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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts


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I'm not sure they would draft a QB, but I also think that if drafting Hurts ruined Wentz's confidence, that doesn't say much for Wentz's mental strength.  I also think Hurts looked good and it wouldn'

I think he instantly becomes a top 32 QB.

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38 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

I'm with KOTJ here. The hype is out of control. He might be great already, but he might be someone who played the BEARS AND BROWNS. Maybe tap the brakes once or twice before you trade Rodgers for him.

He also hammered the Steelers. They're not exactly the Steel Curtain of old, but still no slouch of a defense either.

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9 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

Can we pass a little judgment here? ...dynasty discussion intended.

CW Owners: Would you trade Wentz for a prospective top-6 2017 pick? I say no, because as an owner, I feel like I've got a guy firmly ranked as a top 5 QB for the next ten years. I like set it, and forget it, stud scorers.

If I was offered top-3 rookie pick value  - maybe.

Might depend on the league too. IN some scoring systems QB values just aren't all that special relative to RBs or WRs. (IE: the #5 QB is no more valuable than the 15th or 20th WR)

IN a six point passing TD league though, I could certainly see holding onto Wentz

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Disclaimer: I'm a dynasty owner

His value in dynasty has leapt from a low QB #2 to a top 5-7 in a matter of a month. Others probably won't value him as highly as current owners do, but if you can get top dollar for him now I'd certainly consider it. Otherwise I'd keep him and enjoy the points. We play 6pt all TDs, so as stated above his value is even slightly more. I personally think he's a top 5 guy over Bortles, Rodgers, Ben, and Mariota. 

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2 hours ago, zamboni said:

He also hammered the Steelers. They're not exactly the Steel Curtain of old, but still no slouch of a defense either.

What's really impressive is he hasn't had any bad throws.  Even when Foles went 29-2 he had so many bad passes that should have been picked.  Wentz is right on the money with almost every single throw.  There hasn't been one "whoa, he got away with one there" moment. 

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5 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

His value may also be at an all time high. As the Cosell article mentions, Pederson and staff have done an incredible job scripting the offense. This was evident when I watched the Bears game. Credit to Wentz for sure, however there will be struggles ahead. NFL defenses catch on quickly. He has a lot of characteristics for long term success but we are a ways away from determining he is a top five QB. Mariotta started his rookie year with a 4 touchdown game....followed by 250-2.... followed by 360-2. You would be lucky to get a decent skill player for Marcus now. I am not saying to sell Wentz....but if a king's ransom is offered it should be considered.

I agree with this 100%! The same for Dak and any other Rookie QB. Wait til week 5 or 6 when teams have enough film. Yes all theses guys look really good and that can't be taken away from them. They are definitely a special talent let's see how the rest of the season shapes out. If you are going to sell, sell NOW!

 

Tex

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2 hours ago, Monkian said:

 

You did.

Okay, does anyone have more insight into Wenz rushing more than 2-4 times for 10-15 yards? Reason being is our league gives extra points for # of rushes. QB's who run the ball well have value. Perhaps the Eagles are giving the rookie more options and opening things up?

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40 minutes ago, Team Smokin' said:

Okay, does anyone have more insight into Wenz rushing more than 2-4 times for 10-15 yards? Reason being is our league gives extra points for # of rushes. QB's who run the ball well have value. Perhaps the Eagles are giving the rookie more options and opening things up?

They don't want him taking unnecessary shots so I would not rely on him running. Sure he will take off but he will slide or run out of bounds. At least that is what they want. This is not a guy you want taking shots.

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37 minutes ago, lod001 said:

They don't want him taking unnecessary shots so I would not rely on him running. Sure he will take off but he will slide or run out of bounds. At least that is what they want. This is not a guy you want taking shots.

Correct. It will be more to keep defenses off-ballance/catch them with their pants down. Maybe two designed running plays a game at an absolute max.

Wentz is always looking downfield for his playmakers. Running is a last resort. On the 70 yd TD pass to sproles he had room to run but was very cognizant to run parallel to the LOS and let the recievers get open.

