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5 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I still don't understand for the life of me how Hillary won the nomination.  Seemed to me that people largely agreed with Bernie, but insisted on voting Clinton because she is the more electable candidate.  People vote for the lesser of two evils candidate instead of someone they actually like and agree with and we always find ourselves wondering how we ended up with two ####ty choices.

People seem to vote in the primaries  based on how they think their candidate will fare in the general election.  In 2012, most Republicans seemed to prefer someone other than Romney, but felt he was the most electable.  You have to give the RNC credit, they put a bunch of guys out there for the voters to choose from.  The DNC wanted this to be a coronation of Hillary from start to finish and it showed in the lack of competition.   Hillary would've had no chance if there had been 2-3 other big names in it from the beginning.

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A curse upon New York - no New York sports franchise will win a title in 2016. For every person that likes this post I'll add a year to the curse.

Want to offer a particularly large #### you to the people who made tonight possible. We could've had Bernie ####### Sanders as our president. Enjoy president Trump.

Here's Bernie's speech from Oct. 12, 2011 on the Panama deal. It is unbelievable how time after time after time, he has been on the right side of issues.   Finally, Mr. President, let's talk abou

29 minutes ago, SacramentoBob said:

People seem to vote in the primaries  based on how they think their candidate will fare in the general election.  In 2012, most Republicans seemed to prefer someone other than Romney, but felt he was the most electable.  You have to give the RNC credit, they put a bunch of guys out there for the voters to choose from.  The DNC wanted this to be a coronation of Hillary from start to finish and it showed in the lack of competition.   Hillary would've had no chance if there had been 2-3 other big names in it from the beginning.

This is exactly what makes no sense to me.  

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18 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Originally I wasn't going to vote, but after thinking long and hard, I just decided I am and I'm writing Bernie in as my protest.

I believe in none of his policies - I'm for small government and low taxes. 

Two reasons I'm writing him in:

1) I can't vote for either candidate, I just can't.

2) He was the only candidate that I think was actually doing what he thought was best for America and would not be influenced or corrupted. Regardless of how much I disagree with his policies, as a 'politician' I like him 1000000000x more than either of these frauds that our ridiculously stupid country will be voting in next week.

Until he lost...  Sickens me to see him be the parties lap dog after how he was treated.

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56 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

I supported him at the time, thinking it was the classy move. But I wonder if Bernie isn't thinking he should have taken her to task on those emails back in the primaries. Probably wouldn't have helped much since the Comey bomb didn't drop until now. If nothing else it might have inured people to the whole email thing earlier.

:kicksrock:

He should have attacked earlier than he did, and he should have campaigned instead of doing his job. He didn't think he had a shot and was just laying groundwork. He underestimated how popular he would be and how accepted his  ideas had become. 

 

He could have won in hindsight but nobody could have predicted that going in. 

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2 minutes ago, Hilts said:

He should have attacked earlier than he did, and he should have campaigned instead of doing his job. He didn't think he had a shot and was just laying groundwork. He underestimated how popular he would be and how accepted his  ideas had become. 

 

He could have won in hindsight but nobody could have predicted that going in. 

"If only they had listened to the voters..."

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1 hour ago, Dickies said:

I still don't understand for the life of me how Hillary won the nomination.  Seemed to me that people largely agreed with Bernie, but insisted on voting Clinton because she is the more electable candidate.  People vote for the lesser of two evils candidate instead of someone they actually like and agree with and we always find ourselves wondering how we ended up with two ####ty choices.

It was all in the presentation of delegates and the large black voting block in the south.

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

It was all in the presentation of delegates and the large black voting block in the south.

That's exactly it.  Also, the media didn't like Bernie because he didn't sell advertising as well as the former first lady who would be the first woman President.

http://billmoyers.com/story/press-take-bernie-sanders/

I hope they are happy with their ad sales.  :middlefinger:

Edited by cstu
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13 hours ago, urbanhack said:

Come on Tommy.

You don't think the Republican base would be up in arms about something from Sanders past right now if he was the nominee? 

Perhaps you have more faith in the Republicans and their base than I do. :shrug:

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32 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

You don't think the Republican base would be up in arms about something from Sanders past right now if he was the nominee? 

Perhaps you have more faith in the Republicans and their base than I do. :shrug:

The difference would be it would be regular stupid crap that would be easily seen for it was and dismissed. Not a recurring nightmare from a candidate that is walking scandal factory.

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7 hours ago, Dickies said:

I still don't understand for the life of me how Hillary won the nomination.  Seemed to me that people largely agreed with Bernie, but insisted on voting Clinton because she is the more electable candidate.  People vote for the lesser of two evils candidate instead of someone they actually like and agree with and we always find ourselves wondering how we ended up with two ####ty choices.

Clinton is getting 8% of the Republican vote. Bernie wasn't getting that.

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12 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

The difference would be it would be regular stupid crap that would be easily seen for it was and dismissed. Not a recurring nightmare from a candidate that is walking scandal factory.

You mean like birth certificates, fake Swift boat veteran groups, and Reverand Wright?  Emailgate is exactly like those scandals - completely devoid of substance and nothing more than an excuse for the narrow minded Republican base to rally around.  

