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QB Deshaun Watson, HOU - 09.12.21 - Adam Schefter reports the Texans are seeking a combination of six players and picks in a Deshaun Watson trade


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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Yes. Let's not do that please.

Basically, let's wait till we have facts. Thanks. 

we do have facts tho, which was what we were discussing. 

Buzbee flat out lied about providing a mountain of evidence to Houston Police this past monday. 

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So what I know:

it wouldn’t be defamation because the things alleged by the attorney were technically true (in this hypothetical, of the situation described above).

But colluding with owners/team harmed Watson’s image by timing the release of information until it could do the most damage is almost certainly actionable. 

An attorney would have to put it into legal terms for us, but from my memory of tort law, there’s absolutely economic & repetitional harm done to Watson, coordinated between team/owners & this attorney.

that’s purely in this hypothetical scenario where no criminal charges are ever filed & some/all women recant or drop their civil suits. 

If this was all made up (highly unlikely imo), Watson would beat them into the pot with a defamation suit.  And it would be worth millions.  Tens of millions.  

Edited by zoonation
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4 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

YES/NO

Did Buzbee LIE about providing evidence to the Houston Police on Monday, March 22, 2021?

 

 

Or he decided it wasn’t in his clients’ best interest.  Or they don’t want to.  Lots of reasons why he may not have.  Means nothing.  

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2 hours ago, zoonation said:

If this was all made up (highly unlikely imo), Watson would beat them into the pot with a defamation suit.  And it would be worth millions.  Tens of millions.  

Even if it wasn't made up that might be true. 

Consider this: it's known by the team & owner that he has this predilection for this particular kink. And they held back that info for [days/months/years] and when Watson demanded a trade, the owner gave the info to his fame-seeking, possibly sketchy attorney neighbor.  

That's the allegation I was responding to.  In that hypothetical, they conspired to ruin the guy, to great effect. 

Surely that has to be actionable, regardless of whether Watson is guilty of anything or not, right?  Aren't there laws for failure to report a crime? If they were award of the allegations of non-consensual contact by Watson & did not report that to the police, I'm pretty sure that's a crime. 

Again: I am not saying that happened. That was a report (rumor? hot tip?) that someone shared here & I'm simply responding to the "well if that's true, then whoa" hypothetical. 

Watson could both be an assailant and a victim here. It is entirely feasible. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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30 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Only if you like having elite players on your roster.

I wanted to wait on my 1.08 until the draft but this seemed like getting Watson on the cheap and didn’t want to wait

Got DeShaun Watson, 2022 1st, 3.05, 2022 3rd

Gave 1.08, Hamler, 4.08

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3 hours ago, massraider said:

Buzbee didn't meet his own deadline. 

Missing a deadline is lying?  

Tough crowd.  

I kinda think that Watson and his attorney have been more willing and are discussing possible settlements and maybe that’s why Buzbee hasn’t pursued the criminal charges as of yet.  Just the threat of doing it might be what leads to these suits being settled.

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3 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

I wanted to wait on my 1.08 until the draft but this seemed like getting Watson on the cheap and didn’t want to wait

Got DeShaun Watson, 2022 1st, 3.05, 2022 3rd

Gave 1.08, Hamler, 4.08

I think you did very well. If this Watson thing blows over with minimal suspension then you did very very well.

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9 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Watson could both be an assailant and a victim here. It is entirely feasible. 

This seems not all that unlikely. 

My rampant speculation is that Watson is guilty of what most of the women are saying.  Being gross and creepy propositioning unsuspecting masseuses.  There is almost certainly no way that a possibly shady but established lawyer is cooking up totally fake cases with no real women or merit behind them. 

It's the job of the plaintiffs lawyers to get as much in settlement as they can for their clients.  To that end, I suspect that they will posture and do whatever they can get away with to further their case.  I don't understand the nuances of how much embellishing they could reasonably get away with or how this public perception game influences settlement negotiations. 

Maybe some of the claims are embellished or framed by the lawyer to be more effective at winning in the court of public opinion, and maybe they aren't.  It seems like there would be incentive for this to happen so it's hard to dismiss that. 

I hope it's been clear in my posting that I don't know anything and haven't reached any conclusion, just trying to reason in a way that can help predict the outcome and make the best possible fantasy moves.   Pure speculation.  

