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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts


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I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn'

Are you new here?

I think he instantly becomes a top 32 QB.

Don’t slam the suitcase shut just yet. Hurts has started shakily against Washington and make many miscues against Dallas last week. He hasn’t put a stranglehold on this job just yet.

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18 hours ago, Ack88 said:

Don’t slam the suitcase shut just yet. Hurts has started shakily against Washington and make many miscues against Dallas last week. He hasn’t put a stranglehold on this job just yet.

Not to mention the GM doing the right thing and singing praises on Wentz going into the offseason.....going to be a very interesting offseason in Philly.  

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When it comes down to it, that money is way too much to drop a guy they had faith in just a year ago. I'd say the odds are both Wentz and Hurts are back next year unless someone offers a first for Hurts or a first plus a lot for Wentz. 

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1 minute ago, Kiddnets said:

Not to mention the GM doing the right thing and singing praises on Wentz going into the offseason.....going to be a very interesting offseason in Philly.  

No doubt it will be an interesting offseason, but regarding Wentz, Roseman had no choice but to sing Wentz's praises. Otherwise he would lose whatever limited trade leverage he already has with that contract.

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17 hours ago, Smack Tripper said:

that contract is untradeable

ive read some articles where it outlines how the contract works in a deal.....its definitely not cheap but not outrageous if a team believes he can rebound to his previous form....if Philly wants solid comp along with a team taking on the contract that may be a deal breaker.   

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Carson Wentz drama headlines epic Philadelphia Eagles offseason

Excerpt:

Quote

Will Wentz be traded?

It sure seems to be heading that way. According to ESPN's Chris Mortensen, Wentz's relationship with coach Doug Pederson is fractured beyond repair and the QB plans to ask for a trade.

The Eagles will try to calm the waters in the coming weeks -- general manager Howie Roseman and Pederson started that process Monday by pumping Wentz upand assuring all is well between team and QB -- if for no other reason than to try to build up trade leverage. Parting with Wentz after giving him a four-year, $128 million extension in the summer of 2019 will be a record-setting financial headache. Philly would incur a dead-cap hit of nearly $35 million by trading him as it stands. The largest dead-cap hit in league history was Brandin Cooks’ $21.8 million with the Los Angeles Rams.

That's a mighty hard pill to swallow. But Wentz's trust in the organization was breached after it assured him the Hurts pick in the second round last April was nothing to worry about, only for the situation to devolve into a full-fledged QB controversy (in part as a result of Wentz's poor play). Any plan the Eagles devise to get Wentz back to his old self and into the QB1 chair once more will be viewed skeptically. Parting ways now will give Wentz the fresh start he seeks while providing the Eagles financial relief in the long run.

He should attract some suitors -- a reunion with coach Frank Reich in Indianapolis is possible and the New England Patriots are surely doing their homework -- but a deal needs to fall into place quickly: The Eagles have to execute a trade prior to the third day of the 2021 league year (begins March 17) before his $22 million base salary for 2022 becomes fully guaranteed and his 2021 roster bonus of $10 million is paid out.

 

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The Associated Press reports Carson Wentz is "hopeful (his time with the Eagles) won’t end in a divorce." 

The AP reports Wentz nevertheless "needs time away to think about his future" after being benched for the final four games of 2020. Be that as it may, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the sides will begin talking this week. Wentz has an uncuttable contract. It could be traded, but it would be extraordinarily complex. From Wentz's deal to Jalen Hurts' intriguing but imperfect late-season cameo, there are a million moving parts here. It could be months before there is a resolution.  

SOURCE: Associated Press 

Jan 5, 2021, 2:28 PM ET

 

 

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7 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

ive read some articles where it outlines how the contract works in a deal.....its definitely not cheap but not outrageous if a team believes he can rebound to his previous form....if Philly wants solid comp along with a team taking on the contract that may be a deal breaker.   

I think its like a baseball deal when they have to send a prospect WITH the bad contract, they'd probably have to ship a second rounder with him.  And to get out from under this, it would be worth it

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9 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I think its like a baseball deal when they have to send a prospect WITH the bad contract, they'd probably have to ship a second rounder with him.  And to get out from under this, it would be worth it

I don't think that's how it works. The dead cap hit is their's regardless. It's only worth it to them if they get a decent amount of draft capital back. They can't just send a draft pick and the other team eats the contract. 

