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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts


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I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn'

I think he instantly becomes a top 32 QB.

Are you new here?

9 hours ago, 3nOut said:

Eagles fans, do you think Wentz is a bust or did he just have a down year? Some say he is still a generational talent? Do you agree? Would you prefer to keep him or are you ok with trading him? Thoughts?

Take him please.   Good luck

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The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots are not a "serious suitor" for Carson Wentz. 

ESPN's Adam Schefter has confirmed Wentz will be on the move soon, but we have not heard much in the way of possible destinations. The Patriots have plenty of cap space, have a need under, and feature that sort of experienced offensive coordinator who could turn Wentz around, but they understandably don't seem keen on taking on Wentz's toxic deal after his disastrous 2020. The Patriots will probably think smaller or younger as they take a second crack at replacing Tom Brady. 

RELATED: 

New England Patriots

SOURCE: The Athletic 

Feb 9, 2021, 4:54 PM ET

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Faust said:

 

I think Pats would do themselves a favor just reclaiming the opt outs and signing a couple marque players and drafting. Draft a young gun for a QB, see what filters for qb vets. But draft with a purpose. 

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The Star-Ledger's Mike Kaye reports potential trade partners have been "unwilling to meet the Eagles’ demands" for Carson Wentz.

The Eagles "don’t want to give Wentz up for much less" than what the Lions got for Matthew Stafford. It's an asking price teams are balking at, as the Rams overpaid for Stafford and Wentz is coming off a disastrous 2020. The Colts have asked for a player along with Wentz to help close the gap, while Chicago is "growing impatient" with the Eagles. Wentz is still likely to be dealt, but it may not happen until deeper in the offseason.

- Mike Kaye, Newark Star Ledger

Have the Iggles lost their mind? Wentz is at his lowest value and appears to be a broken QB to other teams. No one is giving multiple 1sts for Wentz, nor should they.

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19 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Are you new here?

I would think after a front office shakeup, some sanity would prevail. I'm an optimist.

 

That being said, the best scenario is a training camp battle with preseason showcase. That'll drive up his value as he should be able to play well then. So while the Iggles' expected compensation is nutso, not trading him now is the best option.

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33 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

 

 

That being said, the best scenario is a training camp battle with preseason showcase. That'll drive up his value as he should be able to play well then. So while the Iggles' expected compensation is nutso, not trading him now is the best option.

I don't think they can wait until training camp if they want to maximize the return. By then, teams will have already have their QB situations determined. Even if a team became desperate due to a key QB injury, I doubt they'd spend a ton knowing it would take time to for Wentz to get integrated into a new offense at that stage.

If not soon, the Eagles may just have to bite the bullet and hope he outplays Hurts and ups his value for next year. 

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I watched a guy that needs to work on new throwing mechanics to play the QB position. You can blame the oline and receivers oh so much, until you watch film and see a guy who couldn't hit anyone, open or not, unless it was in the middle of the field. Floated passes everwhere, to everyone, including simple flare routes to Sanders. So when you hear, truth or not, that Wentz himself doesn't agree on mechanics being an issue, one starts to worry. He needs a new QB coach that will hold him accountable, and work diligently on eliminating all the bad habits that are obvious to the eye, including back foot throws, and a long wind up. His decision making is another issue in itself. He's become a reclamation project that will need an entire off season to work on. I'm pretty sure both the Bears and Colts think they can fix him due to the past working relationships, but I'm not sure those teams will pay Stafford prices for a guy who is far from plug and play.

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15 minutes ago, crushedspirit said:

I watched a guy that needs to work on new throwing mechanics to play the QB position. You can blame the oline and receivers oh so much, until you watch film and see a guy who couldn't hit anyone, open or not, unless it was in the middle of the field. Floated passes everwhere, to everyone, including simple flare routes to Sanders. So when you hear, truth or not, that Wentz himself doesn't agree on mechancics being an issue, one starts to worry. He needs a new QB coach that will hold him accountable, and work diligently on eliminating all the bad habits that are obvious to the eye, including back foot throws, and a long wind up. His decision making is another issue in itself. He's become a reclamation project that will need an entire off season to work on. I'm pretty sure both the Bears and Colts think they can fix him due to the past working relationships, but I'm not sure those teams will pay Stafford prices for a guy who is far from plug and play.

