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New CBS/YouGOV polls put Sanders ahead in Iowa and New Hampshire - but the most interesting result may be South Carolina

Clinton: 60

Sanders: 38

Clinton is +22, but the same poll a month ago had Clinton +36 (and she was +47 in November). Sanders has made up 14 points - without the benefit of real momentum generated if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire.

If Bernie wins Iowa and NH, SC becomes a must win for Clinton. I think it is unlikely she would lose SC, bur if she did it would be over.

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I'm more inspired by the Nevada poll that shows her under 50%, because my contention is that her current numbers in any given state are pretty much her ceiling - what new voters will she be attracting? But if she's still over 60% in SC, to me she looks pretty safe there.

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Quick note - as I've said before, I genuinely believe the campaigns have much more up to date and accurate polling info than the media. So Hillary's ongoing full court media blitz, combined with the increased negative attacks from her surrogates, combine to make me think her own numbers are showing serious danger in Iowa

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Quick note - as I've said before, I genuinely believe the campaigns have much more up to date and accurate polling info than the media. So Hillary's ongoing full court media blitz, combined with the increased negative attacks from her surrogates, combine to make me think her own numbers are showing serious danger in Iowa

I think Iowa will come down to two things: turnout, and location.

High turn out, means new caucus goers, and Bernie is dominating in that demographic. But, Bernie's overall support may be disguised in large pockets of supporters in college towns. If Clinton can capture the delegates in rural parts of the state, she will come out of Iowa with as many (or more) delegates - and delegates matter more than actual vote totals. I imagine at this stage, both candidates are doing their best delegate math to figure out how to best maximize delegate counts.

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I know people are angry and many are glad that he's attacking the rich, but I personally would prefer a much less divisive approach (like FDR's, ironically).

Less divisive? Like Hillary, Trump and Cruz?
No idea how you came up with that- did I misspell FDR?
FDR is in this election? I'd vote for him for sure.

You guys are on a roll.

Just giving my opinion on his approach. I respect him for his honesty and agree with some of his points but IMO the vilification is unnecessary (and counterproductive). I know others eat it up- different strokes and all that.

I think the point being made is that while you might prefer that Bernie take a less divisive approach (is that even possible these days), he is BY FAR the least divisive candidate in this current election with any real shot at the job.

That point is moot because I'm not voting for any of those candidates either. IMO Bernie was unique in that he could attract a decent number of voters (like myself) who don't necessarily agree with his positions but want to inject a dose of ethics and integrity into the system.

Yes, of course it's possible to be less divisive. You can make a very reasonable argument about things like wealth/income inequality, on both economic and moral grounds, without constantly spitting vitriol at the wealthy. I think it's going to hurt him if he gets the nomination, not all that unlike how it hurts the GOP when they veer so far to the right during the nomination process.

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I suspect they let in folks from other towns.

No, I heard there were road blocks set-up, and ID checks made of anyone trying to enter the venue. You had to produce two forms of ID just to get within a block, and then at the door, the mayor had to personally vouch that he knew the person.

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Paul Krugman is a good economist, but he is always a partisan democrat first

He's a political hack. As an economist he should know that teh unemployment rate, as its measured doesn't reflect the the true employment picture, but he keeps coming back to it as definitive....

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Will Bernie be good or bad for 401Ks?

If Bernie wins who needs a 401. Free health insurance, free college, I bet he even brings back the free goverment cheese. If he wins I can,t wait to get on the Sanders budget. I bet we could write a song about it and it would be a hit.

Statements like the bold are beyond merely frustrating to me. People have had their heads buried in the sand for so long re. health care they simply refuse to think honestly about it.

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We have to do better than the crop before us on both sides. I have never been this disengaged in my voting life than with the set of candidates we have.

It's downright awful this election year.

Interesting, but incredibly blind. Their are huge swaths of the American public more interested and more invested in this election than in any other in decades. Trump and Sanders are both so far out of the recent historical "mainstream" it makes your statement laughable on its face

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We have to do better than the crop before us on both sides. I have never been this disengaged in my voting life than with the set of candidates we have.

It's downright awful this election year.

