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QB Deshaun Watson - Is there legitimate trade interest in him while the off field issues are unresolved?


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3 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

 yet he was an underdog of sorts coming into the NFL 

I actually really do like Watson the player and what we thought we knew about him. 

But does this sound like an underdog? 🤔

pick 1.12

CFP National Champion (2016)

CFP National Championship Offensive MVP (2016)

Best Male College Athlete ESPY Award (2017)

Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (2016)

ACC Athlete of the Year (2016, 2017)

2× Davey O'Brien Award (2015, 2016)

2× Manning Award (2015, 2016)

2× Heisman Trophy finalist (2015, 2016)

Heisman Trophy runner-up (2016)

ACC Player of the Year (2015)

ACC Offensive Player of the Year (2015)

Consensus All-American (2015)

Second-team All-ACC (2016)

USA Today High School All-American (2013)

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14 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I have a weird feeling that Watson ends up setting a bunch of cases and then moves on to football.  Before the draft???  Perhaps.  

Just a gut feeling I had over the past hour.

Settling you mean? And you think he avoids any punishment from the NFL and plays right away? 

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

I actually really do like Watson the player and what we thought we knew about him. 

But does this sound like an underdog? 🤔

pick 1.12

CFP National Champion (2016)

CFP National Championship Offensive MVP (2016)

Best Male College Athlete ESPY Award (2017)

Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (2016)

ACC Athlete of the Year (2016, 2017)

2× Davey O'Brien Award (2015, 2016)

2× Manning Award (2015, 2016)

2× Heisman Trophy finalist (2015, 2016)

Heisman Trophy runner-up (2016)

ACC Player of the Year (2015)

ACC Offensive Player of the Year (2015)

Consensus All-American (2015)

Second-team All-ACC (2016)

USA Today High School All-American (2013)

And that's the point, with all his accolades he still fell past the Top 10, but it's a moot point at this particular moment, just saying I really liked that he was not a sure fire No 1 pick. 

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42 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I have a weird feeling that Watson ends up settling a bunch of cases and then moves on to football.  Before the draft???  Perhaps.  

Just a gut feeling I had over the past hour.

I remember how bad things looked for Tyreek for awhile there, too. More than one person on here had him never playing another down of football. And then, 54 million dollars later...I’m not saying you’re right, because things do look really, really bad for Deshaun right now. But I wouldn’t be panic selling him in dynasty just yet. 

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49 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

And that's the point, with all his accolades he still fell past the Top 10, but it's a moot point at this particular moment, just saying I really liked that he was not a sure fire No 1 pick. 

Ah, gotcha.

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

I have a weird feeling that Watson ends up settling a bunch of cases and then moves on to football.  Before the draft???  Perhaps.  

Just a gut feeling I had over the past hour.

I think most equate settling to being guilty of the accusations.....I realize some here are ready to fire up examples immediately upon me typing that of why sometimes its better to "settle" even if you are innocent.....but if he "settles" with a bunch of these women, do we really think that it just magically goes away and everybody forgets about it come Sundays...this sounds bad, but that might be the case if it was just one woman/incident......but 12+...?...can you recover from settling multiple incidents of such behavior....as a fan I think would struggle having my QB be a guy that "settled" multiple cases (that have already been filed) of this kind of stuff.....as an organization I would struggle having him as the face of my franchise....I realize there are a ton of non choir boys in the league.....but it feels to me like this is going to be tough to recover from....it sounds like it wasn't just a one and done type of thing....not sure if I said that right.....but I think there is a chance he may not see another NFL snap....

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1 minute ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I think most equate settling to being guilty of the accusations.....I realize some here are ready to fire up examples immediately upon me typing that of why sometimes its better to "settle" even if you are innocent.....but if he "settles" with a bunch of these women, do we really think that it just magically goes away and everybody forgets about it come Sundays...this sounds bad, but that might be the case if it was just one woman/incident......but 12+...?...can you recover from settling multiple incidents of such behavior....as a fan I think would struggle having my QB be a guy that "settled" multiple cases (that have already been filed) of this kind of stuff.....as an organization I would struggle having him as the face of my franchise....I realize there are a ton of non choir boys in the league.....but it feels to me like this is going to be tough to recover from....it sounds like it wasn't just a one and done type of thing....not sure if I said that right.....but I think there is a chance he may not see another NFL snap....