It such a bizarre situation - optimists blame the O Line but the issues lie way deeper than a poor O Line. By any objective metric, Wentz was atrocious last year. Not sure if he was surpassed but at one point he was the leader in uncatchable balls thrown. He was a solid QB before but an athletic article did a huge deep dive into his previous years and it looks like he was outplaying his underlying metrics if that makes sense.

It’s surprising to hear teams like the colts are interested because Wentz carries such a significant risk attached to a hefty salary. But that could just be the Eagles leaking out that info to prop value.

I’m not saying Hurts is the answer - but he comes at a far lower cost and the Eagles roster is aging and not overly talented. Their super bowl window is over. Taking cap hits now might be best bet for that franchise. Play the youngsters, clean up cap situation next couple of years and begin the rebuild in a good financial spot.

 

 

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How the Bucs stopped the Chiefs; why Carson Wentz worries me

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TO CARSON WENTZ SUITORS: Buyer beware

The QB carousel is spinning out of control, with teams swapping signal-callers like crazy to upgrade the most important position on the field. Carson Wentz could be the next quarterback on the move, with the Philadelphia Eagles listening to trade offers on the former MVP candidate.

While it might seem a bit surprising that there appears to be significant interest in a quarterback who led the league in interceptions (15) and sacks (50) and posted a completion percentage and passer rating that ranked in the bottom five among 43 quarterbacks with at least four starts, it makes sense that a few QB-needy teams would want to explore a talented passer with some highlight moments on his résumé.

As a fixer-upper with curb appeal and good "bones," Wentz is certainly an intriguing prospect. The former No. 2 overall pick has played a role in leading the Eagles to three playoff appearances as a mobile playmaker with a rugged mix of arm talent, athleticism and improvisational skills. Those traits are enticing for a general manager or head coach desperate for a signal-caller with the potential to emerge as a long-term solution at the position.

That said, I would take a hard pass on Wentz, based on questions about his intangibles and leadership skills. Although I'm not in the locker room with Wentz and the Eagles, I believe how he handled Jalen Hurts' arrival and his late-season benching in favor of the second-round pick reveals a fatal flaw in Wentz's game. Despite signing a lucrative four-year extension the previous summer that demonstrated the team's commitment to him as the franchise quarterback, Wentz played awful ball for most of the 2020 campaign and reportedly lost his confidencebecause of Hurts' presence in the Eagles' QB room. This is baffling based on how the organization downplayed a quarterback competition at every turn while suggesting the drafting of Hurts was part of the team's desire to create a "QB factory" to produce valuable insurance players or trade commodities at an important position.

The idea that Wentz shrank in the face of a new challenge rather than elevate his game gives me pause. Just look at how Aaron Rodgers responded to the Packers selecting Jordan Love in the first round last April.

After watching Wentz fall apart with a little competition, I wonder what might happen if he encounters adversity at his next home. Will he again crumble when things get hard? Or will he compete and show the football world that he is really the guy?

When things were difficult in Philadelphia this season -- the injuries across the offense were abundant, for one -- and questions arose about a potential QB change, Wentz's play seemingly got worse. And when the switch finally did happen, the spark Hurts provided was undeniable. Can a team that acquires Wentz -- who's suffered multiple season-ending injuries in his five-year career -- put another high-end player or quality backup in the same QB room? Or will they be relegated to bringing in scrubs to assuage their new passer?

Although it's hard to put a lot of stock in quotes attributed to anonymous teammates in internet stories, questions about his leadership skills have plagued the passer for years now. Speculation certainly isn't fact, but the smoke attached to his name will need to be fully investigated by any team looking to acquire his services. The best quarterbacks are connectors with an ability to make every person in the huddle feel important, and if Wentz doesn't have that skill, it will be hard for him to ever win consistently at a high level.

