NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah and that might stick except he has been saying and fighting for the same things for 40 years. Atwater taught always attack a strength. Bernie's integrity is his strength.
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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter BigSteelThrill
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Bernie had a good night tonight,
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I think @NCCommish is right at this point that Bernie is the frontrunner, at least for now.
And it strikes me that part of this is Joe Biden’s continual refusal to commit himself to the race despite his many hints that he wants in. At some point people are going to get bored with his hesitancy; that may have already happened.
And it strikes me that part of this is Joe Biden’s continual refusal to commit himself to the race despite his many hints that he wants in. At some point people are going to get bored with his hesitancy; that may have already happened.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Did you see the townhall? Did you see him go on Fox and win the crowd? That guy can beat Trump.
adonis
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
Running against Trump is different than winning over a room. Winning over a room is a personal thing, face to face, them hearing his message.
Running against Trump is running against the Republcian machine. One that will be hammering Bernie on every level, including socialism, socialized healthcare, and Bernie can have a tendency to be professorial with all of his math which is something Trump can easily exploit.
I think Bernie was a much better choice than HIllary in 2016...but in 2020 I think there may be better differentiation available. Bernie and Trump are both old. Bernie is strongest on issues dealing with the economy, less on security. Trump has had some good economic results in his term which reduces Bernie's effectiveness there, and he also isn't strong on security issues and Trump pretends to be strong there.
Would be interesting to see a breakdown of how you see Bernie stacking up against Trump on important issues. Healthcare, economy, immigration, wealth redistribution, social programs, foreign diplomacy, Russia, etc.
NCCommish
Footballguy
How many Fox viewers do you think watched that? And every time they thought hey this doesn't sound so bad and the audience did the same do you think that stuck a bit? Made them feel less like they were wrong? I bet it did.
As to the second part I'll try to do that for you later, remind me.
adonis
Footballguy
I think it stuck, but again, it's in the absence of strong political headwinds at this point.
Look forward to seeing your thoughts on how Bernie stacks up overall, based on whatever category breakdown you want to put forward.
This guy is a joke.
It's okay to use the corrupt system to become a millionaire and own three homes...but if you use the same system to run a business and enable jobs for thousands of people and become a billionaire you are part of the problem.
Hypocrisy in its finest hour.
It's okay to use the corrupt system to become a millionaire and own three homes...but if you use the same system to run a business and enable jobs for thousands of people and become a billionaire you are part of the problem.
Hypocrisy in its finest hour.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
This is a really sharp and insightful post, a great contribution to the discourse. Excellent work.
adonis
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
um....yeah....this should get me through my meetings this afternoon...don't let me down!!! 
NCCommish
Footballguy
I try very hard not to engage with posters who make dishonest arguments these days. It's hard sometimes.um....yeah....this should get me through my meetings this afternoon...don't let me down!!!
The Commish
Footballguy
you're just part of the echo chamber NCC...you aren't foolin' anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NCCommish
Footballguy
So Bernie released his taxes. And as expected no tomfoolery just pretty boring stuff. No Cayman island accounts. No 401ks with a lot more value than they should have. Just a guy reporting income and paying whatever the rate was. He is now a very low 7 figure guy calling for tax increases on himself and those that make more. Oh and he voted against the tax cuts that benefitted him.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Pretty sure a lot of left leaning posters here dont get the echo they would like from me.
It's funny I get called everything from a commie to a right winger in the closet. I must be doing something right.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I saw something today about how this absurd anti-Bernie argument is a product of the right wing bubble. It's similar to the "AOC wants drastic action on climate change but rides around town in a minivan!" garbage.
These arguments are remarkably stupid, of course. The whole idea is that large scale collective action is needed to fix the massive problems of climate change and inequality because individual voluntary actions are irrelevant. Most people see right through this nonsense and don't take it seriously. The only people who think this is an effective line of attack are people who've been hearing it employed by the Sean Hannitys of the world and go unchallenged.
NCCommish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
He got 27 from me. And now that he has released his taxes he'll get some more. I felt it was only right to hold off until he did what we want Trump to do.A whopping 84% of the $18 million Bernie brought in came from donations of less than $200 ― the next closest candidate is Sen. Elizabeth Warren, with 70%" of her $6 million haul.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Sure, but I'm saying it's not gonna work on anyone outside the Fox News bubble. It's just so obviously silly.