I haven't followed all the accusations. So I'm definitely not suggesting this is the case.  But if that truth is he was bringing women in to massage and provide a happy ending, consensually, that could be recoverable.  

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58 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I remember how bad things looked for Tyreek for awhile there, too. More than one person on here had him never playing another down of football. And then, 54 million dollars later...I’m not saying you’re right, because things do look really, really bad for Deshaun right now. But I wouldn’t be panic selling him in dynasty just yet. 

Yeah but Tyreek had 1 person he was dealing with, the sheer number of women coming forward against Watson makes it a completely different ball game IMO. It's crazy.

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11 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

I haven't followed all the accusations. So I'm definitely not suggesting this is the case.  But if that truth is he was bringing women in to massage and provide a happy ending, consensually, that could be recoverable.  

I guess I'm not real sure what angle you are coming from.....at least 12 have basically said things weren't consensual by filing suit....maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying...

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

I have a weird feeling that Watson ends up settling a bunch of cases and then moves on to football.  Before the draft???  Perhaps.  

Just a gut feeling I had over the past hour.

Why would he move on if he settles? 

dude’s 25. Teams are still going to be interested in him. 

 

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1 hour ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I remember how bad things looked for Tyreek for awhile there, too. More than one person on here had him never playing another down of football. And then, 54 million dollars later...I’m not saying you’re right, because things do look really, really bad for Deshaun right now. But I wouldn’t be panic selling him in dynasty just yet. 

I was one of those guys. I coulda had him for Courtland Sutton & a mid 2nd. 

I watched the video and hit “reject”

:doh: 

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38 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I think most equate settling to being guilty of the accusations.....I realize some here are ready to fire up examples immediately upon me typing that of why sometimes its better to "settle" even if you are innocent.....but if he "settles" with a bunch of these women, do we really think that it just magically goes away and everybody forgets about it come Sundays...this sounds bad, but that might be the case if it was just one woman/incident......but 12+...?...can you recover from settling multiple incidents of such behavior....as a fan I think would struggle having my QB be a guy that "settled" multiple cases (that have already been filed) of this kind of stuff.....as an organization I would struggle having him as the face of my franchise....I realize there are a ton of non choir boys in the league.....but it feels to me like this is going to be tough to recover from....it sounds like it wasn't just a one and done type of thing....not sure if I said that right.....but I think there is a chance he may not see another NFL snap....

Assuming when the facts come out there’s good faith evidence that all of these women were assaulted? 

Definitely. 

Short of that? Like “settled out of court, police declined to press charges, no criminal record? 

he’ll get a 6-game suspension & people will be upset when seeing him play for their team, but happy when he wins them games. 

And the NFL will speak of it in hushed tones while counting the money as the entire incident quietly fades into people’s memory holes. 

But if he settles & evidence surfaces, that’s another story.

Not saying it’s right. Just saying what I think will happen. 

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28 minutes ago, foxco said:

Yeah but Tyreek had 1 person he was dealing with, the sheer number of women coming forward against Watson makes it a completely different ball game IMO. It's crazy.

Unless he settles and it never results in a legal finding.

“Settles with admission of guilt & attends classes and comes out with a rehabilitation story”? Yeah, he’s toast.

Lots of possible outcomes if it goes to court, none of them pretty. 

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10 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

For anyone who knows...

Cosby started out as civil lawsuits, right?

First criminal case that results in charges being filed probably results in an indefinite suspension?

First criminal conviction means lifetime ban?

None of that has happened but seems likely that’s where this might be headed, right?

Watson didn't drug and then penetrate women against their will. The allegations are creepy but not in the same ball park. (once again, aside from the one allegation of forced oral sex)

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49 minutes ago, DirtyCashDylan said:

 aside from the one allegation of forced oral sex)

That's such an odd allegation....I mean, people have teeth, right? Seems like a very risky thing to do, all things considered. :unsure:

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22 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

That's such an odd allegation....I mean, people have teeth, right? Seems like a very risky thing to do, all things considered. :unsure:

You might be on to something. Maybe he was flying people in because he was searching for massage therapists without teeth and they were tough to find. 

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While it would be nice if Watson didn't do this stuff... count me in that I'm having a tough time envisioning a scenario he's hiring all of these different women for just a massage.

If I find someone who does a good job I stick with them. And if I tried this many people and they sucked I probably wouldn't keep reaching out via Instagram, etc.