Given the on-field performance, suspect competitiveness and leadership questions, I'd be hesitant to part with significant capital to take on Wentz as part of a rebuilding project this offseason.

 

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2 hours ago, Balco said:

It such a bizarre situation - optimists blame the O Line but the issues lie way deeper than a poor O Line. By any objective metric, Wentz was atrocious last year. Not sure if he was surpassed but at one point he was the leader in uncatchable balls thrown. He was a solid QB before but an athletic article did a huge deep dive into his previous years and it looks like he was outplaying his underlying metrics if that makes sense.

It’s surprising to hear teams like the colts are interested because Wentz carries such a significant risk attached to a hefty salary. But that could just be the Eagles leaking out that info to prop value.

I’m not saying Hurts is the answer - but he comes at a far lower cost and the Eagles roster is aging and not overly talented. Their super bowl window is over. Taking cap hits now might be best bet for that franchise. Play the youngsters, clean up cap situation next couple of years and begin the rebuild in a good financial spot.

 

 

I guess people lock onto the past success, and claim that's who he can be. They forget that much of the current mechanical flaws were also apparent in 2016, but were somewhat corrected by previous coaches. He now looks worse than that previous out-of -college version. The league knows how to defend against him and expose his flaws, and anyone who grabs him will have to re-program him yet again. I would rather have a QB who is plug and play, or a young guy to develop with experience. Wentz is entering his 6th season, and still requires a huge amount of coaching and correcting. Also add his salary, and injury history, and good luck selling him at asking price.

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7 hours ago, crushedspirit said:

I guess people lock onto the past success, and claim that's who he can be.

NFL people look at talent. Have you watched football for a while? If so, how many times have you seen a guy who was supposed to be good leave one team or two and succeed with another? 50, 60, 70+ times? What do you attribute their failure and success to?

When you see Doug Pederson get fired, 3 years removed from a Super Bowl, and only get a single call to be an OC in Seattle, why do you think that is? 

Do you think it’s a coincidence that as the coaching got worse every year as well as the talent so did Wentz?

You are criminally underestimating the value of  coaching and a supporting cast. 

Here is what Wentz accomplished after 2019. Thats without ever having a #1 WR. Most great QB’s have a couple 

Here’s some highlights from 2019. It’s easy to see why teams would want him.

You take the 12 game sample size. Most will take the 40 from ‘17-19

 

 

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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19 hours ago, Balco said:

It such a bizarre situation - optimists blame the O Line but the issues lie way deeper than a poor O Line. By any objective metric, Wentz was atrocious last year. Not sure if he was surpassed but at one point he was the leader in uncatchable balls thrown. He was a solid QB before but an athletic article did a huge deep dive into his previous years and it looks like he was outplaying his underlying metrics if that makes sense.

It’s surprising to hear teams like the colts are interested because Wentz carries such a significant risk attached to a hefty salary. But that could just be the Eagles leaking out that info to prop value.

I’m not saying Hurts is the answer - but he comes at a far lower cost and the Eagles roster is aging and not overly talented. Their super bowl window is over. Taking cap hits now might be best bet for that franchise. Play the youngsters, clean up cap situation next couple of years and begin the rebuild in a good financial spot.

 

 

I have difficulty getting past the leaks over the last couple offseasons about him being a bad teammate. Watching his quality of play deteriorate so quickly in the manner it has it's difficult for me to not connect that dot. The talent isn't the problem; whatever's going on above his neck is. Can it be fixed? That's a leap of faith, but if the Colts are the team to roll the dice I'll be more confident because of Reich's familiarity with him.

