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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts

Faust

By Faust,
in The Shark Pool (NFL Talk)

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JohnnyU

I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn'

foxco

I think he instantly becomes a top 32 QB.

JetMaxx

Are you new here?

renesauz

renesauz 3,055

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Kid has ice in his veins. The NFL is most certainly NOT too big for him.

He'll have some bad games, but all the small school not-ready talk was BS

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Doctor Detroit

Doctor Detroit 20,905

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10 minutes ago, renesauz said:

Kid has ice in his veins. The NFL is most certainly NOT too big for him.

He'll have some bad games, but all the small school not-ready talk was BS

Not really sure why this is even a thing.  Flacco, Big Ben, Romo, Carr, etc came from smaller schools.  If the guy has the physical tools, the smarts, and the opportunity it doesn't matter what college he played for.  He was taken 2nd overall, it's not like he's some 5th round flier who was just thrown into the fire because of injuries.  The Eagles decided he was ready now, they traded Bradford, and Wentz is the starter. 

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mquinnjr

mquinnjr 3,050

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17 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Wentz looks like the real deal.

Congrats to Eagles fans. I feel for Browns fans though, looks like team passed on another premium skill player.

I have to think they're playing for Watson and taking the picks haul to plug other areas of need. Might be awful generous, but it has to be that. Right?

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fightingillini

fightingillini 713

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20 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

Not really sure why this is even a thing.  Flacco, Big Ben, Romo, Carr, etc came from smaller schools.  If the guy has the physical tools, the smarts, and the opportunity it doesn't matter what college he played for.  He was taken 2nd overall, it's not like he's some 5th round flier who was just thrown into the fire because of injuries.  The Eagles decided he was ready now, they traded Bradford, and Wentz is the starter. 

Even if Wentz wasn't completely ready, they would have traded Bradford given what MIN offered them.  That was highway robbery.

It now looks even better since Wentz does look like a legit NFL QB.  But I do want to see it against a much better defense.

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Bob Magaw

Bob Magaw 2,525

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The Baptism of Carson Wentz

Everyone said he wasn't ready for this.
Here's why everyone was wrong. Dan Pompei

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/the-baptism-of-carson-wentz/

* Thanks to Waldman for bringing this article to my attention.

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Bob Magaw

Bob Magaw 2,525

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6 hours ago, Faust said:

Carson Wentz breaks record held by Tom Brady to begin his NFL career

Favorite for Rookie of the Year over Prescott, Elliot and any of the WRs so far.

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Ketamine Dreams

Ketamine Dreams 738

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Wow, just an amazing start. Three games in a row of looking like a stellar player. Yeah, the first two were just against Cleveland and the lowly Bears, but this one today really puts him on the map. How far do you bump him up your dynasty rankings? Also, if he can do that to the Steelers D, where do you put him in redraft ROS????

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bumpman

bumpman 96

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I'm trying to temper my excitement, but it is hard not to see this guy as possibly elite in the coming years.  It is still early and I supposed defenses might be able to find some weakness to exploit with more tape, but his skill set, intelligence, work ethic and demeanor really has me thinking he could be the next great QB (i.e., better than the guys drafted in 2015 and 2014).  Imagine what he could be with a true WR1 talent catching his passes.  :shock:

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Bigboy10182000

Bigboy10182000 3,965

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6 hours ago, bumpman said:

I'm trying to temper my excitement, but it is hard not to see this guy as possibly elite in the coming years.  It is still early and I supposed defenses might be able to find some weakness to exploit with more tape, but his skill set, intelligence, work ethic and demeanor really has me thinking he could be the next great QB (i.e., better than the guys drafted in 2015 and 2014).  Imagine what he could be with a true WR1 talent catching his passes.  :shock:

I think you're starting to see it this season.  Just to put things in perspective....he wasn't the starter here after our 4th pre-season game and only became the starter a week before the season once we dealt Bradford.  When you factor that in along with our skill players it's incredible what he's done.  He'll have 2 weeks to adjust more to the pro game with our bye and come out against Detroit and Washington.  Look out

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Snotbubbles

Snotbubbles 928

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6 hours ago, bumpman said:

I'm trying to temper my excitement, but it is hard not to see this guy as possibly elite in the coming years.  It is still early and I supposed defenses might be able to find some weakness to exploit with more tape, but his skill set, intelligence, work ethic and demeanor really has me thinking he could be the next great QB (i.e., better than the guys drafted in 2015 and 2014).  Imagine what he could be with a true WR1 talent catching his passes.  :shock:

The guy is amazing to watch live.  I mean he threw one ball away yesterday, every other ball was right on the money.  He just hasn't made a bad throw.  I've never seen anything like it.   

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Bob Magaw

Bob Magaw 2,525

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He has the kind of accuracy that doesn't just lead to a catch, but a catch right on the numbers in stride where his receiver can generate RAC. Also has the awareness, savvy, ability to read coverages, accuracy and touch to throw it where only his receiver can catch it. Some scouts compared him to Roethlisberger, I don't know if he is better at a comparable stage of development (maybe smarter football IQ-wise with similar physical ability, athleticism and skills?), but PHI fans will be pretty happy if his first year unfolds similarly as a starter. He will be 24 later this year and I think his maturity and physical development have been a big part of his success. Don't get me wrong, many 34 year old QBs are NEVER this good, just that he might not have enjoyed this level of success ON HIS OWN TERMS if he had come out as a third year junior (if he had started 2-3 seasons) instead of fifth year senior.      

