Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Of course he’s not above clickbait. That’s how PFT got its start. Or am I the only one remembers how trashy that site was when it started out? It was like TMZ.
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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Let's assume the trade goes thru and he is in MIA tomorrow. There is no way he can step in on Sunday and lead that team. What is a realistic timeline where he is able to be a competent QB in their system with their personnel? Is one full week of practice enough? Does the team have to play games letting Tua hold the job a few weeks and bring Watson in when they are losing? Never seen anything like this.
I grabbed him off the waiver wire and if they do trade him I think I roll him over if it happens while we can still trade. I got Hurts and despite the reality he isn't a great QB in real life he continues to churn out great FF numbers and I don't see anyone there to replace him.
I grabbed him off the waiver wire and if they do trade him I think I roll him over if it happens while we can still trade. I got Hurts and despite the reality he isn't a great QB in real life he continues to churn out great FF numbers and I don't see anyone there to replace him.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
I was in the same boat in one league with Hurts. All the talk that PHI should get in on the Watson frenzy or Minshew will replace him or his accuracy is below par and he's not a good NFL QB lead me to take a flier on Watson. I then looked at the waiver wire and someone dropped Cousins last week because of his bye. Well, needless to say I came to my senses and dropped Watson for Cousins. A bird in the hand vs nothing in the bush.
Many "good" QB's will get you 18-20 points, not many are consistent upside mid 20's +. Watson falls into that upper tier in the right situation. Hurts doing it with smoke and mirrors and too be honest, he scares me cuz he's gotta have a dud or two where he gets like 10-15.
Just realized looking at the schedule that Miami and Houston play each other next Sunday on the 7th. My guess is IF he is traded it won’t be made official until the last minute on the 2nd to avoid having Watson start against Houston (it’s in Miami though and Houston is all about the tank, but just seems like majorly bad PR for fans and teammates.) Miami then has a short week playing on Thursday night against Baltimore. So quite possibly we wouldn’t see him until week 11 on Sunday 21st @ the Jets.
At least that would make sense, nothing the Texans do lately makes a ton of sense.
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Yeah seems like he won't play many games. Yet, I may need someone if Hurts gets hurt or suddenly can't make any throws. I could always use a roster spot as there is always someone I want. LOL
skinsrule05
Footballguy
Tua Tagovailoa Will Be Dolphins' Starter For Rest Of '21, Per Flores
Dolphins coach Brian Flores says Tua Tagovailoa will be the team's starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2021 season, barring injury. (Marcel Louis-Jacques)
Dolphins coach Brian Flores says Tua Tagovailoa will be the team's starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2021 season, barring injury. (Marcel Louis-Jacques)
dhockster
Footballguy
Assuming Flores is speaking truthfully, that doesn't necessarily rule out a trade for Watson by the trade deadline. First, Tua could be dealt as part of the deal, and thus what Flores says doesn't apply anymore because Tua isn't on the team. Second, while Goodell has said he won't put Watson on the exempt list, I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens if the Watson deal goes through: Deal is made, Deshaun announces settlement of his lawsuits, and the league suspends Deshaun for the remainder of 2021 due to his alleged behavior in the settled lawsuits. Miami and Deshaun would then head into 2022 with nothing hanging over their heads.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
Yep, I agree. That is why I think Watson has value in keeper leagues but none in re-draft.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I remain skeptical that any trade is actually going to happen. That said, for the sake of entertaining conversation:
(1) As PFT noted "Flores has made similar proclamations in the past, but hasn’t stuck to them. He called the quarterback job 'settled' when Josh Rosen replaced Ryan Fitzpatrick early in the 2019 season. Flores benched Rosen for Fitzpatrick in the next game."
(2) As you note, it may not be an actual controversy if Watson is suspended, and posturing for Tua's mindset makes a ton of sense.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Only relevant example I can think of is when Jimmy G was traded midseason to the Niners. According to Wikipedia, he was traded at end of Oct. and didn't play for the next month, and even then it was only in relief of an injured CJ Beathard. However, the following week he was named the starter. So basically, he sat on the bench for four weeks (plus a bye).
Maybe as a more experienced QB Watson would need a shorter run-up time. But AFAIK this is a different system from what he ran in Houston (Godsey, Miami's co-OC, also served as O'Brien's OC at one point, but it was before Watson got there).
And of course, that's all assuming there's no suspension/commissioner's exempt list.
Yeah you confirmed it for me. If he gets dealt I don't wait one second to see if I can exchange him for something. Although if nothing of value I can keep him and hope in the playoffs he is in full swing and saves my bacon if Hurts gets hurt or whatever.
