I'm concerned this is what they're going to do. Howard is still on his rookie contract, so he's really cheap for TB. Looking at the article @Faust posted that they'd have to be "blown away" by an offer, and reading some reports that they'd want a 2nd rounder for him (all speculation of course) makes me wonder if Howard will continue to be stuck because TB values him as a hypothetical trade commodity more than they seem to as a player. That may annoy me (and other fantasy owners) but the thing is, TB can afford to just keep him for this year. Folks like LaCanfora are saying "trade imminent" but Schefter has been saying since yesterday (and this morning) that there are "zero" plans to trade Howard right now and that no trades are lined up.
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TE O.J. Howard, Raiders (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Deamon
Footballguy
nittanylion
Footballguy
Could be a cap move more than an indictment on OJ (lol). New England has very little money to spend.Don't know if this is true, but just read the Patriots had their choice of OJ Howard or a 4th for Gronk and chose the 4th.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Washington isn't Houston. (I'm still one of the bigger fans of OJ but you don't trade Chase Young for him)
Maybe, but Howard isn't expensive right now.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
In my dynasty PPR league, I just acquired Gronk in trade (gave up Slayton in return) and I do have OJ Howard. Perhaps it's my being as optimistic but I'm really hoping that Howard would go to Colts, which they certainly could use him to upgrade their TE / passing offense.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's NOT true.Don't know if this is true, but just read the Patriots had their choice of OJ Howard or a 4th for Gronk and chose the 4th.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Right, but I was replying to the statement that he was top 3-4 by everyone. It was pretty clearly kelce/kittle/ertz/engram and then about 5 guys you could list after that as reasonable guesses, heck some people probably had trey burton ranked up in that area. It’s not hindsight to say top 3-4 would have been a bold ranking for Howard. While he was certainly in the conversation in the next tier I wouldn’t call it “consensus” by any means. He was trending the right way but lots of reasons to pump the brakes as well. I just looked back (page 9-11) and there’s some worry.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Ah, gotcha.
He was clearly behind Kelce/Kittle/Ertz.
I wouldn't say he was clearly behind Engram. His startup ADP was actually slightly ahead of Engram. I remember having that choice in several startups last year and choosing Howard over Engram at the end of the 4th in two of them (took Engram in the 3rd to diversify).
Snorkelson
Footballguy
In terms of dynasty startup yes he was likely at 4-5, I was looking at it more in terms of going into last year and drafting for redraft or last season rankings.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Ah yeah my mistake. Sometimes I get stuck in the dynasty mindset and forget that's not always what we're talking about this time of year.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I would, sure. But it doesn’t seem to be the market price for Howard. I hope I’m wrong; he needs out of TB yesterday. I’m just assuming he’s stuck there until next year unless NE clears a bit of cap space or TB accepts a lesser return.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Losing Brady is one of the reasons they have no cap room. They lost $13.5 in cap space when Brady walked. With Antonio Brown and some other cuts, they are eating $24 million in dead money.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ok, I clearly need a better understanding of either the cap or what happened with Brady. I thought he was a UFA, which would mean no cap issue with him leaving. Of course, if he had stayed wouldn't the cap hit be even higher?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To limit the cap hit on the last contract Brady signed, NE added a dummy year to his contract (the 2020 season) even though the contract itself guaranteed the contract would end after the 2019 season. So NE had until the first day of the 2020 season (March 17th I believe) to negotiate an extension with Brady, if not he became an UFA. Since they didn't get a new deal done, they immediately had to take a $13.5 million cap hit charge for the previously unaccounted for cap balance. Had they negotiated a new deal, NE would have been able to continue to roll over some of that cap hit and reallocate it as part of the new deal.
As for your question, yes he would have had a higher cap number if he resigned with the team, but they could have gotten more creative cap accounting wise. If they had come to a one year extension, then they could have split that leftover cap hit over two seasons. I believe if they agreed on a multi-year deal, then they could have played around with it even more. Teams do stuff like that all the time, essentially kicking the cap hit down the road. But at some point teams still have to account for it, and this was the year NE had to eat the cap hit.
