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QB Deshaun Watson, HOU


Faust

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

Someone explain to me how Tua is so bad they would give up a lot for Watson considering his situation.  Has Tua had a chance to develop?  Why so impatient?  I thought his numbers last week were decent.  He completed 70% of his passes and 2 TDs.

Have you watched him throw a football lately? He looks like he has to shot put it and people didn't read up on his injury enough. I thought he hurt his hip, I didn't know the whole socket was broken all the way down inside, nasty injury and why Flores used the words "I need to protect him" when he was mulling playing him early last year, he knows the kid has to have almost a perfect set up around him, that's not NFL material IMO. 

Miami fans have seen plenty already, it's getting near Josh Rosen levels I would say, not much reason to keep going. He doesn't have the physical make up for the position in the NFL. 

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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Miami fans have seen plenty already, it's getting near Josh Rosen levels I would say, not much reason to keep going. He doesn't have the physical make up for the position in the NFL. 

Small sample size.  Last year really doesn't count given his injury situation at the time.  I know JAX is a bad team and they lost, but he did look pretty good throwing for 70% and two TDs.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Small sample size.  Last year really doesn't count given his injury situation at the time.  I know JAX is a bad team and they lost, but he did look pretty good throwing for 70% and two TDs.

When did he look good? 1st drive that was scripted? The 250 yds in the 1st half that produced 13 points?

How about the 2nd half? Yeah not much good stuff there at all when it counts the most. Small sample size? He started plenty of games last year? 

I'd be happy to trade him to your fav team for a 4th or 5th and you can find out all about him and judge for yourself. 5 yd completions to Waddle are not going to cut it, he looks pathetic, just put him in the Trubisky/Rosen box of great early QB selection in the Draft. 

You're quoting 70% but you're not WATCHING friend, you're quoting me a box % to try and win an argument, there's not much to argue about, he STINKS!

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Can’t believe some of the hyperbole in here. He’s started what….TEN GAMES??  I don’t think I’ve ever seen this harsh a judgement on a QB with so few starts. Like minds made up judgement with no flexibility at all. When you start digging for ways to criticize positive games you’re too in the tank to be fair. 

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

When did he look good? 1st drive that was scripted? The 250 yds in the 1st half that produced 13 points?

How about the 2nd half? Yeah not much good stuff there at all when it counts the most. Small sample size? He started plenty of games last year? 

I'd be happy to trade him to your fav team for a 4th or 5th and you can find out all about him and judge for yourself. 5 yd completions to Waddle are not going to cut it, he looks pathetic, just put him in the Trubisky/Rosen box of great early QB selection in the Draft. 

You're quoting 70% but you're not WATCHING friend, you're quoting me a box % to try and win an argument, there's not much to argue about, he STINKS!

Had him in a couple of leagues and traded him in both earlier this year, but I still think some of you guys are suffering from premature Tuaejaculation, but I could be wrong.  Didn't Miami give up on Tannehill as well?

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1 minute ago, Sunday Gravy said:

Can’t believe some of the hyperbole in here. He’s started what….TEN GAMES??  I don’t think I’ve ever seen this harsh a judgement on a QB with so few starts. Like minds made up judgement with no flexibility at all. When you start digging for ways to criticize positive games you’re too in the tank to be fair. 

Josh Rosen was cast aside was rather fast, hasn't shown that anyone was too quick to judge. Lots of QBs we can point to that never improve or really get better. Become journeymen down the road if they are lucky. 

Miami and the fans have seen enough of Tua already, no ability to complete a pass down field. Lot of draft picks on on his OL, WRs brought in and drafted, Top flight TE in Gesicki, and he is super injury prone and was that way coming out of college. 

This is starting to sound like Tim Tebow all over again and ironic they both have same initials and both were way over drafted in the 1st round. 

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26 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

You're quoting 70% but you're not WATCHING friend, you're quoting me a box % to try and win an argument, there's not much to argue about, he STINKS!