Interesting, but incredibly blind. Their are huge swaths of the American public more interested and more invested in this election than in any other in decades. Trump and Sanders are both so far out of the recent historical "mainstream" it makes your statement laughable on its face
How can you say it is laughable? This years candidates are not good. Not that they ever are, but the fact that if I was forced to vote this year, I would vote for Bernie Sanders is pretty telling. I couldn't disagree more with his views on taxation and spending, but the alternatives are just awful in so many other areas.
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We have to do better than the crop before us on both sides. I have never been this disengaged in my voting life than with the set of candidates we have.

It's downright awful this election year.

Interesting, but incredibly blind. Their are huge swaths of the American public more interested and more invested in this election than in any other in decades. Trump and Sanders are both so far out of the recent historical "mainstream" it makes your statement laughable on its face

What's laughable about being disheartened with the current crop of candidates? It's not that the candidates aren't "fresh" or "non-mainstream". It's that they're terrible, in his reckoning and that of so many others.

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

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We have to do better than the crop before us on both sides. I have never been this disengaged in my voting life than with the set of candidates we have.

It's downright awful this election year.

Interesting, but incredibly blind. Their are huge swaths of the American public more interested and more invested in this election than in any other in decades. Trump and Sanders are both so far out of the recent historical "mainstream" it makes your statement laughable on its face
How can you say it is laughable? This years candidates are not good. Not that they ever are, but the fact that if I was forced to vote this year, I would vote for Bernie Sanders is pretty telling. I couldn't disagree more with his views on taxation and spending, but the alternatives are just awful in so many other areas.

Disliking the guys out of the mainstream <> disengaged

It's been DECADES since we had candidates so far from "center" that had legit chances to win. You might not like them, but the populace is more "engaged" then it has been in nearly a century, and pretending otherwise based on your personal distaste is just silly

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I get legitimately disgusted and angry with anyone who attempts to argue that the current status quo in healthcare is a superior option to the overwhelming majority of single payer systems in the world today. The myth of our "great" health care system is the single greatest sham perpetuated on the American people by our elite in the history of this country.

EIGHTEEN @#%^# PERCENT!!!!! When you include medicare tax with current insurance premium and throw in copays the middle class is being slaughtered with health care expense already. (I'll hit 30% easily this year)

The poor get treated in the hospital now when sick enough and the costs get passed on. I see DKA patients every day admitted to the ICU at a cost of thousands for lack of the ability to pay hundreds for a drug that costs only a few dollars to make. We crush their credit with bills they can never pay further burying them in poverty. It's asinine and their is no reasonable argument to defend a system that perpetuates this pattern.

This is the only industrialized nation on the planet where a serious illness or accident can DIRECTLY cause bankruptcy, while medical supply companies and big pharm rake in tens of billions in profit.

That's well beyond disgusting and it needs to change. Capitalism is great for luxuries and amenities..it's not the answer for everything, and certainly not for healthcare.

We need universal health care.

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I get legitimately disgusted and angry with anyone who attempts to argue that the current status quo in healthcare is a superior option to the overwhelming majority of single payer systems in the world today. The myth of our "great" health care system is the single greatest sham perpetuated on the American people by our elite in the history of this country.

EIGHTEEN @#%^# PERCENT!!!!! When you include medicare tax with current insurance premium and throw in copays the middle class is being slaughtered with health care expense already. (I'll hit 30% easily this year)

The poor get treated in the hospital now when sick enough and the costs get passed on. I see DKA patients every day admitted to the ICU at a cost of thousands for lack of the ability to pay hundreds for a drug that costs only a few dollars to make. We crush their credit with bills they can never pay further burying them in poverty. It's asinine and their is no reasonable argument to defend a system that perpetuates this pattern.

This is the only industrialized nation on the planet where a serious illness or accident can DIRECTLY cause bankruptcy, while medical supply companies and big pharm rake in tens of billions in profit.

That's well beyond disgusting and it needs to change. Capitalism is great for luxuries and amenities..it's not the answer for everything, and certainly not for healthcare.

We need universal health care.

but look at what happened to the VA?!@~!@~!?@~!@~!?

;)

right on brudda

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Bernie Sanders Gets Group Endorsements When Members Decide; Hillary Clinton When Leaders Decide

In the war for endorsements in the Democratic presidential primary, there is a clear trend.

Every major union or progressive organization that let its members have a vote endorsed Bernie Sanders.