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Quote

 

I hope it's been clear in my posting that I don't know anything and haven't reached any conclusion, just trying to reason in a way that can help predict the outcome and make the best possible fantasy moves.   Pure speculation.  

I think that’s the most reasonable approach anyone can take.

I recall the Tyreek situation (obviously not the same circumstances, but folks said he’d never play again) when many bought low - if you’re brave & the Watson owner wants to jump ship, these are the evaluations you have to make. 

Determining Watson’s value at this point from a FF perspective basically comes down to 2 things:

1. what’s the owner willing to take for a potentially declining asset?

2. How much are you willing to lose if he turns into a pumpkin? 

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10 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

I kinda think that Watson and his attorney have been more willing and are discussing possible settlements and maybe that’s why Buzbee hasn’t pursued the criminal charges as of yet.  Just the threat of doing it might be what leads to these suits being settled.

I think this is spot on, and what I mean by posturing. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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Buzbee doesn't pursue criminal charges. Only the DA's office can do that (or the state attorney general). If Buzbee just gave the statements of the women to the police this week, it is going to take some time for the police - who had nothing to go on before that - to follow up and investigate the facts. This will almost certainly take a while, particularly when the women live all over and will be hard to reach and interview. Investigation time between the police learning that a crime might have happened and bringing charges is normal. They can't press charges just because Buzbee says some other people told him this guy did bad things.

In the civil litigation Buzbee filed, as it winds along, both sides will be able to question the claimants on both sides under oath and at great length (depositions). Only after that will either have a very complete sense of what the other side will say and what proof they have. It would be unusual for either side to settle before all of that happens (although the huge amount of publicity here might hasten a settlement).  

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12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You think he is guilty based off no evidence....

There is a small amount of evidence at this time.  He texted one woman to say that "he makes a lot of massage therapists uncomfortable" and he texted another woman to apologize for making her uncomfortable during the massage.  Obviously that isn't enough to convict someone of a crime, but there is evidence he knows that he acts inappropriately during massages.

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27 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

There is a small amount of evidence at this time.  He texted one woman to say that "he makes a lot of massage therapists uncomfortable" and he texted another woman to apologize for making her uncomfortable during the massage.  Obviously that isn't enough to convict someone of a crime, but there is evidence he knows that he acts inappropriately during massages.

There is surely some evidence out there - it just comes down to how convincing/credible one finds it: those texts (assuming they exist); the NDA (assuming its real) and even the complaints filed (they require a signed verification by attorney or client). Even Watson's statement that there was consent is evidence encounters may have taken place.

I honestly have no idea at this point, as there is just way too much that doesn’t add up on either side of the case, and find it odd that anyone can feel strongly one way or the other so far - at this early stage.

Like most things the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and we may never actually know the full truth.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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Two more lawsuits were filed against Deshaun Watson Monday, accusing him of sexual misconduct. 

The grim tally now stands at 18 lawsuits alleging the Houston quarterback sexually harassed and assaulted massage therapists. One of the lawsuits was filed by a flight attendant and message therapist who knew Watson through a mutual friend. She's the first plaintiff to have known the QB before the alleged sexual misconduct. Attorney Tony Buzbee said in a recent Instagram post that there would eventually be 20 lawsuits against Watson. A lawsuit filed last week called Watson a "serial predator." Through his attorney, Watson denies the allegations. NBC Sports' Peter King wrote Monday that "no team can trade for Watson now, or until these allegations are either proven false or until the cases are settled, dismissed or withdrawn." Watson is trending toward missing some or all of the 2021 season unless his legal matters vanish in the next few months. 

SOURCE: Aaron Reiss on Twitter 

Mar 29, 2021, 9:28 AM ET

 

 

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Was this criminal serial sexual abuser arrested yet? Have not seen the latest.

Im sure with all this evidence from a stand up civil lawyer that he will be behind bars in no time. 

lol No way possible that people can do things to try to get rich.

You think he is guilty based off no evidence, just a civil lawyers lawsuit in which you have not seen the evidence because you believe women dont lie. 

Hear about the one where the woman created a fake company to steal money from investors? Elizabeth Holmes loves the fact you think women cant lie and make up stuff for personal gain...she really really loves that narrative. I mean, why would she do all that lying if she would eventually be caught? Who would do the obvious lie and risk it all for a few bucks? 

