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QB Dak Prescott, DAL (4 Viewers)

If Dak thinks he has been disrespected, then the little bit of success this former 4th round pick has managed has really gone to his head.  I get wanting to get paid, but his asking price is crazy, and the Cowboys are just as crazy if they pay him what is asking (or close to it).   They managed one playoff win over four seasons of Prescott not making a lot (by NFL standards), and they think they will get better if they pay him 30+ million a year?? :lol:  

 
I hope he gets it.  Dallas will be stuck with that loser contract for a long, long time.  Good for the rest of the NFC Least.

 
Ghost Rider said:
If Dak thinks he has been disrespected, then the little bit of success this former 4th round pick has managed has really gone to his head.  I get wanting to get paid, but his asking price is crazy, and the Cowboys are just as crazy if they pay him what is asking (or close to it).   They managed one playoff win over four seasons of Prescott not making a lot (by NFL standards), and they think they will get better if they pay him 30+ million a year?? :lol:  
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I'm not sure what round he was drafted in has to do with anything, but if not for the DWI a couple months before the draft, he would have been a 2nd rounder and even possibly drafted before Paxton Lunch.  He's had a better career this far than Goff and Wentz.  He's well within his right to get paid what's coming to him based on those guys contracts.  Both of who were overpaid.

 
Shawnky said:
When has he been a loser?  History tells a different story.  I seriously don't get the hate for this guy.  He's not elite, but he's far from a loser.
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I didn't say he's a loser.  Far from it.  I said it's a loser of a contract.   He is an above average QB.  Maybe a tick up from Kirk Cousins.   $26-29m.  that's the number (IMO) for a QB that hasn't even made it to a SB despite having a ton of talent around him.  $33M is overpaying.  It's what DET has done with Stafford, and ATL with Ryan.  those guys are probably better QBs than Dak.  But paying them too much makes the rest  of the team worse and takes the overall roster on a slow downward spiral.

 
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I stay our of contract/CBA stuff, but Skip had mentioned that the cap looks like it could increase up to 40% in the very near future, which means Dak's contarct would be peanuts in the grand scheme of things (and future contracts to come)

40% seems high, but again, I dont know.

he's not worth it to me, but he might be worth that to the 'boys...

 
The people who think he isn't worth it - I'd like to know who you think is a better fit to wear the star? It's the most scrutinized position in all of sports and thats no hyperbole. After Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers and Brees, who's better? 

IMO the Cowboys are playing this the right way. They are sticking to their guns and doing what they have been doing for the better part of a decade, building from the inside out, not overpaying everyone, grabbing a few FA risks on the second wave of FA and it's been working. 

I'm Daks biggest fan and I'm starting to get annoyed at his demands. I am of the opinion that being the QB of the Cowboys also nets him incredible side money and future earnings. If he was in Cincinnati he wouldn't have earned much more than his exiting contract. In Dallas hes been able to make in excess of 50 million every year off the field. If he is seriously asking for 40 million a year or anything close, I think he's being incredibly short sighted and selfish, imo. The jones' are correct, it isn't their  (Jerry or Stephen's) money, its the Cowboys' player's money. They are going to spend as much as the NFL will allow, it justs up to them how who they give it to and the amount of good players they can give it to.  

 
The problems with the Cowboys offense under Dak has more to do with the predictability of the offense than deficiencies with Dak. If the Cowboys do re-sign him, and McCarthy adds some different wrinkles to the Cowboy offense, then I think we could see Dak flourish. Remember in 2016, if not for a ridiculous throw by Aaron Rodgers in the divisional playoff game, the Cowboys would have gone to overtime with a reasonable chance to win. They would've hosted Atlanta in the NFC championship game. That one play potentially changed the whole script of how we view Dak. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
The people who think he isn't worth it - I'd like to know who you think is a better fit to wear the star? It's the most scrutinized position in all of sports and thats no hyperbole. After Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers and Brees, who's better?  
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Tom Brady (on the decline, but still better than Dak)

Matt Ryan

Carson Wentz (durability is an issue, but there’s no question that he’s better than Dak)

And there is an argument for another handful, but those three are certainly better. 

