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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Dalvin Cook, Vikings


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17 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

In regards to the Vikings not running many screen passes, that is true and it has been frustrating.

Keep in mind that Cook was injured and out for a long time. Murray is not the same level of dynamics as Cook is as a receiver. So that is part of the reason why the Vikings haven't been running many pass plays to the RB.

That has changed with Cook being healthy.

The Vikings offensive line is still not good. You can see the defense plays differently when Cook is in the game than when Murray is. The defense plays the pass when Murray is in there, but when Cook is in there they are more focused on stopping him. The best way to stop him is to get there before Cook can get started. So defenses do a lot of run blitzing and more difficult fronts to run against when Cook is in there.

Cousins was looking for Cook in the flat later on in the game but he was actually covered and so Cousins did something else, but they are using Cook as a receiver frequently.

Since returning from injury 

Lions 28 offensive snaps (57.1%) 10 rushing attempts 89 yards 4 targets 4 receptions 20 yards 

Bears 59 offensive snaps (88.1%) 9 rushing attempts 13 rushing yards 3 targets 3 receptions -2 yards 

Packers 41 offensive snaps (58.6%) 10 rushing attempts 29 rushing yards 3 targets 3 receptions 47 yards 1 TD

So when does he get more than a whopping 10 carries?

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Hunt was on the field for 58% of the snaps and was utilized 22 times. Cook was on the field for 78% of the snaps and was utilized 27 times. How much clearer is Hunt's path to opportunity/use? Edi

Or 3

1 minute ago, NeverEnough said:

So when does he get more than a whopping 10 carries?

The Vikings guards are really bad. Can't get any push up the middle.

Several of Cooks runs were schemed to get him to the edge, for example on was a jet sweep where Cook starts as lined up in the slot on the left then runs behind center and gets the hand of (short pass) to run to the right.

When they try to run the inside zone Cook was getting 3 yards and not much blocking. It is hard for the offense to stick with that, its not working.

I am not sure this will change at all this season. They still can't run block.

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57 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

In regards to the Vikings not running many screen passes, that is true and it has been frustrating.

Keep in mind that Cook was injured and out for a long time. Murray is not the same level of dynamics as Cook is as a receiver. So that is part of the reason why the Vikings haven't been running many pass plays to the RB.

That has changed with Cook being healthy.

The Vikings offensive line is still not good. You can see the defense plays differently when Cook is in the game than when Murray is. The defense plays the pass when Murray is in there, but when Cook is in there they are more focused on stopping him. The best way to stop him is to get there before Cook can get started. So defenses do a lot of run blitzing and more difficult fronts to run against when Cook is in there.

Cousins was looking for Cook in the flat later on in the game but he was actually covered and so Cousins did something else, but they are using Cook as a receiver frequently.

Since returning from injury 

Lions 28 offensive snaps (57.1%) 10 rushing attempts 89 yards 4 targets 4 receptions 20 yards 

Bears 59 offensive snaps (88.1%) 9 rushing attempts 13 rushing yards 3 targets 3 receptions -2 yards 

Packers 41 offensive snaps (58.6%) 10 rushing attempts 29 rushing yards 3 targets 3 receptions 47 yards 1 TD

Great stuff.  Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

Keep in mind that that was a rare screen pass Cousins made this year despite making considerable of them during his years at Redskins.  And Vikings famously used screen pass as one of their offensive staples last year.  It really baffled me on their new OC DeFilippo not utilizing it often this year when he knew it to be one of their team's and newly signed QB's strengths. 

Cook when healthy averaged over 4 receptions a game. If it's not a screen, he lines up 5-6 plays in the slot. Again, the main focus of Cousins and the Vikings is to pass to Diggs/Thielen; it's frustrating because they only seem to remember the running game when they have Murray in the game. This is coming from a Murray owner two years running; even I know we aren't going to see Cook be a 20-carry back. However, it doesn't mean he can't be a 15-18 carry back with 4-6 receptions per game. As Peter King said in today's Football Morning in America piece "Dalvin Cook, if he can stay healthy, can be the same kind of damaging force as Alvin Kamara in a football game." The man is electric in space and isn't as reliant on needing good blocking as Murray is, if you can get more plays with Pat Efliein blocking ahead like that Cook is going to have big games...

