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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Dalvin Cook, Vikings

Faust

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SameSongNDance

Chris Thompson > Theo Riddick > Mike Toblert >> Leveon Bell

SameSongNDance

Hunt was on the field for 58% of the snaps and was utilized 22 times. Cook was on the field for 78% of the snaps and was utilized 27 times. How much clearer is Hunt's path to opportunity/use? Edi

Cowboysfan8

Or 3

The Frankman

The Frankman 3,373

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Dude is getting all spiritual on me I just want to know how hurt you are man... it's like Iron Chef and the female Japanese idol goes on to say about how after tasting the food she wants to go running in the stream of a forest or something.

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BigTex

BigTex 859

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16 hours ago, The Frankman said:

https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/1044680191811870720

 

Holy crap WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???

He’s just saying he’s not 100%. Sometimes even when the injury is nearly 100% as you’re trying to get healthy and decide if you’re going to play it’s that little voice that warns you not yet. It’s that feeling you get....sorry best way in can explain it. I’ve just been there before and know what he’s really saying.

Tex

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Faust

Faust 5,652

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Vikings are "optimistic" Dalvin Cook (hamstring, questionable) will play Thursday night against the Rams.

Cook appeared on track after getting in limited sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday. Schefter cautions the Vikings will still put Cook through the paces in pre-game warmups to make sure, but it looks like he will be active. Going up against a soft run defense and unlikely to be scripted out of the game because of his passing-game usage, Cook will be a fringe RB1 if he is active.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter 

Sep 27 - 9:05 AM

 

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Rhythmdoctor

Rhythmdoctor 1,463

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41 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

I laughed at that too and that makes me think this report is all baloney. I don't see how you can trust Cook this week.

I checked my resource and Rams are ranked 17th against RBs and 1st against QBs and WRs.  So, my gut tells me that 17 ranking is a result of their super stout pass defense, not a result of being 'soft' against the run.  These reporters need to DO THEIR JOB!!

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Rhythmdoctor

Rhythmdoctor 1,463

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1 minute ago, barracus79 said:

Start cook tonight, or go with breida (questionable /no practice Wednesday) as my rb2? 

Wrong forum but if it were me I'd start Cook.  One of those guys (Cook) was a 1st or 2nd round pick and is considered a STUD at the position, the other is not.  ASYS.

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The Frankman

The Frankman 3,373

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33 minutes ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Wrong forum but if it were me I'd start Cook.  One of those guys (Cook) was a 1st or 2nd round pick and is considered a STUD at the position, the other is not.  ASYS.

That reasoning makes no sense in this discussion. For instance I could say "One of these guys leads the league in rushing and will have a QB that loves checking down to RBs and TEs in a game they will surely be behind in (positive game script for Breida), the other is a guy who is playing on a tender hammy and missed a week."

 

For the record they are ranked similarly in weekly projections for Week 4. 

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Pigskin Fanatic

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On 9/21/2018 at 4:29 PM, Biabreakable said:

Tell him to pick up Roc Thomas or Mike Boone.

My cousin and I are debating who will play more with Cook out.

Boones running style is more similar to Murray, while Roc Thomas is more of a COP speed RB who is good in space.

Boone is more powerful, could be a feature RB and he can catch the ball. I am not sure which is the better receiving option between the two. I think overall Boone is a better RB.

Boone is questionable for this game with a groin injury, so maybe they won't use him as much as Thomas because of that. 

Anyhow if the rosters are deep enough and he has some dead weight I think either Boone or Thomas are worth a speculative add.

I was intrigued by this post not knowing who either of these guys are, so hoping you can share a bit more opinions about them. in that last mess of a game Boone notched 13 snaps (20%) while murray notched 38 snaps (58%). Murray did get 5/7 catches for 30 yards, but even CJ Ham the fullback got 5/6 for 47. obviously not a good game to gauge the running game, but Thomas didn't see the field (not sure if he was even active?)