The previous statement was brought to you by The Critic.

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24 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Had him in a couple of leagues and traded him in both earlier this year, but I still think some of you guys are suffering from premature Tuaejaculation, but I could be wrong.  Didn't Miami give up on Tannehill as well?

Good point on Tanny...  but was that all Gase? 

I moved Tua for Matt Ryan ...  figured they have the same shelf life in Dynasty. 

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55 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Josh Rosen was cast aside was rather fast, hasn't shown that anyone was too quick to judge. Lots of QBs we can point to that never improve or really get better. Become journeymen down the road if they are lucky. 

Miami and the fans have seen enough of Tua already, no ability to complete a pass down field. Lot of draft picks on on his OL, WRs brought in and drafted, Top flight TE in Gesicki, and he is super injury prone and was that way coming out of college. 

This is starting to sound like Tim Tebow all over again and ironic they both have same initials and both were way over drafted in the 1st round. 

 

On Rosen, they clearly made the right move. A player with his pedigree (10th overall) has done nothing since. You'd think someone with his talent would shine through. He's clearly a massive bust, and was only signed by the Falcons (right before the start of season) because McCarron went down.

It's fascinating to think where the Cardinals would be without Kingsburry. Teams NEVER give up on high QBs after one season but if they'd stuck with Rosen they'd be in draft hell and have missed out on Murray. 

Sometimes players need time to develop (hello Josh Allen). But at other points a player clearly isn't good enough. You have to know the difference and Tua... he's not good enough. Throw on top that he's severely injury prone. 

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

So best case, DW settles out of court with all those women, the NFL suspends him the rest of this season only, DW & Tua switch teams with a bunch of draft picks going Houston's way?

To the best of my knowledge we don't know exactly what crime has or has not been committed. I reserve judgement until I have a chance to really dig deep into the evidence and read line by line what exactly transpired on these massage tables. Watson was a stiff pillar of the community prior to this and I hate to be premature in jumping to conclusions. So far we only seem to know that he's a serial massager. 

Sincerely and without Bias, 

DolFanDan 

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1 hour ago, Sunday Gravy said:

Can’t believe some of the hyperbole in here. He’s started what….TEN GAMES??  I don’t think I’ve ever seen this harsh a judgement on a QB with so few starts. Like minds made up judgement with no flexibility at all. When you start digging for ways to criticize positive games you’re too in the tank to be fair. 

I can think of at least one current QB on my team lol

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23 hours ago, menobrown said:

The NFL has never put a player on exempt list that was not facing criminal charges and multiple reports have continued to come out during course of this that they plan to do nothing with Watson until at least the criminal investigation is complete.

He's going to get traded and he's going to play for his new team this year.

I do not believe this statement is accurate. Kareem Hunt was never charged with anything but got placed on the list. Jeff Demps got on the list 10 years ago and wasn't even involved in any type of altercation (IIRC, he was trying to make the Olympic team as a sprinter). IIRC, kicker Josh Brown got placed on the list from allegations he was verbally abusive to his wife (no charges filed). IIRC, Jonathan Vilma was placed on the list for his role in Bountygate (certainly nothing criminal).

Greg Hardy was initially active and played a game for Carolina despite DV and gun charges several months earlier. There was such an outrage after that game that he got placed on the exempt list. The charges were later dropped but he stayed on the list and was suspended to start the following year. Ben Roethlisberger was suspended without any criminal charges being filed.

Bottom line, the league can and has chosen to do whatever it wants in terms of discipline, whether there has been precedent or not, whether they have been consistent or not, and they seemingly have made up policies as they go. IMO, if a team trades for Watson and plans to play him, the league will take a lay of the land and see what the optics are and then make a PR decision based on which way the wind is blowing. 

