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QB Deshaun Watson - present at the start of Texans training camp.


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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The timing of this probably isn’t  just a coincidence.

That’s what I keep coming back to. It’s such a weird coincidence. And there are several other inexplicable coincidences. 

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1 hour ago, Foosball God said:

Agree, but that's right there at the line of saying something like "she should have know better than to dress like that".  Women shouldn't have to worry about being propositioned or sexually assaulted on the job.  Massage therapists, the good ones, take classes and training.  They are physical therapists.

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

This is spot on.  Don't dar papaya.

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53 minutes ago, Meatwad Reloaded said:

Deshaun Watson is done.  If I am wrong, I will resurface and apologize.     

Yea, just like all the people did in the Vick, Tyreek and AB threads after they said they would never play again.

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5 hours ago, kodycutter said:

If he wanted a legit massage, seems odd he kept flying in different women.  were none of them a good masseuse?

He wanted to convince someone to stroke his willy. He succeeded many times I'm sure and then he was on to his next adventure. But that's it. He was inappropriate but people are talking like he's a serial rapist and that just doesn't seem to be the case (not including the one-off forced BJ story, which is a serious allegation) as far as what we know right now.

He may be suspended for a year but to think Deshaun Watson won't be let back in the league eventually is just silly. Even if he goes to jail for 3 years (I don't see that happening but we'll see) he'll still have the opportunity to come back. As. Long. As. He. Can. Win. Games. 

Edited by DirtyCashDylan
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Yeah, “done” is a pretty strong proclamation. There hasn’t even been a single criminal charge yet and even if there are some in the future on the way, Vick went to federal prison and still played again. Without commenting on the rightness or morals of it, if Watson is found to have committed some or all of these acts, as long as he follows the steps laid out to rehabilitate, he’ll eventually be back barring some sort of decade long conviction which seems pretty far-fetched based on what we know currently. Whether it’s after 6 games, 1 year or 4 years (at which point he’d only be 29 going on 30 years old), he’d be back almost certainly at some point.

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20 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Let's say he is doing a hit job to take down Watson and all of the cases just go away at a point before any cases actually move forward in court.  Lawyer says that now that this is so public that none of the accusers want to come forward and cases are dropped.  He says the accusers are anonymous and anything they worked with him on is attorney client privilege and he is protecting their identity. 

Could he actually get away with that or something like it?  If not, I think you could rule out that its some conspiracy.  I know that SLAPP lawsuits happen all the time where the plaintiff is using the courts as a weapon against the defendant, but I don't know enough about that type of thing to apply it to this situation. 

That's a possibility sure. 

Victims recant often. For various reasons. But if a lawyer encourages knowingly false reporting he's running the risk of harm to his reputation and a bar complaint. 

But yes, there are many ways this can play out where he has no issues.

 

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13 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

Right. There's "victim blaming" and then there's exercising caution to not put yourself at higher risk of becoming a victim. We lock the doors to our cars and house for a reason. But if we didn't, and someone broke it to steal stuff, that's still a crime.

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13 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

....

Watson has exactly 0 reputation for any sort of wrongdoing for his entire life. & this came literally out of the blue. 

I would also suggest that (to one of your points), if these girls are sex workers there could be other evidence available that does not require first-hand witnesses to come forward as you suggest. I agree that the chance of someone putting their own reputation on the line is slim to none, but let’s say an ad surfaces with one of the girls advertising their adult entertainment, or other sorts of “executive massage“ services… That would certainly be enough to cast doubt on all of the accusers.

Whether Watson received or requested a “happy ending“ or otherwise, the only truly relevant issue is whether it was consensual or not......

 

 

You seem like a decent enough guy, so this is not personal.

You are saying what you think. I am saying what I know.

If there is some discussion here about this being a set up/hatchet job from above, folks can dispelled that scenario right now. Leverage through media optics, and this is being tried in the Court Of Public Opinion, only happens when you can control the narrative. And, at this point, no one can do that.

Watson's franchise is now open to socially acceptable extortion. Any pro feminist group can demand that the team hire their "consulting firm" to do educational seminars on how to treat women, etc, etc and if they don't, the silent threat is there. The threat of going into the press and calling the entire place and league a haven of rapists and wife beaters. And then pressure all the advertisers/sponsors of the NFL.

A high level hatchet job would also require the complicity of NFL Security to pull something like that off and they are insulated from rank and file owners. They answer to the Commissioner. Who has no reason to make a move like this, esp with the issue of bleeding fans from the pandemic/social justice issues.