So, did you and your cousin come to a conclusion that Thomas is an afterthought and Boone is the guy? Is Boone worth putting on my long term radar, or is he an emergency start for Minnesota (NFL wise, not Fantasy wise) only if both Cook and Murray are on the shelf?

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Interseptopus

Interseptopus 5,722

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19 minutes ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

I was intrigued by this post not knowing who either of these guys are, so hoping you can share a bit more opinions about them. in that last mess of a game Boone notched 13 snaps (20%) while murray notched 38 snaps (58%). Murray did get 5/7 catches for 30 yards, but even CJ Ham the fullback got 5/6 for 47. obviously not a good game to gauge the running game, but Thomas didn't see the field (not sure if he was even active?)

So, did you and your cousin come to a conclusion that Thomas is an afterthought and Boone is the guy? Is Boone worth putting on my long term radar, or is he an emergency start for Minnesota (NFL wise, not Fantasy wise) only if both Cook and Murray are on the shelf?

This is worth noting as Murray restructured his contract in March. I don't know those details. His original contract made him cut-able after 2018. I don't know if that has changed. My understanding is that he took a pay cut to stay in MIN and not be cut this last off season. I wonder if they voided 2019.

 

FTR I tend to gravitate toward Thomas more than Boone. 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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Biabreakable

Biabreakable 5,179

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45 minutes ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

I was intrigued by this post not knowing who either of these guys are, so hoping you can share a bit more opinions about them. in that last mess of a game Boone notched 13 snaps (20%) while murray notched 38 snaps (58%). Murray did get 5/7 catches for 30 yards, but even CJ Ham the fullback got 5/6 for 47. obviously not a good game to gauge the running game, but Thomas didn't see the field (not sure if he was even active?)

So, did you and your cousin come to a conclusion that Thomas is an afterthought and Boone is the guy? Is Boone worth putting on my long term radar, or is he an emergency start for Minnesota (NFL wise, not Fantasy wise) only if both Cook and Murray are on the shelf?

Good questions.

No we haven't been able to draw any conclusions. Last game for the Vikings was a disaster where they only had 6 rushing attempts the whole game. The Vikings really haven't gotten the running game going yet this season. Dalvin Cook did have a great run that resulted in a fumble as the defender hit the ball tackling him from behind. The running game has been pretty dead since that play from my perspective.

RIght now the Vikings have 139 passing attempts to 56 rushing attempts over 3 games.

The Vikings have been throwing to their RB. Cook had 12 targets over the first two games. CJ Ham has 8 targets now, Murray has 7 targets, Boone has one which he caught for 0 yards.

From what I am hearing there is some reason to think Cook may play tonight, but it is still a game time decision. If Cook does play, he might be limited, and he might be used mostly as a receiver in this match up. The Vikings may be playing without RIley Reif at left tackle forcing either Hill or rookie O;Neil to start in his place. Pat Elflein played a third of the snaps at center last week. He made some mistakes but hasn't had any set backs that I have heard about. So Elflein may be playing more, I am not sure if he plays at center or guard. It seems to me that Brett Jones might be a better option than Tom Ciomption, but I am not sure if there will be changes with the interior linemen or not if Reif cannot play.

The Rams have been playing very well so far this season. One thing they haven't done that well yet is rush the QB however. The coverage has been great for them, but they only have 4 sacks so far over 3 games. Statistically they are worse against the run than they are against the pass, which is likely just a product of a small sample size. Their defense is very good on the inside with Donald, Suh and Brockers, but they do not have the outside pass rush or LBers so maybe this is why their opponents have had some success running the ball against them.

I do see some reason for hope that the Vikings offense can get on track as the Rams are not that strong on the edges and the Vikings like to run outside.

