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TE O.J. Howard, Raiders (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Bruce Arians: OJ Howard’s Eyes Should Light Up
I want to believe (I still have trust issues, but want to believe)
I want to believe (I still have trust issues, but want to believe)
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Howard isn't that good anyway, so might as well trade him and let Brady throw to targets who are actually worth a damn. He couldn't even break 500 yards last year despite starting almost all season on a team with a QB who threw for over 5,000 yards. He is not a good NFL player, and Tom Brady does not like throwing to such players.
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Dave Stauff
Footballguy
Does this news resurrect the Gronkowski rumors?
Boone22
Footballguy
I don’t think so. I just think it means Tampa offense doesn’t value the TE position as other offenses. They prefer their TEs to be extra O-Line rather than pass catchers.
acme
Footballguy
then why draft the dude?
or why then bring in Brady? (one of the most prolific TE targeters ever.)
Boone22
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
A story potentially nobody but me cares about: Everett and O.J. Howard are both on my inherited dynasty team. I hope to see them both dealt from their purgatories into a good situation.
That said, it's just as well Arians and company moved on from O.J. The guy was in their doghouse last year badly, and he'll only seemingly wind up there again.
wlwiles
Footballguy
I'm sorry..........Huh?
Howard is an athletic freak. He's only been in the league for three seasons. The first two years he flashed, but injuries (hammy) derailed his seasons. Every fantasy analyst was touting him as a top 3-4 TE going into last season based on those first two years, DESPITE the fact that TB brought in Arians who rarely ever uses a receiving TE in his offense. He had only 53 targets (and only 34 rec's), and he lost another 55 targets to Brate, most of which were in the RZ. And he was still 6th in the league in yds/rec last year, his problem is volume, not his skills. He couldn't break 500 yards w/ a QB that threw for 5000, but that QB is Jameis, not Brees. 10% of what Jameis throws ends up in the defenses hands right off the bat.
I absolutely wish that TB would trade him away because he is a wasted talent in Arians offense. But if he stays, if there's anyone in Tampa that can help utilize him it's Brady. Howard is the same size as Gronk minus about 10 pounds. He absolutely has the chops to be a top 4 TE in the league behind Kelce, Kittle, maybe Ertz, but his usage is a third of theirs. He's being used less often than Tyler Eifert...
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
All this tells me is what I know about Howard already: he has been all hype as an NFL player. He is athletic freak, sure, but so are hundreds of other NFL busts over the years. Also, I looked it up and Howard was 43rd last year in yards per catch, not 6th, and on a whopping 34 catches. While it is true that Arians loves to not use tight ends in general, there were many stories about how Howard wasn't a hard worker in 2019, so his lack of production is not all on his coach. Maybe he will get to play with Brady and finally live up to the hype, but for now I stand by my stance.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
“Fantasy analysts” are wrong a lot. You might find a few guys that had him there but Howard was in no way any sort of consensus top 5 te and it would be very bullish (or foolish) to have predicted that.
Also, Brate is still there, and he will be a factor as well, as he has been for years. Lots of fantasy analysts predicted that someone in NE would be a decent te, or a te in New Orleans after Graham left; it’s not a sure thing. Gronk was a special talent and the teams he played on lacked wr playmakers. Howard’s situation is completely different.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think there's just as good of a chance (maybe even better) that Brady prefers to target Brate than him making Howard a star.
massraider
Footballguy
FREE OJ!!!
I'm a little surprised at the ongoing intensity of debate surrounding Howard. He has one year (2018) with very promising efficiency numbers, the kind of production that (combined with his athletic profile/draft status) sometimes precedes a breakout. After 2018 the main concern was injuries, and in retrospect he was overhyped for 2019. Then we have 2019 where he legitimately played like crap and was in a non-ideal situation with Arians's offense. So, a young, promising TE who hasn't been able to put it together yet after 3 years in the NFL. Unprecedented!
I know some folks are responding to the hype from last year. Fair enough. But his situation feels pretty generic to me. I still believe in his talent, and hope that he gets the best possible chance to develop. But any determinations on him being a bust or on the verge of stardom are terribly premature given the typical curve for TE development.
I know some folks are responding to the hype from last year. Fair enough. But his situation feels pretty generic to me. I still believe in his talent, and hope that he gets the best possible chance to develop. But any determinations on him being a bust or on the verge of stardom are terribly premature given the typical curve for TE development.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
His efficiency metrics in 2018 were all-world, so it's not JUST hype.