NCCommish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
yeah..."echo chamber" around here is anyone who doesn't agree with Trump being labeled "left" and in squarely in the echo chamber. I share your struggle though on some things perhaps from the moderate side.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I think the only way for shenanigans to be effective is if the Third Way Centrist people come together, really right now, around one candidate. It does seem to be that support is coalescing around Pete. But it may be already too late. This is why I was saying maybe Biden waited too long because they really needed to have somebody for the weight of the establishment to get behind a couple of months ago. So we'll see
HellToupee
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
Reminds me of advice I got when I taught hs/ms out of college. It takes one idiot to disrupt the class. It takes two to make it a conversation.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Yep - still way too early to know how this is going to go. I’m pretty sure in the last month Tim has declared Harris, Biden, Buttigieg and Bernie all the front runner or favorite. It’s just too early but Bernie still resonates with me because he still comes across as genuine and caring about the people. Mayor Pete has that quality, Beto somewhat but most of the rest just have the typical politician telling me what I want to hear feel to them. Bernie doesn’t care if his message is unpopular with some people, he believes it and it shows.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
The deafening silence on Assange is a joke. Total cowardice.
Here's what a real leader looks like: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616
Here's what a real leader looks like: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
That's what doomed him in 2016. I told my daughter and son-in-law who are Sanders supporters he wouldn't win the nomination because he waited to long to go after the black vote in the south.
HellToupee
Footballguy
https://youtu.be/QMyrChsBG68
I was infatuated with Bernie but after this he’s dead to me. He was so out there and seemed genuine I really thought he could be a difference.. Disgusted
I was infatuated with Bernie but after this he’s dead to me. He was so out there and seemed genuine I really thought he could be a difference.. Disgusted
GROOT
Footballguy
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Meh, it really wasn't that big a gaffe. He elaborated, rationalized it, and didn't stumble in any of it. I think it's a fair viewpoint and can see the "slippery slope" he brings up.
CNN going for the emotional appeal in their choice of prisoners as mentioned in the question is just what the Democrats do best. It's part of why we actually have Trump in fact.
CNN going for the emotional appeal in their choice of prisoners as mentioned in the question is just what the Democrats do best. It's part of why we actually have Trump in fact.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Really don't care for Bernie at all, but that seems like a smear question. Are people who support voting rights for incarcerated people supposed to carve out a section for unpopular criminals? CNN stacking the audience again?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"I disapprove of who you killed, but I will defend to the death your right to vote."
We should be applauding a person for sticking to his principles instead of going for the easy applause.
We should be applauding a person for sticking to his principles instead of going for the easy applause.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I can see people having a problem with his answer. Though, he elaborated well. Id say, in a way its similar to debates on gun control with the slippery slope.
I happen to disagree with him on felons just as I do with those who have issues on gun control. I think there are practical ways to say...for this crime, or for this instances of issues...this person shouldn't vote or this person shouldn't own a gun. That when you commit certain acts or exhibit certain behavior (but it must be well defined), you give up those rights. He says they are in jail and that is their punishment...well perhaps giving up the right to vote is as well? I bring up guns because Im trying to be consistent with the message. You will have people that say Bernie's answer is terrible...but when talking about something similar with gun control will claim you are infringing on rights.
I also don't think its the suicide some thing...were there any voting for or supporting him that are so on the other side of this that they will be against him now?
I happen to disagree with him on felons just as I do with those who have issues on gun control. I think there are practical ways to say...for this crime, or for this instances of issues...this person shouldn't vote or this person shouldn't own a gun. That when you commit certain acts or exhibit certain behavior (but it must be well defined), you give up those rights. He says they are in jail and that is their punishment...well perhaps giving up the right to vote is as well? I bring up guns because Im trying to be consistent with the message. You will have people that say Bernie's answer is terrible...but when talking about something similar with gun control will claim you are infringing on rights.
I also don't think its the suicide some thing...were there any voting for or supporting him that are so on the other side of this that they will be against him now?
Franknbeans
Footballguy
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