There is no conspiracy here. If these are sex workers, hypothetically, then they know a payout for a NDA is possible and they add their names on the list. If you want motive for women to step forward if they are sex workers, then this is it.

The secondary option for Watson is too complicated. Which is claiming substance abuse by alcohol. What is the relationship with alcohol and NFL games and fan engagement? It's in lock step. If a NFL player does cocaine and gets caught, that's one thing. If an NFL player say he's an alcoholic and needs help, that's another different entirely explosive situation. Like with Aldon Smith, the league would tread that tightrope carefully. It's always about the money and the NFL never wants the story line running that alcohol mixed with football is universally bad.

That angle could be spun but it doesn't offer active defense. Watson claiming he's bi-sexual would create active defense. Meaning some of his pundit detractors in public would need to shift sides then directly defend him.

As for Watson's career in the NFL, there's a procedural banning from the game ( i.e. gambling and/or murder like a Rae Carruth situation) and there's informal (i.e. no one is going to sign you)

Watson can't have a career is no team signs him moving forward. You can be banned from the league without the bloodshed with the NFLPA in actually officially banning someone.

The only "truly relevant" issue here is how does Watson and this scandal make people feel about themselves. It's never about "you"  In any effective media optics, it's about how what you say or do or omit or act that drives a certain response or specific reaction from the masses. This is basic PR 101. If Watson can progressively get past the bread and circuses and can get national outreach that shows a progressively humanistic conflict, he's improved his chances to save his NFL career. And by extension, as it's relevant here, give light to his actual fantasy football value.

If I was given priority tasking to Ray Donovan this situation and save Watson, I don't know if I could pull it off. And frankly, if I couldn't do it, no one could do it. This is a really ugly situation. Watson needs hard cover in the media. Meaning not only would he need to come out as bi-sexual, to save his career, but he would need to, through back channels, out every other LGBT player in the league all at once. This again is basic PR 101 - If you can't stop the story that hurts you, you give the world an even bigger story to chew through first.  The backup Seahawks QB just got into a bar fight. Does anyone care? Will the Commissioner care as much with this Watson time bomb sitting in his lap? This QB2 got a little lucky. These situations are often as much a function of timing ( when it happened) as it is a fluid issue that will be adjusted by current cultural climate.

Someone send a Game Of Thrones style raven to tell Sigmund Bloom that Old Man Gekko is back in the Shark Pool. He can take off that horrid looking morning jacket and take a break since he won't have to explain basic media optics to the unwashed masses of heathens here alone anymore.

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10 hours ago, Meatwad Reloaded said:

Dudes...I simply cannot believe people are arguing about this.

These accusations are based on actual lawsuits that were actually filed in court.....

Oh, well, if their based on actual lawsuits this changes everything!

FYI, the merits of said lawsuits are to be determined.  Believe it or not, there are actually incidents of frivolous lawsuits being filed as a means of extracting a payday.  This is an established tactic that doesn't destroy a lawyer if it fails.  Said lawyer simply moves on to chasing the next ambulance.

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9 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

 

There is no conspiracy here. If these are sex workers, hypothetically, then they know a payout for a NDA is possible and they add their names on the list. If you want motive for women to step forward if they are sex workers, then this is it.

From the article in the Houston Chronicle it details about half dozen of the women involved and most of them on paper seem like they are running a professional business and not escorts.  State licensed masseuses and professional strength and stretching vendors.  On paper it looks pretty bad for him.  I suspect he will get dinged half a season appeal it down to a handful of games and still play for the texans.

 

But like you said there is no easy way out here and the fact that Watson is on some soapbox screaming his innocent has me confused as well.

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FMIA: Free-Agency Millions Or NFL TV Billions, Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Simply Is ‘In This Business To Win’
 

Quote

The Watson Drama

Think how dramatically Watson’s world has changed in a week. Last Monday, we were speculating how much hardball the Texans would play to keep him on their roster, and, if he was traded, whether the Panthers, Jets or Dolphins were the leaders. But between Tuesday and Friday, attorney Tony Buzbee filed seven civil suits against Watson on behalf of women claiming he preyed on them sexually. Buzbee indicated Saturday he intends to pursue criminal charges against Watson with Houston police and the local district attorney.

To say this is out of character for Watson is an understatement. I spoke to someone close to Watson over the weekend, and this person was stunned at the charges and had never seen him treat women with anything but respect. So let’s wait for all the evidence to surface. It’s smart in such cases to keep an open mind until we see complete details and stories.