 
As to how much the Cowboys should be willing to pay Dak, I think the error of overpaying him is greatly mitigated by the fact that his deal will be signed at a time when it looks like the Cap will increase significantly over the life of the contract. I don't think it will significantly hamper the Cowboy's abilities to sign their own players or sign free agents. On the flip side, if they decide to move on from Dak, who plays Qb for the Cowboys? Brady? At his age and under a new offense will he be an upgrade? Tannehill? No guarantee of an upgrade there. Bridgewater? Maybe an upgrade, but a lot of uncertainty as he hasn't been a long term starter.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Tom Brady (on the decline, but still better than Dak)

Matt Ryan

Carson Wentz (durability is an issue, but there’s no question that he’s better than Dak)

And there is an argument for another handful, but those three are certainly better. 
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Get ready for blowback on that statement

 
dhockster said:
Get ready for blowback on that statement
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That’s fine. Dak is more durable than a Wentz, and durability is certainly important, but Wentz is better in almost every other area. What he did in 2019 with utter trash at WR was pretty awesome. 

I’d also put DeSean Watson ahead of Dak for sure, although I don’t see him having a long career. He takes too many hard shots. 

 
Brunell4MVP said:
I didn't say he's a loser.  Far from it.  I said it's a loser of a contract.   He is an above average QB.  Maybe a tick up from Kirk Cousins.   $26-29m.  that's the number (IMO) for a QB that hasn't even made it to a SB despite having a ton of talent around him.  $33M is overpaying.  It's what DET has done with Stafford, and ATL with Ryan.  those guys are probably better QBs than Dak.  But paying them too much makes the rest  of the team worse and takes the overall roster on a slow downward spiral.
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My fault.  But when you think about it, numerous teams in the league have the same issue.

 
Ghost Rider said:
That’s fine. Dak is more durable than a Wentz, and durability is certainly important, but Wentz is better in almost every other area. What he did in 2019 with utter trash at WR was pretty awesome. 

I’d also put DeSean Watson ahead of Dak for sure, although I don’t see him having a long career. He takes too many hard shots. 
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I think Deshaun will be okay. After getting broken ribs against Dallas two years ago when he thought it was a good idea to take on LB's at the goalline, Deshaun has protected himself a lot better since then. Also the Texans added 3 young lineman last year and their protection was better. In theory it should be even better this year, but with Bill O'Brien in charge nothing is guaranteed.

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Different philosophies. You thought Dez Bryant was a good receiver. People see different things. 
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Dez was good for a few years.

He fell off a cliff fast.

I see that the Cowboys went 8-8 last year with a high end supporting cast.  What is most concerning is the poor play against good teams. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Tom Brady (on the decline, but still better than Dak)

Matt Ryan

Carson Wentz (durability is an issue, but there’s no question that he’s better than Dak)

And there is an argument for another handful, but those three are certainly better. 
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Sweet! So what you’re saying is that a 6 time Superbowl winner, a former league MVP and shoulda coulda woulda super bowl winner, and a number 1, number 1 are better than Dak? 
 

Sweet. Are all those guys available, cheaper and more durable? Cause that would be awesome. 

 
Ack88 said:
I hate the Eagles but I'd take Wentz over Dak easily.
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Liking a malcontent moron like Dez and an injury prone aloof hillbilly QB are two reasons I don’t want you running my team. You’re philosophy is the Romo years. I’ll take what they’ve been doing the past 5-6 years over that mess, thanks. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
The people who think he isn't worth it - I'd like to know who you think is a better fit to wear the star? It's the most scrutinized position in all of sports and thats no hyperbole. After Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers and Brees, who's better? 

IMO the Cowboys are playing this the right way. They are sticking to their guns and doing what they have been doing for the better part of a decade, building from the inside out, not overpaying everyone, grabbing a few FA risks on the second wave of FA and it's been working. 

