NCCommish
Footballguy
Then why not release them? Kill the talking point. Make everyone who doubted her look bad. You know why they haven't? Because that isn't the case.
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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter BigSteelThrill
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Because there's probably a comment or two that somebody can take out of context and twist the wrong way.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Nobody would be talking about the birth certificate if Obama would just release it.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
pantagrapher
Footballguy
I've explained already why I think she's waiting. In short: 1. she's going to win the nomination without releasing them. 2. if there's pressure for her to release them during the general, she can actually get something back for doing so ("I'll release the transcripts when Trump releases...").
And the actual release will be, as I've said, the most anti-climactic story since Geraldo opened Al Capone's vault. Boring speeches touching on general topics.
And the actual release will be, as I've said, the most anti-climactic story since Geraldo opened Al Capone's vault. Boring speeches touching on general topics.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Pantagrapher's right. We don't need to see the speeches. Looking at who's been funding her is enough to know she's beholden to the finance industry. Her top contribution industry category? Securities & Investment. At $18.7M, it's far and away the largest contribution sector for her campaign, accounting for 17% of the contributions given by the top 20 industries. The number 2 industry (Retired) is over $5M less than that.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Remember last year, in the Hillary thread, where we were told this time it was going to be different?
pantagrapher
Footballguy
They've been warned that if they talk, Hillary will rescind the sweetheart deal of financial domination that she's planning to hand Goldman Sachs upon taking office.How many people have heard these speeches? Couldn't we just ask some of them to give us a general idea what she said? I'm sure it was at least somewhat memorable for them.
NCCommish
Footballguy
We have. They say she lavished praise on the people paying her. To which everyone not supporting her said duh.How many people have heard these speeches? Couldn't we just ask some of them to give us a general idea what she said? I'm sure it was at least somewhat memorable for them.
The Commish
Footballguy
There could be a video of Hillary killing a puppy and people wouldn't believe it. You think second hand accounts would fly? I personally don't need the speeches. Her actions tell me everything I need to know. They would be fantastic political theater though. It'd be provided by either people feeling it necessary to defend her or those making a mountain out of a mole hill in order to bash her. Either wayHow many people have heard these speeches? Couldn't we just ask some of them to give us a general idea what she said? I'm sure it was at least somewhat memorable for them.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Jeremy
Footballguy
That would certainly make the most sense. Probably not unlike Romney 47% speech. You're in a room full of rich donors, you say the unwashed masses are a bunch of freeloaders. I'm assuming she told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
pantagrapher
Footballguy
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renesauz
IBL Representative
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't think I could phone bank, I know I would get super nervous and mess it up, but my mother in law called me today and asked who my husband and I were voting for and why. I told her a couple things about Bernie and hooray another vote for Bernie. Is there away to check how many registered voters there are in you precinct? I was voter 461 and actually had to wait about 25 minutes to vote.Big turnout numbers reported in Michigan.
I'm personally not a fan of day-of phonebanking, but reach out to anyone you might know in MI or MS and ask if they plan to participate in democracy today.
timschochet
Footballguy
Given your political arguments over the years, I'm frankly surprised there are circumstances under which you would vote for Bernie.
My question was really for the progressives here who support Bernie over Hillary. I know there are some independents, libertarian and conservative types who are attracted to Bernie because of his integrity- I take it you are one of those.
Bukkeye_State
Footballguy
LOL at all the dbags who were screaming bloody murder for Romney to release his tax returns doing a 180 now saying Hillary not releasing the transcripts doesn't matter. It matters.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Oh, I get it. It plays on both a misunderstanding of the tenets of socialism in general and an intentional misrepresentation of Bernie Sanders as a traditional socialist and not a Democratic Socialist in the mold of Scandinavian and Western European countries, basically conflating voting for Sanders with a willingness to take half of people's current assets for no other reason than a desire to do so, without any real understanding of the full social and economic impact.
That's really clever.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Sadly, the person who lost half the sign probably would have been happy to give the whole thing away. But I guess that wouldn't have made for such an imminently pithy photo-meme. And by imminently pithy I mean sigh inducingly inane.
timschochet
Footballguy
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Gr00vus
Footballguy
So we're at the part of the show where we get to make up definitions of words, how fun!
Socialism means the people own equal shares of the means of production and the benefits thereof, that there is little to no private property. Sanders is not coming anywhere near suggesting that.
