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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts


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17 minutes ago, lod001 said:

By not putting himself in that position. Throw it into the ground before you get there. You never saw Brady or Manning even come close to getting put in that position. The play was sniffed out. Brady or Manning throws that ball at the defenders feet in the area of the receiver. Seen it just about every week from those guys.

He was beyond the line of scrimmage. How is he supposed to throw it to the ground? Plus no receivers were in the area. Intentional grounding anyone? People are unrealistic in their criticism here. It was a broken play he moved forward to get some yards, got his ankles wrapped and then a dirty hit to the head. Yep totally avoidable. :rolleyes:

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I think he instantly becomes a top 32 QB.

I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn'

7 minutes ago, Insein said:

He was beyond the line of scrimmage. How is he supposed to throw it to the ground? Plus no receivers were in the area. Intentional grounding anyone? People are unrealistic in their criticism here. It was a broken play he moved forward to get some yards, got his ankles wrapped and then a dirty hit to the head. Yep totally avoidable. :rolleyes:

Because he was behind the LOS I looked up the play. In fact he was well behind the LOS when he could have thrown it away. Sack minus 1 yard. Plus he was outside the tackle box. Go to youtube and you can see the whole play.

1st & 10 at PHI 25

(6:59 - 1st) (Shotgun) C.Wentz sacked at PHI 24 for -1 yards (B.McDougald). 

now I will  :rolleyes:

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20 minutes ago, Insein said:

He was beyond the line of scrimmage. How is he supposed to throw it to the ground? Plus no receivers were in the area. Intentional grounding anyone? People are unrealistic in their criticism here. It was a broken play he moved forward to get some yards, got his ankles wrapped and then a dirty hit to the head. Yep totally avoidable. :rolleyes:

Manning's and Brady's success derives from reading defenses and getting rid of the ball quickly. Wents' style is more in line with Ben or Wilson or Rodgers - extending the play and what have you. He'd be taking away a big part of his game if he just got rid of the ball every time things got a little hairy.

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42 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Because he was behind the LOS I looked up the play. In fact he was well behind the LOS when he could have thrown it away. Sack minus 1 yard. Plus he was outside the tackle box. Go to youtube and you can see the whole play.

1st & 10 at PHI 25

(6:59 - 1st) (Shotgun) C.Wentz sacked at PHI 24 for -1 yards (B.McDougald). 

now I will  :rolleyes:

Just watched it again. He was still in the tackle area. It was a broken screen play that he tried to get some yards for. It's a totally innocuous play except for Clowney drilling him at the end. 

I watched the broadcast replay too on my DVR. Michael's and Collinsworth didn't even notice it because the Eagles just blocked the FG and they were focused on going over that. That's why no one noticed at first. I remember getting dinner ready after that coming back on second down for the drive. I never even saw the play live. When I watched it again last night it Clowney definitely dove to get another shot on the QB.

Edited by Insein
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1 hour ago, lod001 said:

His injuries have come because he's put himself in situations where he can get hit. Must learn to slide & give up. Not go head first to gain 1 more yard. 

A football player putting himself in a situation where he can get hit?

Same can be said about Brady and Manning as you mentioned right? Weren’t all the games they missed due to them being in situations where they could get hit? They should have just got rid of the ball sooner I suppose....lol

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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4 minutes ago, grateful zed said:

every one gets in trouble.

carson just seams to be in trouble more often. 

thats the point here gents.

He’s missed 8 regular season games in 4 years as a starter and just came off of playing all 16 games. If that’s the point...well I’m sure you see how silly the trouble comment is...

The ACL and concussion were definitely flukey but doesn’t fit the narrative I guess 

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44 minutes ago, Insein said:

Just watched it again. He was still in the tackle area. It was a broken screen play that he tried to get some yards for. It's a totally innocuous play except for Clowney drilling him at the end. 

I watched the broadcast replay too on my DVR. Michael's and Collinsworth didn't even notice it because the Eagles just blocked the FG and they were focused on going over that. That's why no one noticed at first. I remember getting dinner ready after that coming back on second down for the drive. I never even saw the play live. When I watched it again last night it Clowney definitely dove to get another shot on the QB.