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3 minutes ago, Insein said:

I don't think that's how it works. The dead cap hit is their's regardless. It's only worth it to them if they get a decent amount of draft capital back. They can't just send a draft pick and the other team eats the contract. 

As a recent example of exactly this, the Houston Texans traded Brock Osweiler to the Cleveland Browns and gave up a 2nd round 2018 draft pick, just to get out from under the contract.

I think you are suggesting this contract is different.  Explain how.

Edited by socrates
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6 minutes ago, socrates said:

As a recent example of exactly this, the Houston Texans traded Brock Osweiler to the Cleveland Browns and gave up a 2nd round 2018 draft pick, just to get out from under the contract.

I think you are suggesting this contract is different.  Explain how.

I’m not sure of the specific differences but the Osweiler deal saved Houston $10 million of cap space. The Eagles would have a $34 million dead cap hit if they trade him.

I believe the difference has to do with prorated signing bonus.

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4 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

I’m not sure of the specific differences but the Osweiler deal saved Houston $10 million of cap space. The Eagles would have a $34 million dead cap hit if they trade him.

I believe the difference has to do with prorated signing bonus.

Thanks.

On a side note:  The Osweiler trade was:  Osweiler + 2nd round 2018 draft pick + 6th round 2017 pick for a 4th round 2017 draft pick.  The CBA strictly prohibits trading a player for "nominal consideration"; however, the Osweiler deal was evidently allowed because the Texans gave a 2018 draft pick, and received a 2017 draft pick in return, and future draft picks have a lower value than current draft picks.  Still any such deal to unload Wentz's contract may be carefully scrutinized.  

The prorated signing bonus may be calculated differently, as you say.

I wonder if Wentz would consider re-working his contract, if it can be modified to make his contract more palatable to another team.

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14 hours ago, socrates said:

This is an excellent article outlining a number of scenarios and how each would affect Philadelphia's cap:

 

I saw an article similar to this - good stuff....if correct the team trading for Wentz would be paying around $25M for 2 yrs while Philly would break even in 2021 and save some in 2022.....

$25M is not ridiculous for a starting QB....Rivers, Teddy and even Brissett is making that...Colts have the $ and the coach connection with Reich...I could see them making a move.

While Philly does eat a bunch of salary next 2 yrs they would be paying Hurts peanuts so it would be close to a wash just no Wentz

So its doable....question is would Philly feel comfortable handing the reigns to Hurts and what comp would they demand.....odds are a deal would need to be made before the mid March bonus so may find out earlier than the draft

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14 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I saw an article similar to this - good stuff....if correct the team trading for Wentz would be paying around $25M for 2 yrs while Philly would break even in 2021 and save some in 2022.....

$25M is not ridiculous for a starting QB....Rivers, Teddy and even Brissett is making that...Colts have the $ and the coach connection with Reich...I could see them making a move.

While Philly does eat a bunch of salary next 2 yrs they would be paying Hurts peanuts so it would be close to a wash just no Wentz

So its doable....question is would Philly feel comfortable handing the reigns to Hurts and what comp would they demand.....odds are a deal would need to be made before the mid March bonus so may find out earlier than the draft

Compensation would have to be great to justify leaving a hole in their cap that large. It'd be better to keep Wentz and get him back to form otherwise.

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  • 2 weeks later...


 

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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Eagles management has told coaching candidates that QB Carson Wentz "is fixable."

Maybe Wentz is fixable but this report doesn't move the needle much. The Eagles aren't going to attract the best coaches by admitting they have at least $31 million per year for the next four years committed to a broken player. Wentz's massive contract still has nearly $60 million in dead cap before next year so it's hard to see Wentz not being on the roster next year. It makes sense from a financial and talent perspective for Philly to try to fix Wentz. He averaged at least 7.5 yards per attempt in 2017 and 2018 before taking a small step back two years ago. Then things fell off the rails this year as he led the league in interceptions and sacks while playing in just 12 games. If there is a way to unlock the old Wentz, it's worth it for the Eagles to try because of his ceiling and how much money they owe him. His status as the team's starter next year could come down to a camp battle with Jalen Hurts, who played well in his limited action under center to close out the 2020 season.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Jan 17, 2021, 11:45 AM ET

 

 

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I can't speak to the fine print of Carson Wentz's contract, but I think Philadelphia and Washington should hammer out a deal as if they are both trying to rob one another. 

win/win, win/lose, lose/win, or lose/lose?  Step right up.

