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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (5 Viewers)

It's really sad. I didn't want it to come to this. 

Despite the haters in here (mostly from the Bernie side, though not all) Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton agree on about 9 out of every 10 issues. They are both good people. They would both make far preferable Presidents than Trump or Cruz (though that's not s high standard.) Hopefully they can stop this and get back to the civility that's been the hallmark of this race, as opposed to the other side, thus far. 
Their voting records disagree :shrug:

You've been provided a list of things where they aren't on the same page....now time to list all the places they do agree, and we'll even allow you to include the things the American people dragged her towards (like abortion) to count towards her total.

 
I think this is very reasoned analysis, though I also agree with Henry that Bernie's also at a "#### or get off the pot" point, so perhaps shaking up the outcomes is the rational game theory play. 
There was no guarantee that Hillary's campaign would go on all out attack. Clearly based on the CNN report they were considering it. If I was Bernie's campaign manager I would want to make sure she gets there. Angry Hillary does not make people want to vote for her. 

 
Their voting records disagree :shrug:

You've been provided a list of things where they aren't on the same page....now time to list all the places they do agree, and we'll even allow you to include the things the American people dragged her towards (like abortion) to count towards her total.
LOFL.

You can't write this stuff folks.  See how ridiculously divorced from the facts the narrative has become?  

 
LOFL.

You can't write this stuff folks.  See how ridiculously divorced from the facts the narrative has become?  
I think the difficulty with using "voting record" as pure numbers is that a huge number of Senate votes are just perfunctory votes that Republicans and Democrats agree on.  Bills to name post offices.  Bills to recognize someone as a great person.  Bills to declare National We Love Donuts day.  Whatever.  You can't put those votes on the same level as a vote for the Iraq war, or the PLCAA, or any of the strong substantive issues that differentiate candidates not only within the Democratic Party, but between parties.

 
I think the difficulty with using "voting record" as pure numbers is that a huge number of Senate votes are just perfunctory votes that Republicans and Democrats agree on.  Bills to name post offices.  Bills to recognize someone as a great person.  Bills to declare National We Love Donuts day.  Whatever.  You can't put those votes on the same level as a vote for the Iraq war, or the PLCAA, or any of the strong substantive issues that differentiate candidates not only within the Democratic Party, but between parties.
But they are oh-so desperate to do so. Obviously.

 
As an unabashed Bernie Backer, I think his move yesterday was a big mistake. And since he's at a place where he can't afford a mistake, it might be fatal.

He should have waited for Hillary to actually begin her campaign to "disqualify" him. Instead, he responded to the media reports that she was about to get negative and hit first. Which then allows Hillary to decry his attack and hold the high ground - all the while having her minions smear him up and down through surrogate attacks. Everyone knows that NY Daily News owner Mort Zuckerman is an enormous Hillary supporter, right? You can expect the Daily News to do nothing but savagely attack Bernie for the next 2 weeks, just as they have been for the last few days.

I really fear that Bernie will now be perceived as the negative campaigner, while the actual practitioner of bare-knuckled campaign filth will be portrayed as the victim.

Hope I'm wrong.
She had already started

 
Wait....is this the point in the show where we are suppose to pretend this isn't the Bernie thread and we aren't talking about the largest of the large issues (as we have been for pages and pages)?  It's been acknowledged many times in this very thread that there is a significant amount of inconsequential places where Bernie and Hillary share the same vote.  Those have been conceded, including all the "glad you finally came around to the position I've stood for for years" votes.  We agreed and moved on, so when we read Tim's post about "9 out of 10" he's either going back to that garbage or flat out wrong.  Either way, on the substantial, most important issues (as outlined in this thread) they are not CLOSE to being on the same page.

 
LOFL.

You can't write this stuff folks.  See how ridiculously divorced from the facts the narrative has become?  
I think the difficulty with using "voting record" as pure numbers is that a huge number of Senate votes are just perfunctory votes that Republicans and Democrats agree on.  Bills to name post offices.  Bills to recognize someone as a great person.  Bills to declare National We Love Donuts day.  Whatever.  You can't put those votes on the same level as a vote for the Iraq war, or the PLCAA, or any of the strong substantive issues that differentiate candidates not only within the Democratic Party, but between parties.
This is correct, which is why it was conceded to and moved on from pages ago, but here we are again.

 
As an unabashed Bernie Backer, I think his move yesterday was a big mistake. And since he's at a place where he can't afford a mistake, it might be fatal.

He should have waited for Hillary to actually begin her campaign to "disqualify" him. Instead, he responded to the media reports that she was about to get negative and hit first. Which then allows Hillary to decry his attack and hold the high ground - all the while having her minions smear him up and down through surrogate attacks. Everyone knows that NY Daily News owner Mort Zuckerman is an enormous Hillary supporter, right? You can expect the Daily News to do nothing but savagely attack Bernie for the next 2 weeks, just as they have been for the last few days.

I really fear that Bernie will now be perceived as the negative campaigner, while the actual practitioner of bare-knuckled campaign filth will be portrayed as the victim.