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Can he be somewhat successful somewhere else? Of course it's possible with the proper coaching, and constant hands-on that is pretty evident he requires. Does every successful QB that changes scenery require mechanical changes, and constant hands-on coaching? He is far from plug and play, that much is evident to all. Do QBs like Stafford and Watson require such hands-on training? How about Carr and Wilson, if they are dealt? Wentz is a project, and to many, not worth the asking price. He had warts in 2016, and they have returned. Entering his 6th season, and still needing this type of work to squeeze any success out of, might be a red flag for many. Wentz needs to admit his mechanics are broken, and that his decision making was horrible last season. He then needs to dedicate himself to fixing it all. Take ownership, and work hard. Show potential suitors you will stop at nothing to succeed. What has he shown since being benched?

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21 hours ago, zamboni said:

I don't think they can wait until training camp if they want to maximize the return. By then, teams will have already have their QB situations determined. Even if a team became desperate due to a key QB injury, I doubt they'd spend a ton knowing it would take time to for Wentz to get integrated into a new offense at that stage.

If not soon, the Eagles may just have to bite the bullet and hope he outplays Hurts and ups his value for next year. 

agreed - they need to strike now while the iron is hot and the other QB dominoes have yet to fall.....in few weeks it will be too late and if Wentz is outplayed in preseason he will be worthless and stuck on the payroll through 2022 and creating a monster distraction.....generally curious what the best offer is,  If its anything close to one 1st rder they should jump on it and move on before its too late

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The Athletic's Zak Keefer reports NFL teams are "showing over the last week that they're not gonna budge on the Eagles' very, very steep initial offer" for Carson Wentz. 

Keefer named the Colts and implied other teams are in the market for Wentz, who is certainly on his way out of Philadelphia. The Bears have reportedly shown interest in acquiring Wentz, but even a QB-hungry team like Chicago seems unwilling to pay a premium for Wentz. The Eagles reportedly don't want to give up Wentz for less than the Lions got from the Rams for Matthew Stafford -- namely, a 2021 third-round pick, a 2022 first-round pick, and a 2023 first-round pick. Wentz's total debacle of a 2020 campaign complicates things for Philadephia. The Wentz trade rumors could persist for weeks -- or months -- unless the Eagles budge. 

RELATED: 

Indianapolis Colts

, Chicago Bears

SOURCE: Zak Keefer on Twitter 

Feb 12, 2021, 11:27 AM ET

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Faust said:

The Athletic's Zak Keefer reports NFL teams are "showing over the last week that they're not gonna budge on the Eagles' very, very steep initial offer" for Carson Wentz. 

Keefer named the Colts and implied other teams are in the market for Wentz, who is certainly on his way out of Philadelphia. The Bears have reportedly shown interest in acquiring Wentz, but even a QB-hungry team like Chicago seems unwilling to pay a premium for Wentz. The Eagles reportedly don't want to give up Wentz for less than the Lions got from the Rams for Matthew Stafford -- namely, a 2021 third-round pick, a 2022 first-round pick, and a 2023 first-round pick. Wentz's total debacle of a 2020 campaign complicates things for Philadephia. The Wentz trade rumors could persist for weeks -- or months -- unless the Eagles budge. 

RELATED: 

Indianapolis Colts

, Chicago Bears

SOURCE: Zak Keefer on Twitter 

Feb 12, 2021, 11:27 AM ET

All I can say is good luck with that.

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1 hour ago, DropKick said:

I'd deal Wentz for a bag of chips and a coke.  And you could probably negotiate me out of the soda if you're a smooth talker.

Soda is equivalent to injecting poison into your body.  How is that for negotiating? There is zero reason for the Eagles to sell Wentz at his lowest point in his career for a bag of chips.    :shrug: 

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10 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Soda is equivalent to injecting poison into your body.  How is that for negotiating? There is zero reason for the Eagles to sell Wentz at his lowest point in his career for a bag of chips.    :shrug: 

Even Ginger Ale?  OK, I'll take the chips.

The Eagles own the player and the contract.   I understand the desire to get "something" for the player but moving on from the contract has value, if you're convinced that Wentz isn't your guy.  So, there is some rationale.  Plus, I really like chips.