Meanwhile, all of Hillary Clinton’s major group endorsements come from organizations where the leaders decide. And several of those endorsements were accompanied by criticisms from members about the lack of a democratic process.

...

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/22/bernie-sanders-gets-group-endorsements-when-members-decide-hillary-clinton-when-leaders-decide/

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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General question on Bernie's Iraq war vote

from his speech

If a unilateral American invasion of Iraq is not the best approach, what should we do? In my view, the U.S. must work with the United Nations to make certain within clearly defined timelines that the U.N. inspectors are allowed to do their jobs. These inspectors should undertake an unfettered search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and destroy them when found, pursuant to past U.N. resolutions. If Iraq resists inspection and elimination of stockpiled weapons, we should stand ready to assist the U.N. in forcing compliance.

given that Iraq had not been very cooperative with inspectors in the past an not terribly cooperative with 10 UN resolutions, at some point would "forcing compliance" have been necessary?

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Bernie Sanders Gets Group Endorsements When Members Decide; Hillary Clinton When Leaders Decide

In the war for endorsements in the Democratic presidential primary, there is a clear trend.

Every major union or progressive organization that let its members have a vote endorsed Bernie Sanders.

Meanwhile, all of Hillary Clinton’s major group endorsements come from organizations where the leaders decide. And several of those endorsements were accompanied by criticisms from members about the lack of a democratic process.

...

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/22/bernie-sanders-gets-group-endorsements-when-members-decide-hillary-clinton-when-leaders-decide/

Pretty much his campaign in a nutshell. Leadership had it's chance to lead.

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I've worked in healthcare for more than 15 years, and can tell you that it won't work. The VA system is a failure and has been so for many years. I've seen it firsthand with one year plus waits for colonoscopies, heart patients who get cardiac catherization but cannot get any intervention because the hospital doesn't have cardiac bypass capabilities, so they then were sent 6+ hours away for cardiac bypass, and patients who have to ride in vans from 3+ hours away to be seen by a specialist though one practiced in their hometown. I've also known Canadians who were on wait lists to get heart surgery and opted to come to the US for their procedures. And on and on. It's rationing of healthcare and it is not what we want. It sounds magical to those who are ill-informed, but would be a disaster. I know that the current system has many flaws but this honestly is not the answer.

Edited by Ketamine Dreams
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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I've worked in healthcare for more than 15 years, and can tell you that it won't work. The VA system is a failure and has been so for many years. I've seen it firsthand with one year plus waits for colonoscopies, heart patients who get cardiac catherization but cannot get any intervention because the hospital doesn't have cardiac bypass capabilities, so they then were sent 6+ hours away for cardiac bypass, and patients who have to ride in vans from 3+ hours away to be seen by a specialist though one practiced in their hometown. I've also known Canadians who were on wait lists to get heart surgery and opted to come to the US for their procedures. And on and on. It's rationing of healthcare and it is not what we want. It sounds magical to those who are ill-informed, but would be a disaster. I know that the current system has many flaws but this honestly is not the answer.

This explains the deafening uproar in Canada from citizens espousing change to an American style health care system.

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The lawyer for the family of Walter L. Scott, who was fatally shot by a police officer in South Carolina, is withdrawing his support from Hillary Clinton and endorsing Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont on Monday afternoon.

The lawyer, State Representative Justin T. Bamberg of South Carolina, said he is switching sides because he believes Mrs. Clinton embodies establishment politics, while Mr. Sanders offers a bolder platform that will improve the lives of people in the South and across the country. The endorsement could help Mr. Sanders as he tries to win more support from black voters — especially in South Carolina — in the series of southern states that hold contests after Iowa and New Hampshire, where he is well positioned.

Firewall is showing some cracks...

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I've worked in healthcare for more than 15 years, and can tell you that it won't work. The VA system is a failure and has been so for many years. I've seen it firsthand with one year plus waits for colonoscopies, heart patients who get cardiac catherization but cannot get any intervention because the hospital doesn't have cardiac bypass capabilities, so they then were sent 6+ hours away for cardiac bypass, and patients who have to ride in vans from 3+ hours away to be seen by a specialist though one practiced in their hometown. I've also known Canadians who were on wait lists to get heart surgery and opted to come to the US for their procedures. And on and on. It's rationing of healthcare and it is not what we want. It sounds magical to those who are ill-informed, but would be a disaster. I know that the current system has many flaws but this honestly is not the answer.