Assuming there's evidence he did hire them?  And then throw in, if these last few lawsuits are correct that he was reaching out to women who aren't even in the business of doing massages?   That might make sense to me if someone was picking hot women hoping to have something happen.  It doesn't make sense if someone was after a massage.

I still will wait and see what the evidence is of involvement with the women. But I'm at a loss what a reasonable excuse is for approaching these women, if he did, that makes more sense than what they are alleging.

Edited by GregR
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6 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I guess I'm not real sure what angle you are coming from.....at least 12 have basically said things weren't consensual by filing suit....maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying...

I'm just not passing judgment until we hear both sides of the story, preferably in court.  

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9 hours ago, -OZ- said:

I haven't followed all the accusations. So I'm definitely not suggesting this is the case.  But if that truth is he was bringing women in to massage and provide a happy ending, consensually, that could be recoverable.  

Thats really not what the accusations are at all.  I mean like completely opposite in fact

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I haven't been reading up on the specifics of these women's accusations and in no way am I trying to lesson their victimhood, so I'll ask here.  Is their massage business legit?  Or is it really an escort service?  I've never heard of massage therapist being flown in, but I'll bet that high priced escorts do that.  Could this be extortion?  Or are these really legitimate accusations?   Like I said earlier, the timing of this is probably not a coincidence, but I suppose it could be.

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2 hours ago, Blackbear said:

Up to 14 lawsuits now after a total of 24 women came forward... 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/23/deshaun-watson-lawsuits-up-to-14-with-24-accusers/

Strange none have filed a complaint at police department yet. 

Well the Houston PD definitely received evidence and other materials yesterday.  A wealthy established lawyer like Buzbee would not mislead the public with one of his statements.  I'm shocked we haven't seen him announce that the items have been dropped off on Instagram.  Everyone reported that Buzbee plans to drop off the materials on Monday and nobody has reported that he did it from what I can find.  If he did drop it off and it contains damning evidence, how long would it normally take for Houston PD to respond?

PFT did a segment where they were saying it's normal for an NFL player to get daily massages, but NOT normal at all for them to use different masseuses.  Like many of us suggested here we wondered why you wouldn't just find one good one who knows how your body responds and keep them - especially during COVID.  That makes a lot of sense.

PFT also brought up that it is suspicious that none of these women are using a different lawyer and also agreed with what has been posted here about some of the items Buzbee said being thinly veiled BS.  Florio thought other lawyers would be all over this by now.  Where are all the other lawyers bringing these cases in a very competitive field?  He said it's likely in the best interest of some of the accusers to be using a different lawyer.

Another good point is that Watson's camp being quiet is completely destroying them in the court of public opinion.

I'd also point out that as the list of accusers grows, the chances that they all remain anonymous goes down, mathematically speaking.  Once one or two come forward and have a face I would assume that is really bad for Watson's PR battle here and shuts down any "the women might be fake" claims.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I haven't been reading up on the specifics of these women's accusations and in no way am I trying to lesson their victimhood, so I'll ask here.  Is their massage business legit?  Or is it really an escort service?  I've never heard of massage therapist being flown in, but I'll bet that high priced escorts do that.  Could this be extortion?  Or are these really legitimate accusations?   Like I said earlier, the timing of this is probably not a coincidence, but I suppose it could be.

Most of them are completely legit

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10 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Another good point is that Watson's camp being quiet is completely destroying them in the court of public opinion.

 

Outside of the sheer number of accusations, the fact that he hasnt said anything in a week or so is telling to me.  If this was happening to me and it was false wouldnt you be in front of every news camera denying it?

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6 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

 

 Like many of us suggested here we wondered why you wouldn't just find one good one who knows how your body responds and keep them - especially during COVID. 

Yes it makes sense and but one of the earliest dated accusations,  June 2 of 2020, a massage therapist said Watson texted her, "a lot of massage therapists uncomfortable and it's really hard for me to find someone who will meet my needs."

There is another statement from a plaintiff ,or maybe it was a text, that when setting up the appointment Watson indicated he wanted his glutes worked on and asked if the was comfortable with that.

Not sure how this will play out in court, could see good or bad for Watson, but there certainly seems to be an acknowledgement by him BEFORE setting up the appointement's what he was wanting.

13 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Another good point is that Watson's camp being quiet is completely destroying them in the court of public opinion.

