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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (8 Viewers)

I am in west palm on vaca, i got to hotel room the tv just happens to have on hil and ben. It was easy to see who was real and who was deflecting.

 
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One thing this board should know and HEAR. I am 45 and voted for every president that took office on the winning side since I was 18. This is not something to be proud of, I just voted for who I thought was best for the time. I have come to realize that all those votes didnt matter. Bernie going without superpaks matters.

 
Joe Scarborough making a convincing argument this morning about why Bernie should appeal to conservatives. :shrug:
I just want him to appeal to common sense.
Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common.What's your beef?
That people dont have common sense.
OK gotcha. Anything you think he should be doing differently?
Yes, when hillary talks about her foreign policy experience, he should say she is great at it and will appoint her like obama did.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I love the guy and a lot of his ideas but I am terrified of how much he'll hit me in taxes. Seems a bit insane.
He's a good dude, and I'll be happy to support him if he's the nominee, but his plans don't pencil out. Virtually all of the analysis from credible sources suggest that the same ideas that have so many eager to support him aren't practical and won't happen.

I'm in favor of hiking my own tax brackets and the tax brackets of those earning far more; it makes no sense that the hightest top bracket (39%) hits in the mid-$400s. Why isn't there a 45% bracket starting at $1M, and a 50% bracket at $5M, and 60% at $20M?

But even with a much more progressive tax system, it wouldn't pay for all the promises Bernie is making. If we're going to point out that Tea Party Republicans aren't serious with their tax cuts and flat tax proposals, we have to be willing to say the same thing when folks on our side promise plans that don't make economic sense.
$2.5 of $5M should be forked over to the gov't? I can understand when you start aiming at the $100M types but you really want to penalize the ones who likely worked the hardest to get into the millionaire's club.

I make $20M but keep $8M? TG, let me ask you a question, no mustard on it and I want you to not answer with emotions.

Think about what you present. If I have to give over half my money to the government for being an intelligent hard worker and business builder creating jobs and employing people most likely, don't you think the people who are forking over all this money are going to want a say in how it is spent? People already have emotions about their taxes and 25-30% of it going to Uncle Sam. I would think the buying of politicians would be even more rampant especially on the local level and trying to skirt the federal government.

We could talk about a 50% bracket perhaps for the top 3-5% but many of them hide their money. $20M is a business owner most likely. They are not paying people millions as tax accountants that I know anyways.

Tommy Robin Hood Gunz Blazin' to the rescue!
Funny....there seems to be something wrong with your math, or your understanding of how higher rates phase in. 5 million and 1 would pay a whole dime more than 4,999,999. Hitting a higher bracket doesn't increase the taxes on the first taxable dollar, only on the last and going upward.

 
Clinton +5 v. Trump

Sanders +10 v. Trump

Clinton Even v. Cruz

Sanders +4 v. Cruz

Clinton -7 v. Rubio

Sanders Even v. Rubio

Clinton -17 unfavorable

Sanders +11 favorable

 
One thing this board should know and HEAR. I am 45 and voted for every president that took office on the winning side since I was 18. This is not something to be proud of, I just voted for who I thought was best for the time. I have come to realize that all those votes didnt matter. Bernie going without superpaks matters.
So you're Ohio.

 
you don't really understand how tax brackets work.
im going to be honest and say I have zero clue how tax brackets work. Anyway to give me the idiots guide.
For simplicity imagine there are two tax brackets:

Up to $100K = 10%

Over $100K = 20%.

A person earning $100K pays $10K in taxes.

A person earning $110K pays $12K in taxes, because he's only taxed 20% on $10K of his income.

MoP seemed to be assuming that the second guy would have to pay $22K in taxes.

 
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What blows me away is that after all these years of complaining about the lack of viable third party candidates (Bernie is an independent after all), the corrosive influence of money and special interests, the negative ads, yadda yadda yadda.

Now here comes this guy that turns it all on its head and he's more than just competitive, he has a chance to actually win this thing. If those numbers hold there's no doubt in my mind that he overtakes her. Most of the country is just tuning in and if there's one thing we know it's the more people learn about Bernie, the more they like him.

If he's done nothing else and goes no farther he's reinvigorated my participation in politics and improved my opinion of my fellow man. I didn't know if it was possible to get through all the old hippie socialist/just a dreamer bs rhetoric, but he's doing it.

Now I just have to give him more money, make more calls, drive to Nevada, whatever. But it will be with a smile on my face.
Does he bum you out that he's chosen to run as a democrat?

