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24 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

Does Austan Goolsbee count?  

“The numbers don’t remotely add up,” said Austan Goolsbee, formerly chairman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers, now at the University of Chicago.

Alluding to one progressive analyst’s criticism of the Sanders agenda as “puppies and rainbows,” Mr. Goolsbee said that after his and others’ further study, “they’ve evolved into magic flying puppies with winning Lotto tickets tied to their collars.”

You understand that Goolsbee was talking about Friedman's analysis of Sanders' plan, which was never adopted as a policy position by the campaign, right?

 

Edit: and yes, that's the NYT piece I was referring to.

Edited by Henry Ford
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A curse upon New York - no New York sports franchise will win a title in 2016. For every person that likes this post I'll add a year to the curse.

Want to offer a particularly large #### you to the people who made tonight possible. We could've had Bernie ####### Sanders as our president. Enjoy president Trump.

Here's Bernie's speech from Oct. 12, 2011 on the Panama deal. It is unbelievable how time after time after time, he has been on the right side of issues.   Finally, Mr. President, let's talk abou

5 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Admittedly, I'm out of the economics game.  It's been many years since I taught International Trade and Finance.  And even longer since I taught Banking Law. But I'm interested in your independent analysis.  I'll try not to sound too stupid, please be patient if I ask lots of questions.  I do admit that I have a lot in common with the Center for Economic and Policy Research.  So it helps that they are pretty left leaning.  But I'll keep an open mind.

LOL.  I appreciate the Hey-look-at-me! resume drop, but I'll stick with Goolsbee and the TPC's analysis. I'm ignorant like that.  

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Just now, tommyGunZ said:

LOL.  I appreciate the Hey-look-at-me! resume drop, but I'll stick with Goolsbee and the TPC's analysis. I'm ignorant like that.  

Okay.  When you ask for liberal economists who support Sanders' proposals and I link to the CEPR, I think it's clear who I'm going with.

Hell, RAND's director of health policy research said it was probably a little low on the tax side, but in the ballpark. 

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3 minutes ago, FatUncleJerryBuss said:

For HRC supporters, you would have been much better served for her if you never entered this thread.   I will say I am voting trump as my worst best option, but just voting trump for that pant guy.

So when Bernie endorses Hillary, that's when you decide he's not trustworthy?

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1 minute ago, FatUncleJerryBuss said:

I want him to keep running, if he endores her it will be a kick in the balls.  

It'll be after the nomination is official. But he will endorse her when the alternative is Trump.

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21 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

So when Bernie endorses Hillary, that's when you decide he's not trustworthy?

I trust him that he believes Clinton is better than Trump. That doesn't mean she's necessarily a good candidate. I trust he'll have made what he feels is the best decision at that point. I assume his supporters will take that into account but not use it as their sole criteria.

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I'm leaving for Punta Cana in the morning which is the only thing that doesn't have me in full depression mode right now.  Bernie, his message and his integrity have caused me to really examine my political beliefs though and that process doesn't stop just because he had a bad night.  I'm convinced we need deep, fundamental change in our political system though and I'm open to candidates of all political persuasions who feel the same.  Not sure who I will vote for in November but it will never be Hillary.

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5 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

So did his message just not strike home with enough people? Maybe it's not what the U.S. wants?

Tough to make up campaigning ground over 6 months against someone who's been running for President for 12 years or so. I'm thinking just not being enough of a known quantity on the national level has been the downfall. Maybe not.

I think this is the biggest reason.

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8 hours ago, Otis said:

Guess I might as well just go trump at this point. 

This is a bridge too far for me.  No offense GB but that guy will divide our country more than almost anything we've ever seen.  One of my favorite things about Bernie was that virtually everyone liked and/or respected him - folks like Chet and Noonan were going to hate his attempted policies but you would not see a lot of protesting and race relations would have gotten better IMO.

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6 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

So did his message just not strike home with enough people? Maybe it's not what the U.S. wants?

I think it comes down to a few things:

- generally speaking people don't educate themselves on many of the candidates positions - like FC they just make assumptions or listen to what others are telling them

- older and black voters - this was his biggest problem - I won't go as far as Bob's post but is does seem odd that there was so much protesting in the AA community during the last several years but they just signed up for 8 more years of the same - there's a disconnect somewhere

- name recognition and starting earlier with his message - I'm not saying he would have won with more time but in just about every state he went from huge deficits to close contests (save a few) once people got to hear him and what he was about - I think that's remarkable, months ago I thought he had no chance and he'll end up with a healthy percentage of delegates

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It was never going to work because you have large segments of the liberal voting base, especially minorities, who do not understand and participate in the capitalist idea of risk taking.  Voting for Bernie is taking a risk over the known quantity Hillary.  You can't get someone to take a risk who has never taken such a risk.