On the flip side for NE, they get out of their dead cap situation and get off of some high priced contracts after this season and are set to have $106 million in cap space heading into 2021 (less whatever they use the rest of way this year). Between this year and next year, they are also projected to have 25 draft picks. They also have most of their draft class from last year that they essentially redshirted and have a ton of players that went on IR last year coming back. Between those two groups, IIRC, that's like 12-15 players. The point being, NE has a chance to completely reshape their team, get much younger, and go free agent shopping next year. So they will likely be in a down year this year, but they should be restocked and ready to roll again in 2021.
beef
Footballguy
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Thanks, that's helpful.
It seems like the bold shouldn't be allowed, but presumably other teams do similar accounting moves and it benefits everyone.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are so many loopholes in the CBA or other NFL rules that need to be closed, but they are there and smarter teams will exploit them. For example, NE has been setting up one year contracts with free agents for 10-12 years, but they usually added in a second year team option. Because of that, they got to space out the cap hit over two seasons. More importantly, even though they opted not to pick up the player's option, they STILL earned a compensatory pick. So they basically got the option of keeping or cutting a player, but they also got the benefit of some salary cap relief and a compensatory pick on top of it.
There are so many provisions and exceptions in the salary cap rules that you need an MBA in Finance to fully comprehend them. Moving cap dollars into dummy years. Converting salaries to bonuses to free up cap space. Embedding incentives that may or may not be met to monkey with cap dollars. Carrying over cap dollars from one year to the next. Designating cuts before or after June 1st. Setting up out clauses in contracts. Installing "guaranteed money" that isn't actually guaranteed. And starting a few years ago, creatively trading bad contracts to avoid dead cap money (ie, trading a player with a terrible contract to avoid taking a massive cap hit AND a second round pick to a team with cap space to burn for a 7th round pick). This is the stuff that doesn't regularly make the news, but it's what goes on in dark alleys and late nights in team facilities all year long.
I just wish the media talking heads / writers / sports reporters were better informed on this stuff. That way, they would not suggest big name trades and free agent signings that have no chance of happening. Using NE as an example, the Patriots only have $1-2 million in cap space currently. Yet in a recent article I saw, the writer suggested that the Patriots should sign Cam Newton while also trading for OBJ. That's like trying to put 50 gallons of water into a one gallon jug. Then the writer adder in that NE is doing nothing and how come they aren't making any splashy moves to improve the team? But they get paid to get clicks, not to be fully knowledgeable. So why dabble in reality when a fantasy universe is much more interesting.
rockaction
Footballguy
To be fair, I've read a lot of primer stuff about football contracts. There was a great article I came across recently. I totally understood it while I was reading it. Trying to explain it after, though, sent my head spinning.
It's like copyright law. It sounds fun until you realize it's all contracts, licensing, and numbers. At least these numbers are generally round, but they're still a regular PITA to understand.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I never studied anything involving the law or contracts, but I generally understand how NFL contracts and team salary cap reporting works (for the most part). But NBA contracts and salary cap implications? Not a chance. I could probably try to decipher it better, but from a distance it seems like there are way more wrinkles than even the NFL has.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Madden franchise mode contracts are fairly realistic structure honestly. That’s where I got a majority of my understanding.
(own multiple shares of Howard, zero of Gronk) 
How talented can he truly be? In three seasons, hes' never had more than 34 receptions, and has never had 600 yards receiving. At this point, I have to believe that he is what we've seen, pajama olympics performances notwithstanding.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He is obviously a great talent, but I will believe when I see it. I know Brady loves throwing to the tight end, but he had plenty of success in the first half of his career without having a top TE then, and Arians' offense is infamous for ignoring the tight end. I could see Howard and Gronk both getting a bunch of TD's in the red zone, but it's hard to imagine any TE on this team getting a lot of catches and yards.
The Frankman
Footballguy
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Tough break, was having a solid season.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, he was solid this year. That's really too bad.
dcgangstas
Footballguy
He really was. Howard was beginning to mesh well with Brady.
Rough year to be a Buc receiver.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
O.J. was getting ~5 targets a game. My guess would be Brate sees a couple and Gronk sees a couple. I wouldn't expect much more as Brate isn't nearly the blocker O.J. was. They have another TE, Anthony Auclair, who probably takes more of Brate's snaps when he returns because he's a better blocker.
If Arians/Leftwich were smart they'd run Brate out of the slot with Godwin out, but they aren't. They run "their" offense, and don't adjust to personnel. Old school.