 
What blows me away is that after all these years of complaining about the lack of viable third party candidates (Bernie is an independent after all), the corrosive influence of money and special interests, the negative ads, yadda yadda yadda.

Now here comes this guy that turns it all on its head and he's more than just competitive, he has a chance to actually win this thing. If those numbers hold there's no doubt in my mind that he overtakes her. Most of the country is just tuning in and if there's one thing we know it's the more people learn about Bernie, the more they like him.

If he's done nothing else and goes no farther he's reinvigorated my participation in politics and improved my opinion of my fellow man. I didn't know if it was possible to get through all the old hippie socialist/just a dreamer bs rhetoric, but he's doing it.

Now I just have to give him more money, make more calls, drive to Nevada, whatever. But it will be with a smile on my face.
I don't think he's quite going to get over the finish line, but hopefully he paves the way for a better way to do politics in the future. :thumbup:

 
What's particularly interesting, though, is what New Hampshirites want to know more about for each of the candidates. Google has a page dedicated to the debate, on which they list the five trending questions for both Sanders and Hillary Clinton in the state.

These are the top five questions for each:

Clinton

1. How old is Hillary Clinton?

2. Who can beat Hillary?

3. Where is Hillary Clinton today?

4. Will Hillary win?

5. How much is Hillary Clinton worth?

Clinton is 68 years old, she's worth a lot of money, and today she was in New Hampshire. The other two questions are about if she can win and, if not, to whom she could lose.

Consider those questions in light of the questions people had about Bernie Sanders.

Sanders

1. Where will Bernie Sanders be speaking?

2. Why Bernie Sanders?

3. Who would be Bernie Sanders' VP?

4. How to donate to Bernie Sanders

5. Where can I see Bernie Sanders in NH?

The first and fifth questions, like the question about where Clinton is, are for people to go hear from the candidate. "Why Bernie Sanders" is a question about why his candidacy should be considered.

But none of that matters once you get to No. 4. The fourth-most-Googled question about Bernie Sanders is how can I give him money.
I saw this last night at 2am. If Bernie pulls off the +30% win in NH, it will be very interesting to see if that South Carolina firewall holds.

 
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
:lmao:

 
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
:lmao:
:goodposting:

 
Better sit down for this one.

New Quinnipiac national poll out this morning:

Clinton 44

Sanders 42

Mountains of salt needed - the poll asks "Democrats and Democrat Leaners" But still, a crazy tightening in a national poll.
Remarkable accomplishment for Bernie.

Not sure that those numbers are legit because I don't know what they define as Democrat Leaners. Many states coming up after New Hampshire aren't open primaries so you have to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary. Not sure which ones those are...but I am pretty sure the bulk of them are like that where NH is more the exception to the rule.

My understanding based on CNN or MSNBC reporting last night (I was switching back and forth) is that Hillary is doing better with registered Dems but Bernie is crushing it with "independents." Not sure if that was a national observation or just specific to NH though as I was doing other stuff at the time the TV was on.

 
SIDA! said:
Sinn Fein said:
Better sit down for this one.

New Quinnipiac national poll out this morning:

Clinton 44

Sanders 42

Mountains of salt needed - the poll asks "Democrats and Democrat Leaners" But still, a crazy tightening in a national poll.
Remarkable accomplishment for Bernie.

Not sure that those numbers are legit because I don't know what they define as Democrat Leaners. Many states coming up after New Hampshire aren't open primaries so you have to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary. Not sure which ones those are...but I am pretty sure the bulk of them are like that where NH is more the exception to the rule.

My understanding based on CNN or MSNBC reporting last night (I was switching back and forth) is that Hillary is doing better with registered Dems but Bernie is crushing it with "independents." Not sure if that was a national observation or just specific to NH though as I was doing other stuff at the time the TV was on.
Half of 'independents' are pissed off Democrats.

 
Both of my parents are pretty religious, both of them have been lifelong republicans. Last night's debate was the first time either of them had heard Bernie speak (other than a few sound bites on the news). They came away VERY impressed, and this morning, they told me that they would be switching party affiliations so they could caucus for him in March. :thumbup:

 
SIDA! said:
Sinn Fein said:
Better sit down for this one.

New Quinnipiac national poll out this morning:

Clinton 44

Sanders 42

Mountains of salt needed - the poll asks "Democrats and Democrat Leaners" But still, a crazy tightening in a national poll.
Remarkable accomplishment for Bernie.