They were way down last year in an offense known for being a poor fit for TEs, though Howard for his part did not play well either.
I'm not sure whether the 2018 or 2019 Howard is the real one, but to say he's just clearly a bad player doesn't jive with his 2018 per target production.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
OJ Howard career efficiency stats are pretty good so far. 67% catch rate and 10.4 yards per target over 38 games played.
The problem isn't efficiency though, its volume.
In 2018 Howard played on 39% of the offensive snaps 435 snaps total.48 targets. Brate played 48% of the snaps. 49 targets
In 2019 Howard played on 69% of the offensive snaps 762 snaps total.51 targets Brate played 38% of the snaps.55 targets.
So they definitely had Howard play more than the previous year, close to twice as much when you consider he missed 2 games, yet his targets did not increase along with the extra snaps. Although Brate played a lot fewer snaps his targets actually increased.
Now that Brady is the QB and not Winston, perhaps this connection with Brate goes away.
Despite Arians history of not using the TE as much as other offensive minded coaches, there are 100 or so targets here going to the TE. Its just that Howard isn't getting more than 50% of those.
If that changes maybe Howard does a lot better this year.
The problem isn't efficiency though, its volume.
In 2018 Howard played on 39% of the offensive snaps 435 snaps total.48 targets. Brate played 48% of the snaps. 49 targets
In 2019 Howard played on 69% of the offensive snaps 762 snaps total.51 targets Brate played 38% of the snaps.55 targets.
So they definitely had Howard play more than the previous year, close to twice as much when you consider he missed 2 games, yet his targets did not increase along with the extra snaps. Although Brate played a lot fewer snaps his targets actually increased.
Now that Brady is the QB and not Winston, perhaps this connection with Brate goes away.
Despite Arians history of not using the TE as much as other offensive minded coaches, there are 100 or so targets here going to the TE. Its just that Howard isn't getting more than 50% of those.
If that changes maybe Howard does a lot better this year.
[Rapoport] The #Patriots and #Bucs have had some communication, from what I’m told. It’s not unprecedented — the #Seahawks and #Raiders did a similar trade with Marshawn Lynch
https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1252685288507408388?s=21
Referring to Gronk
https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1252685288507408388?s=21
Referring to Gronk
wlwiles
Footballguy
Just to clarify this point - you must be including WRs to get 43rd? I’m looking at TE only, in which OJ was 16th in ypc. But I filtered out everyone above him that had <10 catches (guys like Ryan Izzo and Lance Kendricks who had 3 or 6 catches all year) so among TEs with >10 catches, OJ was 6th.Ghost Rider said:
Im not trying to flame, I guess it’s just agree to disagree. I don’t see OJ as a bad NFL player, I see a guy who hasn’t had the opportunity yet to show what he can do. I’d love to see him get 80-100 targets next season, and if he flops, then I’ll agree with you. But 34 catches last season on 53 targets to me says TB isn’t using him enough. Maybe bc they know he sucks, but i don’t believe that yet
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Would I take a chance on a guy that hasn't proven he can play or a guy that has proven he can't?
The choice is not hard.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm pretty worried about Howard, but I'd rather take a shot on a guy that has put up elite per target metrics and we'll probably find out about one way or the other this year than reset the clock and wait another 3 years on a new rookie TE from a weak TE class.
-OZ-
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
acme
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Well, it's a little of both for me I guess. I'll take a chance on Trautman and Kmet for sure, (and maybe Moss, Bryant and Okwuegbugnam), before Howard.
But I'd certainly take Howard before guys like Pinkney and Hopkins.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Brate was a pretty darn good te in his own right; they drafted Howard simply as bpa. I was about to send a couple cheap offers for Brate but glad i waited a day. Obviously I was one who thought there was no chance of gronk returning and figured Brate would be a solid investment if Howard were indeed traded. This changes things a bit obviously but I may still try grabbing him if he falls to waivers. Even as backup to an oft-injured gronk he might hold some value at some point.
Nero
Footballguy
I'd take Kmet and Okwuegbanum over Howard. Howard is still overrated at this point in his career, but I'd still hold over the other guys in this draft. Howard's hands need to improve. I think if he improves, his potential is greater than most the guys in this draft even as a late bloomer. There have several late blooming athletic TE's, Vernon Davis, Darren Waller, Eric Ebron, Ben Watson to name a few.