In preseason both Boone and Thomas had some big plays and they played well enough that the Vikings kept both on the roster, not wanting to risk either player being picked up by another team if they tried to stash them on the practice squad. They were both inactive for the first two weeks, but both were active in the most recent game against the Bills. As you noted Thomas did not have any snaps on offense and Boone played slightly less than CJ Ham did, Murray had the most snaps.

Boone has shown enough promise prior to last week that I think he is worth having in deep dynasty leagues as a speculative add. He is a well rounded player who runs with enough power to break tackles. Myself and others have speculated that Boone could make Murray an easy cut next season, as Boone could take over his role in the offense. For now they are likely looking for better pass protection out of Boone before trusting him more. From the game last week the rotation was Murray, then Boone, then later on in the game they started using CJ Ham who is a FB converted from HB. So I think the coaches gave up on Boone and switched to Ham in the last game. I don't remember now, but Boone may have missed a pass protection assignment as part of the reason for the switch. Boone didn't get many opportunities, but had a decent run on his 3rd try (one reception for zero) but didn't any more chances after that.

The reason I think Boone is worth having is just in case Cook gets injured again, Boone will split with Murray and Ham in this case is what we have learned from the last game. I do think Boone is good enough to compete with Murray and possibly take over the back up spot to Cook as soon as next season.

Edited by Biabreakable
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Biabreakable

Biabreakable 5,179

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

This is worth noting as Murray restructured his contract in March. I don't know those details. His original contract made him cut-able after 2018. I don't know if that has changed. My understanding is that he took a pay cut to stay in MIN and not be cut this last off season. I wonder if they voided 2019.

 

FTR I tend to gravitate toward Thomas more than Boone. 

Murray took a pay cut to the veteran minimum before the season started, as if he didn't the Vikings would have cut him to save cap space, and they felt confident enough in Cooks recovery and the other RB they have. Boone Thomas and Ham.

Murray likes Zimmer and the Vikings obviously or he wouldn't have agreed to the pay cut. I am pretty sure Murray would have found a new team to play for if he didn't take the pay cut and the Vikings cut him. There have been multiple players this year who have agreed to play with the Vikings because they like the team, the coaches, the training facility and the Vikings changes to be a playoff team. Murray is just one example of that. There are several others, such as Iloka, Tom Johnson and someone else I am forgetting.

Kicker Dan Bailey another recent addition who had other options but chose the Vikings.

Why would you prefer Thomas over Boone?

Thomas had one very good game during preseason, but Boone played better than Thomas in the next two preseason games. The overall performance of Boone was more impressive than Thomas with what little I have seen of them both so far.

Thomas seems faster than Boone. That is the only way I have seen him be a better option. Speed is important, but breaking tackles is too.

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Rhythmdoctor

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56 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

That reasoning makes no sense in this discussion. For instance I could say "One of these guys leads the league in rushing and will have a QB that loves checking down to RBs and TEs in a game they will surely be behind in (positive game script for Breida), the other is a guy who is playing on a tender hammy and missed a week."

 

For the record they are ranked similarly in weekly projections for Week 4. 

Ok. It makes sense to me and my 25 years experience. I always start my studs and on a macro level it works. If my 2nd round RB is playing, I’m starting him. Breida also hyperextended his knee last week and splits carries with Alf Morris but go ahead and start Breida, it’s not my team. 

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Interseptopus

Interseptopus 5,722

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

Murray took a pay cut to the veteran minimum before the season started, as if he didn't the Vikings would have cut him to save cap space, and they felt confident enough in Cooks recovery and the other RB they have. Boone Thomas and Ham.

Murray likes Zimmer and the Vikings obviously or he wouldn't have agreed to the pay cut. I am pretty sure Murray would have found a new team to play for if he didn't take the pay cut and the Vikings cut him. There have been multiple players this year who have agreed to play with the Vikings because they like the team, the coaches, the training facility and the Vikings changes to be a playoff team. Murray is just one example of that. There are several others, such as Iloka, Tom Johnson and someone else I am forgetting.