I lean towards win/win.

Edited by Mister CIA
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33 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

I can't speak to the fine print of Carson Wentz's contract, but I think Philadelphia and Washington should hammer out a deal as if they are both trying to rob one another. 

win/win, win/lose, lose/win, or lose/lose?  Step right up.

I lean towards win/win.

Not sure how a Win/Win is possible.  If Carson leads Washington to division titles and beyond, then that means the Eagles are not making any deep playoff runs and likely lose.

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9 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Not sure how a Win/Win is possible.  If Carson leads Washington to division titles and beyond, then that means the Eagles are not making any deep playoff runs and likely lose.

Well, what if Hurts is equal to Wentz and you get two years of that on a rookie contract. ... and, presumably, somehow you get ou of the meaty Wentz contract (again, I'm not savvy enough to speak to contracts).

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Just now, Mister CIA said:

Well, what if Hurts is equal to Wentz and you get two years of that on a rookie contract. ... and, presumably, somehow you get ou of the meaty Wentz contract (again, I'm not savvy enough to speak to contracts).

 Ya I just meant in terms of winning.  Both teams can't win the div, so whoever is missing the playoffs is probably not happy with the trade.

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10 minutes ago, Pip's Invitation said:

And would WAS even do it after their ill-advised deal for McNabb? 

Maybe. Purchasing Wentz's contract might be the most attractive option here. 

I'll defer to WTF fans.

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9 minutes ago, Deamon said:

 Ya I just meant in terms of winning.  Both teams can't win the div, so whoever is missing the playoffs is probably not happy with the trade.

I agree, that's why I lead with "I think Philadelphia and Washington should hammer out a deal as if they are both trying to rob one another."

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3 hours ago, Pip's Invitation said:

And would WAS even do it after their ill-advised deal for McNabb? 

 

3 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

Maybe. Purchasing Wentz's contract might be the most attractive option here. 

I'll defer to WTF fans.

As a Skins fan, I still have nightmares about that McNabb deal. I didn’t like it from the day it was made. Not because I didn’t have a high opinion of McNabb, but because it was clear Andy was too savvy to deal him to a division rival if he had anything left in the tank. Inter-division deals are probably doomed in general for the reasons discussed here. Neither GM wants to risk seeing the guy they traded two times a year if it blows up in their face.

As for Carson specifically, I wouldn’t take that risk if I’m the WTFs. Besides the big cap number, you are willingly taking on a reclamation project and hoping it works out. I have seen some Skins/WTFs fans float his name out there as a possibility, but we are all basically grasping at straws as a fan base right now since we clearly need a QB. Hopefully Smith does the smart thing and retires. Personally, I’ve been advocating a deal for Stafford if available, but I’m starting to doubt he’ll hit the trade market.

Edited by Johnny Utah #9
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  • 2 weeks later...
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ESPN's Tim McManus reports the Eagles have "already received aggressive offers" for Carson Wentz.

The Eagles have been fielding trade calls for Wentz, with the Colts showing the most interest. It's not a surprise given Wentz's ties to Frank Reich, but Philly's asking price — they reportedly want "significant compensation" for Wentz — is going to make any deal difficult coming off a season where Wentz played like one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. The Eagles likely want a first-round pick to justify taking the $30 million dead cap hit to trade Wentz. Even with Doug Pederson fired, Wentz has made it clear he wants out of Philly.

RELATED: 

Indianapolis Colts

SOURCE: ESPN

Feb 5, 2021, 11:40 AM ET

 

 

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Philadelphia Inquirer's Jeff McLane reports the Eagles are "getting closer to trading" Carson Wentz.