Hope I'm wrong.
I've been struggling with this. I do think this has been an intentional maneuver by Hillary's campaign with this end in mind. Whether this happens we shall see, but it could also end badly for Hillary. This feels like brinksmanship stuff.

 
Good morning. 

Thanks for the defense, Tommy. I didn't think it was necessary. The facts are out there. Bernie himself has acknowledged on several occasions that he agrees with Hillary the vast majority of the time, and I got the 9 out of 10 number from the voting record. That does not mean they don't disagree, but even on the issues that Bass highlighted, if you break those down in detail, they see far more eye to eye than do the Republicans. 

Bass' conclusion that Hillary is more in common with Trump is beyond ridiculous, but this is the same guy who declared several times that anybody who votes for Hillary is a moron, so I don't consider him worthy of further consideration and that's why I didn't respond in detail. 

FWIW I blame Hillary more than Bernie for this latest kefuffle. I wrote after Tuesday night that IMO she should not be attacking Bernie; this is a tactical error. I hope it doesn't hurt her too badly. 

 
As an unabashed Bernie Backer, I think his move yesterday was a big mistake. And since he's at a place where he can't afford a mistake, it might be fatal.

He should have waited for Hillary to actually begin her campaign to "disqualify" him. Instead, he responded to the media reports that she was about to get negative and hit first. Which then allows Hillary to decry his attack and hold the high ground - all the while having her minions smear him up and down through surrogate attacks. Everyone knows that NY Daily News owner Mort Zuckerman is an enormous Hillary supporter, right? You can expect the Daily News to do nothing but savagely attack Bernie for the next 2 weeks, just as they have been for the last few days.

I really fear that Bernie will now be perceived as the negative campaigner, while the actual practitioner of bare-knuckled campaign filth will be portrayed as the victim.

Hope I'm wrong.
Bernie is behind and absolutely needs to win New York so he has to be aggressive.  The Daily News was already in attack mode as was Hillary's surrogates, frankly so was the cacklingly #### but she was just a tad more subtle about it.  It could definitely backfire on Bernie but he is behind and I would rather if he goes down he goes down swinging than leaving the bat on his shoulder.  Hillary could easily snap in the next week and a half, might as well poke her as much as possible.  I can't wait for the debate.

 
Bernie is behind and absolutely needs to win New York so he has to be aggressive.  The Daily News was already in attack mode as was Hillary's surrogates, frankly so was the cacklingly #### but she was just a tad more subtle about it.  It could definitely backfire on Bernie but he is behind and I would rather if he goes down he goes down swinging than leaving the bat on his shoulder.  Hillary could easily snap in the next week and a half, might as well poke her as much as possible.  I can't wait for the debate.
Bernie is doing exactly what he should be doing. Hillary is the one who needs to be careful. 

 
:oldunsure:

but, she says he is not a democrat...if they agree 93% of the time, what does that make her?
He votes Democratic, but isn't a Democrat.  Top-level Democrats do a whole bunch to help their fellow Democrats.  IOW, he's a Democrat on policy, but not as much when it comes to politics.

 
He votes Democratic, but isn't a Democrat.  Top-level Democrats do a whole bunch to help their fellow Democrats.  IOW, he's a Democrat on policy, but not as much when it comes to politics.
So he is not corrupt?  He supports democratic voters, but not the democratic establishment?

Not sure this is what you highlight to voters...

 
I think the difficulty with using "voting record" as pure numbers is that a huge number of Senate votes are just perfunctory votes that Republicans and Democrats agree on.  Bills to name post offices.  Bills to recognize someone as a great person.  Bills to declare National We Love Donuts day.  Whatever.  You can't put those votes on the same level as a vote for the Iraq war, or the PLCAA, or any of the strong substantive issues that differentiate candidates not only within the Democratic Party, but between parties.
It's certainly not a perfect metric. On the other hand it's an objective measure, and since we're talking about politicians, voting record would seem to be an important factor.

Perhaps looking at the data relative to other politicians in the race provides context.  The Wa Post did that last year.  I think it's fair to say Clinton and Bernie differ on some issues, but I think that difference is being wildly exaggerated for political reasons. 

 
Bernie doesn't help elect other Democrats. He doesn't solicit contributions to the DNC. He hasn't spent countless hours around the country speaking on behalf of Democratic congressmen, Senate candidates, governors, etc. Hillary has done all of this. That's why the super delegates will stay loyal to her. 

 
I think there has been a misunderstanding. Bernie doesnt run negative ads. Bernie prefers to stick to policy. That doesn't mean Bernie lets you slap him over and over. He isn't a pacifist. This is why I used the Ali rope a dope reference. Bernie lets you get frustrated while he plays defense. He lets you punch yourself into a corner and then he takes his shot. Ask his fellow Senators, Bernie ain't afraid of a fight. And this is why I said I'm not Bernie. I am more Tyson. I would hit you from the opening bell and until the ref calls it.