This explains the deafening uproar in Canada from citizens espousing change to an American style health care system.

Also explains the overwhelming victory in parliament for the Liberal Party of Canada, er, no, wait...

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The lawyer for the family of Walter L. Scott, who was fatally shot by a police officer in South Carolina, is withdrawing his support from Hillary Clinton and endorsing Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont on Monday afternoon.

The lawyer, State Representative Justin T. Bamberg of South Carolina, said he is switching sides because he believes Mrs. Clinton embodies establishment politics, while Mr. Sanders offers a bolder platform that will improve the lives of people in the South and across the country. The endorsement could help Mr. Sanders as he tries to win more support from black voters — especially in South Carolina — in the series of southern states that hold contests after Iowa and New Hampshire, where he is well positioned.

Firewall is showing some cracks...

They made that message loud and clear here in York County when the three were here, but I haven't made much of a deal of it because I don't know the feeling in Columbia and Charleston areas. If those two mirror the attitude here, then Hillary is going to blow it in SC, which shouldn't be possible.

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True life politics dirty trick story - calling NH voters during the Super Bowl when the Patriots were in the game and implying that the calls were coming from a rival campaign.

"Hi, I'm calling to discuss the Presidential candidacy of RIVAL'S NAME, and wonder if you have a few minutes to talk."

Almost always resulted in an immediate hang up. Doubt it made any difference, but it was fun to do.

DISCLAIMER: We all know Bernie would never stoop to such tactics, and my support of his campaign has helped me renounce my former ways.

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FDR could be pretty devise too. Curious what Bernie statements some feel are over the line.

Best I can tell, it's his comments around breaking up the large banking corporations and breaking the bond between big business and the government.

Or, it could be what I've said, which is the over the top rhetoric about corporations and Wall Street's never-ending greed is destroying the lives of millions of American's. Stuff like that.

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This sounds like a familiar refrain:

When Mr. Bamberg first endorsed Mrs. Clinton, he did not know much about Mr. Sanders, he said. He spent the last few weeks learning about the senator and listening to him speak during debates and events.

“I don’t think I gave Senator Sanders his fair shake,” Mr. Bamberg said.

The Clinton campaign did not immediately respond to word of the endorsement.

Mr. Bamberg said he eventually decided to support Mr. Sanders after the two men spoke for 20 minutes last week on Martin Luther King’s Birthday about the shooting death of Mr. Scott. They also discussed Mr. Sanders’s plans for criminal justice reform, for creating new policies for police departments and about the struggles of working-class people.

“What I got from him was not a presidential candidate talking to a state representative, or an old white man talking to a young black guy,” Mr. Bamberg said. “What I got from him was a man talking to a man about things that they are passionate about, and that was the tipping point for me.”

Did not know much about him -> Learned about him -> Found him to be authentic -> supported him.

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FDR could be pretty devise too. Curious what Bernie statements some feel are over the line.

Best I can tell, it's his comments around breaking up the large banking corporations and breaking the bond between big business and the government.

FDR could be pretty devise too. Curious what Bernie statements some feel are over the line.

Best I can tell, it's his comments around breaking up the large banking corporations and breaking the bond between big business and the government.

Right, but that stuff is right out of FDR's playbook

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I've worked in healthcare for more than 15 years, and can tell you that it won't work. The VA system is a failure and has been so for many years. I've seen it firsthand with one year plus waits for colonoscopies, heart patients who get cardiac catherization but cannot get any intervention because the hospital doesn't have cardiac bypass capabilities, so they then were sent 6+ hours away for cardiac bypass, and patients who have to ride in vans from 3+ hours away to be seen by a specialist though one practiced in their hometown. I've also known Canadians who were on wait lists to get heart surgery and opted to come to the US for their procedures. And on and on. It's rationing of healthcare and it is not what we want. It sounds magical to those who are ill-informed, but would be a disaster. I know that the current system has many flaws but this honestly is not the answer.

This explains the deafening uproar in Canada from citizens espousing change to an American style health care system.