People off and on these boards said the exact same thing about Tyreek Hill, many of us wondering why he would not come out with more forceful statements. Whatever Watson is doing now he's under advisement from a very good attorny.

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Just now, pantherclub said:

Outside of the sheer number of accusations, the fact that he hasnt said anything in a week or so is telling to me.  If this was happening to me and it was false wouldnt you be in front of every news camera denying it?

I would think that not responding at all like this has to be complete PR failure, and something you would only do if you had no other options or way to at least spin the story.  

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Are they as legit as those Asian Massage places?  Sounds like high priced escorts to me.

Dude if you are going to keep commenting on this topic just read one of the many articles on the Houston Chronicle to educate yourself.  A large bulk of the accusations are from separate women that are licensed masseuses that have legitimate business.   Yes there are a couple I believe that he solicited from Instagram but more were licensed in one way or another.

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3 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Outside of the sheer number of accusations, the fact that he hasnt said anything in a week or so is telling to me.  If this was happening to me and it was false wouldnt you be in front of every news camera denying it?

I just responded to this from earlier post and like I said, go back and scan the Tyreek Hill thread, people were damning him for not speaking.

Watson is being accused of multiple crimes and is now sought out one an extremely high profile attorney with a strong track record. No offense intended but I think it's foolish to think he's not doing what his attorney wants him to do which is stay silent. He already put out the initial statement, at this point he's likely doing what he's instructed to do.

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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I would think that not responding at all like this has to be complete PR failure, and something you would only do if you had no other options or way to at least spin the story.  

I cannot think of any way staying silent is helpful at all at this point.

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19 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I do agree with this. 

The whole thing is insane though. It is equally hard for me to believe that Watson just went completely off the rails on a sexual assault-fest like this. 

In my 50 years I've never heard of such a dramatic character change other than a bipolar episode or CTE-driven brain damage-induced episode - which aren't out of the realm of possibilities either, though I hesitate to speculate on medical issues of anyone. 

It's all just so weird. 

Tiger Woods?

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12 minutes ago, pantherclub said:
Quote

Watson told her "he makes "a lot of massage therapists uncomfortable and it's really hard for me to find someone who will meet my needs."

 

It's probably the rolling over from your stomach and ejaculating amongst other things that does it.  It's crazy that nobody came forward earlier with the gravity of these.  This being a common thing massage therapists deal with is just disgusting, and it's hard to believe these things fall into the "weirdo client we just won't work with again" bucket.  

 

 

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29 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Outside of the sheer number of accusations, the fact that he hasnt said anything in a week or so is telling to me.  If this was happening to me and it was false wouldnt you be in front of every news camera denying it?

No. His lawyer is almost certainly telling him to keep quiet. They’ll have a chance at a response. 

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10 hours ago, GregR said:

While it would be nice if Watson didn't do this stuff... count me in that I'm having a tough time envisioning a scenario he's hiring all of these different women for just a massage.

If I find someone who does a good job I stick with them. And if I tried this many people and they sucked I probably wouldn't keep reaching out via Instagram, etc.

I think this is EXACTLY what he was reaching out for. 🥺

 

😬

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Certainly some odd things to this case(s), as mentioned by many and discussed extensively. 

However, one of the things that keeps getting mention that doesn't make sense to me is the "No Lawsuits Filed!" angle. Statistically, women who are victims of far worse abuse don't even come forward. This is (allegedly) a wealthy, powerful man acting inappropriately in a closed/controlled setting. These women would certainly know they have little chance at a single accusation AND would have to worry about destroying their own name/brand/business in the process. 

EDIT: Leaving original post, but I did mean "No Police Reports Filed!" as there are multiple lawsuits filed. (thanks kittenmittens!)

Edited by Flying Elvis
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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Well the Houston PD definitely received evidence and other materials yesterday.  A wealthy established lawyer like Buzbee would not mislead the public with one of his statements.  I'm shocked we haven't seen him announce that the items have been dropped off on Instagram.  Everyone reported that Buzbee plans to drop off the materials on Monday and nobody has reported that he did it from what I can find.  If he did drop it off and it contains damning evidence, how long would it normally take for Houston PD to respond?

PFT did a segment where they were saying it's normal for an NFL player to get daily massages, but NOT normal at all for them to use different masseuses.  Like many of us suggested here we wondered why you wouldn't just find one good one who knows how your body responds and keep them - especially during COVID.  That makes a lot of sense.