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2 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

The Vikings guards are really bad. Can't get any push up the middle.

Several of Cooks runs were schemed to get him to the edge, for example on was a jet sweep where Cook starts as lined up in the slot on the left then runs behind center and gets the hand of (short pass) to run to the right.

When they try to run the inside zone Cook was getting 3 yards and not much blocking. It is hard for the offense to stick with that, its not working.

I am not sure this will change at all this season. They still can't run block.

I certainly agreed with the bold text... which is why I kept advocating for more screen pass.  A good (or great) offensive play-caller will find or scheme to move down the field.  Look at Lions and Stafford in past years on playing with horrendous OL yet they found numerous way to move offensively albeit horizontally (ironically, they are having a huge problem offensively despite having top-ten OL this year).   Sadly, Vikings will not go deep in the playoff if their current OL continues horrendous blocking... Getting nasty in road-grading is not something that can be picked up quickly. 

1 hour ago, The Frankman said:

Cook when healthy averaged over 4 receptions a game. If it's not a screen, he lines up 5-6 plays in the slot. Again, the main focus of Cousins and the Vikings is to pass to Diggs/Thielen; it's frustrating because they only seem to remember the running game when they have Murray in the game. This is coming from a Murray owner two years running; even I know we aren't going to see Cook be a 20-carry back. However, it doesn't mean he can't be a 15-18 carry back with 4-6 receptions per game. As Peter King said in today's Football Morning in America piece "Dalvin Cook, if he can stay healthy, can be the same kind of damaging force as Alvin Kamara in a football game." The man is electric in space and isn't as reliant on needing good blocking as Murray is, if you can get more plays with Pat Efliein blocking ahead like that Cook is going to have big games...

Agreed... The differences are offensive play-calling and Brees' savviness and poise in the pocket when thing falls apart.   I do understand this year is first for Vikings, DeFlippino, and Cousins playing together but this shouldn't excuse them for inability to use their RBs / TEs often and frequent reliance on Diggs and Thielen.  In some way, this is very telling on McVay's offensive brilliant with Cousins during their days at Redskins. 

 

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4 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

I do understand this year is first for Vikings, DeFlippino, and Cousins playing together but this shouldn't excuse them for inability to use their RBs / TEs often and frequent reliance on Diggs and Thielen.  In some way, this is very telling on McVay's offensive brilliant with Cousins during their days at Redskins. 

 

This is a great perspective 

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9 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

I certainly agreed with the bold text... which is why I kept advocating for more screen pass.  A good (or great) offensive play-caller will find or scheme to move down the field.  Look at Lions and Stafford in past years on playing with horrendous OL yet they found numerous way to move offensively albeit horizontally (ironically, they are having a huge problem offensively despite having top-ten OL this year).   Sadly, Vikings will not go deep in the playoff if their current OL continues horrendous blocking... Getting nasty in road-grading is not something that can be picked up quickly. 

I agree that the play calling by Flip needs improvement. He is still learning.

I was just pointing out that Murray isn't Cook as a receiver as part of what has influenced his decisions and play calling.

The offensive line issues are tied to managment and coaching philosophy. They just do not seem to believe that offensive linemen can be good or be worth taking very high in the draft.

I think Brian O'Neil has played better than anyone expected. He has become a strength of the offensive line in my view. He is better at pass blocking than run blocking though.

Remmers, Compton and Ididora all need to be replaced.

Elflien has been beaten a lot too. He is a young player though and has some positive traits as well. He may actually be better at run blocking than pass protection, or I hope so. He struggles with protection. Hicks is a great player, but Elflien was beaten by him more times than I think a starter should be. The whole group needs improvement if Zimmer actually does want to run the ball (I do believe he does).

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I have Cook in two FFPC leagues and those teams are toast in no small part to taking him over CMC :ptts:

However, I also have him in a ten team standard and unless I feel like I'm a huge underdog, no way this guy gets in my lineup. You have to depend on him breaking long gainers and that's not gonna cut it come playoff time. Love the talent. When he gets his jets on he riminds me of CJ2K but 10 carries with that crap line and a baffling misuse in the passing game have me in no hurry to start him. He's already cost me the division lead with that negative performance against the Bears (lost by 2 points).