IIRC, when ADP had his off field issues, the league was not quick to intervene until sponsors threatened to pull their advertising dollars, which would have amounted to millions of dollars. If that looks like the potential outcome, it would not shock me at all if Watson ended up on the exempt list (no matter what has been reported about it so far). I'll believe they won't intervene when Goodell himself says at a press conference that they won't discipline Watson now and he is free to play. Until then, it's all info coming out from reporters through unnamed sources and guesswork. There has not been an official declaration that Watson could play tomorrow if a team wanted him to.

 

Edited by Anarchy99
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3 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Sounds like a coach and GM problem to me.  I don't own any shares of Tua, but it is premature to write him off and frankly, he hasn't looked bad.  I remember Peyton Manning threw 15 INTs his rookie year.  Not saying Tua is Peyton, but to write Tua off after last year is stupid.  He was coming off a horrible injury in college.

 

It doesn't have to be "writing him off" to not pass up on an opportunity to get an already elite player at the most important position in the NFL.

I am not a Tua hater.  I'm not particularly optimistic but he hasn't been any worse so far than Josh Allen or Drew Brees were this far into their careers.  But you don't pass on a proven superstar for someone with a little bit of potential, and it doesn't matter what they paid for Tua originally (remember all the people saying it was ludicrous to draft Kyler Murray 1st overall a year after spending a top 10 pick on a QB).

Obviously Watson's off the field issues muddy things up, but if the Dolphins have some reason to believe those are workable then you absolutely don't pass on a once in 20 year opportunity to score 26 year old superstar QB because you want to give Tua more time to see if he develops into something more than a mid career Jared Goff quality QB.

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Pat Leonard @PLeonardNYDN

I asked Matt Rhule with Deshaun Watson available at the trade deadline if the Panthers would do due diligence, and he said “I haven’t done any work on anyone else” and “I believe Sam (Darnold) will be a great quarterback for the Carolina Panthers” #DeshaunWatson #KeepPounding


https://twitter.com/pleonardnydn/status/1451190848792657920?s=21

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Just now, RC94 said:

I'm sure the teams thinking about trading for him have considered this, but whoever gets him will probably lose both of they're remaining female fans.


Duuude, I get what you're putting down, but the NFL has tons of female fans. Like a whole lot more than one would think. This is a bad look for any franchise unless there's gross and coordinated lying efforts going on by twenty-two women, which I find really hard to believe. 

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I believe that image rehabilitation in the NFL is a bit of a car wash but I can't see how they're going to run Watson through it this quickly and under these circumstances.This would be like changing his name to "WesShaun Datson", putting a fake moustache on him and trying to pretend he's someone else.

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:


Duuude, I get what you're putting down, but the NFL has tons of female fans. Like a whole lot more than one would think. This is a bad look for any franchise unless there's gross and coordinated lying efforts going on by twenty-two women, which I find really hard to believe. 

I've had MORE than twenty-two women claim I was an A*Hole, which clearly isn't true.

I'm just misunderstood.

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2 minutes ago, DropKick said:

I've had MORE than twenty-two women claim I was an A*Hole, which clearly isn't true.

I'm just misunderstood.


I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

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3 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

 

It doesn't have to be "writing him off" to not pass up on an opportunity to get an already elite player at the most important position in the NFL.

I am not a Tua hater.  I'm not particularly optimistic but he hasn't been any worse so far than Josh Allen or Drew Brees were this far into their careers.  But you don't pass on a proven superstar for someone with a little bit of potential, and it doesn't matter what they paid for Tua originally (remember all the people saying it was ludicrous to draft Kyler Murray 1st overall a year after spending a top 10 pick on a QB).

Obviously Watson's off the field issues muddy things up, but if the Dolphins have some reason to believe those are workable then you absolutely don't pass on a once in 20 year opportunity to score 26 year old superstar QB because you want to give Tua more time to see if he develops into something more than a mid career Jared Goff quality QB.

Well said

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Why is this trade taking so long to develop? I have some thoughts. 