Capella
Footballguy
TartanLion
Footballguy
And what is his dynasty value ? I find it hard to assess. I’m trying to move for him in a superFlex where I’m screwed at qb and the owner also has Wilson, Prescott and a terrible team outside of that
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Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Yes, but:Faust said:
It's all just people throwing things at the wall. We really don't know anything still.
DropKick
Footballguy
Appears to be a last ditch negotiating tactic to me.
Not sure what full price means to the Texans but his value is NOT what it once was. You helped create a disgruntled player with personnel decisions and you're paying him but not playing him. Not exactly a position of strength.
ETA: Texans need and want to move on... but it will be interesting to see how this plays out and if the Texans are willing to gamble that the market (demand) for Watson rises in the off-season.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Nobody is giving Houston 3 1st round picks, not the Panthers, not the Dolphins, nobody.
I think at most there is a 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd behind it, perhaps Two 1st round picks and they might not be handled in the manner Houston would like but they have zero leverage.
If they don't move him they will be paying him $30M+ next year to sit and once players are removed for like 12 months lets say, 18-24 seems like they are never quite the same. He hasn't played any meaningful football in a while and he's going to start getting a little rusty.
I think at most there is a 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd behind it, perhaps Two 1st round picks and they might not be handled in the manner Houston would like but they have zero leverage.
If they don't move him they will be paying him $30M+ next year to sit and once players are removed for like 12 months lets say, 18-24 seems like they are never quite the same. He hasn't played any meaningful football in a while and he's going to start getting a little rusty.
Watson won't turn 27 until next September. He can remove the rust during preseason. If Lance was worth 2 1sts for a trade up from 1.12 to 1.03, Watson will still be worth 3 firsts for some QB needy team, like our Miami Dolphins. Once we know the legal and NFL ramifications. There's a good chance for no criminal charges.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
He also has a nearly 40 million dollar salary and is a huge injury risk. He should have negative trade value
-OZ-
Footballguy
What huge injury risk? He had a calf injury (or was it ankle?) during preseason, allegedly. But he missed one game in 3 years.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Nah Orleans?
What would Watson look like with the Saints?
What would Watson look like with the Saints?
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trader jake
Footballguy
In my area we're having one of those school board recall elections on Tuesday. Yard signs are everywhere for both sides and people are generally acting like idiots. Either way, I'm glad it will be over on Wednesday. That's kind of how I feel about the Deshaun Watson trade rumors at this point.
Major
Footballguy
I doubt it. He wouldn’t have enough high end draft picks to throw in with Watson.As much as I loathe BOB, I'm confident he would've got a deal done
Foosball God
Foos
The Texans were stupid if they didn't accept this, but I think it's more likely that Watson wasn't ready to settle.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
How dumb are the Texans? No way on God's green earth do the Texans get more if he settles this issue.
I think the Texans would like to have some idea of the quality of the 1st and 2nd rounders. A 1.05 isn't the same as a 1.30. The Eagles 2022s are currently 1.06, 1.07, 1.14, 2.09. That might be enough, paired with their own 1.02, 2.02 to get multiple impact players in the draft. With Miami, they'd get 1.10 (SF 1st), 2.06 in 2022 and 2 1sts in 2023, where there are lots of unknowns.
Why aren't there protected picks in NFL trades?
Would agree with this, Miami was offering mostly unknown future picks, Texans likely preferred to wait until picks are known and more teams are in the mix to drive up the price in the offseason. 49ers traded 3 1sts and a 3rd to take Trey Lance, if Watson settles his cases he's worth considerably more than that IMO.
sneakerfreak
Footballguy
Except Texans have very little leverage. Every team know they have to trade Watson and he gets to decide his destination. That should drive the price down. I think they’re crazy to turn down an offer like that.
But I also think Watson is not making things any easier on himself or the Texans. No matter how innocent he thinks he is I am pretty sure the public opinion on him has soured considerably. NDA or not does not change that imo. I would be seriously worried if he learned anything from this as a GM.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Some people don't seem to understand the very basic fact that things are only worth what someone wants to pay - the market sets the rate.