I'm Daks biggest fan and I'm starting to get annoyed at his demands. I am of the opinion that being the QB of the Cowboys also nets him incredible side money and future earnings. If he was in Cincinnati he wouldn't have earned much more than his exiting contract. In Dallas hes been able to make in excess of 50 million every year off the field. If he is seriously asking for 40 million a year or anything close, I think he's being incredibly short sighted and selfish, imo. The jones' are correct, it isn't their  (Jerry or Stephen's) money, its the Cowboys' player's money. They are going to spend as much as the NFL will allow, it justs up to them how who they give it to and the amount of good players they can give it to.  
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Per this article Dallas has spent the least amount of money on payroll the past 4 years

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-cowboys-have-spent-the-least-on-payroll-since-2016-why-cash-trumps-cap-new-cba-and-more/ 

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Sweet! So what you’re saying is that a 6 time Superbowl winner, a former league MVP and shoulda coulda woulda super bowl winner, and a number 1, number 1 are better than Dak? 
 

Sweet. Are all those guys available, cheaper and more durable? Cause that would be awesome. 
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That wasn’t what I addressed. You asked what QB’s were better than Dak besides Mahomes, Wilson, Brees and Rodgers, and I told you my choices. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Exactly. Theyve done that so they will have money for guys when they need it. Now isnt the time to blow everything on a couple players. 
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This is exactly what they have been hoarding for.  Dak is unquestionably going to get the richest contract in league history, the Cowboys are simply trying to wait out the NFLPA vote so they are certain that their preferred CBA is in place.

 
Ghost Rider said:
That wasn’t what I addressed. You asked what QB’s were better than Dak besides Mahomes, Wilson, Brees and Rodgers, and I told you my choices. 
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Right. I'd argue against all three but my counterpoint was you're comparing apples to oranges. Dak is going into his 5th year. With the exception of Wentz, who has yet to actually complete a full season, the other guys have been in the league for a decade longer. If you factor in age, you woudnt pick those guys over Dak if you were stating a team today. If you would, I want to play in your division. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Right. I'd argue against all three but my counterpoint was you're comparing apples to oranges. Dak is going into his 5th year. With the exception of Wentz, who has yet to actually complete a full season, the other guys have been in the league for a decade longer. If you factor in age, you woudnt pick those guys over Dak if you were stating a team today. If you would, I want to play in your division. 
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Not sure I agree.   Matt Ryan is only 34 and as a pocket passer who doesn't take many big shots, he can probably play for another 5+ years, and Ryan at his best is far better than Dak has ever been.  

Look, Dak is a good QB. I get it. But he is not great, and the minute Dallas gives him the big contract, and they will sooner rather than later, their tinny tiny chances of making a deep playoff run will evaporate.  The reason these QB's who are merely good keep getting big contracts is that teams would rather overpay a good QB and hope they get everything else right than end up in QB hell, like, for example, the Broncos have been in mostly since Peyton's retirement (jury is still out on Drew Lock).  When you have a below average QB situation, it is very difficult to have continued success from year to year.  With a good QB, even one you are vastly overpaying, you at least have a shot to catch lightning with everything else and make a run, so, again, I get it.  Just don't tell me that Dak is an elite or top 6-7 NFL QB because he simply isn't. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Right. I'd argue against all three but my counterpoint was you're comparing apples to oranges. Dak is going into his 5th year. With the exception of Wentz, who has yet to actually complete a full season, the other guys have been in the league for a decade longer. If you factor in age, you woudnt pick those guys over Dak if you were stating a team today. If you would, I want to play in your division. 
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Watch what happens to Dak when they give him all the money they should spend keeping that OLine.

 
Dr. Dan said:
they cant pay everyone... obviously, but some of their OL are approaching 30... and their third contract... is it worth it then? As a GB fan I'd say 100% no as I can think of 4 OL off the top of my head who were excellent, we cut bait at a later age, and they failed on their next team

It could be a good business decision to not resign some of their OL
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Just sayin.. Dak isn't a "franchise QB".  He is a servicable QB on an incredibly stacked offensive team... starting with the OL.  If his salary becomes the reason they have to let stud linemen go, he is going to be exposed imo.

He isn't a great thrower of the football.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Not sure I agree.   Matt Ryan is only 34 and as a pocket passer who doesn't take many big shots, he can probably play for another 5+ years, and Ryan at his best is far better than Dak has ever been.  