For today, while it seems totally insensitive to the gravity of the charges, we just don’t know enough about the cases to draw any factual conclusions. So I’ll stick to the football meaning of the Watson story for now. While lawyers are combing through the allegations, there is no way a team could trade for Watson now. Even if the Texans were to engage teams in talks, a team could not acquire a franchise quarterback as great and promising as the 25-year-old Watson with this Sword of Damocles hanging over his head. No matter how much faith you have in Watson’s goodness, there’s too much we don’t know right now to risk a mega-trade to acquire him.

Could a team try, while the allegations against Watson hang in the air? Perhaps. One former NFL GM told me Sunday he thinks a smart GM would check in regularly to tell Houston GM Nick Caserio of his interest—regardless how dire it looks now. I suppose . . . but I can’t see how even the most supportive fan base would be okay with a pursuit of Watson now.

And it’s unlikely the matter will be cleared up in the 38 days before the start of the 2021 NFL Draft. So absent a trade by draft weekend, that could knock three or four contenders for a Watson trade out of the box. The Jets (picking second overall) could draft their quarterback of the future, as could Atlanta (fourth), Philadelphia (sixth), Carolina (eighth) and another team trading into the top 10 (San Francisco?) prior to the draft. The Texans could still make a deal for Watson if he was in the clear at any time, but crucial contenders would disappear by the end of April.

The difference between civil and criminal charges is very important to Watson’s NFL future. The NFL draws a strong line between the different courses of legal action. If there are criminal charges, and the cases stretch into September, the NFL could put Watson on the Commissioner’s Exempt List, as it did in 2014 with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson as they contested similarly ugly allegations. That would take Watson off the field and away from his team, at full pay, while the case or cases are being adjudicated. But if there are no criminal charges and the cases are civil only, the Commission’s Exempt List would not be an option, and Watson would likely be allowed to play. Of course, if he is still determined to not play for Houston and voluntarily does not report, then he would incur heavy fines and forfeit his $10.5-million salary for as long as he sits. Also, it’s unlikely but not impossible that any team would trade for him while any civil suits are in progress.

The forecast for Watson’s future: cloudy. But it’s premature to think of the Commissioner’s Exempt List as a landing spot for Watson—unless criminal charges are filed and the legal timeline stretches into the season.

Edited by The Frankman
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12 hours ago, Meatwad Reloaded said:

Dudes...I simply cannot believe people are arguing about this.

These accusations are based on actual lawsuits that were actually filed in court.  The details of each case are plain to see, and it is plain to see that these are not hookers by any stretch of the imagination. As far as masseuses being flown out, that does not seem off base to me, especially in the Instagram age.  Lots of rich celebrities fly people out for all sorts of work. 

Anyways, the lawyer here is totally fukked if these are all lies.  He is a legit Houston rich guy lawyer and would be risking his career and probably his life if he was orchestrating a full on illegitimate smear campaign against one of the popular people in Texas. Because of this, I assume the lawyer has real evidence.  Plus there are 12 suits already filed?  Good Grief!!!!!  Dudes, I know I said this before, but if you even have three people in total unison claiming something like this against you, you are screwed.

Deshaun Watson is done.  If I am wrong, I will resurface and apologize.     

1st and foremost just because you can't believe it doesn't make it a horrible thing that folks are discussing the validity of all these lawsuits since not one single police report was filed that we know of. 

2nd, you don't know much about rich celebrities...just as an aside from my time running clubs and also rolling thru SoCal and Vegas 10-15 yrs ago, the rich folks can actually buy the porn stars for a few thousand for the night and never hear a word about it in the general public. Folks heads would explode if they truly knew what some folks engage in behind closed doors.  

Finally, "If I'm wrong" so you already made a judgement based on these lawyers in the media and that's exactly what their intent is, to embarrass and harm Watson as much as possible in the court of public opinion.  Resurface? So this was an alias to skirt the language filter and get a shot in on Watson so you can pile on? That's how it reads in the post. 

Cheers

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NBC Sports Edge:

Quote

The Athletic's Aaron Reiss reports two more civil lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct have been filed against Deshaun Watson. 

Attorney Tony Buzbee said last week that he was representing at least a dozen women who allege sexual misconduct against the Houston quarterback. There are now nine lawsuits against Watson for allegedly inappropriate behavior during massage sessions over the past year. NBC Sports' Peter King reported Monday the NFL could place Watson on the Commissioner’s Exempt List if Buzbee files any criminal charges against him, meaning Watson would miss at least some of the 2021 season if the legal matters stretch into September. For now, the suits are of the civil variety. 