His health is more important than another yard or two early in the game.  Slide feet first like the smart QB's do and he never takes that hit.  It sucks that he got hurt, as it took all of the excitement out of watching the game, but Wentz never should have put himself in position for that kind of hit to take place. 

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17 minutes ago, grateful zed said:

every one gets in trouble.

carson just seams to be in trouble more often. 

thats the point here gents.

He has played 16 games in 2 full seasons out of 4. Knee for one end and back in the other. Then cheapshot in the playoffs. How is any of that his fault? The knee he was diving for a TD. Better tell Lamar and Mahomes to hold back on that running or else they might get hurt. Mahomes did get hurt this year btw. Guess he's injury prone. Better watch out. 

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9 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

His health is more important than another yard or two early in the game.  Slide feet first like the smart QB's do and he never takes that hit.  It sucks that he got hurt, as it took all of the excitement out of watching the game, but Wentz never should have put himself in position for that kind of hit to take place. 

How can he slide? It was a ####### sack!!!

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5 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Wentz never should have put himself in position for that kind of hit to take place.

Had he slid feet first and still got hit in the head like Flacco did a few years back, you move the goal posts to say what? Should have thrown it away right? And if he threw it away and was roughed resulting in a concussion we go to what? Should have audibled to a run? Stop  

People were locked in to him being injury prone. He played 16/16 so now this is the moment to get back some that glory 🤷‍♂️

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

His health is more important than another yard or two early in the game.  Slide feet first like the smart QB's do and he never takes that hit.  It sucks that he got hurt, as it took all of the excitement out of watching the game, but Wentz never should have put himself in position for that kind of hit to take place. 

Exactly and if people watch BALT you can see that they have instructed Jackson to take his runs out to the edge and run OB before he takes a hit. Wentz should have just gone down like Manning and Brady did if he wasn't going to dump it. In fact Rivers does the same now that I think about it. Curling up in the fetal psotion to live another play.

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1 minute ago, lod001 said:

Exactly and if people watch BALT you can see that they have instructed Jackson to take his runs out to the edge and run OB before he takes a hit. Wentz should have just gone down like Manning and Brady did if he wasn't going to dump it. In fact Rivers does the same now that I think about it. Curling up in the fetal psotion to live another play.

Yea I've sure seen Lamar and Mahomes curl up and fall down a lot haven't they.

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1 minute ago, Insein said:

Yea I've sure seen Lamar and Mahomes curl up and fall down a lot haven't they.

Thats not the point. The point is to give up when there is nothing so as to play another down. Brady is still playing because he's smart enough to throw the ball into the back of the OL near the RB or fall down before the defender lays the hit. 

On this play only bad things can happen when the play is blown up from the get go.

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10 minutes ago, Insein said:

Like Lamar and Mahomes and Wilson do right?

It just hasn't happened to them but it will and btw. Wilson is great already at giving up when the gig is up[. he has the curl up down pat. 

This is what I'm talking about. https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-carson-wentz-zach-ertz--20191007.html 

From earlier this year: With 44 seconds to play in the first quarter, the Jets’ Darryl Roberts sped into the backfield on a delayed cornerback blitz from the left end. Wentz faked a handoff, so his back was to Roberts, and when he turned Roberts was there, and he was unavoidable. Wentz should have thrown the ball away immediately. When Roberts wrapped himself around Wentz’s legs, Wentz should have simply fallen and taken the 5-yard sack. Instead, Wentz twisted his body against the torque of the tackle and threw the ball away -- weakly, and foolishly; it might have been an interception. Thats what Brady and Manning did. 

Watching that replay of yesterday, I cringe at the position he put himself in. legal hit or not.

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2 hours ago, Insein said:

Just watched it again. He was still in the tackle area. It was a broken screen play that he tried to get some yards for. It's a totally innocuous play except for Clowney drilling him at the end. 

I watched the broadcast replay too on my DVR. Michael's and Collinsworth didn't even notice it because the Eagles just blocked the FG and they were focused on going over that. That's why no one noticed at first. I remember getting dinner ready after that coming back on second down for the drive. I never even saw the play live. When I watched it again last night it Clowney definitely dove to get another shot on the QB.