PFT also brought up that it is suspicious that none of these women are using a different lawyer and also agreed with what has been posted here about some of the items Buzbee said being thinly veiled BS.  Florio thought other lawyers would be all over this by now.  Where are all the other lawyers bringing these cases in a very competitive field?  He said it's likely in the best interest of some of the accusers to be using a different lawyer.

Another good point is that Watson's camp being quiet is completely destroying them in the court of public opinion.

I'd also point out that as the list of accusers grows, the chances that they all remain anonymous goes down, mathematically speaking.  Once one or two come forward and have a face I would assume that is really bad for Watson's PR battle here and shuts down any "the women might be fake" claims.

 

 

About them all using one lawyer: After the first lawsuit was filed, Buzzby basically asked for anyone who had similar experiences to contact him. That is why the plaintiffs are all represented by him, he is the one who asked them to come forward. Plus, I was listening to one attorney yesterday who said Buzzby's strategy is pretty apparent and could be very effective. If you read all of the lawsuits, they all sound very similar. Well, they are similar, but they are also written to sound that way so that Buzzby can convince a judge that there is an established pattern, and therefore, Buzzby can introduce other plaintiffs into each lawsuit. Without that each lawsuit is individual, and each lawsuit is hard to win because it is he said/she said and there is probably not enough evidence to win. But if a lawsuit has the support of 13 other plaintiffs who have filed lawsuits claiming almost the same thing that the original plaintiff is alleging, than all of a sudden, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than a 50% chance that the event actually happened the way the plaintiff says.

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1 minute ago, Flying Elvis said:

Certainly some odd things to this case(s), as mentioned by many and discussed extensively. 

However, one of the things that keeps getting mention that doesn't make sense to me is the "No Lawsuits Filed!" angle. Statistically, women who are victims of far worse abuse don't even come forward. This is (allegedly) a wealthy, powerful man acting inappropriately in a closed/controlled setting. These women would certainly know they have little chance at a single accusation AND would have to worry about destroying their own name/brand/business in the process. 

You mean the no criminal cases filed?

Yes, and would you really want to face the kind of questions you face from the opposing legal team just to serve justice?  I think many women do not.  It might be worth a large settlement, especially if they can remain anonymous, but not worth going through the turmoil of a criminal proceeding for a lot of reasons.

 

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Just now, dhockster said:

About them all using one lawyer: After the first lawsuit was filed, Buzzby basically asked for anyone who had similar experiences to contact him. That is why the plaintiffs are all represented by him, he is the one who asked them to come forward. Plus, I was listening to one attorney yesterday who said Buzzby's strategy is pretty apparent and could be very effective. If you read all of the lawsuits, they all sound very similar. Well, they are similar, but they are also written to sound that way so that Buzzby can convince a judge that there is an established pattern, and therefore, Buzzby can introduce other plaintiffs into each lawsuit. Without that each lawsuit is individual, and each lawsuit is hard to win because it is he said/she said and there is probably not enough evidence to win. But if a lawsuit has the support of 13 other plaintiffs who have filed lawsuits claiming almost the same thing that the original plaintiff is alleging, than all of a sudden, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than a 50% chance that the event actually happened the way the plaintiff says.

I get that angle, but Florio (a lawyer also, not sure what type) is suggesting that this is not normal.  I would think a different lawyer for a different victim could also reference these cases even though they are not represented by the same person?

 

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

You mean the no criminal cases filed?

Yes, and would you really want to face the kind of questions you face from the opposing legal team just to serve justice?  I think many women do not.  It might be worth a large settlement, especially if they can remain anonymous, but not worth going through the turmoil of a criminal proceeding for a lot of reasons.

 

You are correct, I added an edit to my original post. I meant police reports/complaints/charges, not lawsuits. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

Why are people talking about a character change?

You guys dont know Deshaun Watson at all and never have

To be fair, most of us don’t, and never will, know the Dalai Lama, but should we discover his fetish for deep taint messages and surprise rollover ejax I think it would be fair to say a character change appeared to have taken place. 

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1 minute ago, satch said:

To be fair, most of us don’t, and never will, know the Dalai Lama, but should we discover his fetish for deep taint messages and surprise rollover ejax I think we could safely assume a character change had taken place. 

It wouldn't be a change, it would be a reveal. 

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson - Is there legitimate trade interest in him while the off field issues are unresolved?

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