SOURCE: Aaron Reiss on Twitter 

Mar 22, 2021, 9:50 AM ET

 

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Two things:

1) Cal McNair is the least likely guy to orchestrate a conspiracy because he is dumb as dirt.

2) Interesting that nobody has brought up the Covid impact on this case. Since a massage is not socially distanced at all, and the duration is usually about an hour,  the potential risk of exposure to covid is there. All the lawsuits filed so far that  I have heard about, the incidents have occurred during the pandemic. From Deshaun's standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be bringing in  all these people who he knows very little about to be in close contact with him during a pandemic. I assume if these are professional Massage therapists, they are all appropriately masked during the massage, but still I would not want to be that close to someone for an hour if I had no idea about what sort of person was doing the massage. That obviously is not proof of anything, but makes it easier for me to believe he was bringing in all these different massage therapists for something other than just a regular massage.

Edited by dhockster
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3 minutes ago, dhockster said:

2) Interesting that nobody has brought up the Covid impact on this case. Since a massage is not socially distanced at all, and the duration is usually about an hour,  the potential risk of exposure to covid is there. All the lawsuits filed so far that  I have heard about the incidents have occurred during the pandemic. From Deshaun's standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be bringing in  all these people who he knows very little about to be in close contact with him during a pandemic. I assume if these are professional Massage therapists, they are all appropriately masked during the massage, but still I would not want to be that close to someone for an hour if I had no idea about what sort of person was doing the massage. That obviously is not proof of anything, but makes it easier for me to believe he was bringing in all these different massage therapists for something other than just a regular massage.

I thought of the COVID stuff earlier but I don't see how you are arriving at the bolded. Explain to me how COVID makes it more likely he was bringing in massage therapist for something other then a massage?

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These accusations are getting INSANE. I believe the women and these accusations are wild.  

I still find it pretty messed up that this was never reported to the police and is only finding it's way to the police because it wasn't quietly settled.  Especially the one(s) who claimed that there was a forced sexual act involved.  That is a serious, serious crime and if you are really concerned with preventing further crimes...

The lawyer basically told us that none of this would be public if Watson had paid the modest settlement.  Then he says that this is still ongoing within the last month after Watson is aware of the allegations (wtf).  The he says the goal of these lawsuits is to stop this from happening again???  Then in the next breath he says that they haven't contacted the police yet and next week they will?  NEXT WEEK!  You just told us there are still women being victimized!  The lawyer looks like a massive slimeball.

So far, Watson and his agents look like unbelievable idiots.

I can certainly understand the victims only wanting a civil case and not a criminal case.  Do you want to put yourself in that situation for justice and that's it?  It probably isn't worth it to them to get this kind of unwanted publicity for anything less than a pretty significant payout, so that could explain the hesitation to go to police.

I hate that the lawyer is lying through his teeth about the motivations of the case (prevention), knowing who the McNairs even are, and that he already had been in touch with police.  He's lying about stuff we can verify and that doesn't make me want to believe things he says that we can't verify.  The not knowing the McNairs is a classic liar move.  Just say you know who they are, of course, but you don't know them.  Don't even know who they are?  Such BS.

 

Edited by kittenmittens
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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

I thought of the COVID stuff earlier but I don't see how you are arriving at the bolded. Explain to me how COVID makes it more likely he was bringing in massage therapist for something other then a massage?

Covid, to me, would make it less likely for me to go out and seek lots of different therapists to do my massages. I would want to find one or two that gave good massages and that were thoroughly vetted about their covid protocols and their covid exposure in their day to day life. Based on how he was finding these ladies, that did not seem to be going on. Therefore I look for other reasons he might have been okay with bringing in lots of different ladies to do his massages. Using them to satisfy him in a sexual way seems plausible.

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23 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

For anyone who knows...

Cosby started out as civil lawsuits, right?

First criminal case that results in charges being filed probably results in an indefinite suspension?

First criminal conviction means lifetime ban?

None of that has happened but seems likely that’s where this might be headed, right?

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28 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Covid, to me, would make it less likely for me to go out and seek lots of different therapists to do my massages. I would want to find one or two that gave good massages and that were thoroughly vetted about their covid protocols and their covid exposure in their day to day life. Based on how he was finding these ladies, that did not seem to be going on. Therefore I look for other reasons he might have been okay with bringing in lots of different ladies to do his massages. Using them to satisfy him in a sexual way seems plausible.