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Vikings are in the thick of a WC berth (currently 5th seed.) Stretch run opponents & their rank for FFPA to RBs:

@NE 18th

@SEA 15th

MIA 5th

@DET 8th

Except for the Rams game when he was injured, he has at least 3 receptions in every game he’s played in 2018.

In his Week 9 70 yard run versus the Lions (e.g., post injury), he reached 22.07 mph - the third fastest ball carrier in the NFL all year.

What he cost to draft or perceived FF losses you want to pin on him should have zero bearing on future lineup decisions. Oh, I get human nature - it’s just that I also understand sunk cost.

Will probably start him every week I have a game. My other options are Chubb & Lindsay so he’ll likely be Flexed. Not sure when Kerryon will be back but it’s Cook all day over Gus the Bus.

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Dalvin Cook rolled to 84 yards on nine carries while supplying eight catches for 22 yards on 10 targets Sunday in the Vikings’ Week 13 loss to New England.

Cook made things happen whenever he touched the ball, particularly in the first half when he picked up 73 yards on 10 touches. Unfortunately, he wasn't called on much with the Vikings playing from behind in the second half. Cook's eight catches represented a new career-high, though he averaged a lethargic 2.6 yards per reception with a long of only 10 yards. On the bright side, Cook out-touched backfield-mate Latavius Murray by a convincing 17-6 margin. Cook can be comfortably employed as an RB2 against the Seahawks in Week 14.

I... dunno what more he needed to do to get carries. They could've still ran the ball as they were only down 10. I also think the next time he gets 10 targets he'll get a lot more than 22 yards.

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5 hours ago, The Frankman said:

I... dunno what more he needed to do to get carries. They could've still ran the ball as they were only down 10. I also think the next time he gets 10 targets he'll get a lot more than 22 yards.

I'm done with this guy. Not his fault. But you can't trust the play calling. How he didn't have 150-200 yards is beyond me.

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7 hours ago, The Frankman said:

I... dunno what more he needed to do to get carries. They could've still ran the ball as they were only down 10. I also think the next time he gets 10 targets he'll get a lot more than 22 yards.

Yeah, Pats fan here. How did he not have 20-25 touches? Crazy. Seems like his worst touch went for 5 yards. Thought he looked great and showed good burst. Finally recovered from injury.

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24 minutes ago, tombonneau said:

Yeah, Pats fan here. How did he not have 20-25 touches? Crazy. Seems like his worst touch went for 5 yards. Thought he looked great and showed good burst. Finally recovered from injury.

I will never understand a lot of coaching decisions in the NFL.  Cook should have had double the touches in a close game.  Not sure why the Vikings seemed to panic and abandoned Cook's running game.

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I will say it's funny the reactions reporters have observed from this. They asked Zimmer after the game if he thought Cook had enough carries and he very tersely said "No". Days later he gave some BS "I stand by our OC and believe in him" statement. Cook himself was like "Nah I'm not surprised I just gotta do better in my carries" like it was HIS fault!

 

I'm thinking the coaching staff had a meeting about Cook's usage and the offensive gameplan this week.

 

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Dalvin Cook rushed 13 times for 55 yards and caught 5-of-7 targets for 28 yards and one touchdown in the Vikings' 21-7, Week 14 loss to the Seahawks.

Cook was the Vikings' best offensive player and probably should have touched the ball more, especially on a couple 3rd-and-1 calls by OC John DeFilippo where he rolled Kirk Cousins out to his right 12-15 yards behind the line to gain, which resulted in two incompletions and subsequent punts. Cook was earning tough yards and tied for the team lead in targets. His last-minute six-yard touchdown catch was as garbage-timey as they come with the Vikings down 21-0. Cook will be an RB2 next week at home against the Dolphins.

 

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12 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Not sure why the Vikings do not give Cook the ball more.  Cousins struggles with pressure and a running game and quick passes would certainly help.  It is not like Cook is not producing. 

The Monday night crew said simply, DeFilippo doesn't like to run the ball. I don't know if that's true or not, but the way he's calling games, he'll be lucky to make it to the end of the season. I find it hilarious that this guy is supposed to be on a short list to be a head coach. 