 

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10 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Probably best for the Clinton camp to rally the troops.  It's going to be close between Clinton and Trump. And she may well lose to Cruz.

Yeah.  With Kasich winning Ohio, we are looking at a brokered convention, and I'm willing to bet that there is no way the GOP let's Trump emerge from there as the candidate.

Kasich may very well come out on top.  And he'll beat Hillary.

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1 minute ago, Idiot Boxer said:

Yeah.  With Kasich winning Ohio, we are looking at a brokered convention, and I'm willing to bet that there is no way the GOP let's Trump emerge from there as the candidate.

Kasich may very well come out on top.  And he'll beat Hillary.

That is definitely not the way I want the last laugh in this election cycle.

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6 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Will Kasich win 8 States? I thought he only had 1 or 2 to this point.

He has one, but by taking that one, he's made it virtually impossible for Trump (or anyone) to get the requisite number of candidates prior to the convention.

Plus, by winning Ohio, he's gained some legitimacy and will likely pick up Rubio voters going forward.

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4 minutes ago, Idiot Boxer said:

He has one, but by taking that one, he's made it virtually impossible for Trump (or anyone) to get the requisite number of candidates prior to the convention.

Plus, by winning Ohio, he's gained some legitimacy and will likely pick up Rubio voters going forward.

So does Kasich have an actual chance here?  Or is this just basically a ploy to keep Trump out of the white house?

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10 hours ago, Clayton Gray said:

In general, Democrats are scared of real change.

Well yeah...they have a good thing going in their party right now.  They're winning a lot.  The short term is to "keep doing what you're doing" not seeing that it won't last and change is beginning to happen anyway.

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4 minutes ago, Otis said:

So does Kasich have an actual chance here?  Or is this just basically a ploy to keep Trump out of the white house?

The GOP establishment will do everything they can to keep Trump from being the nominee.  A brokered convention could help that.

 

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7 minutes ago, Idiot Boxer said:

He has one, but by taking that one, he's made it virtually impossible for Trump (or anyone) to get the requisite number of candidates prior to the convention.

Plus, by winning Ohio, he's gained some legitimacy and will likely pick up Rubio voters going forward.

It's against RNC rules for him to have the nomination without at least 8 state wins.

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8 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

So did his message just not strike home with enough people? Maybe it's not what the U.S. wants?

Tough to make up campaigning ground over 6 months against someone who's been running for President for 12 years or so. I'm thinking just not being enough of a known quantity on the national level has been the downfall. Maybe not.

From the beginning I wondered if Bernie would have enough time.  He didn't.  What he did to close those gaps was impressive.  He did all he could.  If we are to believe the :hophead: all the black people were too guilty to vote for Bernie and we know old people don't want things changed.  Those two groups dominated the south where Hillary could build her lead.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

From the beginning I wondered if Bernie would have enough time.  He didn't.  What he did to close those gaps was impressive.  He did all he could.  If we are to believe the :hophead: all the black people were too guilty to vote for Bernie and we know old people don't want things changed.  Those two groups dominated the south where Hillary could build her lead.

Just got a "don't you dare give up on me" email from Bernie.  Brings a tear to my eye.

We fight on and hope for indictment.

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7 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

 

:lol:  Gunz getting owned in another thread.

 

He'll roll out some bogus CBO projections next.

Or he'll mock a source that he's used many times in the past...SSDD. Rinse and Repeat.

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5 hours ago, FatUncleJerryBuss said:

I just think hrc sends a bad message, you stay with your cheating husband and pretend it didnt happen, you can be pres too.   

 

6 hours ago, FatUncleJerryBuss said:

For HRC supporters, you would have been much better served for her if you never entered this thread.   I will say I am voting trump as my worst best option, but just voting trump for that pant guy.

So to recap, you are voting for the guy who boasted about cheating on his first wife (and has made countless other misogynistic comments) but you "think it sends a bad message" if Clinton were elected because "stayed with your cheating husband and pretended it didn't happen."

Is that accurate? 

 

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I hope our young Bernie supporters understand what older minorities and old Democrats understand ... a Bernie supporter is forever stamped as DISLOYAL to the Democrat party and if they have future political hopes they won't go anywhere.  