The idea that Sanders would have escaped a fake scandal is laughable.  He's a good man, but he's not clean as a whistle like Obama.  

 

 

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Just now, [scooter] said:

Clinton is getting 8% of the Republican vote. Bernie wasn't getting that.

Bernie carries the biggest party in the country. Independents. He also crushed her with millennials. And BTW many of his policies enjoyed majority support from, wait for it, Republican voters. So I wouldn't be quite so sure.

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3 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

You mean like birth certificates, fake Swift boat veteran groups, and Reverand Wright?  Emailgate is exactly like those scandals - completely devoid of substance and nothing more than an excuse for the narrow minded Republican base to rally around.  

The idea that Sanders would have escaped a fake scandal is laughable.  He's a good man, but he's not clean as a whistle like Obama.  

 

 

No it isn't. See that crap was made up. She did this to herself. It's a real thing and it isn't going away. She is completely hobbled. The GOP is planning to spend every minute of every day investigating her. The only chance the Democrats had was to elect someone who could create a wave election. A double digit win is needed to have a chance to wrest away the House. Even if the Democrats win the Senate this election they will likely lose it next. The map is horrible for Democrats next time around. Again that would be different if the top of the ticket had the country excited and brought in new voters. The Democrats win a couple of Senate seats no one predicted. Hillary has a major enthusiasm gap and her lead is shrinking. She may still win but its a Pyrrhic victory.

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9 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

No it isn't. See that crap was made up. She did this to herself. It's a real thing and it isn't going away. She is completely hobbled. The GOP is planning to spend every minute of every day investigating her. The only chance the Democrats had was to elect someone who could create a wave election. A double digit win is needed to have a chance to wrest away the House. Even if the Democrats win the Senate this election they will likely lose it next. The map is horrible for Democrats next time around. Again that would be different if the top of the ticket had the country excited and brought in new voters. The Democrats win a couple of Senate seats no one predicted. Hillary has a major enthusiasm gap and her lead is shrinking. She may still win but its a Pyrrhic victory.

BS.  This is just as silly. The Republicans from day one were locked in unison to oppose everything he did.  Somehow you think Sanders was going to create a bigger wave than Obama?  I'm a Sanders fan, but he can't hold a candle to Obama as a politician.

You're in fantasyland ignoring the hit pieces that would have been run against Sanders the socialist and all of the "dirt" that would have emerged from Sanders past. Of course it wouldn't have bothered me, but I'm not the guy Sanders would have been competing for in the general.  

 

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5 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

You're in fantasyland ignoring the hit pieces that would have been run against Sanders the socialist and all of the "dirt" that would have emerged from Sanders past. Of course it wouldn't have bothered me, but I'm not the guy Sanders would have been competing for in the general.  

 

If there was any "dirt" to be found I feel confident that Hillary and DWS would have found it during the primaries.

Also, while I'm not one to think anything will come from the email scandal other than what already has, I think you're nuts if you want to compare that to Obama's "scandals".  Hillary has come out admitted she was wrong and made a mistake - they aren't in the same ballpark.

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18 hours ago, squistion said:

Well, - they could have but didn't play the "Socialist" card, which is not "dirt" but would have been the inevitable disqualifier to winning the general election. Annual Gallup Poll which I have linked to a dozen times in various threads show that being a Socialist is a deal breaker in voting for President by a majority of those polled.

Did that poll include that the socialist's opponent would be a racist, blustering, orange, sexual predator with no political experience? Seems important.

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Just now, bud29 said:

Did that poll include that the socialist's opponent would be a racist, blustering, orange, sexual predator with no political experience? Seems important.

:goodposting:

 

I am pretty sure the polls said we would never elect anyone as unpopular as Clinton - but the polls did not factor in an opponent as unpopular as Donald Trump....

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6 hours ago, NCCommish said:
6 hours ago, [scooter] said:

Clinton is getting 8% of the Republican vote. Bernie wasn't getting that.

Bernie carries the biggest party in the country. Independents. He also crushed her with millennials.

Duuuuuuuude. Independents come in all shapes and sizes. Many of them (think Ross Perot) lean to the right. Bernie Sanders did not do as well as assumed with independent voters.

Democrats have a history of thinking that an uber-liberal candidate can somehow win over the general electorate (see: Mondale, Dukakis). You see the same thing with Republicans who actually think that guys like Ted Cruz or Ben Carson could appeal to Democrats.

Yes, Bernie is well-liked........by liberals. But translating that appeal to skeptical conservatives? I dunno.

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5 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

One of the things I like about Obama is that his administration has been relatively scandal-free.  I'm finding it rather bizarre that anybody would compare Hillary Clinton favorably to him on this score.  

There is a thread on here asking if Obama is the worst president in this country's history.  I'm not a huge Obama fan, but this is ridiculous.  I'd rather have another 8 years of Obama than 4 with either Hillary or Trump.