I think I read a story where the people were being warned and they said "How do you fake a company?" Welp, they look smart huh? #BelieveAllWomen, even the ones who lie.

Hot take, coming in!!

 

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28 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

OMG, you are defending men and not trusting women on their word...ignore. lol

Your take is why so many guys like me exist, but most of us dont say anything.

You guys hear what men who dont run and hide in fear of being silenced by society have to say and youa re shocked at our dislike for the hatred of men...wait, you wanna silence me. check that. You dont wanna hear what a man who isnt trying for likes in a forum of 99% other men actually have to say.

Silencing us on twitter and here dont make my view change in real life. 

Let me guess tot he fake men wanting fake woke points with mostly other men, you think you are in the majority of men? No, so you minority of men cowering to womens lies to appear fake woke are the ones who should be ignored.

The majority of dudes skate right past this thread because of your weak defenses of women and just dont wanna deal with it as if the men defending men of false lies are the problem and not the men just trusting lies are not the problem. Not I, I love confronting people who just trust women as if they never grew up with them or have a significant other, sister, mother, cousin who lies their tuchus off. 

Men believing women just because are the problem, deal with it. I couldnt imagine being a man who thinks scoring woke points in man hatred is the way to go as if it wins anything.

The same men crying about believing women are the first ones to cheat and not hold the door open for them, so spare me. 

 

don't know you whatsoever....but you might be misreading the temperature of the majority of the room just a little...think most in here are squarely in the innocent until proven guilty camp....there may be a few skewed to one extreme or the other.....but most aren't sounding really bitter for any particular reason....most simply saying innocent until proven guilty while also just recognizing and acknowledging it doesn't look real great at this point....but we will have to wait and see....

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54 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

OMG, you are defending men and not trusting women on their word...ignore. lol

Your take is why so many guys like me exist, but most of us dont say anything.

You guys hear what men who dont run and hide in fear of being silenced by society have to say and youa re shocked at our dislike for the hatred of men...wait, you wanna silence me. check that. You dont wanna hear what a man who isnt trying for likes in a forum of 99% other men actually have to say.

Silencing us on twitter and here dont make my view change in real life. 

Let me guess tot he fake men wanting fake woke points with mostly other men, you think you are in the majority of men? No, so you minority of men cowering to womens lies to appear fake woke are the ones who should be ignored.

The majority of dudes skate right past this thread because of your weak defenses of women and just dont wanna deal with it as if the men defending men of false lies are the problem and not the men just trusting lies are not the problem. Not I, I love confronting people who just trust women as if they never grew up with them or have a significant other, sister, mother, cousin who lies their tuchus off. 

Men believing women just because are the problem, deal with it. I couldnt imagine being a man who thinks scoring woke points in man hatred is the way to go as if it wins anything.

The same men crying about believing women are the first ones to cheat and not hold the door open for them, so spare me. 

 

Thoughtfully supporting men will not get you put on ignore.  It's usually the unhinged rants that will do it.

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7 minutes ago, JamboTaylor said:
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Watson reached out to both Mary and the referring therapist the day after his appointment, asking to book with her again. Mary says she told him, via text, that she was not available. In the following months, she says she heard from Watson twice more, via Instagram direct message. Each time he did not seem to realize that he’d previously booked with her. SI reviewed these messages, sent from Watson’s verified Instagram account, as part of the process to corroborate Mary’s account.

so this trade request is about him having run out of houston area massage therapists

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That article is pretty damning.

“The one thing I keep thinking about is, he’s about to get traded to another place,” she says. “What if he goes to Atlanta or California or anywhere else? He would have a whole new community of massage therapists to target.”

Mary* is a massage therapist who worked with Deshaun Watson in 2019. She’s not among the plaintiffs who have filed suit & is not represented by Tony Buzbee. SI reached out to her. We reviewed messages/spoke to a contemporaneous witness to verify her story:

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10 minutes ago, menobrown said:

She came across as credible and in many ways I took that as really good news for Watson.

How on earth is that article good news for Watson? It’s extremely damning. 

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Can’t believe how Mary’s account of what happened can be considered good news for Watson.  Basically confirms what the other woman are saying, but not as awful, even though Watson offered her the opportunity to touch his unit, he didn’t force her, but that didn’t stop him from doing his weird thrusting.  “This towel is “itchy”, lol, that cracked me up.