Thanks for explanation.

For me COVID or no COVID if you are a professional athlete with means to the best massage therapist and you are choosing to find your massage therapist by scrolling Instagram and never sticking with one on the regular it's a giant red flag.  Heck if you are regular dude and this is how you find your massage therapist and never stick with the same one it's a red flag, COVID or not.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

For anyone who knows...

Cosby started out as civil lawsuits, right?

First criminal case that results in charges being filed probably results in an indefinite suspension?

First criminal conviction means lifetime ban?

None of that has happened but seems likely that’s where this might be headed, right?

I believe that’s how it happened with Cosby, yes but my memory may be hazy. 
 

Watson appears to be in a lot of trouble here. The odds of some lawyer risking his license and gathering up 15 women to lie about an innocent man for money and just to drive him out of the NFL (something almost none of them would care about) is so unlikely you may as well talk about spaceships landing in DC. 

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5 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

You seem like a decent enough guy, so this is not personal.

no offense taken whatsoever.

I appreciate your detailed responses, regardless of the level to which we agree or disagree. 

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Quote

And frankly, if I couldn't do it, no one could do it. 

 

Quote

Someone send a Game Of Thrones style raven to tell Sigmund Bloom that Old Man Gekko is back in the Shark Pool. He can take off that horrid looking morning jacket and take a break since he won't have to explain basic media optics to the unwashed masses of heathens here alone anymore.

no offense intended because you seem to be a decent enough fellow, but both of these statements come off a bit rough around the edges. 

To the first, if you’re going to make such a claim, maybe you should accompany it with a LinkedIn profile so we can establish credibility. Because that’s a pretty incredible statement. 

To the second, I’m just not sure why it would be necessary to take a jab at the entire community as though no one here knows anything except you & Sigmund Bloom. For one, we still haven’t seen any evidence. It wouldn’t be unprecedented for this to all go away. We just don’t know the deal yet. Hopefully we will see something concrete soon.  For another, FBG has quite a few members who are also professional people who know stuff & things, so forgive me if I don’t let that crack go unchallenged.

signed,

-one of the unwashed masses of the shark tank 

;) 

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

 I still find it pretty messed up that this was never reported to the police....

It's common for massage therapists to have male clients try to expose themselves.  Massage therapists don't go to the police about those incidents, they generally just refuse to take that male client again.  So Watson is basically dealing with a MeToo movement to call out his creepy behavior.  I don't think he will get convicted of anything except being a creep.

Also, most of these happened in the last few months.  Even as recently as a few weeks ago.  So this isn't a case where the women are coming out of the woodwork from 20 years ago.  These are very recent.

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Quote

The odds of some lawyer risking his license and gathering up 15 women to lie about an innocent man for money and just to drive him out of the NFL (something almost none of them would care about) is so unlikely you may as well talk about spaceships landing in DC. 

Not Watson-specific, but to this statement, did you not see the attorneys who brought 62 cases to federal court in January, only to see every one of them laughed-out, withdrawn for lack of evidence or standing, or dismissed for lack of evidence or standing? "The Kraken" or Rudy Giuliani cases? Something like a dozen crackpot attorneys put their licenses & reputations on the line for frivolous, headline-seeking lawsuits & to this point at least none have suffered any consequences save for professional embarrassment (and it takes a sense of shame to feel embarrassment, so I'm gonna file that under "no consequences" because if they had a sense of shame they wouldn't have brought those lawsuits to court)

And that wasn't even about something as important as Football. It was only about determining who the President of the United States was, and potentially disenfranchising the votes of 80,000,000+ people. 

I'm just sayin - as a law and order guy myself, I would love for your point to be valid. But we have a couple hundred years of evidence to the contrary about attorneys and what they'd be willing to do for money or attention. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

Not Watson-specific, but to this statement, did you not see the attorneys who brought 62 cases to federal court in January, only to see every one of them laughed-out, withdrawn for lack of evidence or standing, or dismissed for lack of evidence or standing? "The Kraken" or Rudy Giuliani cases? Something like a dozen crackpot attorneys put their licenses & reputations on the line for frivolous, headline-seeking lawsuits & to this point at least none have suffered any consequences save for professional embarrassment (and it takes a sense of shame to feel embarassment, so I'm gonna file that under "no consequences" because if they had a sense of shame they wouldn't have brought those lawsuits to court)

And that wasn't even about something as important as Football. It was only about determining who the President of the United States was, and potentially disenfranchising the votes of 80,000,000+ people. 