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1 hour ago, Cjw_55106 said:

The Monday night crew said simply, DeFilippo doesn't like to run the ball. I don't know if that's true or not, but the way he's calling games, he'll be lucky to make it to the end of the season. I find it hilarious that this guy is supposed to be on a short list to be a head coach. 

DeFilippo is an idiot.  His play calling is awful. 

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47 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

DeFilippo is an idiot.  His play calling is awful. 

He is.  I had Cook last night and my opponent had Lockett.  If it weren't for those GTP in the last 2 minutes, I would have lost. It appeared to me Cook was open allot inthe middle (similar to the scoring play) and Cousins looked deeper.  

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

DeFilippo is an idiot.  His play calling is awful. 

This all day. It was maddening.

Running Murray straight into a stacked box on 4th and 1.
Rolling out for a deep pass to no-one on 4th and 1.
Passing on 1st and goal from the 1 with no one in the box.

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35 minutes ago, notoriousbill said:

He is.  I had Cook last night and my opponent had Lockett.  If it weren't for those GTP in the last 2 minutes, I would have lost. It appeared to me Cook was open allot inthe middle (similar to the scoring play) and Cousins looked deeper.  

Cousins is another discussion but he doesn't do well under pressure or maybe it is the amount of pressure he had last night.  I thought he would have done better last night.   He has done pretty well this season and has talent at WR, TE, and RB

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That has to be a positive for Cook's outlook, regardless of the in-house options for OC.

EDIT:
 

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Vikings promoted QBs coach Kevin Stefanski to offensive coordinator.

Stefanski will replace John DeFilippo, who was fired on Tuesday. Giants coach Pat Shurmur tried to take Stefanski with him when he left last offseason, but the Vikings blocked the interview request. There was some thought Minnesota should have just promoted Stefanski after Shurmur left, and now he will get his shot. Considering coach Mike Zimmer recent comments, Stefanski will likely lean on the running game a bit more than DeFilippo did this season.

 

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Cook is a difference-maker. You have to give those kinds of guys touches.

The mini-RBBC with Murray wasn't as bad as the Lewis/Henry thing with the Titans, but it's not far off.

Granted, Dalvin has been hurt for much of the season, but he looks healthy now. Just like in Tennessee, it's time for the horse#### to end.

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Would love to see him finish the year strong heading towards next season.  I've got him in 1 league (that missed the playoffs).  Just looking for his 2019 outlook at this point.

Vikings need to improve the line, hopefully the change to OC helps all parties.

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Dalvin Cook rushed 19 times for 136 yards and two touchdowns in the Vikings' Week 15 win over the Dolphins, adding another 27 yards on one catch.

Sometimes the narrative turns out to be right. Expected to get the ball more under the new offensive coordinator, Cook dominated from the first snap, gaining 59 total yards on the opening touchdown drive. He did even better on the next series, showing off his speed to beat a defender to the corner and finding the end zone from 13 yards out. Despite ceding seven carries and a touchdown to Latavius Murray in the first half, Cook headed into the break with 109 total yards. With the rest of the offense struggling, Cook did not do as much in the third quarter, and he dropped what could have been a nice gain on third down. He made up for it in the fourth quarter. Following a turnover on downs, Cook spun out of a tackle in the hole, beat the defense to the sideline, and waltzed in for his second TD. With a new emphasis on the run and the Lions up next, Cook could finish the season on a high note.

With a favorable matchup and new OC featuring more runs, Cook was absolutely Kamara-lite in this game.Even in a blowout,  he had 16+ carries for the first time in over a year.

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4 hours ago, The Frankman said:

With a favorable matchup and new OC featuring more runs, Cook was absolutely Kamara-lite in this game.Even in a blowout,  he had 16+ carries for the first time in over a year.

Just like with the Titans, it's amazing what a good RB can do when he's given touches.

It's really hard to understand sometimes. 

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1 hour ago, Football Jones said:

Just like with the Titans, it's amazing what a good RB can do when he's given touches.

It's really hard to understand sometimes. 

Tell me about it especially on DeFilippo's decision to deviate the overall Vikings' strength with play-action and went with heavy reliance on Cousins' QB with Thielen and Diggs. 