The Rams gave up three picks, including two firsts.  One of those is to unload the contract.  Obviously, NFL teams want to maximize value and some of the rumored demands is to that end.  Its likely they find a trade partner.  The Colts are the first team that comes to my mind as they have the pieces to succeed now and just lost Rivers.  I don't think they'll see a Stafford type return, but we'll see.

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NFL analyst Ron Jaworski reports the Colts have offered "two second-round draft picks" for Carson Wentz.

It's the best offer the Eagles have for Wentz. The Eagles are holding out for a Matthew Stafford type deal, but that's not going to happen. Teams have been unwilling to even offer a late first-round pick for Wentz. The Wentz market has cooled in recent weeks, with Chicago reportedly losing interest. Philly is going to have to come off its asking price to trade Wentz this offseason.

RELATED: 

Indianapolis Colts

SOURCE: WPVI Philadelphia

Feb 13, 2021, 11:36 AM ET

 

 

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I really don't understand the mock drafts that have the Eagles trading Wentz and then trading up to draft a QB.  What am I missing here?  Isn't one of the reasons that Wentz is getting traded because Hurts looked pretty good? 

I really think that drafting Hurts destroyed Wentz's confidence, creating the situation they are in now.  So why would they do the same thing again?

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2 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I really don't understand the mock drafts that have the Eagles trading Wentz and then trading up to draft a QB.  What am I missing here?  Isn't one of the reasons that Wentz is getting traded because Hurts looked pretty good? 

I really think that drafting Hurts destroyed Wentz's confidence, creating the situation they are in now.  So why would they do the same thing again?

You haven’t heard? Philly is self proclaimed by Howie as a “Quarterback Factory”😂. Thank God the Trust in Howie crowd has come to their senses... Maybe one day Lurie will.

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18 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I really don't understand the mock drafts that have the Eagles trading Wentz and then trading up to draft a QB.  What am I missing here?  Isn't one of the reasons that Wentz is getting traded because Hurts looked pretty good? 

I really think that drafting Hurts destroyed Wentz's confidence, creating the situation they are in now.  So why would they do the same thing again?

I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn't make sense to move up for a QB.

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On 2/14/2021 at 8:02 AM, JohnnyU said:

I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn't make sense to move up for a QB.

Agreed.  NFL players face competition all of the time.  Perhaps the manner in which the Eagles handled the situation contributed somewhat to Wentz's declining confidence, but mostly, poor play is what shook Wentz's psyche last season.  

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6 hours ago, socrates said:

Agreed.  NFL players face competition all of the time.  Perhaps the manner in which the Eagles handled the situation contributed somewhat to Wentz's declining confidence, but mostly, poor play is what shook Wentz's psyche last season.  

Flawed qb went from playing with a very good line to a very poor one. You saw the results.

After the eagles turned down 2 seconds I'm not sure they trade him anymore. Hard to see anyone paying more. And lets not compare him to Stafford.

Edited by voiceofunreason
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2 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Flawed qb went from playing with a very good line to a very poor one. You saw the results.

After the eagles turned down 2 seconds I'm not sure they trade him anymore. Hard to see anyone paying more. And lets not compare him to Stafford.

A team already offered more.

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On 2/11/2021 at 12:15 AM, Bigboy10182000 said:

NFL people look at talent. Have you watched football for a while? If so, how many times have you seen a guy who was supposed to be good leave one team or two and succeed with another? 50, 60, 70+ times? What do you attribute their failure and success to?

When you see Doug Pederson get fired, 3 years removed from a Super Bowl, and only get a single call to be an OC in Seattle, why do you think that is? 

Do you think it’s a coincidence that as the coaching got worse every year as well as the talent so did Wentz?

You are criminally underestimating the value of  coaching and a supporting cast. 

Here is what Wentz accomplished after 2019. Thats without ever having a #1 WR. Most great QB’s have a couple 

Here’s some highlights from 2019. It’s easy to see why teams would want him.