I'm just sayin - as a law and order guy myself, I would love for your point to be valid. But we have a couple hundred years of evidence to the contrary about attorneys and what they'd be willing to do for money or attention. 

Well yea, there are plenty of scheister attorneys out there and your example is valid but what about the 10-15 women? Are there any examples of a dozen plus women coming together to accuse somebody of conduct such as this and have been found to be lying?

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8 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

It's common for massage therapists to have male clients try to expose themselves.  Massage therapists don't go to the police about those incidents, they generally just refuse to take that male client again. 

This is true. It is also true that many massage therapists have included "extras" as part of their out-call services. I know one such therapist who did this for about a decade. And occasionally she would also refuse if she was creeped out by the client. 

At the end of the day what matters most is consent. If there was no consent, that's assault & it is a crime that Watson should be held responsible for. If it was consensual, then it may be illegal or immoral (depending on geography & personal judgement) but it may not necessarily be actionable. 

If it was initially consensual & suddenly not (for whatever motivation) that's a much trickier situation. 

I'm not saying which it is, but anyone saying that last part is a wild conspiracy theory hasn't been around the block, because there have been many such instances where a consensual relationship is later accused of being nonconsensual / rape / etc. I vividly recall a recanted story about the Duke Lacrosse team, for one high profile example. Ruined those dudes lives, and the woman admitted it was a lie.  These things do happen. 

Again: I do not know what is happening with Watson, but let's not all be doe-eyed babes in the woods here. 

 

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1 minute ago, Synthesizer said:

It's common for massage therapists to have male clients try to expose themselves.  Massage therapists don't go to the police about those incidents, they generally just refuse to take that male client again.  So Watson is basically dealing with a MeToo movement to call out his creepy behavior.  I don't think he will get convicted of anything except being a creep.

Also, most of these happened in the last few months.  Even as recently as a few weeks ago.  So this isn't a case where the women are coming out of the woodwork from 20 years ago.  These are very recent.

Thanks.  That's gross, and I would not have expected to hear that is a common thing. Hopefully it's obvious that I'm just asking questions here.

It's crazy that MOST of these happened in a few months.  Choir boy Watson suddenly just starts doing this a few times a week?

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Capella said:

Well yea, there are plenty of scheister attorneys out there and your example is valid but what about the 10-15 women? Are there any examples of a dozen plus women coming together to accuse somebody of conduct such as this and have been found to be lying?

I don't recall anything to this level or degree, no. I do recall many instances of changing stories, for-profit rape accusations, and the like. 

And I also recall times when more than one person has piled on to a popular story to get paid. 

Again again, i am not saying that's what is happening. But i am not going to outright dismiss the possibility. Because whenever something high profile that involves millionaires is going on, there are many possibilities that we may not ordinarily consider in our blue collar lives. At least, speaking for myself. 

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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

It's crazy that MOST of these happened in a few months.  Choir boy Watson suddenly just starts doing this a few times a week?

I'll take "things that just don't add up" for $300, Alex! 

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5 minutes ago, Capella said:

Well yea, there are plenty of scheister attorneys out there and your example is valid but what about the 10-15 women? Are there any examples of a dozen plus women coming together to accuse somebody of conduct such as this and have been found to be lying?

I think the argument (not that I agree with it) is that the women are all "Jane Doe" so it is conceivable that they could be not real.  

That seems very, very unlikely of course, but it also seems very unlikely for Watson to be this stupid.

I really don't get why the general statement "this rich established guy would never risk his career by doing something this stupid" doesn't apply to both the lawyer and Watson in the court of public opinion.

Maybe it's more likely than I thought that Watson is this stupid.

 

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1 minute ago, kittenmittens said:

I really don't get why the general statement "this rich established guy would never risk his career by doing something this stupid" doesn't apply to both the lawyer and Watson in the court of public opinion.

I think that's an excellent question. Why does one get the benefit of the doubt while the other doesn't? 

And why, if these are all 100% legitimate massage therapy professionals, are they not coming forward? Are these certified sports medicine types? This is the me-too era. They'd be celebrated as heroes by the media while Watson would be demonized.

One might ask what is the attorney attempting to hide by listing them as Jane Doe's? Might they have onlyfans pages or police records? Might they have worked in the sex trade prior to becoming out-service masseuses? 