I noticed live.... remarked that it was a cheap shot.   Thought he just got him in the back though, didn't catch the helmet contact until the replay

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2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

His health is more important than another yard or two early in the game.  Slide feet first like the smart QB's do and he never takes that hit.  It sucks that he got hurt, as it took all of the excitement out of watching the game, but Wentz never should have put himself in position for that kind of hit to take place. 

QBs who slide in tight quarters get hit in the head all the time. Probably more often than one's that go head first. 

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2 hours ago, lod001 said:

Thats not the point. The point is to give up when there is nothing so as to play another down. Brady is still playing because he's smart enough to throw the ball into the back of the OL near the RB or fall down before the defender lays the hit. 

On this play only bad things can happen when the play is blown up from the get go.

Brady is a poor example. Brady runs qb sneaks in games that they're up by multiple scores late in the 4th quarter. 

And Brady gets hit all the time. He curls up and falls down maybe 3 times per season and he would probably do it zero if he thought he had the athleticism to turn a 4 yard loss into a 1 yard gain. 

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Had he slid feet first and still got hit in the head like Flacco did a few years back, you move the goal posts to say what? Should have thrown it away right? And if he threw it away and was roughed resulting in a concussion we go to what? Should have audibled to a run? Stop  

People were locked in to him being injury prone. He played 16/16 so now this is the moment to get back some that glory 🤷‍♂️

Get back some glory? I have no idea to whom you are referring, but I have nothing invested in this topic; I simply think Wentz needs to do a better job at protecting himself.   If you are a Philly fan who is going to push back on any comment that isn't totally complimentary of Wentz, then I am not sure what else I can say.  I am a Wentz fan and would love to see him stay healthy, because he is so fun to watch when he is on his game.  As a fan of the sport, I was bummed when he got hurt in 2017 as it cost him the MVP and a chance to finish off their magical season instead of having to watch Foles do it.  

50 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

QBs who slide in tight quarters get hit in the head all the time. Probably more often than one's that go head first. 

I have no idea what the numbers are on that, but I will just reiterate that Wentz needs to do a better job at protecting himself.  

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57 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

 

I have no idea what the numbers are on that, but I will just reiterate that Wentz needs to do a better job at protecting himself.  

So basically just quit football.

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Hard to fault him for getting hurt. It's a rough sport and injuries are unpredictable.  Mobile QBs are certainly more susceptible that pure pocket passers - some mobile guys like Wilson have probably just been fortunate not to have been hit in the wrong spot at the wrong time. 

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8 hours ago, zamboni said:

Hard to fault him for getting hurt. It's a rough sport and injuries are unpredictable.  Mobile QBs are certainly more susceptible that pure pocket passers - some mobile guys like Wilson have probably just been fortunate not to have been hit in the wrong spot at the wrong time. 

And Wilson doesn't have to worry about dirty shots from Clowney. 

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39 minutes ago, grateful zed said:

he helped me win a title.  qb9 in ppr.

:shrug:

He came on at the end, but early on he was disappointing......my scoring is unique as well...we get huge bonuses for long TD's.....once DJax went down and the rest of the dominoes kept falling, he just didn't live up to expectations.

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He was throwing to practice squad players and his last game he got speared in the back of the head with front also slamming the ground, not sure what you can do to make brain more durable for those scenarios. He’ll be fine if he GM gets it together. 

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I’ll be watching who the Eagles get at WR before making a decision on Wentz next year. If they get some real weapons, I’ll be buying and just make sure I have a viable backup in case he gets hurt yet again.

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I think he’s very talented, but he might be cursed. He’s shown he can string together an excellent 3/4 of a season, but this cloud hangs over him.

Part of it is certainly bad luck, but he should watch some Wilson tape in the offseason. He avoids danger better than any QB in the game.

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  • 2 months later...

 

Quote

Eagles exercised Carson Wentz's 2020 option.

This is a procedural move — Wentz's salary would have jumped to $30 million had the Eagles declined. Wentz is now owed $1.38 million and $15.4 million base salaries the next two seasons. The Eagles also picked up options on DE Brandon Graham, OG Isaac Seumalo, and DL Malik Jackson.