-Miami has had a long standing offer on the table and Houston eluded to the fact that nobody had made them a real offer going back to the start of the season. That was their first tip of the hand that they wanted to move Watson to a new team and get him out of there. I also think the off field issues clouded trade offers and the motion they are getting Three 1st-Rd picks for Watson and whip cream on top is preposterous and in fact I think Miami is likely offering players and picks or some combo and not just 2 or 3 future 1st rounders. 

-McClain and the media folks seem like they were all but sent out as diplomats, their interviews on Miami radio were just silly and sounded like they were sent to pretend like there were many teams involved when in fact Miami is really the last team standing and a lot of it has to do with Watson's no trade clause. I don't know the exact details but apparently he can veto anyone or team he wants and behind closed doors its said that Miami is a team or place he would desire to play for but Miami was not the only team initially on his list last Spring when he first spoke out. 

-Feels like Ross the owner for Miami is being stared down or intimidated into thinking here is a market that doesn't exist. I do think if Philly were allowed to be in the mix that they could easily improve on the Phins offer so

 I'll put something out there like...X.Howard(All Pro), Tua(Hou reportedly doesn't want him), Mike Gesicki(Yr 4 of rookie deal, no extension yet) and One 1st Round Draft pick in exchange for DeShaun Watson. They get serious talent and upside on the return, can let Tua develop for the next year and see if anything rises from that and also look at the 2022 and 2023 Drafts, they will have a pick from Miami and an All Pro at Corner plus a potential Pro Bowl TE that sure looks the part when he is catching the football, fan base loves him down here. If they are not going to extend him then they need to trade him for something worthwhile. 

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Here is what we know.

 

 

 

Seriously, we don't know anything.  The NFL should be ashamed of how they have handled this.  There is no chance that they would be letting Watson play right now, but they are not being forced to make any decision because Houston is more inept than the NFL is.  If I am an NFL team that is not inept, there is no chance that I enter into a deal for a player who has as many pending charges against him as Watson, nor without knowing exactly what the NFL is going to do in regards to player suspension. 

Given this, I'd be shocked if any deal is made.

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Why is this trade taking so long to develop? I have some thoughts. 

-Miami has had a long standing offer on the table and Houston eluded to the fact that nobody had made them a real offer going back to the start of the season. That was their first tip of the hand that they wanted to move Watson to a new team and get him out of there. I also think the off field issues clouded trade offers and the motion they are getting Three 1st-Rd picks for Watson and whip cream on top is preposterous and in fact I think Miami is likely offering players and picks or some combo and not just 2 or 3 future 1st rounders. 

-McClain and the media folks seem like they were all but sent out as diplomats, their interviews on Miami radio were just silly and sounded like they were sent to pretend like there were many teams involved when in fact Miami is really the last team standing and a lot of it has to do with Watson's no trade clause. I don't know the exact details but apparently he can veto anyone or team he wants and behind closed doors its said that Miami is a team or place he would desire to play for but Miami was not the only team initially on his list last Spring when he first spoke out. 

-Feels like Ross the owner for Miami is being stared down or intimidated into thinking here is a market that doesn't exist. I do think if Philly were allowed to be in the mix that they could easily improve on the Phins offer so

 I'll put something out there like...X.Howard(All Pro), Tua(Hou reportedly doesn't want him), Mike Gesicki(Yr 4 of rookie deal, no extension yet) and One 1st Round Draft pick in exchange for DeShaun Watson. They get serious talent and upside on the return, can let Tua develop for the next year and see if anything rises from that and also look at the 2022 and 2023 Drafts, they will have a pick from Miami and an All Pro at Corner plus a potential Pro Bowl TE that sure looks the part when he is catching the football, fan base loves him down here. If they are not going to extend him then they need to trade him for something worthwhile. 

 

If only there was some way to retain Tua and make this trade I would be ecstatic. Damn that trade with Phi giving up our 1st to move up a few spots.