-OZ-
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Boone22
Footballguy
2 Rotoworld blurbs....
O.J. Howard TE, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports that there's a "distinct possibility" O.J. Howard still lands in New England.
That scenario is still "very much alive" according to La Canfora after the Patriots dealt veteran Rob Gronkowski to the Bucs for a fourth-round selection. The Tampa Bay Times' Rick Stroud also suggests any trade inquiries surrounding the 25-year-old would have to start with a second-round pick — an asset New England currently lacks — in return. We still lean towards Howard moving to Washington in a blockbuster for LT Trent Williams. San Francisco could also be involved as a last-minute suitor.
Related:
Tom Brady
, New England Patriots
Source: Jason La Canfora on Twitter
Apr 22, 2020, 10:16 AM ET
Trent Williams T, Washington Redskins
ESPN's Jenna Laine reports the Buccaneers nearly traded O.J. Howard to the Redskins in exchange for Trent Williams in February, but talks fell through.
It's significant since both players are hot commodities ahead of Thursday's draft. ESPN's Josina Anderson adds that Williams' situation is "ongoing" and one unnamed team has already laid out a plan for the entire deal; any conversations centering around the No. 2 overall pick would likely result in Williams being dealt. Expect the 31-year-old left tackle to pen a lucrative extension the moment he's traded, wherever that may be. The Vikings, Browns, and Buccaneers are a few expected suitors.
Related:
O.J. Howard
, Tom Brady
, Chase Young
, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
, Cleveland Browns
, Minnesota Vikings
Source: Jenna Laine on Twitter
Apr 22, 2020, 10:03 AM ET
O.J. Howard TE, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports that there's a "distinct possibility" O.J. Howard still lands in New England.
That scenario is still "very much alive" according to La Canfora after the Patriots dealt veteran Rob Gronkowski to the Bucs for a fourth-round selection. The Tampa Bay Times' Rick Stroud also suggests any trade inquiries surrounding the 25-year-old would have to start with a second-round pick — an asset New England currently lacks — in return. We still lean towards Howard moving to Washington in a blockbuster for LT Trent Williams. San Francisco could also be involved as a last-minute suitor.
Related:
Tom Brady
, New England Patriots
Source: Jason La Canfora on Twitter
Apr 22, 2020, 10:16 AM ET
Trent Williams T, Washington Redskins
ESPN's Jenna Laine reports the Buccaneers nearly traded O.J. Howard to the Redskins in exchange for Trent Williams in February, but talks fell through.
It's significant since both players are hot commodities ahead of Thursday's draft. ESPN's Josina Anderson adds that Williams' situation is "ongoing" and one unnamed team has already laid out a plan for the entire deal; any conversations centering around the No. 2 overall pick would likely result in Williams being dealt. Expect the 31-year-old left tackle to pen a lucrative extension the moment he's traded, wherever that may be. The Vikings, Browns, and Buccaneers are a few expected suitors.
Related:
O.J. Howard
, Tom Brady
, Chase Young
, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
, Cleveland Browns
, Minnesota Vikings
Source: Jenna Laine on Twitter
Apr 22, 2020, 10:03 AM ET
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think it would take a pretty big package to move him to a team they will be competing with in the NFC (sorry I did not bold your Redskins also).
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I tried to sell him last offseason for something close to that upper value and got laughed at. So yes.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
OJ and the 14 for Trent and the 2. Done deal.
I'm just glad some of the updated reports today put some of the bad reporting/takes to bed I heard yesterday which was "what does that say about Howard that Bellichick preferred a 4th round pick over him". I don't even know what was said around on these boards so not talking about anyone here, I'm talking about people in the media who just assumed he was offered instead of a 4th.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I don't think the Bucs dislike OJ. Signing Gronk and trading O.J. don't have to be subsequent transactions. In fact, with Gronk's injury history and one year contract, it makes a ton of sense for them to keep Howard.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
He was definitely considered around the #5/#6 TE by the consensus entering last year.
It's easy to forget now that his trend was pretty much right on par for elite TEs at the time (elite per target metrics, increasing target volume) and that it was a particularly weak time for TEs beyond the top few (Henry/Ebron/Njoku were the next guys up so it's not like people were passing on George Kittle).
Then came Arians and a catastrophic year. But to rail against that ranking now is hindsight. He was valued similarly to where guys like Kelce and Ertz were the year before their big breakout despite weaker competition at the time.