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Praise for Carson Wentz's performance at the Reese's Senior Bowl as a top quarterback prospect was prevalent, but it wasn't unanimous. The former North Dakota State star will still have some doubters entering the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis later this month.

Two of them, both NFL personnel executives, spoke to NFL Media analyst Lance Zierlein.

"One said 'Boy, that North Dakota State kid is way overrated.' And the other one texted me and said 'After watching him for a full week, there is no way I would draft Carson Wentz in the first round,'" Zierlein said on The Pick Is In podcast. "Now, by most media accounts, the draft media, Carson Wentz did just fine. A lot of people called him a winner of draft day. Depends on what you're looking for. But that's an example of how people can see these prospects very, very differently."

:lmao: Gotta be the Browns and the 49ers. Somehow these guys are probably still are employed.

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56 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Praise for Carson Wentz's performance at the Reese's Senior Bowl as a top quarterback prospect was prevalent, but it wasn't unanimous. The former North Dakota State star will still have some doubters entering the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis later this month.

Two of them, both NFL personnel executives, spoke to NFL Media analyst Lance Zierlein.

"One said 'Boy, that North Dakota State kid is way overrated.' And the other one texted me and said 'After watching him for a full week, there is no way I would draft Carson Wentz in the first round,'" Zierlein said on The Pick Is In podcast. "Now, by most media accounts, the draft media, Carson Wentz did just fine. A lot of people called him a winner of draft day. Depends on what you're looking for. But that's an example of how people can see these prospects very, very differently."

:lmao: Gotta be the Browns and the 49ers. Somehow these guys are probably still are employed.

It was draft time, it was likely two people who wanted his draft stock to drop so they could have an opportunity take him.

Tex

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/theres-something-wrong-with-carson-wentzs-throwing-style-and-much-of-nfl-has-caught-on-011427565.html

There's something wrong with Carson Wentz's throwing style and NFL teams are catching on

... the common theme in the assessments of multiple NFL personnel evaluators who say Wentz is exhibiting some of the mechanical flaws that he illustrated prior to the NFL draft. And evaluators say they are manifesting in accuracy issues and the length of time it takes for Wentz to deliver the ball after making a decision.

...it’s leading to some accuracy issues and mistakes. Two issues in particular are sticking out to those who have viewed the rookie quarterback: a long-armed looping windup that needs to be more compact; and an awkward arm position in the middle of his throwing motion that is slowing down his delivery.

One NFC East source likened Wentz’s arm positioning to something from a baseball pitcher. Another evaluator said the rookie displayed “bountiful bad arm angles” during his throwing motion.

“[The] ball is dropped down, turned out, then looped back around,” one evaluator said. “With his long arms and that motion, [it’s] very hard to be accurate. Especially on the move. … [The] inability to get the ball out quick and on time is key.”

 

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3 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Dorial was targeted a whopping 10 times but only caught 4 balls.  How many were drops?  And any red zone targets?

As far as I remember DGB only had one ball you could classify as a drop. Wentz airmailed him on 3-4 separate occasions, including twice on passes of maybe 10 yards. Do you know how hard it is to airmail a guy with DGB's wingspan at 10 yards? And I don't think any WR got a single RZ target yesterday - every time Wentz dropped back inside the CIN 20, I, my buddies, and everyone in Paul Brown Stadium seemed to know the ball was going either to a RB out of the backfield or to Ertz.

No real way to sugarcoat yesterday's performance, other than he's a rookie and even future HOFers throw up these sorts of craptastic performances once in a while as rookies. Swallow the medicine and let's move on to next Sunday.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/07/frank-reich-on-carson-wentz-losing-wears-on-you/

...Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz’s rookie season got off to a fast start as he played very well in three wins to open the year and raise expectations for what the Eagles might be able to do during the 2016 season.

The last nine games haven’t gone nearly as well. The Eagles have lost seven of those games, knocking them out of the playoff picture, and Wentz’s play has tailed off along with it. He’s thrown eight interceptions in the last five games after throwing three in the first seven contests, his completion percentage has dropped and the Eagles haven’t scored more than 15 points in any of their last three games.

