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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (3 Viewers)

Bernie has treated Hillary with kid gloves compared to what the vast majority of politicians (including Bill & Hillary) would do in a tough fought campaign.  Bernie gave her a pass several months ago on her email problems.  Additionally, if Bernie really wanted to attack her on Energy issues, he could be all over her for the Russian Uranium deal while she was at State and the 31.5M donated by Frank Giustra.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

 
rascal said:
As a conservative I find the only candidate worth voting for is Bernie.  Won't vote for the republican lunatics in Cruz/Trump (maybe Kasich but he isn't winning) and will never vote for Hillary.
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I hear this a lot.  It's nice to see more of it.

 
They may say it now, but I find it hard to believe a significant number of conservatives will show up and vote Bernie in November.

 
timschochet said:
Sure. He doubled her in ad spending. And the demographics favor him. 

It would concern me for future states because as I've written for months his message is sexier than hers. But at this point the numbers are too strong in her favor. Bernie's not going to catch up. 
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He spent almost twice as much as her in Nevada as well. Didn't seem to buy him as much. 

I agree the young white male voters are plentiful in Wisconsin and were expected to go his way, but the fact remains they hadn't gone his way in any of the polls. Until about a week or two ago. Then suddenly everyone seemed to flip. And what might be even more alarming for Hillary fans is he's appeared to capture the black voters by a significant margin (currently at 11%).

She's probably still going to be able to run out the clock and win the nomination but there are some definite signs Bernie is starting to make serious inroads in areas which were previously thought to be untouchable. 

 
pantagrapher said:
They may say it now, but I find it hard to believe a significant number of conservatives will show up and vote Bernie in November.
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If conservatives - true conservatives, not Tea Party supporters or neocons - are faced with Ted Cruz or Donald Trump on one side and Bernie Sanders on the other, I have no doubt they will vote for Sanders.

 
rascal said:
As a conservative I find the only candidate worth voting for is Bernie.  Won't vote for the republican lunatics in Cruz/Trump (maybe Kasich but he isn't winning) and will never vote for Hillary.
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Welcome aboard, we're happy to have you! I've noticed a lot of relative newcomers to this thread lately. Welcome, all.

Here's a link to Bernie on the issues.

Here's a link to donate your money.

Here's a link to donate your time.

Here's a link to any nearby Bernie events.

 
Britney Spears said:
Tommy,

One of the key things that distinguishes Sanders however is what is at least perceived as higher quality of character. This is something very important to some voters, like myself, where Hillary has some perceived suspect qualities. How else can his campaign illustrate this significant difference?
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Point to specific instances where Hillary's integrity was compromised. This idea that Hillary is somehow beholden to the oil and gas industry because of 0.15% or 0.8% of her contributions came from folks working in that industry is kind of silly. It's exactly the type of misleading, soundbite politics that Bernie is supposed to be against. 

 
Do any supporters actually think he can get anything done if President? A good chunk of Democrats aren't fully on board with him, let alone Republicans.

I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. You don't think Congress will just laugh at him?

I am just really curious how you guys think this would play out. I mean, give me your wildest Bernie, Warren and you threesome wet dream... what do you really think will happen?

 
Of course the irony of the link Tim posted refuting the oil and gas money, is that is specifically points out that Oil and Gas is not her biggest source of funds - that belongs to the Financial Services industry...

 
Chadstroma said:
Do any supporters actually think he can get anything done if President? A good chunk of Democrats aren't fully on board with him, let alone Republicans.

I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. You don't think Congress will just laugh at him?

I am just really curious how you guys think this would play out. I mean, give me your wildest Bernie, Warren and you threesome wet dream... what do you really think will happen?
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Corporate loopholes being fixed could get done. And I hope it does.

 
Chadstroma said:
Do any supporters actually think he can get anything done if President? A good chunk of Democrats aren't fully on board with him, let alone Republicans.

I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. You don't think Congress will just laugh at him?