This confirms reports from NFL Network and ESPN. Teams are making "aggressive offers" to the Eagles currently, and Wentz "wants to move on" from the organization that opted to draft his eventual replacement (Jalen Hurts) instead of adding more help in last year's draft. Philly will be taking on $33.8 million in dead money by trading him, but the relationship may be too fractured to keep him inside the building. The asking price is what's delaying a trade right now. McLane believes GM Howie Roseman is "probably" searching for multiple first-round picks after seeing what Matthew Stafford was traded for. It's unclear how many teams would be willing to give up even one first-round pick after Wentz finished 31st out of 32 quarterbacks in passing EPA per dropback, but the Colts and Bears are potential suitors. Both teams were involved in Stafford talks and currently sit outside of rookie quarterback striking distance.

RELATED: 

Jalen Hurts

, Indianapolis Colts

, Chicago Bears

SOURCE: Jeff McLane on Twitter

Feb 5, 2021, 7:12 PM ET

 

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If Philly can get a 1st or even 2d rder for Wentz they should take it and hit the getaway car....I dont see how hes any different than Goff and it looks like the Rams had to include or up the compensation to get rid of him....

If he goes to Indy I can see Wentz resurrecting his career....if he goes to Chicago I think hes toast....

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Eagles are expected to trade Carson Wentz in "the coming days."

Interest surrounding the 28-year-old has heated up over the past 48 hours, inevitably resulting in Wentz getting dealt as early as this week; it's now a matter of when and where, rather than if he's sent packing at all. Although GM Howie Roseman has been asking for a first-round pick in return, it appears a number of teams outside of suitors who have already been linked to offers (Bears, Colts) are getting in the mix, as well. Philadelphia will be taking on $33.8 million in dead cap, the largest in NFL history, by shedding Wentz but at least have Jalen Hurts to build around in the coming year. The former is notably due $25.4 million in 2021, and $24.7 million annually over the next four seasons.

RELATED: 

Chicago Bears

, Indianapolis Colts

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Feb 6, 2021, 3:16 PM ET

 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

No way any team should give up two 1st rd picks for Wentz.  I don’t think he’s worth one.

It looks like they said a Stafford like package, which when you remove the contract for a 2023 1st part is only 1 first. 

My guess is that the nuance allergic twitter crowd thinks Stafford returned 2 firsts plus. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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Eagles fans, do you think Wentz is a bust or did he just have a down year? Some say he is still a generational talent? Do you agree? Would you prefer to keep him or are you ok with trading him? Thoughts?

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16 minutes ago, 3nOut said:

Eagles fans, do you think Wentz is a bust or did he just have a down year? Some say he is still a generational talent? Do you agree? Would you prefer to keep him or are you ok with trading him? Thoughts?

Discussed extensively in our team thread: https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/791943-official-2021-philadelphia-eagles-thread-the-series-finale-of-as-the-wentz-turns-seems-imminent/

There's no strong consensus. I would say a lot of us like his talent (though the "generational" ship has sailed) but are concerned about how well he takes coaching. And a lot of us would like him to stay but recognize that it looks like the situation between him and the front office is too far gone. 

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bust. who in their right mind is 'aggressively' pursuing Wentz.dude's made of glass and kite string. Eagles need to stop with the 'we want significant compensation' nonsense. if all of this was true he would've been traded long before now.

maybe he's worth a late second rounder, but the kids coming in to the NFL nowadays, they can ball-out. I don't think you need a guy like Wentz when you can find a guy like Justin Herbert. 

Wentz has that Kordell Stewart thing about him.good for a couple years, then fading slowly at first, then full speed.

He's toast,no matter where he goes, he'll suck.

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4 hours ago, Tanner9919 said:

bust. who in their right mind is 'aggressively' pursuing Wentz.dude's made of glass and kite string. Eagles need to stop with the 'we want significant compensation' nonsense. if all of this was true he would've been traded long before now.

maybe he's worth a late second rounder, but the kids coming in to the NFL nowadays, they can ball-out. I don't think you need a guy like Wentz when you can find a guy like Justin Herbert. 

Wentz has that Kordell Stewart thing about him.good for a couple years, then fading slowly at first, then full speed.

He's toast,no matter where he goes, he'll suck.

He hasn’t been the same since he tore his ACL. Maybe he just isn’t as good as we thought after his near MVP year, but have  to think that the majority of his issues are mental.  I don’t see it happening, but maybe a new start and some helpful QB mind can get him back on track.

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts

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