Maybe socialism means federally funded highways, network infrastructure, power plants, airports, postal service, parks management, etc., etc. I'm sure you'd be comfortable with the amount and quality of all those things should we just decide to let people pay for them directly as they see fit, yes?
Vapid attempts at defining complex concepts aside, we already have socialism here in the U.S. It's a question of degree and determination of which public goods should be funded. Do we value an educated populace? Do we value a healthy populace? How much? Are those things enough of a public good to merit using tax revenue to address?
Silly internet memes don't really put forth a case for or against socialism, they just give evidence that the people who create and propagate them probably aren't ready to participate in any meaningful discussions about the best way to govern a nation or a society.
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ffldrew
Footballguy
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I so love it when a liberal decides to pat me on the head and tell me how stupid and unenlightened I am...
It's nice that you consider government providing a service like roads for all people to use is an example of socialism. You do realize that there very hypothetical of direct payment for services exists, right? One example is called the Pennsylvania Turnpike - one of (if not the first) toll roads in America. You know, where you pay directly to use it and the funds go directly towards its maintenance and upkeep? Hmm...funny that.
I'd like to see what you describe as "socialism" in this country today. Education is paid for (at least in PA) by my property taxes - which, I might add as a homeschooling parent I cannot opt out of...even though I derive ZERO benefit from it. I may as well light that money on fire for all the good it does me. I'd just as soon see a sales tax placed as that would force non-property owners whose children derive all the benefits of a school system. I am penalized by the state for not participating in their school system while others - who contribute nothing - get the benefits. Hmmmm...that sounds a lot like a welfare society to me. Even if I did send my kids to public school, the fact that there are renters or other non-property owners who still get to suckle at the state's teat while providing nothing is offensive to me.
The following quote from Thomas Sowell is applicable here:
But, please continue to provide me with evidence that your my intellectual better, keeping in mind this Sowell quote as well:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Okay I am watching MSNBC right now and they show the Bernie rally live in the corner of the screen, but they are paying commercial over him and don't go to the rally live. Is this normal? I am very disappointed
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'm not. It's why I'm not the one ####ting all over the thread like a whining child.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Your posts, fraught as they are with misspellings, grammatical errors, sentence fragments that are completely unintelligible - well, they're pretty much all the evidence I need. Quoting Sowell probably doesn't help your case much either. At least it's not Rand, so, kudos to you for that.
That you are unable to discern what people contribute to society does not in fact mean that those people don't actually contribute to society. Rather than being "penalized", you (we) benefit, greatly, from having an educated populace.
Is it all renters and non-property owners that offend you, or just those who have children and send them to public schools?
I don't understand your toll road example. Did the tolls pay for the initial construction of the road? If not, who/what did? Does the number of toll roads somehow eradicate all the non-toll roads/interstates that people don't pay direct tolls for in this country? Are you advocating for complete privatization of all transportation infrastructure in this country? Do you foresee any possible shortcomings from such an arrangement?
Your reasoning is faulty, bordering on non-existent. In future, maybe you could think out your rants a little more before you post them.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Wait, is he about to win Michigan?
skol asylum
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It would make my night and I have been sick all day and have barely ate. I don't think I will be able to sleep until we know.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Win or lose, i really want to see Bernie get more support from the African American community. It's just ridiculous they are completely ignoring him given his work as a young man fighting to end segregation. But somehow Hillary is their hero. I don't ####### get it. It's insane.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Code:
Meanwhile on the Democratic side in Michigan, we have very little of the vote reporting from Wayne County (Detroit). Wayne is home to a lot of African-American voters, so don’t read too much into the early returns until more of Wayne reports.Gr00vus
Footballguy
He hasn't been anywhere near as visible nationally over the last 20 years. Also he has been a little tone deaf in appealing to that community in light of current concerns. As Tim quoted earlier, it seems like the emphasis now is on overt racism rather than economic disadvantage stemming from racism, and he's been playing up the latter while things like Black Lives Matter are more focused on the former.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Is Michigan winner take all?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm pretty libertarian. Bernie has lots of libertarian positions. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with his solutions to much of our economic problems, at least I tend to think he has diagnosed them correctly. I don't think Hillary or the GOP have even figured out what the problems are, much less know how to solve them. And, yeah, integrity counts for a lot. A whole lot.
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