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Long Ball Larry

Long Ball Larry 14,303

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48 minutes ago, Bob Magaw said:

He has the kind of accuracy that doesn't just lead to a catch, but a catch right on the numbers in stride where his receiver can generate RAC. Also has the awareness, savvy, ability to read coverages, accuracy and touch to throw it where only his receiver can catch it. Some scouts compared him to Roethlisberger, I don't know if he is better at a comparable stage of development (maybe smarter football IQ-wise with similar physical ability, athleticism and skills?), but PHI fans will be pretty happy if his first year unfolds similarly as a starter. He will be 24 later this year and I think his maturity and physical development have been a big part of his success. Don't get me wrong, many 34 year old QBs are NEVER this good, just that he might not have enjoyed this level of success ON HIS OWN TERMS if he had come out as a third year junior (if he had started 2-3 seasons) instead of fifth year senior.      

I think the comparison to Ben is mainly based on supposed size.  Ben is listed at 6'5", 240 and Wentz at 6'5" 237.  But I think Ben has probably played at more like 265 for much of his career and is really much more stout.  I don't think that Wentz is like that.  (though everything people say Wentz is not eventually gets proven wrong, so who knows...)

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Bob Magaw

Bob Magaw 2,525

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13 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

I think the comparison to Ben is mainly based on supposed size.  Ben is listed at 6'5", 240 and Wentz at 6'5" 237.  But I think Ben has probably played at more like 265 for much of his career and is really much more stout.  I don't think that Wentz is like that.  (though everything people say Wentz is not eventually gets proven wrong, so who knows...)

Thanks for the clarification, excellent point. It looks like they were comparable size early in Big Ben's career, but right, I wouldn't expect Wentz to get up to 265 lbs. if that is indeed what Big Ben is, I didn't realize he was THAT big (but it kind of makes sense when he shrugs off DL and LBs like they are gnats, sheesh, that would make him BIGGER than some DEs and nearly all LBs attempting to take him down). Ben and Cam are two of the stoutest and strongest QBs I've ever seen, really freaks. Maybe somewhat throwbacks to Roman Gabriel? He was 6'5", just 225 lbs., but that was a monster when he was drafted in 1962 (second overall in the NFL, first overall by the AFL).

Agreed, Wentz will probably never have that kind of tackle breaking power and stature in the pocket, so he will have to find other aspects of his game to try to win Super Bowls with. I can't possibly imagine a better start to his career, as some on the thread know I was high on him, but virtually zero people (including Lurie, Pederson, Reich, Wentz, his parents, etc.) could have foreseen THIS. Congrats to PHI fans.     

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1557&draftyear=2004&genpos=QB

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Bigboy10182000

Bigboy10182000 3,965

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4 minutes ago, Bob Magaw said:

Thanks for the clarification, excellent point. It looks like they were comparable size early in Big Ben's career, but right, I wouldn't expect Wentz to get up to 265 lbs. if that is indeed what Big Ben is, I didn't realize he was THAT big (but it kind of makes sense when he shrugs off DL and LBs like they are gnats, sheesh, that would make him BIGGER than some DEs and nearly all LBs). Ben and Cam are two of the stoutest and strongest QBs I've ever seen, really freaks. Maybe somewhat throwbacks to Roman Gabriel? He was 6'5", just 225 lbs., but that was a monster when he was drafted in 1962 (second overall in the NFL, first overall by the AFL).

Agreed, Wentz will probably never have that kind of tackle breaking power and stature in the pocket, so he will have to find other aspects of his game to try to win Super Bowls with. I can't possibly imagine a better start to his career, as some on the thread know I was high on him, but virtually zero people (including Lurie, Pederson, Reich, Wentz, his parents, etc.) could have foreseen THIS. Congrats to PHI fans.     

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1557&draftyear=2004&genpos=QB

Doug even acknowledged this point this morning.  He said (paraphrasing) when he first viewed Wentz that he liked him better than Goff and didn't care which school he (Wentz) went to, felt like he could be a good starter after a year of developing.

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mnmplayer

mnmplayer 447

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Holy crap I picked up this guy after I watched him play last week (then looked at his earlier games). Looks like a vet out there calling the game and has all the tools. He's playing better than his stats show right now. That will change. Don't care that he has a bye upcoming. That helped keep his cost down.

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Mister CIA

Mister CIA 8,610

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Can we pass a little judgment here? ...dynasty discussion intended.

CW Owners: Would you trade Wentz for a prospective top-6 2017 pick? I say no, because as an owner, I feel like I've got a guy firmly ranked as a top 5 QB for the next ten years. I like set it, and forget it, stud scorers.

If I was offered top-3 rookie pick value  - maybe.

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BigTex

BigTex 859

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44 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

Can we pass a little judgment here? ...dynasty discussion intended.

CW Owners: Would you trade Wentz for a prospective top-6 2017 pick? I say no, because as an owner, I feel like I've got a guy firmly ranked as a top 5 QB for the next ten years. I like set it, and forget it, stud scorers.

If I was offered top-3 rookie pick value  - maybe.

It would depends on who's available and who's declaring for the draft in 2017.

Tex

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King of the Jungle

King of the Jungle 1,435

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His value may also be at an all time high. As the Cosell article mentions, Pederson and staff have done an incredible job scripting the offense. This was evident when I watched the Bears game. Credit to Wentz for sure, however there will be struggles ahead. NFL defenses catch on quickly. He has a lot of characteristics for long term success but we are a ways away from determining he is a top five QB. Mariotta started his rookie year with a 4 touchdown game....followed by 250-2.... followed by 360-2. You would be lucky to get a decent skill player for Marcus now. I am not saying to sell Wentz....but if a king's ransom is offered it should be considered.

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