I am just really curious how you guys think this would play out. I mean, give me your wildest Bernie, Warren and you threesome wet dream... what do you really think will happen?
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I imagine Bernie will negotiate for what he can get and compromise on some issues, get nowhere on others. As he's done before. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Do any supporters actually think he can get anything done if President? A good chunk of Democrats aren't fully on board with him, let alone Republicans.

I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. You don't think Congress will just laugh at him?

I am just really curious how you guys think this would play out. I mean, give me your wildest Bernie, Warren and you threesome wet dream... what do you really think will happen?
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Bernie doesn't "want everything free".  He has plans to increase taxes and cut spending in other areas to largely* pay for expansion of his policies.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Of course the irony of the link Tim posted refuting the oil and gas money, is that is specifically points out that Oil and Gas is not her biggest source of funds - that belongs to the Financial Services industry...
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Yeah I've been greatly amused by the entire defense her team has been spinning. 

Oil and gas doesn't own her! If anyone does it's Wall Street! But Wall Street doesn't own her either because she went to them after 9/11 and told them to cut it out!

 
Chadstroma said:
Do any supporters actually think he can get anything done if President? A good chunk of Democrats aren't fully on board with him, let alone Republicans.

I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. You don't think Congress will just laugh at him?

I am just really curious how you guys think this would play out. I mean, give me your wildest Bernie, Warren and you threesome wet dream... what do you really think will happen?
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Sanders has been one of the most effective Senators, a very effective representative, and has consistently found ways to get things done.  I do not think he'd be met with the same level of obstructionism that the R's have shown Obama and would surely show Clinton.

 
Sinn Fein said:
i think that is a fair assessment.

I don't think he thought he could win until late November/December - and that colored how he campaigned.  By the time he realized the sheer number of his base supporters, he had already allowed Clinton to find her footing.  A more ruthless politician would have kept hammering at Clinton when she was initially wobbled by the email scandal.  Clinton certainly would have gone after Sanders if the roles were revered.

But, here we are.  Can't worry about what ifs, and what could have beens.  Still have a slugger's chance, and quite frankly he could still get some help from the FBI...If something happens on that front, I think he has too much support for the DNC to look to an outsider.
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This is fair, but let's face it:

- Fall 2015, Bernie to Hillary: 'I'm sick and tired of hearing about your emails.'

- Spring 2016, Hillary to Bernie: 'I'm sick of you lying about me.'

Supporting Hillary is its own reward.

 
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pantagrapher said:
They may say it now, but I find it hard to believe a significant number of conservatives will show up and vote Bernie in November.
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You don't believe that true conservatives, whose #1 uniting issue the past few decades has been lower taxes, are going to suddenly flip and vote for a tax increase that makes Obama's 3% raise on the poor look like chump change?  

 
pantagrapher said:
They may say it now, but I find it hard to believe a significant number of conservatives will show up and vote Bernie in November.
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You should look at the fundamentals and the numbers then.

The numbers say that people who prioritize honesty and integrity in government have overwhelmingly - to the tune of 75% to almost 90% - supported Sanders over Hillary in Democratic primaries. There is no reason this would not hold in the general.

As for fundamentals, Trump is viewed unfavorably by even a majority of white men now, ranging all the way up to absurd numbers we see with some other demos, like 80+%. Again, no reason to think people won't be supporting the most popular person in either party right now, Sanders, as opposed to holding their nose with the candidate who has the 2nd most unfavorable rating number in modern presidential history, Hillary.

 
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tommyGunZ said:
You don't believe that true conservatives, whose #1 uniting issue the past few decades has been lower taxes, are going to suddenly flip and vote for a tax increase that makes Obama's 3% raise on the poor look like chump change?  
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They're going to be so scared of the GOP candidate promising to lower their taxes and nominate conservative justices that they'll blow a fuse, apparently.

 
pantagrapher said:
We know about Hillary's Wall Street speech money because she released all her tax returns.
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True, to her credit and Bill's, they have been releasing their tax returns for a long time now.