I guess you'd prefer to wait months for your heart bypass when you have multi vessel cardiac disease instead of mere hours. Carry on...

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I get legitimately disgusted and angry with anyone who attempts to argue that the current status quo in healthcare is a superior option to the overwhelming majority of single payer systems in the world today. The myth of our "great" health care system is the single greatest sham perpetuated on the American people by our elite in the history of this country.

EIGHTEEN @#%^# PERCENT!!!!! When you include medicare tax with current insurance premium and throw in copays the middle class is being slaughtered with health care expense already. (I'll hit 30% easily this year)

The poor get treated in the hospital now when sick enough and the costs get passed on. I see DKA patients every day admitted to the ICU at a cost of thousands for lack of the ability to pay hundreds for a drug that costs only a few dollars to make. We crush their credit with bills they can never pay further burying them in poverty. It's asinine and their is no reasonable argument to defend a system that perpetuates this pattern.

This is the only industrialized nation on the planet where a serious illness or accident can DIRECTLY cause bankruptcy, while medical supply companies and big pharm rake in tens of billions in profit.

That's well beyond disgusting and it needs to change. Capitalism is great for luxuries and amenities..it's not the answer for everything, and certainly not for healthcare.

We need universal health care.

but look at what happened to the VA?!@~!@~!?@~!@~!?

;)

right on brudda

You laugh, but a "VA" style healthcare system is what we'll get if we go to single payer. It's a shame how woeful our care of veterans is.

Read up on it, the VA style healthcare system is pretty freaking horrible.

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I've worked in healthcare for more than 15 years, and can tell you that it won't work. The VA system is a failure and has been so for many years. I've seen it firsthand with one year plus waits for colonoscopies, heart patients who get cardiac catherization but cannot get any intervention because the hospital doesn't have cardiac bypass capabilities, so they then were sent 6+ hours away for cardiac bypass, and patients who have to ride in vans from 3+ hours away to be seen by a specialist though one practiced in their hometown. I've also known Canadians who were on wait lists to get heart surgery and opted to come to the US for their procedures. And on and on. It's rationing of healthcare and it is not what we want. It sounds magical to those who are ill-informed, but would be a disaster. I know that the current system has many flaws but this honestly is not the answer.

Im in health care too...and what we have now is already a disaster. Canada is not the only model out thre, ad it's also one of the newest, still recovering from it's growing pains. Besides, we already have the infrastructure

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Ugh, I hope nobody actually believes this. Unless you want to see rationing of care with its eternal waiting lists, lack of accountability, and lack of incentives to actually produce results. This is, in essence, asking for socialized medicine akin to the VA system, which is an absolute failure.

Lots of us believe this. Hundreds of millions of Europeans believe this. Canadians believe this. Maybe the people who don't believe this need to re-examine their beliefs.

I get legitimately disgusted and angry with anyone who attempts to argue that the current status quo in healthcare is a superior option to the overwhelming majority of single payer systems in the world today. The myth of our "great" health care system is the single greatest sham perpetuated on the American people by our elite in the history of this country.

EIGHTEEN @#%^# PERCENT!!!!! When you include medicare tax with current insurance premium and throw in copays the middle class is being slaughtered with health care expense already. (I'll hit 30% easily this year)

The poor get treated in the hospital now when sick enough and the costs get passed on. I see DKA patients every day admitted to the ICU at a cost of thousands for lack of the ability to pay hundreds for a drug that costs only a few dollars to make. We crush their credit with bills they can never pay further burying them in poverty. It's asinine and their is no reasonable argument to defend a system that perpetuates this pattern.

This is the only industrialized nation on the planet where a serious illness or accident can DIRECTLY cause bankruptcy, while medical supply companies and big pharm rake in tens of billions in profit.

That's well beyond disgusting and it needs to change. Capitalism is great for luxuries and amenities..it's not the answer for everything, and certainly not for healthcare.

We need universal health care.

but look at what happened to the VA?!@~!@~!?@~!@~!?

;)

right on brudda

You laugh, but a "VA" style healthcare system is what we'll get if we go to single payer. It's a shame how woeful our care of veterans is.

Read up on it, the VA style healthcare system is pretty freaking horrible.

You're right, but it's not even remotely the same comparison, nor would anyone remotely suggest the VA as a model for universal coverage

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