You are welcomed on the a Trump bandwagon though.

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13 minutes ago, Idiot Boxer said:

He has one, but by taking that one, he's made it virtually impossible for Trump (or anyone) to get the requisite number of candidates prior to the convention.

Plus, by winning Ohio, he's gained some legitimacy and will likely pick up Rubio voters going forward.

Kasich wins his home state and now he is the guy?  I can't imagine Cruz would be on board with that come convention time.  Cruz is a young guy and wants to position himself as the favorite in four years so I would think he would push his delegates to back Trump over Kasich.  He could spin it as being for the democratic process and honoring the will of the people.  Granted, I don't know all rules regarding a brokered convention but pretty sure even just a portion of Cruz delegates puts Trump over the top.

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2 minutes ago, spreagle said:

I hope our young Bernie supporters understand what older minorities and old Democrats understand ... a Bernie supporter is forever stamped as DISLOYAL to the Democrat party and if they have future political hopes they won't go anywhere.  

You are welcomed on the a Trump bandwagon though.

I doubt they give a #### what old people think and I'm not confident they even identify with the democratic party.  They identify with Bernie.  I'm not overly confident they give a #### about the party either.

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11 hours ago, AnonymousBob said:

 

No Democrat is going to beat Hillary running for re-election (assuming she ends up winning). Progressives are looking at a minimum 8 years until they can run seriously (again assuming she wins). Castro, Booker, Newsom, and some others are going to be the next wave. I don't think any of them are quite liberal enough (Gavin might be). The hope is candidates notice the support Bernie's policies got and slowly adopt elements of it. 

My sincere hope is that Sanders supporters show as much interest in fomenting a bottom-up revolution as they did in a top-down one. There's plenty of work to do in the next 8 years. On a local level, I tend to go for progressive candidates within the democratic party. These are the people who will eventually become the candidate pool and I believe this is the better way to build a strong, lasting progressive coalition. Picking an independent to take the reins of the party in a presidential bid was not an ideal situation. You need people who work within the party. I'm a strong believer in that.

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5 minutes ago, chet said:

It's ironic to me that Bernie was the most trustworthy candidate but I was viscerally opposed to most of his platform.  I take major issue with redistribution of wealth.

I'm not sure irony means what you think :oldunsure:

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6 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

He can't drop out until the convention.  Like it or not, there is still that minute chance of the DOJ seeking an indictment.  God knows they went after Petraeus. 

This is why I don't want Bernie to drop out and endorse HRC.  

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15 minutes ago, pantagrapher said:
11 hours ago, AnonymousBob said:

 

No Democrat is going to beat Hillary running for re-election (assuming she ends up winning). Progressives are looking at a minimum 8 years until they can run seriously (again assuming she wins). Castro, Booker, Newsom, and some others are going to be the next wave. I don't think any of them are quite liberal enough (Gavin might be). The hope is candidates notice the support Bernie's policies got and slowly adopt elements of it. 

My sincere hope is that Sanders supporters show as much interest in fomenting a bottom-up revolution as they did in a top-down one. There's plenty of work to do in the next 8 years. On a local level, I tend to go for progressive candidates within the democratic party. These are the people who will eventually become the candidate pool and I believe this is the better way to build a strong, lasting progressive coalition. Picking an independent to take the reins of the party in a presidential bid was not an ideal situation. You need people who work within the party. I'm a strong believer in that.

This would be ideal, I suppose, but I get zero sense that those in office, or running for office are interested in turning over the apple cart.  They seem to be content getting to the table and don't want to do anything to mess it up.

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41 minutes ago, pantagrapher said:

My sincere hope is that Sanders supporters show as much interest in fomenting a bottom-up revolution as they did in a top-down one. There's plenty of work to do in the next 8 years. On a local level, I tend to go for progressive candidates within the democratic party. These are the people who will eventually become the candidate pool and I believe this is the better way to build a strong, lasting progressive coalition. Picking an independent to take the reins of the party in a presidential bid was not an ideal situation. You need people who work within the party. I'm a strong believer in that.

Good post. While I align closely with Bernie on issues and think his proposals are generally in line with where we need to trend, I also recognize that had he been elected there was virtually no chance of anything close to his platform getting done. Obama had tepid proposals by comparison and the best we got were one-sided compromises that sill met fierce Republican criticism. Overcoming liberal apathy in state, local and off Presidential cycle elections would be a big step towards making those goals more achievable. 

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