You take the 12 game sample size. Most will take the 40 from ‘17-19

 

 

Does it say anything to you that the coach that might know him best, the coach that had him when he had his one good year won’t offer a first for him? As the HC of a contender that is in dire need of a QB?

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1 minute ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Does it say anything to you that the coach that might know him best, the coach that had him when he had his one good year won’t offer a first for him? As the HC of a contender that is in dire need of a QB?

On 2/16/21 there’s no need to give a first for him if you’re Indy. Wentz has a roster bonus of 10 million I believe to be paid on 3/19/21 and I expect Indy to get as close to that as possible. 

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25 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Does it say anything to you that the coach that might know him best, the coach that had him when he had his one good year won’t offer a first for him? As the HC of a contender that is in dire need of a QB?

Could be, but I imagine it’s as much about the contract/cap hit as it is about Wentz himself.

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22 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

On 2/16/21 there’s no need to give a first for him if you’re Indy. Wentz has a roster bonus of 10 million I believe to be paid on 3/19/21 and I expect Indy to get as close to that as possible. 

They’re not worried about someone else trading for him I guess

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6 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

They’re not worried about someone else trading for him I guess

Why would they be worried?

A bidding war doesn’t start with internet reports/rumors. When/if the Eagles get a desirable offer they will 100% give the other interested parties a chance to beat said offer. 

All we know for sure right now is that the asking price hasn’t been met, but that’s it. 

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Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer believes the Bears are the "front runner" for Carson Wentz.

Chicago is competing with the Colts, who have reportedly offered two second-round picks, and other quarterback-needy teams. It's unclear what the Bears have offered the Eagles or if they have sent a concrete offer at this point, but the delay right now is Eagles GM Howie Roseman's trade demands. A trade standoff can only drag on so long, however, because the Eagles have to make cap decisions in regards to other veterans under contract. The Philly front office can't properly restructure the contracts they need to fit under the salary cap if Wentz's status is up in the air. Breer also mentions that the Bears coaching staff believes they can fix the mechanical issues Wentz developed in the years since his back and ACL surgeries. Aside from Deshaun Watson, the Wentz trade drama is at the top of 2021 offseason headlines.

RELATED: 

Chicago Bears

, Indianapolis Colts

SOURCE: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Feb 16, 2021, 1:43 PM ET

 

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On 2/16/2021 at 8:36 AM, Bigboy10182000 said:

Why would they be worried?

A bidding war doesn’t start with internet reports/rumors. When/if the Eagles get a desirable offer they will 100% give the other interested parties a chance to beat said offer. 

All we know for sure right now is that the asking price hasn’t been met, but that’s it. 

Aren't you the guy that told me they fired the head coach so they could keep Wentz happy?

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Colts acquired Carson Wentz from the Eagles in exchange for a 2021 third-round pick and conditional 2022 second-round pick.

The conditional second-rounder becomes a first-round pick if Wentz plays 75 percent of the snaps or 70 percent and the team makes the playoffs. The Eagles will also take on $33.8 million in dead-money cap penalties, the largest number in league history for one player. It's a far cry from the "multiple firsts" GM Howie Roseman was in the market for, but clearly the organization's best offer on the table after the Bears reportedly lost interest. Fresh off a season in which he led the league in fumbles, interceptions, and sacks taken and benched accordingly after 12 games, Wentz, 28, will have an opportunity to start anew with a supporting cast that's already built to contend. Jalen Hurts meanwhile will likely open the fantasy year as a top-10 option at his position barring an insurgence of another quarterback with the No. 6 overall pick.

RELATED: 

Jalen Hurts

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Feb 18, 2021, 11:47 AM ET

 

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts
16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I'd have been skeptical had he gone somewhere else, but no reason not to trust Frank Reich on this one.

Nope and with their OL, running game and Wentz’s familiarity with him the Colts looks to be a top 2-3 team in the AFC. 

Fantasy wise Wentz is now very intriguing. 

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