Not victim blaming or shaming - I am pro-sex worker. I lived in Amsterdam for 2 years & believe prostitution should be legalized. I don't know if they're legit sports massage therapy professionals Watson found through a professional resource, or "other".  

Not knowing a single thing about these women gives me pause. 

I can't say it enough - I am not accusing anyone of anything here or passing judgement on anyone for any behavior that isn't "sexual assault" which no one here disagrees is a bad bad thing.

I'm just speculating on the myriad of possibilities in the absence of actual evidence.  Hopefully time will reveal more about all of this. 

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Quote

Sarah Barshop @sarahbarshop

A 13th civil lawsuit has been filed against Deshaun Watson. Houston lawyer Tony Buzbee had previously said he would be filing 12 lawsuits and had been contacted by at least 10 more women with reports about similar conduct from Watson. 

This is the sixth lawsuit filed today.

https://twitter.com/sarahbarshop/status/1374069433044512770?s=21

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the amount of women so far....let's just say 12 for now.....is troubling....hard for me to imagine a lawyer could round up 12 women in the same occupation, that all had "contact" with Watson......and get them to all tell the same lie for financial gain.....at that point they become a team so to speak.....and said lawyer is going to trust that not one of the team of 12 would eventually turn and "out" the whole "plan".....pretty risky plan to trust all 12 to stay the course.....all it would take would be for one to turn on the group and and all hell breaks loose......which if one of the 12 really wanted to make some cash would be an easy play.....

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1 minute ago, Stinkin Ref said:

the amount of women so far....let's just say 12 for now.....is troubling....hard for me to imagine a lawyer could round up 12 women in the same occupation, that all had "contact" with Watson......and get them to all tell the same lie for financial gain.....at that point they become a team so to speak.....and said lawyer is going to trust that not one of the team of 12 would eventually turn and "out" the whole "plan".....pretty risky plan to trust all 12 to stay the course.....all it would take would be for one to turn on the group and and all hell breaks loose......which if one of the 12 really wanted to make some cash would be an easy play.....

I do agree with this. 

The whole thing is insane though. It is equally hard for me to believe that Watson just went completely off the rails on a sexual assault-fest like this. 

In my 50 years I've never heard of such a dramatic character change other than a bipolar episode or CTE-driven brain damage-induced episode - which aren't out of the realm of possibilities either, though I hesitate to speculate on medical issues of anyone. 

It's all just so weird. 

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2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

For anyone who knows...

Cosby started out as civil lawsuits, right?

First criminal case that results in charges being filed probably results in an indefinite suspension?

First criminal conviction means lifetime ban?

None of that has happened but seems likely that’s where this might be headed, right?

With all due respect to a poster who i know I share very little of the same thoughts and opinions with OUTSIDE of football but a person who i deeply respect and always read their posts slowly in the Shark Pool(We tend to agree in here) so I am treading lightly here my friend. 

I'm just reading back to you the way I read it. Cosby started similar so Watson must be the same kind of guy...maybe I misread that. 

-Lifetime ban seemed sudden when you thrust it into a post, just saying. 

I read it as he is already guilty in your eyes and that's fine, people are entitled to think whatever they like, the lawyers are counting on it that represent these 20+ women suddenly. 

I'm a little surprised so many folks can't see the difference between something like this and a person who drugs innocent fans and actresses and whoever(Cosby specifically) and what we are hearing about Watson. 

_Not that it needs to be this extreme but you brought up Cosby, not me, and drugging and then forcibly raping an unconscious human vs anything I am reading so far which by the way have seen no evidence yet. 

Bobby, you are a highly intelligent man or i wouldn't go deep or this far, would just keep moving along but I read what you posted and I just wanted to give you a reflection of what I am seeing. 

Love you, love your SP posts and I don't want to be the guy who really tries to challenge you and your convictions/beliefs but this one I am having a hard time understanding all the angles on this story and am a little jealous so many of you seem to have found enough to pass judgement already is what i am getting at. 

Cheers Friend

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3 hours ago, dhockster said:

Two things:

1) Cal McNair is the least likely guy to orchestrate a conspiracy because he is dumb as dirt.

Accurate or not, I feel it needs to be pointed out that this is the funniest post in the topic so far. :lol: 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

_Not that it needs to be this extreme but you brought up Cosby, not me, and drugging and then forcibly raping an unconscious human vs anything I am reading so far which by the way have seen no evidence yet. 

Yeah, I'd say that's night & day. Fair point. 