The Foundation of course has had to resubmit their tax returns for the last 5 years because of inaccuracies.

 
tommyGunZ said:
You don't believe that true conservatives, whose #1 uniting issue the past few decades has been lower taxes, are going to suddenly flip and vote for a tax increase that makes Obama's 3% raise on the poor look like chump change?  
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Trump just went on the air in Wisconsin and attacked Walker for not raising taxes.

 
On the tax thing if Bernie's wife does them and his income consists almost entirely of his Senate paycheck not expecting to find much. Still he needs to get it done so there is one less silly point for some to dwell on.

 
Since we're going to have to discuss these contributions, apparently, probably best to discuss one of the sticking points: bundled contributions.  

A FAQ on bundled contributions:

http://www.fec.gov/law/lobbybundlingfaq.shtml

So, let's look at the fec filing of bundled contributions to Hillary for America, which are at issue.

1. Ankit N. Desai, Cheniere Energy, $82,000.00

Mr. Desai is a Vice President of Cheniere Energy, a fossil fuel company heavily involved in fracking and natural gas exports.

2. Steve Elmendorf, Elmendorf/Ryan, $141,815.00

Mr. Elmendorf is a named partner in the lobbying firm of Elmendorf/Ryan.  Elmendorf/Ryan does have many clients - including oil companies, Monsanto, and Citigroup. Shell Oil is definitely one of his larger clients according to the lobbying disclosures act database.

3. David Jones, Capitol Counsel, $120,675.00

Clients include Atlas Energy (an oil and gas production group), XCEL Energy (a utility group, including natural gas utility companies), and Chevron Corp.

4. Bruce Thompson, Parker Poe, $19,400.00

Mr. Thompson is an attorney in the firm of Parker Poe.  Parker Poe does a great deal of Oil and Gas law, but I don't think the $19,400.00 number should be ascribed to the fossil fuel industry.

That's page 1.

 
tommyGunZ said:
You don't believe that true conservatives, whose #1 uniting issue the past few decades has been lower taxes, are going to suddenly flip and vote for a tax increase that makes Obama's 3% raise on the poor look like chump change?  
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True conservatives' #1 uniting issue the past few decades has not been lowering taxes.  It's been honesty.  The Bill Clinton administration began the schism in this country between right and left as it exists today, and it began over one big issue: left wing believes that the right wing values punishing the left wing more than the prosperity of this country, and right wing believes that left wing is a bunch of inveterate liars with no integrity.

In the absence of a true conservative candidate to support who isn't insane, a true conservative will vote for the most honest candidate.  I believe that.

 
Henry Ford said:
True conservatives' #1 uniting issue the past few decades has not been lowering taxes.  It's been honesty.  The Bill Clinton administration began the schism in this country between right and left as it exists today, and it began over one big issue: left wing believes that the right wing values punishing the left wing more than the prosperity of this country, and right wing believes that left wing is a bunch of inveterate liars with no integrity.

In the absence of a true conservative candidate to support who isn't insane, a true conservative will vote for the most honest candidate.  I believe that.
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Wow. I get called naive here all the time, and often I'm guilty of that, but this comment takes it to new heights. 

 
timschochet said:
Wow. I get called naive here all the time, and often I'm guilty of that, but this comment takes it to new heights. 
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Conservatives believe you vote or you don't get to complain.

Conservatives do not support Trump or Cruz because they're insane.

If Bernie Sanders is the other option, and he's still viewed as honest at that point, he'll get the conservative vote in a landslide.

 
VandyMan said:
Sanders has been one of the most effective Senators, a very effective representative, and has consistently found ways to get things done.  I do not think he'd be met with the same level of obstructionism that the R's have shown Obama and would surely show Clinton.
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You are high writing this, right?