On Tuesday, offensive coordinator Frank Reich said he believes the downturn has gotten to Wentz. Reich said that the “most confident quarterbacks in the world lose their confidence and get battered” at times, something he suggested has happened to Wentz while adding that he thinks Wentz will rebound.

“Well, for a while I thought he seemed totally unflappable,” Reich said at his press conference. “Now, in some of the more recent losses, do you sense that this is, ‘Okay, he’s feeling this one, he’s feeling this one?’ Yeah, we’re all feeling it. I think he was that young, naïve — in a good sense — but still very mature guy who came in and it was like, ‘Nothing is going to get this guy down.’ But it wears on you. It wears on you.

 

 

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000752940/article/pederson-eagles-working-to-fix-wentzs-mechanics?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

Quote

 

Pederson, Eagles working to fix Wentz's mechanics

... Quarterbacks with long deliveries tend to absorb more hits, throw more passes that are batted or deflected and lapse into extended periods of scattershot ball placement. Against Cincinnati, a staggering six of Wentz's throws were batted at the line, three were intercepted and three more were dropped by Bengals defenders.

... Although the issues with Wentz's delivery are coming to a head in early December, they have been latent since the draft's No. 2 overall pick arrived in Philadelphia. After his rather uneven preseason debut in early August, the Around The NFL Podcast put Wentz's sloppy mechanics under the microscope.

... "We've worked on his feet, we've worked on a little bit of the upper body mechanics, we don't feel like it's a slow release," Pederson explained in response to the criticism. "It can be long at times because he's such a long guy. It can be Colin Kaepernick-long at times."

... Similar to Blake Bortles in Jacksonville, Wentz is flashing a long-armed looping windup in which the ball often drops to his waist level. In other instances, his shoulder is flying open and his base is unsteady.

..."Augmenting (a throwing motion) is a lot of process, process, process. A lot of repetition. And it can be incremental -- maybe even several years," one evaluator recently told Yahoo! Sports' Charles Robinson. "There is some elimination involved that can wreak havoc with a quarterback mentally. So you have to be careful with it -- try some things and if the changes start making problems worse, you move on to something else.

"That's why it's an offseason thing because you need the time to be deliberate. ... It's not easy. You can tinker and get really bad (results)."

 

 

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He'll have 8 months to work on the mechanics issues.  Seeing how he is I trust that he'll do everything he can to get better.  Now just have to hope they add some weapons around him in the off-season.  A Jeffery signing and a WR in round 1 (Williams maybe?) would help him out a ton.

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The Philadelphia Inquirer's Marcus Hayes reports Eagles coaches were "not thrilled" Carson Wentz sought outside help with his mechanics over the winter.

Only NFL coaches would be mad about a player trying to better himself. Coaches aren't allowed offseason contact with players, so Wentz hired 3DQB gurus Adam Dedeaux and Tom House. Coach Doug Pederson "sneered" when asked about it at the Eagles' first OTA. Wentz is now hesitant to return to 3DQB this summer.
 
 
May 24 - 8:55 AM

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The Philadelphia Daily News' Jeff McLane reports Carson Wentz looks stronger and is showing better mechanics during OTAs.

McLane said Wentz's "spirals are tighter" and none of his "20 or so throws" sailed, which was a problem last season. Normally this could be dismissed as fluff, but Wentz did work with 3DQB gurus Adam Dedeaux and Tom House in the spring "It's really just cleaning up some things from an efficiency standpoint," Wentz said of the work. "No mass overhaul, nothing really major. ... A lot of it having to do with footwork." With better weapons and an intact offensive line, Wentz should take a step forward as a sophomore.
 
 
May 27 - 11:32 AM

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I think the mostly former QB staff took umbrage that they couldn't help Carson fix his mechanics in OTAs and Camp. I think it's good Carson didn't wait that long and got it taken care of. The NFL CBA doesn't allow a lot of time to work on mechanics. Good to see Carson take it upon himself to improve.