Drugging & raping women is a far far cry from a dude getting aroused during a consensual massage & asking for a happy ending (even if he took it further as IIRC some reports have Watson allegedly taking it further & rubbing his junk on them). 

There are degrees to everything. If the allegations are true, then this is still not remotely analogous with what Cosby did.

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

I believe that’s how it happened with Cosby, yes but my memory may be hazy. 
 

Watson appears to be in a lot of trouble here. The odds of some lawyer risking his license and gathering up 15 women to lie about an innocent man for money and just to drive him out of the NFL (something almost none of them would care about) is so unlikely you may as well talk about spaceships landing in DC. 

😂. 🤣. 😂

UFOs-They're Here!

You kill me sometimes, 😆

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21 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Accurate or not, I feel it needs to be pointed out that this is the funniest post in the topic so far. :lol: 

 

Definitely spot on accurate.  Easterby is the wild card in this conspiracy.  

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52 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

In my 50 years I've never heard of such a dramatic character change other than a bipolar episode or CTE-driven brain damage-induced episode - which aren't out of the realm of possibilities either, though I hesitate to speculate on medical issues of anyone.

What could possibly make you think this is new behavior?  I would guess that it has been going on for several/many years and he has been getting progressively more aggressive over time.

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I had written out quite a monologue about when the actual time frame is when all of this started and if maybe we need to start going back and interviewing and questioning some of his former employers like Dabo Sweeney at Clemson, he had to learn this behavior if its proven true, he had to learn it somewhere, right? 

I want to be crystal clear that I take all allegations seriously, and I always want to believe and give the benefit of the doubt to the victims. I also am a free thinking adult and the timing is awful spooky and magic here when such an arc changing decision for both the Texans and DeShaun Watson hangs in the balance. 

I think it's awfully suspicious that both the man paying and the woman receiving money for professional services DID NOT think getting on a plane to come see him was at least a little unusual from the get go. How good could a massage therapist from State "A" be that is so much better than a trained professional in Texas where he resides?(Just a question, not an indictment) It's hard to imagine that there are not amazing massage therapists throughout Houston, TX...board a plane to administer a massage? It's not like a priest/pastor with his Bible was boarding the plane to provide a special homily/sermon for the athletes before a big game. :unsure:

i'm having an awful tough time with this. I love Watson the NFL QB, I thought I also liked Watson the Man but I am even wavering reading my own posts just a bit. But I still think folks deserve a chance to defend themselves in a Court of Law and not just be judged in the court of public opinion. I'm sorry Shark Pool but this one is tearing me up and I bet many of you. How could you not like Watson and what he has accomplished and done in Houston his short time in the league, a mode player at Clemson from all reports and yet he was an underdog of sorts coming into the NFL and to now read all this? 😪 

Then you read this and you know teams really don't give a you know what in the overall scope of things. They say one thing but the reality is quite another. 

Please don't allow this story to rip into all the good we have put forth during the pandemic in here. It's not worth getting upset over is all I am saying. 

I cannot even imagine what it must be like trying to root for the Houston Texans right now or trying to be one of these many women and having your individual voice heard. 

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11 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

What could possibly make you think this is new behavior?  I would guess that it has been going on for several/many years and he has been getting progressively more aggressive over time.

I guess someone could turn around and ask you the same question about the bolded.

What could possibly make you think that it has been going on for several/many years and he has been getting progressively more aggressive over time?

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4 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I guess someone could turn around and ask you the same question about the bolded.

What could possibly make you think that it has been going on for several/many years and he has been getting progressively more aggressive over time?

Occam's Razor

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12 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

What could possibly make you think this is new behavior?  I would guess that it has been going on for several/many years and he has been getting progressively more aggressive over time.

Just that it was totally unreported & Watson’s always had an excellent off-field reputation & allegedly these assaults all took place in the last couple months. 

Your guess contradicts what folks described of the reporting.

🤔 

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2 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Occam's Razor

Without knowing anything but what the attorney said and what Watson’s attorney said, we simply don’t have enough to use Occam’s Razor.

if we’re going to let that drive our analysis then Occam’s Razor indicates that these women are prostitutes, or in the least provide extra massage service, because why else would Watson fly them in when I’m certain there are many fine massage therapists in Houston? 

Not saying that these women are or aren’t, but if you’re telling me that I have to make the simplest assumption because it’s the correct one, well....

I don’t think we know enough to make fair assumptions is my point here. 

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson - present at the start of Texans training camp.

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