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Bernie has treated Hillary with kid gloves compared to what the vast majority of politicians (including Bill & Hillary) would do in a tough fought campaign.  Bernie gave her a pass several months ago on her email problems.  Additionally, if Bernie really wanted to attack her on Energy issues, he could be all over her for the Russian Uranium deal while she was at State and the 31.5M donated by Frank Giustra.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
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If I had been running against Hillary it would have been a bloodbath. I would have hammered her from day one and never let up. And since the Clinton's liked to claim it was a co-presidency I certainly wouldn't have pretended like Bill's admin and what it did didn't count.

 
NCCommish said:
If I had been running against Hillary it would have been a bloodbath. I would have hammered her from day one and never let up. And since the Clinton's liked to claim it was a co-presidency I certainly wouldn't have pretended like Bill's admin and what it did didn't count.
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Isn't that exactly why Bernie is so well liked - because he DOESN'T do stuff like the bold?  

It's certainly part of the charm for me.  

 
Chadstroma said:
How does he get this done?
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Well if he gets the nom he starts looking at the candidates who are now calling themselves Berniecrats and fundraises/supports their candidacy. As more Democrats figure out the way the wind blows they sign on. The Progressive caucus is already the biggest one in Congress and adding members only increases their power. Add to that a possible Trump run killing the down ticket and maybe we get the Congress. And maybe we don't get a blue dog congress. And then the fun really starts. But even if none of that happens what do you think happens when President Sanders has a million people on the DC mall demanding action? I think we get action. Maybe not this cycle but maybe next. Also remember you ask for the whole loaf and maybe you can negotiate half. Lots of way to skin the proverbial cat. You only lose when you stop fighting.

 
timschochet said:
Wow. I get called naive here all the time, and often I'm guilty of that, but this comment takes it to new heights. 
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Actually Tim, Henry sums up my current situation perfectly.  As you may have gathered from my other posts here and there, I'm pretty conservative.  I can't stand Trump, and think that Cruz is too far out there for me.  Sanders is the most honest one left, and even though it could indeed cost me my current job, unless something changes - he's likely to get my vote.  As HF also said a few posts later, conservatives either vote or don't complain.  I like to complain....so I'll vote.

 
So I keep hearing how we have to let things go because Hillary apologized. Does her apology give the black community back it's young men who lost years to prison? Does her apology bring thousands of Americans and 100s of thousands of Iraqis back from the dead? Does it put trillions back in our coffers from a war we should have never been in? Does it put money back in my parents retirement fund after her and Bills disastrous killing of Glass/Stegall? Does her apology help alleviate the poverty her and Bills rending of the social safety net help acerbate? No it doesn't. The apologies are nice and all but that's all they are. The poor judgement is the thing.

 
matttyl said:
Actually Tim, Henry sums up my current situation perfectly.  As you may have gathered from my other posts here and there, I'm pretty conservative.  I can't stand Trump, and think that Cruz is too far out there for me.  Sanders is the most honest one left, and even though it could indeed cost me my current job, unless something changes - he's likely to get my vote.  As HF also said a few posts later, conservatives either vote or don't complain.  I like to complain....so I'll vote.
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My own data on this is limited to anecdotal but I know several conservatives who have approached me to talk about Bernie. They think Trump is insane, Cruz scares them due to his obvious want for a theocracy and they would rather cut off their arms than vote for a Clinton. I think he pulls a not insignificant number of usually reliable Republican votes in a general.

 
Chadstroma said:
I mean, really, ok~ Let's say ole' Bernie is in the White House and doesn't keel over from the excitement. Now, he says he wants everything free and to tax everyone to the hilt. 
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It's one thing to have to disabuse the knuckle draggers in here of this notion but you're smart enough to know better. This is just idle trolling here.

 
matttyl said:
Actually Tim, Henry sums up my current situation perfectly.  As you may have gathered from my other posts here and there, I'm pretty conservative.  I can't stand Trump, and think that Cruz is too far out there for me.  Sanders is the most honest one left, and even though it could indeed cost me my current job, unless something changes - he's likely to get my vote.  As HF also said a few posts later, conservatives either vote or don't complain.  I like to complain....so I'll vote.
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You're not alone.  Happy to have you on board 

 
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