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I won't weigh in on the validity of this, but I keep hearing on NFL radio the notion that OC's who are good at passing offenses tend to land HC jobs. That within the context of DeFillipo being near the top of several teams looking for a HC next year. if we are to believe Defillipo went pass heavy on his own accord despite being asked to develop the run game as has been reported, despite the team having given the QB so much money, then one could assume DF was really just interviewing for his next gig this entire year.

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Monster game, shows the talent that makes you want to take him in round 1.  After 2 years of injuries and an up and down offense--I don't know if I've got the stomach to take him round 1 of re-draft leagues.  Will be interested to see where he's falling next year.  Late 2nd/3rd round, and I'm in love.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Kubiak’s Past Success Could Help Boost Vikings Ground Game

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It wouldn’t be surprising at all to assign Kubiak as the team’s run-game coordinator, whether by title or responsibility. That was essentially the role that former offensive line coach Tony Sparano had with the Vikings in 2017 under offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur, and Zimmer praised the influence that Sparano had on the organization before his unexpected death just days before the start of the team’s 2018 training camp.

The article goes on emphasizing how often Kubiak offenses have been very run heavy, which is what ZImmer wants.

Dalvin Cook hasn't been able to stay healthy so far in his career but if he can in 2019 he is likely to get the ball a lot.

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they'll find some nondescript guy who'll carry a ton of times for 1400-1500 yards like every single Kubiak RB over the years. Cook isn't durable and hasn't shown he can be a bellcow RB at the pro level. the most carries he's had in a season was his final year at Fl State, 288 carries. 

has he gotten half of that in any season since turning pro??

 

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1 hour ago, Jello_Biafra said:

Surprised they haven't signed someone. Who else is on the roster?

I’m guessing the Vikings will draft someone rendering that RB irrelevant except for those who want a handcuff for Cook. Hoping it’s no RB I care about.

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On 3/17/2019 at 8:58 PM, Jello_Biafra said:

Surprised they haven't signed someone. Who else is on the roster?

The Vikings do not have any cap space to work with right now and they are trying to find money to give to Adam Theiolen as well.

They can't afford to sign a free agent for anything. They have Abdullah, Boone and Roc Thomas from last year. I don't think any of them are really worth having even with Cooks injury history the last 2 years. I am expecting a rookie pick to possibly supplant them as the main back up RB.

I saw a little of Boone and Thomas last year. They both have a long way to go and not sure they are good enough for more than the scout team.

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36 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I’m guessing the Vikings will draft someone rendering that RB irrelevant except for those who want a handcuff for Cook. Hoping it’s no RB I care about.

I dont know... Cook is in line for a big season but he has had 2 seasons of injury. If he gets hurt again and whoever they draft looks good, that could be it. I dont think that will happen but it certainly is possible 

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21 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Any chance MIN goes for a rb maybe round 3, 4?

The Vikings have a lot of needs so I don't think its likely they draft RB that high.

I will likely be dissapointed but I really think the Vikigs should select two offensive linemen in the first 3 rounds. They also need a defensive tackle. They also need a 3rd WR. 

If they would just cut Kyle Rudolph some of this could change, but they won't. If they did TE would be a high priority and it should be because Rudolph sucks, but they will draft a TE at some point this year, I do think there are a lot of good ones, so maybe someone good can be had later in the draft.

So I would say RB is more likely than TE but less likely than offensive line, defensive tackle and WR.

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On 3/17/2019 at 11:05 PM, Dr. Dan said:

Any chance MIN goes for a rb maybe round 3, 4?

I wouldn’t think so. It’s not really a need that would be a wasted pick but I could see them drafting a backup later in the draft.

Tex

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  • 1 month later...
2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

No discussion of the Mattison pick?  3rd round draft capital and talented player competition. 

Any impact on Cooks value? 

I think the Vikings will probably run some form of committee here... 

I think this negatively effects Cook as well.  

I think there should be talk about this similar to D. Harris drafted by New England. 

For Cook I think he still gets majority of carries and workload, but may try to limit his touches with injury history.

For Michel I think NE loved Harris' do it all skills and will be primary backup (until playoffs when J. White takes over).

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