 
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So its ok to force me to buy car insurance and thats not socialism but forcing me to buy health insurance is socialism.  :lol:

Got it.  :thumbup:
That's not my conclusion however, here's an excerpt from a suggested read:  http://townhall.com/columnists/andrewtallman/2009/11/17/is_obamacare_like_mandatory_auto_insurance/page/full

"So, having taken a more diligent look at whether mandatory automobile insurance justifies the imposition of health insurance, we now have a much better sense of its validity. In order to make the comparison justify current health care proposals, Congress (not the states) would have to currently require that all people (regardless of personal wealth or actual car ownership) owned an insurance policy provided by Congress itself that covered routine maintenance, periodic breakdown, and collision repair to their own cars, even ones they acquire with pre-existing defects (like from a junkyard).

Since not one single element of this hypothetical currently exists, and since breathing is not a privilege, my request is simple. During the two weeks that are fair to allow this column to circulate through society, simply boo anyone who makes the car insurance argument in public. Thereafter, I recommend noogies. It’s what one does to recalcitrant freshmen."

 
Not sure this is what you highlight to voters...
It is if the next few contests are primaries where only Democratic voters are voting.

Or if you want to make sure any on-the-fence Democratic superdelegates don't get their heads turned.

 
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Here's the thing on voting records. As pointed out it's a stupid way to measure agreement. Let's look at major issues. Let's look at Iraq. Let's look at TARP. Let's look at dozens of important votes where she went along and Bernie said no. Those are the important votes. Those are the votes that define who you are for better or worse. And Bernie isn't Hillary. Never has been, never will be.

 
Good for him. That's a great piece. 
He made $22M from GE last year, of course he doesn't see any issues with their firm.  I wonder how the people of CT feel about them as they just decided to move their headquarters to Boston after Boston decided to give them a $25M in tax relief and the state of Massachusetts gave them $120M in incentives.  They have a long history of doing everything possible not to pay taxes.

I don't know about destroying the fabric of America but they certainly did a ton of damage to the Hudson River when over a period of 30 years they dumped 1.3 million pounds of PCBs into it.

 
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You got to love Hillary getting mad about attacks for taking fossil fuel money. Does she think we don't remember 2008? When she attacked Obama for the same thing? It's the in your face hypocrisy you have to love. It's OK for me but not for thee,

 
I think there has been a misunderstanding. Bernie doesnt run negative ads. Bernie prefers to stick to policy. That doesn't mean Bernie lets you slap him over and over. He isn't a pacifist. This is why I used the Ali rope a dope reference. Bernie lets you get frustrated while he plays defense. He lets you punch yourself into a corner and then he takes his shot. Ask his fellow Senators, Bernie ain't afraid of a fight. And this is why I said I'm not Bernie. I am more Tyson. I would hit you from the opening bell and until the ref calls it.
Would you bite her ear, NC? 

 
Here's the thing on voting records. As pointed out it's a stupid way to measure agreement. Let's look at major issues. Let's look at Iraq. Let's look at TARP. Let's look at dozens of important votes where she went along and Bernie said no. Those are the important votes. Those are the votes that define who you are for better or worse. And Bernie isn't Hillary. Never has been, never will be.
Let's be honest, voting record isn't a perfect metric for measuring agreement, but it's probably the most objective measure we have.  It's not a "stupid way to measure agreement" between legislators.  It's perhaps the most important thing they do.  To ignore it would be silly.  

Again, it may not be solely determinative, but it's a far better mechanism to measure agreement than "let's pick a few issues I'm passionate about and ignore everything else".  That would be a silly way to measure agreement. 

 
Bernie has said from day one he wouldn't run independent. He has said from day one he would support the Democratic nominee because the GOP are loons. Not sure why that's even news.
It wouldn't be news if he hadn't said yesterday that Hillary wasn't qualified to be President.  

 
So Hillary is now taking the out of context quote and trying to fundraise while denying her own jabs at Bernie's qualifications. Just what I expect from her.

 
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It wouldn't be news if he hadn't said yesterday that Hillary wasn't qualified to be President.  
Luckily that was taken out of context. And let's continue to pretend Hillary hasn't called him a liar, sent her surrogates out to call him a misogynist, had them say he never did anything in Congress, really wasnt involved in the Civil Rights movement, etc. Those weren't out if context.

 
Bernie actually said those words NCC.  I'm not aware of Hillary ever using the words "liar" to describe Bernie.  Got a quote?

 
Thank you NCC and Henry Ford.  Much like when Bernie agrees with you, when you guys are on board you know you are on the right side of the argument. 

 
Bernie Sanders thinks bread lines are a good thing.  http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2016/04/06/oh-my-bernie-sanders-thinks-bread-lines-are-a-good-representation-of-economic-stability-n2144137?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall

You'll also see a video of your favorite praising communists.  But Bernie is different.  He's a Democratic Socialist.   :thumbup:
Holy moly you are the worst.

"You know, it's funny. Sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is when people are lining up for food. That's a good thing. In other countries, people don't line up for food. The rich get the food and the poor starve to death,"

We have people line up for food here. In the US, the richest country in the world.  He is saying there are far worse situations. Especially when the rich in some countries are letting others starve to death.

Good for Bernie. That writer is a moron.

 
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I think Josh Marshall nailed it. Something has happened in the last few days. The Sandersite Id has escaped and Sanders is getting careless as he tries desperately to regain control of the ship.

 
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