Kicker Dan Bailey another recent addition who had other options but chose the Vikings.

Why would you prefer Thomas over Boone?

Thomas had one very good game during preseason, but Boone played better than Thomas in the next two preseason games. The overall performance of Boone was more impressive than Thomas with what little I have seen of them both so far.

Thomas seems faster than Boone. That is the only way I have seen him be a better option. Speed is important, but breaking tackles is too.

I'm a sucker for speed at RB (just as much as I am for height at WR). Thomas, to me, seems to be more advanced from a RB standpoint than Boone. Boone switched to RB in college and his stats just don't impress me much. As you said, though, he is more of a power back than speedster. It's apples to oranges. 

Thomas was a very highly regarded recruit going into college, and I feel like much of that cannot be coached. He needs to be able to make yardage, not just take what is given. I think if you combined the two you'd have the perfect back. 

I think ultimately Thomas' resume just impresses me more than Boone's. Seems like we see a lot guys like Boone come and go. Same with Thomas I'm sure, I just like the chances of his resume turning him into something more better than Boone's.   

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Interseptopus

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1 hour ago, The Frankman said:

That reasoning makes no sense in this discussion. For instance I could say "One of these guys leads the league in rushing and will have a QB that loves checking down to RBs and TEs in a game they will surely be behind in (positive game script for Breida), the other is a guy who is playing on a tender hammy and missed a week."

 

For the record they are ranked similarly in weekly projections for Week 4. 

In no universe do I bench an active Cook for Breida. Unless it's a golf league and I want lower points. Then yes, I do bench Cook for Breida

 

I've experimented with being cute like this in the last 20 years of my fantasy experience, and it's bit me in the ### far more than it's paid off. I start my studs. No regrats 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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Just Win Baby

Just Win Baby 2,632

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32 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

One thing they haven't done that well yet is rush the QB however.

I don't think that is true. PFF has their pass rush ranked as 6th best so far. While they only have 4 sacks, per PFF they have 50 pressures, which have resulted in 4 sacks, 8 QB hits, and 38 hurries. That is a lot of pressures in 3 games.

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Biabreakable

Biabreakable 5,179

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1 minute ago, Just Win Baby said:

I don't think that is true. PFF has their pass rush ranked as 6th best so far. While they only have 4 sacks, per PFF they have 50 pressures, which have resulted in 4 sacks, 8 QB hits, and 38 hurries. That is a lot of pressures in 3 games.

Thanks for going dark storm cloud on my hopeful silver lining. :P

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Pigskin Fanatic

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56 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I'm a sucker for speed at RB (just as much as I am for height at WR). Thomas, to me, seems to be more advanced from a RB standpoint than Boone. Boone switched to RB in college and his stats just don't impress me much. As you said, though, he is more of a power back than speedster. It's apples to oranges. 

Thomas was a very highly regarded recruit going into college, and I feel like much of that cannot be coached. He needs to be able to make yardage, not just take what is given. I think if you combined the two you'd have the perfect back. 

I think ultimately Thomas' resume just impresses me more than Boone's. Seems like we see a lot guys like Boone come and go. Same with Thomas I'm sure, I just like the chances of his resume turning him into something more better than Boone's.   

good insight, thx Dr. Dan. the bolded may be significant, feels like guys who did this in college don't seem to pan out very well in the NFL based on a very narrow history, most recent being Ty Montgomery.

1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

This is worth noting as Murray restructured his contract in March. I don't know those details. His original contract made him cut-able after 2018. I don't know if that has changed. My understanding is that he took a pay cut to stay in MIN and not be cut this last off season. I wonder if they voided 2019.

 

looks like they did void 2019 and added 600K to his bonus for 2018. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/latavius-murray-12463/

 

1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

In preseason both Boone and Thomas had some big plays and they played well enough that the Vikings kept both on the roster, not wanting to risk either player being picked up by another team if they tried to stash them on the practice squad. They were both inactive for the first two weeks, but both were active in the most recent game against the Bills. As you noted Thomas did not have any snaps on offense and Boone played slightly less than CJ Ham did, Murray had the most snaps.