I really like Tua and feels like he has gotten a raw deal, seems like such a good kid and hasn't had a decent shot to prove himself due to his injury and these OCs and Oline and no real RBs and hurt WRs...the list goes on and on.

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2 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Why is this trade taking so long to develop? I have some thoughts. 

-Miami has had a long standing offer on the table and Houston eluded to the fact that nobody had made them a real offer going back to the start of the season. That was their first tip of the hand that they wanted to move Watson to a new team and get him out of there. I also think the off field issues clouded trade offers and the motion they are getting Three 1st-Rd picks for Watson and whip cream on top is preposterous and in fact I think Miami is likely offering players and picks or some combo and not just 2 or 3 future 1st rounders. 

-McClain and the media folks seem like they were all but sent out as diplomats, their interviews on Miami radio were just silly and sounded like they were sent to pretend like there were many teams involved when in fact Miami is really the last team standing and a lot of it has to do with Watson's no trade clause. I don't know the exact details but apparently he can veto anyone or team he wants and behind closed doors its said that Miami is a team or place he would desire to play for but Miami was not the only team initially on his list last Spring when he first spoke out. 

-Feels like Ross the owner for Miami is being stared down or intimidated into thinking here is a market that doesn't exist. I do think if Philly were allowed to be in the mix that they could easily improve on the Phins offer so

 I'll put something out there like...X.Howard(All Pro), Tua(Hou reportedly doesn't want him), Mike Gesicki(Yr 4 of rookie deal, no extension yet) and One 1st Round Draft pick in exchange for DeShaun Watson. They get serious talent and upside on the return, can let Tua develop for the next year and see if anything rises from that and also look at the 2022 and 2023 Drafts, they will have a pick from Miami and an All Pro at Corner plus a potential Pro Bowl TE that sure looks the part when he is catching the football, fan base loves him down here. If they are not going to extend him then they need to trade him for something worthwhile. 

Here's my biggest problem with your proposal - Houston says they want a good young player or two + picks. They are demonstrating a burn it down and start alllllll over approach having released JJ and recently Mercilus too. Howard and Gesiski seem to both buck the plan as I'm interpreting it currently. I think it might make Houston even more steadfast in wanting picks + a QB maybe as the only player coming back if they really like him or a player with a few years left on a rookie deal if not a QB.

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One thing I'm kinda curious about is it seems like it's been the same teams for months - Dolphins, Eagles, etc. Given what's thus far happened in Cleveland this year and now Baker's injury really putting a damper on them going where they hoped to be, I'm surprised we haven't yet heard about Cleveland sticking their nose into this mix. Their window appears to have started last year, leading into this year, and seems like it might be worthwhile for them to think about it and kick the tires if a player like Watson could take them over the edge.

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FOX's Jay Glazer reports the Dolphins are "very heavily engaged" on Deshaun Watson, and that the Texans are telling other teams "you've got to beat Miami's offer." 

The Miami Herald has confirmed the Dolphins "continue to pursue" Watson. Glazer reports the Texans are still seeking "at least" three first-rounders and two additional picks. The Dolphins would simply have to be out of their minds to surrender anywhere near that for a player still dealing with 22 unresolved sexual assault allegations, and frankly should not be giving up anything until there is some sort of resolution to Watson's off-the-field issues. They seem pot committed to this awful move, however, having been meaningfully connected for months now. Of course, it still seems most Watson rumors are emanating from Houston. For all we know, no team is even close to putting together that sort of offer for a player with Watson's legal cloud hanging over them. The trade deadline is in nine days. Stay tuned. 

RELATED: 

Miami Dolphins

SOURCE: Jay Glazer on Twitter 

Oct 24, 2021, 1:44 PM ET

 

 

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On 10/21/2021 at 9:26 AM, Chaka said:

True but just because they haven't doesn't mean they can't or won't.

Goodell has broad authority under the personal conduct policy to prevent anyone from stepping onto the field if they exhibit "conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the NFL" 

In here we can debate whether or not Watson's actions truly fall under that policy but if they say it does at 280 Park Ave then it does.