Not sure that those numbers are legit because I don't know what they define as Democrat Leaners. Many states coming up after New Hampshire aren't open primaries so you have to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary. Not sure which ones those are...but I am pretty sure the bulk of them are like that where NH is more the exception to the rule.

My understanding based on CNN or MSNBC reporting last night (I was switching back and forth) is that Hillary is doing better with registered Dems but Bernie is crushing it with "independents." Not sure if that was a national observation or just specific to NH though as I was doing other stuff at the time the TV was on.
Half of 'independents' are pissed off Democrats.
First of all yes that poll is HUGE. That is a 29 point drop by Hillary in a month.

Secondly just watching the debate I thought Bernie's best line was actually when he emphasized that he is the longest serving INDEPENDENT in Congressional history.

Hillary: yes but DemocractDemocratDemocrat and oh by the way look at all the endorsements (usual suspects) I have lined up behind me.

Bernie: yeah I don't want to be part of that club and I'm not. That's the point.

Btw GOP and Democratic party membership is near historic lows IIRC, per a recent report. So where does all this party allegiance get one in today's political market?

 
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SIDA! said:
Sinn Fein said:
Better sit down for this one.

New Quinnipiac national poll out this morning:

Clinton 44

Sanders 42

Mountains of salt needed - the poll asks "Democrats and Democrat Leaners" But still, a crazy tightening in a national poll.
Remarkable accomplishment for Bernie.

Not sure that those numbers are legit because I don't know what they define as Democrat Leaners. Many states coming up after New Hampshire aren't open primaries so you have to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary. Not sure which ones those are...but I am pretty sure the bulk of them are like that where NH is more the exception to the rule.

My understanding based on CNN or MSNBC reporting last night (I was switching back and forth) is that Hillary is doing better with registered Dems but Bernie is crushing it with "independents." Not sure if that was a national observation or just specific to NH though as I was doing other stuff at the time the TV was on.
Half of 'independents' are pissed off Democrats.
First of all yes that poll is HUGE. That is a 29 point drop by Hillary in a month.

Secondly just watching the debate I thought Bernie's best line was actually when he emphasized that he is the longest serving INDEPENDENT in Congressional history.

Hillary: yes but DemocractDemocratDemocrat and oh by the way look at all the endorsements (usual suspects) I have lined up behind me.

Bernie: yeah I don't want to be part of that club and I'm not. That's the point.

Btw GOP and Democratic party membership is near historic lows IIRC, per a recent report. So where does all this party allegiance get one in today's political market?
I saw a chart the other day that had stuff like:

  • money raised (pretty close in Q4 and Jan - Hillary has 60% donations from people maxed out at $2700 and donating to her SuperPAC, top 29 donors have contributed $20M, Bernie had 3.25M contributions in January - two-thirds of them were less than $30.
  • delegates won - including the 23-21 advantage from Iowa, HIllary is ahead 385-29 before the primaries start. HELLO Super Delegates.
  • endorsements - 465 to 2
#FeelTheBern

 
MSNBC was so in the bag for Hillary last night it was painful. Hopefully he gets a fairer shake during the next debates.
The media clearly has an oversized voice in the process and it's even more impactful than money IMHO.

Look at at what Trump did with spending very little money just by getting media coverage....(his efforts to implode himself are starting to take root)

 
MSNBC was so in the bag for Hillary last night it was painful. Hopefully he gets a fairer shake during the next debates.
That's the other amazing aspect to this contest - that it has exposed how biased CNN, MSNBC and the NYT are in their support for Clinton. Just flat out ignore Bernie until they're forced to report on him.
Every election I can't believe it's still a thing.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
timschochet said:
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
:lmao:
One Republican strategist floats this 2-3 state BS and Tim runs with it. OK, name the 2 or 3. You previously said Vermont, Massachusetts and California (though that one's up for grabs).

Here is the list of 19 states that have gone for the Democratic candidate for at least the last 6 consecutive elections.

D since 92: California; Connecticut; Delaware; Illinois; Maine; Maryland; Michigan; New Jersey; Pennsylvania; Rhode Island; Vermont

D since 88: Hawaii; Massachusetts; New York; Oregon; Washington; Wisconsin

D since 76: Minnesota

D since 64: DC

You're going to tell me any one of these states is going to vote for Cruz or Rubio (let alone Trump)?

 
MSNBC was so in the bag for Hillary last night it was painful. Hopefully he gets a fairer shake during the next debates.
That's the other amazing aspect to this contest - that it has exposed how biased CNN, MSNBC and the NYT are in their support for Clinton. Just flat out ignore Bernie until they're forced to report on him.
Yeah they all love Hillary. That's why all summer and half the fall were wall to wall email crap and questions about Hillary's campaign troubles. Man some of you guys have short memories.