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3 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

Can’t believe how Mary’s account of what happened can be considered good news for Watson.  Basically confirms what the other woman are saying, but not as awful, even though Watson offered her the opportunity to touch his unit, he didn’t force her, but that didn’t stop him from doing his weird thrusting.  “This towel is “itchy”, lol, that cracked me up.

"These pants are chafing me, mind if I take them off?"

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Guessing he will deny all criminal accusations, confess a sex addiction and get treated for it, publicly apologize to those he offended, pay negotiated settlements, and make a huge donation to some sort of related charity.  If no criminal charges/conviction happen, he might not miss any games (at least ones he would have been willing to play in).

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9 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

Can’t believe how Mary’s account of what happened can be considered good news for Watson.  Basically confirms what the other woman are saying, but not as awful, even though Watson offered her the opportunity to touch his unit, he didn’t force her, but that didn’t stop him from doing his weird thrusting.  “This towel is “itchy”, lol, that cracked me up.

I liked it better when we didn't know these things.  At what point did this become important to people?

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Let me explain to some of you why I said in "many ways' her account is good for him.

First let's start with what should be have been understood but seems to have passed over a few of you that in "many ways" does not mean "in totality".

"Mary' sounded very credible. She at this point has not entered into a civil suit, does not seem to want anything as of yet.

If you believe Watson is 100% not guilty of the slightest misconduct, has always behaving like a model citizen during all of his massages this would not be good news.

If you are like me and believe it's likely Watson did some things he should not have been doing, believe with this smoke there is something, but at the same time don't believe EVERYTHING everyone women is claiming this might be applicable to you.

Per her account he kept his hands to himself, he forced nothing on her, he did not try and make his penis touch her, his main offense was getting naked.

Now I'm not legal expect but forcing someone to perform oral sure sounds like rape.

Touching someone with your penis sure sounds like sexual assault.

Demonstrating a pattern of dropping your towel during a massage would at most seem to make you guilty of indecent exposure.

So when you got 20 people suing for money, some making claims of forced oral sex(rape), most making claims of him making sure his penis touched their hand(sexual assault)but one lady not wanting money or suing anyone saying his main offense was  dropping his towel and improperly exposing himself.

If Watson did exactly as this lady said in all of his appointments but did NOT do what the others say he did which again ranges from rape to sexual assault then his worse offense is indecent exposure. That's what I mean this being good news for him in some ways because someone credible with nothing to gain as of now is indicating with her she did not do the things the others are accusing him of doing. And if he did what she is saying in all of his appointments he'll get suspended, might have to settle, will see his pristine image take a hit, but it's not remotely close to the damage he'd face if faced with multiple counts of rape or sexual assault.

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4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

The majority of dudes skate right past this thread because of your weak defenses of women and just dont wanna deal with it as if the men defending men of false lies are the problem and not the men just trusting lies are not the problem.

:tumbleweed:

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27 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I liked it better when we didn't know these things.  At what point did this become important to people?

Blame Roger.

Every incident leads to a media frenzy to figure out what the suspension should be.

That and this stuff is mildly entertaining.

 

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7 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Wasnt the claim "coereced" oral sex?  That's a bit different than forced.

 

The one accusation did use the term "coereced" and I think something along the lines of she blacked out and defecate on herself after which is a pretty astounding accusation to make.

I never read the other accusation but have seen stuff like this reported, one aritle I read said " Later, she says, Watson forced her mouth onto his penis, which she said left her fearing for her life."

That's some out of the league for years, looking at jail time kind of accusations.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, menobrown said:

The one accusation did use the term "coereced" and I think something along the lines of she blacked out and defecate on herself after which is a pretty astounding accusation to make.

I never read the other accusation but have seen stuff like this reported, one aritle I read said " Later, she says, Watson forced her mouth onto his penis, which she said left her fearing for her life."

That's some out of the league for years, looking at jail time kind of accusations.

 

 

Guessing there would need to be proof for something like that.

Defense wounds, SANE exam at the hospital afterwards.....

 

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson, HOU - 09.12.21 - Adam Schefter reports the Texans are seeking a combination of six players and picks in a Deshaun Watson trade

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