Jon Gruden chose to retire but his situation gives a pretty clear barometer of what the NFL can expect public reaction to be if Watson hits the field before his legal issues are resolved.

Is that where investigative folks are housed? NFL HQ is 345 Park I thought.

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17 minutes ago, Instinctive said:

Is that where investigative folks are housed? NFL HQ is 345 Park I thought.

First duckduckgo hit on "NFL headquarters NYC" is 280 Park, 2nd hit is 345.

But thanks for the info, it absolutely will inform my opinions going forward.

;)

 

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18 minutes ago, Chaka said:

First duckduckgo hit on "NFL headquarters NYC" is 280 Park, 2nd hit is 345.

But thanks for the info, it absolutely will inform my opinions going forward.

;)

 

Bahaha. If you're gonna try and drop the address like an insider, it'll help to have the right one. Used to work down the block at MLB.

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7 minutes ago, Instinctive said:

Bahaha. If you're gonna try and drop the address like an insider, it'll help to have the right one. Used to work down the block at MLB.

Okay Mr. Insider clearly the league office has something going on at 280 Park, so what is it?

Is that the Screw Gruden and the Raiders headquarters? It is isn't it? You can tell me, we always knew it was a real thing in the NFL.

I won't tell anyone, outside the Raider thread here. So just you, me and a couple of our closet friends would know. You know we can be trusted, no one believes any of the #### we say anyway. Right?

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7 hours ago, Jayded said:

Panthers apparently getting into the mix:

https://twitter.com/josephperson/status/1452373911048527881?s=21

Honestly, Carolina needs him a hell of a lot more than Miami.

Tua>>>>Darnold

Also, Carolina might be a QB away from contending. Good young talent at WR, good young defense, elite RB(when healthy) creative playcaller. Put Watson on the Panthers they are a top-7 NFC team for sure. 

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15 hours ago, Faust said:

FOX's Jay Glazer reports the Dolphins are "very heavily engaged" on Deshaun Watson, and that the Texans are telling other teams "you've got to beat Miami's offer." 

So, the thing now in the NFL is to give up on a player after 13 games?   Talk about creating a constant revolving door for QBs in the league.  Didn't Tua throw for 4 TDs yesterday?   I suppose it stems from the type of society we live in today where instant gratification takes center stage.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

So, the thing now in the NFL is to give up on a player after 13 games?   Talk about creating a constant revolving door for QBs in the league.  Didn't Tua throw for 4 TDs yesterday?   I suppose it stems from the type of society we live in today where instant gratification takes center stage.

Tua also threw 2 INTs yesterday. And the 4 TDs were against a bad defense. He had a decent game last week versus a bad JAX defense with another bad INT thrown in. Tua is the level of Teddy Bridgewater - you can win with him if the pieces around him are good. Let's see how Tua does this week vs a very good BUF defense, hopefully with Fuller back. With Watson, I think Miami would've won 3 of the 4 close games. As it is, Tua gets credit for the close win at NE. 

The last 2 losses were shared by a bad Dolphin defense, near last in most categories. Miami has many problems but elite QB play can mask many of them. That's the attraction for Watson. 

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2 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Tua also threw 2 INTs yesterday. And the 4 TDs were against a bad defense. He had a decent game last week versus a bad JAX defense with another bad INT thrown in. Tua is the level of Teddy Bridgewater - you can win with him if the pieces around him are good. Let's see how Tua does this week vs a very good BUF defense, hopefully with Fuller back. With Watson, I think Miami would've won 3 of the 4 close games. As it is, Tua gets credit for the close win at NE. 

The last 2 losses were shared by a bad Dolphin defense, near last in most categories. Miami has many problems but elite QB play can mask many of them. That's the attraction for Watson. 

The problem isn't Tua.  Giving up on him after 13 games is kind of telling to where we are today.

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