 
MSNBC was so in the bag for Hillary last night it was painful. Hopefully he gets a fairer shake during the next debates.
That's the other amazing aspect to this contest - that it has exposed how biased CNN, MSNBC and the NYT are in their support for Clinton. Just flat out ignore Bernie until they're forced to report on him.
Yeah they all love Hillary. That's why all summer and half the fall were wall to wall email crap and questions about Hillary's campaign troubles.Man some of you guys have short memories.
Wall to wall? :lmao:

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
timschochet said:
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
:lmao:
One Republican strategist floats this 2-3 state BS and Tim runs with it. OK, name the 2 or 3. You previously said Vermont, Massachusetts and California (though that one's up for grabs).

Here is the list of 19 states that have gone for the Democratic candidate for at least the last 6 consecutive elections.

D since 92: California; Connecticut; Delaware; Illinois; Maine; Maryland; Michigan; New Jersey; Pennsylvania; Rhode Island; Vermont

D since 88: Hawaii; Massachusetts; New York; Oregon; Washington; Wisconsin

D since 76: Minnesota

D since 64: DC

You're going to tell me any one of these states is going to vote for Cruz or Rubio (let alone Trump)?
Yes. And I didn't just run with one guy. I could link you lots of people if you want. In fact it's hard for me to find any any known analyst on either side who doesn't think Bernie gets trounced- there are a few, but I suspect they're simply looking for a good splash or are highly leftist.

Of course I could be wrong, and if he wins the nomination I hope I am. But I hope more we never have to find out.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
timschochet said:
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
:lmao:
One Republican strategist floats this 2-3 state BS and Tim runs with it. OK, name the 2 or 3. You previously said Vermont, Massachusetts and California (though that one's up for grabs).

Here is the list of 19 states that have gone for the Democratic candidate for at least the last 6 consecutive elections.

D since 92: California; Connecticut; Delaware; Illinois; Maine; Maryland; Michigan; New Jersey; Pennsylvania; Rhode Island; Vermont

D since 88: Hawaii; Massachusetts; New York; Oregon; Washington; Wisconsin

D since 76: Minnesota

D since 64: DC

You're going to tell me any one of these states is going to vote for Cruz or Rubio (let alone Trump)?
Yes.And I didn't just run with one guy. I could link you lots of people if you want. In fact it's hard for me to find any any known analyst on either side who doesn't think Bernie gets trounced- there are a few, but I suspect they're simply looking for a good splash or are highly leftist.

Of course I could be wrong, and if he wins the nomination I hope I am. But I hope more we never have to find out.
Nothing personal, but you're wrong on most issues. Not surprising that you and Gunz are birds of the same feather.

 
:oldunsure:

Another issue has popped up for Bernie - apparently Michigan is on Spring Break the day of their primary. Not sure what percentage of kids head out of state, but given that Bernie draws a lot of support from college-age students, it could have an impact....

 
:oldunsure:

Another issue has popped up for Bernie - apparently Michigan is on Spring Break the day of their primary. Not sure what percentage of kids head out of state, but given that Bernie draws a lot of support from college-age students, it could have an impact....
Shark.

 
timschochet said:
As for Bernie: just before I left, he said, "the business model of Wall Street is fraud." He's said this before:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/30/bernie-sander-the-business-model-of-wall-street-is-fraud-video/

This is red meat for the extreme progressives out there and those who want to tear down our economic system. But for conservatives, independents, moderate and centrist Democrats, and the vast majority of Americans, it ain't gonna fly. This sort of rhetoric will be part of the reason, IMO, that if Bernie does indeed win the nomination he will only succeed in winning 2-3 states and will be wiped out in the electoral college.
Wrong as always. Poll after poll shows that Amerocans think the system is rigged. They believe and they are right that fraud was a big part of the meltdown. Wall Street is no longer a place to go get financing for a strong.company. it's Vegas without the shows.
There are plenty of idiots in America, but even so I highly doubt that most would agree that the business model of Wall Street is fraud. That's very different from saying that fraud contributed to the meltdown.