Boone has shown enough promise prior to last week that I think he is worth having in deep dynasty leagues as a speculative add. He is a well rounded player who runs with enough power to break tackles. Myself and others have speculated that Boone could make Murray an easy cut next season, as Boone could take over his role in the offense. For now they are likely looking for better pass protection out of Boone before trusting him more. From the game last week the rotation was Murray, then Boone, then later on in the game they started using CJ Ham who is a FB converted from HB. So I think the coaches gave up on Boone and switched to Ham in the last game. I don't remember now, but Boone may have missed a pass protection assignment as part of the reason for the switch. Boone didn't get many opportunities, but had a decent run on his 3rd try (one reception for zero) but didn't any more chances after that.

The reason I think Boone is worth having is just in case Cook gets injured again, Boone will split with Murray and Ham in this case is what we have learned from the last game. I do think Boone is good enough to compete with Murray and possibly take over the back up spot to Cook as soon as next season.

good insight, thx Biabreakable.

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Biabreakable

Biabreakable 5,179

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

I'm a sucker for speed at RB (just as much as I am for height at WR). Thomas, to me, seems to be more advanced from a RB standpoint than Boone. Boone switched to RB in college and his stats just don't impress me much. As you said, though, he is more of a power back than speedster. It's apples to oranges. 

Thomas was a very highly regarded recruit going into college, and I feel like much of that cannot be coached. He needs to be able to make yardage, not just take what is given. I think if you combined the two you'd have the perfect back. 

I think ultimately Thomas' resume just impresses me more than Boone's. Seems like we see a lot guys like Boone come and go. Same with Thomas I'm sure, I just like the chances of his resume turning him into something more better than Boone's.   

Even though these guys are Vikings I haven't really looked at their college performance. I think just because I do want to be surprised a bit and just look at them as pros for evaluation.

But you have made me curious now.

Roc Thomas does have some good qualities as well. I think he is more of a space Rb but he could be very good. He did a great job on screen pass in preseason for example.

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Wrigley

Wrigley 3,453

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1 hour ago, Alluro said:

Abandon ship!! Abandon ship!!

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports Dalvin Cook (hamstring) is expected to be active for Thursday's game against the Rams.

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Wrigley

Wrigley 3,453

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13 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

"The team plans to watch him in warmups closely to ensure his hamstring responds appropriately, Rapoport reported. If he does indeed play, he will be on a pitch count against the Rams, Rapoport added."

He'll sit my bench another week.

This is where I am too

 

I've got Gio to fill in for this week

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Biabreakable

Biabreakable 5,179

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12 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

"The team plans to watch him in warmups closely to ensure his hamstring responds appropriately, Rapoport reported. If he does indeed play, he will be on a pitch count against the Rams, Rapoport added."

He'll sit my bench another week.

While this may be accurate it seems like something Zimmer would not want anyone outside of the team to know.

When Cook has played

Week 1 57 offensive snaps (80%) 16 rushing attempts 40 yards 7 targets 6 receptions 55 yards
Week 2 50 offensive snaps (68%) 10 rushing attempts 38 yards 5 targets 3 receptions 52 yards

If he is on a snap count as Rapoport says, that could mean 50% of the snaps, fewer rushing attempts yet similar targets in the passing game.

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Kenny Powers

Kenny Powers 278

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12 minutes ago, tkrull said:

Hold on a minute.  The Jets are at Jax.  I'm rolling with Cook if he's active, AJones if he's out.

Tough call. My options besides Cook are Crow, Ekeler, Murray (obvious no if cook plays). If the signs keep saying he's a go, im rolling with Cook. I dont believe the pitch count part bc minny probably needs to get him the ball to win.

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