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Cast my write-in vote for Bernie today.  I realize that:

1. He wouldn't have wanted me to do it

2. Supporters of Clinton and Trump will claim my vote helps elect the other one

3. It was essentially a wasted vote

but I was really proud to do it.  Bernie got me to care strongly about an election that has turned in to a #### show.  This was my 7th presidential election to vote in and I had become jaded.  I had no intention of really following the primaries but he showed me that there can be ethics in politics.  He got me to shell out money to support his campaign - something I had never done.  I was all-in with Bernie during the primaries and I carried that through until today.  When I was walking back to my car I was sad - I know what the next 4-5 days will bring.  There will be more vitriol, more mud-slinging, more divisiveness and the cycle will continue.  We need more people like Sanders in politics.  Thank you Bernie.

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I'm listening to The Young Turks live stream and Cenk had a good point that Hillary has a lot to prove to progressives in order get their vote in 2020.  Progressives are generally giving Hillary a free pass based on her promises and well, Trump, but she's going to lose 4 years from now if she doesn't follow through.

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16 minutes ago, cstu said:

I'm listening to The Young Turks live stream and Cenk had a good point that Hillary has a lot to prove to progressives in order get their vote in 2020.  Progressives are generally giving Hillary a free pass based on her promises and well, Trump, but she's going to lose 4 years from now if she doesn't follow through.

Yeah, I'm sure they won't use the same tired "lesser of two evils" argument next time...

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5 minutes ago, humpback said:

Yeah, I'm sure they won't use the same tired "lesser of two evils" argument next time...

I'm all in favor of progressives helping the Republican win if she betrays her promises.  What's I've disagreed with is helping Trump win instead of giving her a chance.

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8 minutes ago, cstu said:

I'm all in favor of progressives helping the Republican win if she betrays her promises.  What's I've disagreed with is helping Trump win instead of giving her a chance.

I'm fairly certain you'll change your tune, but we both know you'd be in the extreme minority if you didn't. Bernie and progressives had a golden opportunity here, but they caved.

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30 minutes ago, humpback said:

I'm fairly certain you'll change your tune, but we both know you'd be in the extreme minority if you didn't. Bernie and progressives had a golden opportunity here, but they caved.

They did not cave - we got beat by a better political machine.  Clinton won, because she knew how to play all the back-room games necessary to win a primary, and, as it turns out, the Clinton machine also played the GOP like a fiddle - matching her with Donald ####### Trump in the general election.

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

They did not cave - we got beat by a better political machine.  Clinton won, because she knew how to play all the back-room games necessary to win a primary, and, as it turns out, the Clinton machine also played the GOP like a fiddle - matching her with Donald ####### Trump in the general election.

Also Bernie needed to get going much earlier.

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13 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

They did not cave - we got beat by a better political machine.  Clinton won, because she knew how to play all the back-room games necessary to win a primary, and, as it turns out, the Clinton machine also played the GOP like a fiddle - matching her with Donald ####### Trump in the general election.

They caved after the primary by backing "the lesser of two evils".

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Want to offer a particularly large #### you to the people who made tonight possible. We could've had Bernie ####### Sanders as our president. Enjoy president Trump.

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19 minutes ago, bud29 said:

Want to offer a particularly large #### you to the people who made tonight possible. We could've had Bernie ####### Sanders as our president. Enjoy president Trump.

I deeply disagree with Sanders's worldview, but he's a good person who I could respect and live with as president, much like Obama.  The Dems #### the bed on this one.  If Hillary wins, she's already knee-capped. If Trump wins, well, I hope it was worth it.

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CARL BIALIK 10:40 PM
Back when he was trying to win the Democratic nomination, Bernie Sanders repeatedly said he was more electable than Clinton, citing hypothetical polls pitting each of them against Trump in head-to-head matchups. There’s no way to know if Sanders’s lead would have held up if he’d won the nomination and faced the full force of opposition from Trump and the Republican Party, but some Sanders supporters must be wondering if their favored candidate would be holding up better today, considering what was perceived to be his appeal to at least some of what has become Trump’s general-election constituency.

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On 5/13/2016 at 0:29 AM, hagmania said:
On 5/11/2016 at 11:28 PM, timschochet said:
On 5/11/2016 at 11:14 PM, BassNBrew said:

Wrong.  You aren't saying you don't support a corrupt establishment.  

Actually a Trump presidency and failure gets you closer to a progressive  future than Clinton getting control of the machine for Wall Street and clearing the path for the next 2-3 decades.

A certain former infamous poster made this same argument for Barack Obama 8 years ago. He was for Obama because he wanted to see a conservative revolution in this country. 

It was an insipid, terrible argument then, and it's even worse in Trump's case. 

Umm...

If Trump wins the White House...

Welp.

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Good work, America. Had an opportunity to move pretty far into the future and to the left and instead set things back years. 

She won New Hampshire by about 4k. New Hampshire. Maybe Bernie wouldn't have won overall but I'm pretty sure he would have done better than that. 

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On 7/27/2016 at 8:06 PM, NorvilleBarnes said:

No one has yet explained to me how electing a corrupt, hawkish, donor-owned establishment pol helps the fight against corrupt, hawkish, donor-owned establishment pols.

Is it time to start bumping posts yet or is it too soon?

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