RELATED: 

Brandon Graham

, Isaac Seumalo

, Malik Jackson

Mar 28, 2020, 9:07 AM ET

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Eagles surprisingly take Sooners QB Jalen Hurts in 2nd round of NFL draft

Excerpts:

Quote

PHILADELPHIA -- In a surprise move that stirred up instant conversation in Philadelphia, the Eagles selected Oklahoma quarterback Jalen Hurts in the second round of the 2020 NFL draft with the 53rd overall pick Friday.

Given that the Eagles handed Carson Wentz a four-year, $128 million extension in June, there wasn't an expectation that they would use this high of a pick on another quarterback, but Philadelphia showed once again that it is serious about investing heavily in the position.

Eagles general manager Howie Roseman said the decision to draft Hurts was "independent of" Wentz, adding, "There's no threat to Carson here."

"We have shown how we feel about Carson by our actions, by the amount of picks we put into him, and we showed it by the contract extension," Roseman said. "We believe this is the guy to lead us to our next Super Bowl championship. But for better or worse, we are QB developers.

"When we make these kind of decisions, we always go to our principles and who we are and what we believe in, and right or wrong, this is who we are."

Roseman said he called Wentz earlier Friday to let him know that drafting Hurts was a possibility. He added that this move is "exciting for our quarterback. This is exciting for our football team. And these are the kind of decisions we are going to make, and we're proud of it."

 

Quote

Philadelphia values having a "second quarterback." The organization doesn't like using the term "backup," a philosophy that was validated when Nick Foles stepped in for an injured Wentz in 2017 and completed the Eagles' Super Bowl run. However, that run led to a complicated dynamic in the locker room, with a Super Bowl MVP sharing space with a young, alpha-male quarterback trying to establish command.

Roseman, though, didn't sound concerned about a potential quarterback controversy, particularly because of Hurts' team-first mentality.

"We think Carson is a phenomenal player, and nobody is going to be looking at a rookie quarterback as somebody who is going to be taking over for a Pro Bowl quarterback, a guy who has been on the cusp of winning an MVP," Roseman said.

 

Quote

Hurts indicated that he has not been told what his role will be initially, but coach Doug Pederson will certainly have the ability to get creative on offense. Hurts not only threw for 32 touchdowns last season but also ran for 20 touchdowns while racking up nearly 1,300 yards on the ground.

"He has a unique skill set," Pederson said. "You see what Taysom Hill has done in New Orleans and how he and Drew Brees have a connection there and a bond there. And you look at [Joe] Flacco and Lamar [Jackson] in Baltimore for the short period of time, how they jelled together. It's just something we're going to explore."

 

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I wouldn't like this if I owned Wentz, purely from the standpoint of the threat of Hurts being used in packages and potentially taking away from scoring opportunities. How much that happens remained to be seen but I'd be nervous about that.

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22 minutes ago, Tool said:

I wouldn't like this if I owned Wentz, purely from the standpoint of the threat of Hurts being used in packages and potentially taking away from scoring opportunities. How much that happens remained to be seen but I'd be nervous about that.

I could surely see some goal-line packages for Hurts. I don’t think it’s a huge deal but it could cost you a win one week where Hurts ends up throwing one in from two yards out while Wentz is on the bench.

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My best guess would be that the trick play/package opportunities are just a bonus and were a small part of them drafting Hurts.  I think the main reason is 4 years of affordable injury insurance for their QB that has a history of missing time.

As a Wentz owner in multiple leagues I'd rather they went the Denver route and had taken Mims in the 2nd to get Wentz multiple WR weapons instead of just the one.  That said, I guess a clear backup that should be relatively cheap even in SF leagues isn't the worst thing for Wentz SF owners to have.

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Don't do it, you'll regret it. 

Wentz now has the best combination of speed and receiving ability he's ever had. Reagor/DJax/Goodwin/Ertz/Goedart/Sanders. My personal belief is they saw Luck retire on short notice and wondered what they would do if Wentz suddenly did that. Especially given Wentz's injury history of major knee surgery, broken back, concussion.

Could the Eagles install a package of plays for Hurts? Sure, but I'll need to see it first before I believe they're going to make a 2-QB system their main offense. Certainly need more than an unnamed source telling Charles Robinson of Yahoo sports in April.

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20 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Yeah maybe. 

Still think Carson is better short term though.  I don't play dynasty so I don't really know how to value it (as to how many years down the line when you think he may pass him, which makes it more valuable to have him now). 

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