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On 7/14/2017 at 4:49 PM, Faust said:

I make it a point to never, ever read ALL-CAPS links because they're invariably misleading clickbait.

I made an exception here because it's my Birds, and sure enough, here's the complete extent of Pederson's actual words:

Quote

Pederson, in an interview with Comcast SportsNet's John Clark, said he hopes to "take a little bit off" Wentz's plate in 2017.

---

“I think you can take a little bit off of Carson," Pederson said when asked what he'd like to change in 2017. "What I mean by that is I don’t think you have to load his plate every Sunday. I think now with the addition of LeGarrette Blount in the running game and the receivers we have, I think now that you have opportunities to take a little pressure [off].

"Everything doesn’t have to fall on Carson’s shoulders and I think sometimes a little bit last year he felt that way and things had to fall his way a little bit to make a play and I don’t think we have to do that this year."

---

"I think we can be patient," Pederson said. "We still want to be ball-control like we were last year, but I think now with the opportunities we have, that he has, creating plays I think it will just benefit Carson and the team as a whole."

Not only was there not one mention of Carson feeling too much was asked of him, there wasn't a single word in the entire article that Pederson actually attributes to Wentz. In other words, it's 100% misleading clickbait. Shocker!

Internet sports headline writers need to be rounded up and thrown into a dungeon.

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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:30 PM, need2know said:

Eagles will run the hell out of the ball if possible.  I think blount is a great mid round rb2.  Could do a hell of a lot worse

I'm really not sure about this.  Doug and Reich seemed to feel very confident and comfortable with him throwing a ton last season with awful weapons, 2nd and 3rd string OL and just a week to prepare as a starter last season.

This year reminds me of what Andy did after getting T.O..  He threw a good bit with McNabb and the weapons were bad....they finally have some now and I just don't see him scaling it back.

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22 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I'm really not sure about this.  Doug and Reich seemed to feel very confident and comfortable with him throwing a ton last season with awful weapons, 2nd and 3rd string OL and just a week to prepare as a starter last season.

This year reminds me of what Andy did after getting T.O..  He threw a good bit with McNabb and the weapons were bad....they finally have some now and I just don't see him scaling it back.

Pederson and Reich may be open to changing their philosophy on passing a ton considering how poorly Wentz performed during his last 12 games. 

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3 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Pederson and Reich may be open to changing their philosophy on passing a ton considering how poorly Wentz performed during his last 12 games. 

Only if they feel he's the same player.  By all accounts he's been very much improved, as has the OL and weapons.  I'm not saying it's a sure thing but if he topped 600 attempts again I wouldn't be shocked

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What Doug is cryptically getting to there is that he knows he asked Carson to throw the ball waaaaaay too much last year. But it was out of necessity. The RBs sucked and the oline was lost without Lane. Hopefully Doug learns from that but anyone expect a ground and pound offense all of a sudden is fooling themselves. Eagles will still be a predominantly passing offense. I just hope the balance gets closer to 65-35 this year rather than 80-20.

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Took him super late as a backup QB this year so tagging this thread for future development.  I think the kid has a ton of talent, is smart, and has a great work ethic.  Curious to see how his sophomore season works out. 

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It's tough to tell with such a young player but I am bearish on Wentz as a fantasy QB. After the first four weeks when he took the league by storm, he came crashing down to Earth in a big way R.O.S. I anticipate he will improve as a QB and a leader but my baseline for judging him is based upon his last 12 games not his first four.  So, yes I think he'll be better but I don't think he makes a jump into most top 12 QBs. Yes, I know some of you have scoring systems where Wentz finished top 12 but for most of us he was a bottom third QB.

In my league he was QB 26 in total points and QB 28 in PPG (Matt Moore and Siemian both jumped above Wentz in PPG output).  I think QB 16 (total points) is a reasonable upside prediction for Wentz but QB 20 feels just as realistic.  On a PPG basis I think he'll fall a couple spots from his total points finish.

 

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: QB Carson Wentz, Colts

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