Sure the Texans can't ship him to Siberia with his No Trade clause, but clearly their very little leverage means little considering Miami was reportedly already willing to offer more than what other posters have already called crazy and too much for him just a few pages ago in this thread. This is also mid-season when the price is lower too, (assuming no more bad news and settles his lawsuits) the price will only get higher in the offseason when other teams will be in the mix. The salary cap is going up considerably making his salary easier to absorb and teams can restructure and cut where they want to make things work, plus they'll get the full offseason and OTA's, preseason, etc. to get him adjusted to his new team as opposed to midway thru the active season. While supposedly he only wants Miami at the moment, there have been previous reports he'd consider other teams like the Bronco's, Carolina, Philly, etc.
dhockster
Footballguy
I am the first person to admit that the Texans are at least a bottom five franchise based on the moves they have made over the past couple of years. Cal McNair is in over his head, and his decision to keep Jack Easterby around reflects that.
That being said, calling the Texans stupid based on reporting that is at best only partial information, and at worst possibly wrong or misleading information, is a bit premature. Glazer reported that the Texans were offered 3 1sts and 2 2nds on the condition that Deshaun settle his lawsuits. Well, the Texans don't have any control over settling the lawsuits, the Dolphins don't have any control over settling the lawsuits, and Deshaun only has partial control over settling the lawsuits. How can the Texans be stupid if they have no control over satisfying the conditions which the trade would be based on? Also, how do we know that Glazer's source is giving him complete, accurate information? Generally information gets leaked by people who want the leaked information to be presented in a certain way, that favors the party who they work for or represent.
At the end of this, the Texans may be stupid and end up getting less for Deshaun than people think they could have, however, let's wait for the outcome where they are clearly at fault before we condemn them.
That being said, calling the Texans stupid based on reporting that is at best only partial information, and at worst possibly wrong or misleading information, is a bit premature. Glazer reported that the Texans were offered 3 1sts and 2 2nds on the condition that Deshaun settle his lawsuits. Well, the Texans don't have any control over settling the lawsuits, the Dolphins don't have any control over settling the lawsuits, and Deshaun only has partial control over settling the lawsuits. How can the Texans be stupid if they have no control over satisfying the conditions which the trade would be based on? Also, how do we know that Glazer's source is giving him complete, accurate information? Generally information gets leaked by people who want the leaked information to be presented in a certain way, that favors the party who they work for or represent.
At the end of this, the Texans may be stupid and end up getting less for Deshaun than people think they could have, however, let's wait for the outcome where they are clearly at fault before we condemn them.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
I am extremely skeptical of this. I suspect it was fabricated by Houston.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Albert Breer: I absolutely believe the Browns are going to be a player for Deshaun Watson if and when he becomes available
Albert Breer: I absolutely believe the Browns are going to be a player for Deshaun Watson if and when he becomes available
Albert Breer: I absolutely believe the Browns are going to be a player for Deshaun Watson if and when he becomes available
dhockster
Footballguy
So there are rumblings in Houston that the Texans are going to keep David Culley another year. If this is true than I think the Texans are either incompetent (which could be true) or they don't think the Deshaun situation is going to be wrapped up by the draft, and they will have to roster him into the 2022 season. The Deshaun albatross is in effect making them delay going and getting the coach they want, and thus they are going to stick with Culley.
Based on supposedly 4 of the 22 plaintiffs not wanting to settle at the trade deadline, I see no reason why they would want to settle before the Civil trial which I think could start in May. If the civil cases aren't settled, then no team is going to give what the Texans want in draft picks. If no team is going to give the Texans what they want, then they keep Deshaun until his Criminal/Civil/league matters are wrapped up.
Based on supposedly 4 of the 22 plaintiffs not wanting to settle at the trade deadline, I see no reason why they would want to settle before the Civil trial which I think could start in May. If the civil cases aren't settled, then no team is going to give what the Texans want in draft picks. If no team is going to give the Texans what they want, then they keep Deshaun until his Criminal/Civil/league matters are wrapped up.
Faust
MVP
SwampDawg
Footballguy
This is going to be interesting. I'm not saying he didn't do those things, very likely did. But I also there are 22 women who all feel for it. I'm guessing some knew what they were getting into and likely even agreed to some form of "special massage". They went for a money grab and were happy to settle because they maybe don't want the messages out that might paint them in agreeing to some sort of illegal activity.
dhockster
Footballguy
I don't think that will really affect the Texans timeline. In a trade, the guaranteed contract amount and the roster bonus will move to the new team and the Texans will not have that hit their salary cap. The Texans will just have to eat any of the prorated signing bonus that is left when he is traded. In effect, in a trade, the new team will get Deshaun with guaranteed money of $35 million in 2022 (his salary) and $37 million in 2023 (his salary and roster bonus). Presumably if they are trading for him they plan to keep him through 2023 and have the salary cap space to acquire him.
