreement that the massage was to be fully nude. At the point merely propositioning a masseuse is not illegal, though it is creepy if it wasn’t an understood part of the deal in advance.

An actual assault would have to have been committed.

So what if it turns out x# of women engaged in consensual halt ending, while 14 women were propositioned?

File that under “creepy but not illegal”.

I’m hypothesizing here, not saying what I think happened. Just another if/then to consider. 

 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I liked it better when I just got my news from Walter Cronkite on the CBS Evening news at 6:30 ET and my local news at 6:00 and 11:00 (ET).

Johnny.....no trying to sound snarky....but this is like the 5th time you have posted something like this.....yet you keep coming back....if this isn't your roll, don't click on the thread at this point.....this is probably the direction the DW thread is going to go for awhile....

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The thing that annoys me about this whole thing is mostly the fact that, with the apps we have today, why go through the trouble of this "back pages" type transaction? Like massage therapy? Cool, get a massage, and while you are doing that, look through tinder and find a girl that wants to do weird stuff 

 

One of these stories is way off base. Either old man mcnair doesnt know how the kids hook up nowadays and concocted this story to try to punish him, or watson really is a deviant and also not very smart.

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson, HOU - 09.12.21 - Adam Schefter reports the Texans are seeking a combination of six players and picks in a Deshaun Watson trade

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