 
Quinnipiac Poll 2/2 - 2/4

General election matchups among American voters show:

Clinton trails Rubio 48 – 41 percent;

Sanders and Rubio are tied 43 – 43 percent.
She is so much more electable
I've said in the past that going below 50 is a huge problem for Hillary. She's the most famous woman in America. Despite introducing and re-introducing herself multiple times in recent years, there's really nobody that doesn't already know who she is and doesn't have an opinion on her fitness for the Presidency. If she's now really below 50, it's not like a bunch of people are going to suddenly find out about her and swell the ranks of her supporters. At that point, it's hard to know where any additional votes for her are going to come from.

 
What blows me away is that after all these years of complaining about the lack of viable third party candidates (Bernie is an independent after all), the corrosive influence of money and special interests, the negative ads, yadda yadda yadda.

Now here comes this guy that turns it all on its head and he's more than just competitive, he has a chance to actually win this thing. If those numbers hold there's no doubt in my mind that he overtakes her. Most of the country is just tuning in and if there's one thing we know it's the more people learn about Bernie, the more they like him.

If he's done nothing else and goes no farther he's reinvigorated my participation in politics and improved my opinion of my fellow man. I didn't know if it was possible to get through all the old hippie socialist/just a dreamer bs rhetoric, but he's doing it.

Now I just have to give him more money, make more calls, drive to Nevada, whatever. But it will be with a smile on my face.
I've only voted for ralph nader and jill stein in my lifetime for president, I would love go to the polls on election day and vote for a progressive democrat!

 
What blows me away is that after all these years of complaining about the lack of viable third party candidates (Bernie is an independent after all), the corrosive influence of money and special interests, the negative ads, yadda yadda yadda.

Now here comes this guy that turns it all on its head and he's more than just competitive, he has a chance to actually win this thing. If those numbers hold there's no doubt in my mind that he overtakes her. Most of the country is just tuning in and if there's one thing we know it's the more people learn about Bernie, the more they like him.

If he's done nothing else and goes no farther he's reinvigorated my participation in politics and improved my opinion of my fellow man. I didn't know if it was possible to get through all the old hippie socialist/just a dreamer bs rhetoric, but he's doing it.

Now I just have to give him more money, make more calls, drive to Nevada, whatever. But it will be with a smile on my face.
I don't think he's quite going to get over the finish line, but hopefully he paves the way for a better way to do politics in the future. :thumbup:
He has had influence even if he doesn't win but he should have imposed some kind of conditions in order for him to endorse Hillary. He has a senate career though and although more outspoken about Democratic Party failures than any Democrat he does not like to throw the party under the bus.

 
SIDA! said:
Sinn Fein said:
Better sit down for this one.

New Quinnipiac national poll out this morning:

Clinton 44

Sanders 42

Mountains of salt needed - the poll asks "Democrats and Democrat Leaners" But still, a crazy tightening in a national poll.
Remarkable accomplishment for Bernie.

Not sure that those numbers are legit because I don't know what they define as Democrat Leaners. Many states coming up after New Hampshire aren't open primaries so you have to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary. Not sure which ones those are...but I am pretty sure the bulk of them are like that where NH is more the exception to the rule.

My understanding based on CNN or MSNBC reporting last night (I was switching back and forth) is that Hillary is doing better with registered Dems but Bernie is crushing it with "independents." Not sure if that was a national observation or just specific to NH though as I was doing other stuff at the time the TV was on.
Half of 'independents' are pissed off Democrats.
First of all yes that poll is HUGE. That is a 29 point drop by Hillary in a month.

Secondly just watching the debate I thought Bernie's best line was actually when he emphasized that he is the longest serving INDEPENDENT in Congressional history.

Hillary: yes but DemocractDemocratDemocrat and oh by the way look at all the endorsements (usual suspects) I have lined up behind me.

Bernie: yeah I don't want to be part of that club and I'm not. That's the point.

Btw GOP and Democratic party membership is near historic lows IIRC, per a recent report. So where does all this party allegiance get one in today's political market?
I saw a chart the other day that had stuff like:

  • money raised (pretty close in Q4 and Jan - Hillary has 60% donations from people maxed out at $2700 and donating to her SuperPAC, top 29 donors have contributed $20M, Bernie had 3.25M contributions in January - two-thirds of them were less than $30.
  • delegates won - including the 23-21 advantage from Iowa, HIllary is ahead 385-29 before the primaries start. HELLO Super Delegates.
  • endorsements - 465 to 2
#FeelTheBern
If Bernie wins next elections the party will make the super delegates 51% of delegates. Forces are usually stacked against a progressive that's why I think George McGovern winning the 72 primary and more delegates although he had less of the national popular vote than Humphrey is one of the cooler political stories. He had worked on the commission for how delegates would be awarded in the prior years.

 

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