Look, Dak is a good QB. I get it. But he is not great, and the minute Dallas gives him the big contract, and they will sooner rather than later, their tinny tiny chances of making a deep playoff run will evaporate.  The reason these QB's who are merely good keep getting big contracts is that teams would rather overpay a good QB and hope they get everything else right than end up in QB hell, like, for example, the Broncos have been in mostly since Peyton's retirement (jury is still out on Drew Lock).  When you have a below average QB situation, it is very difficult to have continued success from year to year.  With a good QB, even one you are vastly overpaying, you at least have a shot to catch lightning with everything else and make a run, so, again, I get it.  Just don't tell me that Dak is an elite or top 6-7 NFL QB because he simply isn't. 
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Timing is everything. Dak is a free agent at the right time. There aren’t any better free agent options at QB available so he is going to get paid a lot of money.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Exactly. Theyve done that so they will have money for guys when they need it. Now isnt the time to blow everything on a couple players. 
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Sure but it doesn’t give with your statement that...

“They are going to spend as much as the NFL will allow, it justs up to them how who they give it to and the amount of good players they can give it to.”  

 
Yenrub said:
Sure but it doesn’t give with your statement that...

“They are going to spend as much as the NFL will allow, it justs up to them how who they give it to and the amount of good players they can give it to.”  
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But they are/will. They were setting themselves up to pay for these players. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Liking a malcontent moron like Dez and an injury prone aloof hillbilly QB are two reasons I don’t want you running my team. You’re philosophy is the Romo years. I’ll take what they’ve been doing the past 5-6 years over that mess, thanks. 
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You mean losing big games, right? The results under Dak in the playoffs are the same as they were under Romo. Sorry bud- you can try and masquerade that Dak is something other than average, but the results in meaningful games tell a different story. While stylistically dissimilar, Dak and Romo are stat compilers who’s big game and playoff results are underwhelming.

BTW- if you are referring to my avatar, that is Michael Irvin- a true gamer and warrior, who ACTUALLY WON SOMETHING.

 
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Ack88 said:
Dak is not close to being what Wilson is.
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This is what I was implying. Big QB contracts can certainly "break" teams but at least Wilson's skillset compensates for some of the deficiencies around him. If people don't think Dak can do that, Dallas is going to double down on the misery when they pay him and the supporting cast diminishes.

 
Dr. Dan said:
I remember calling that scenario following Wilson's contract. I got a lot of grief for it from Seattle fans

I can see the same happening with Dak and the Cowboys if they pay up. 
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Wilson just signed the new deal prior the 2019 season

 
Dr. Dan said:
He signed a 4 year extension 4 years ago... shortly after their superbowl win, which is exactly what we are talking about. 
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Ah ok that contract. They have been to the Super Bowl since he signed that contract and been to the playoffs 5 of the 6 seasons since he signed it correct?

 
Dr. Dan said:
Sure. But the issue isnt winning seasons or playoff appearances... it's Super Bowl wins. They did make it back since that contract, but as that contract has matured and his cap number grows, it becomes harder and harder to keep talent around him. 

We see this all over the league. The best thing a team can do is hope to strike on a rookie, win a superbowl or two, then discard him and start over. Once you sign a vet contract it becomes much harder to return... generally speaking....  unless you are NE getting a discount... and cheating. 

You cant keep everyone. It's a mistake to pay Dak 30 million a season. 
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In the 9 years since the rookie salary restrictions were put in place, how many teams have won Super Bowls with their QB on rookie deals? 3 or 4?

 
Yenrub said:
In the 9 years since the rookie salary restrictions were put in place, how many teams have won Super Bowls with their QB on rookie deals? 3 or 4?
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Going back to Russel's first, the only Superbowl winners not named Brady or Manning have been rookie deals right?

eta - I guess Foles actually won the superbowl on Wentz's year.

 
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matuski said:
Going back to Russel's first, the only Superbowl winners not named Brady or Manning have been rookie deals right?

eta - I guess Foles actually won the superbowl on Wentz's year.
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Here is the list 

2011 – Eli Manning

2012 – Joe Flacco (rookie deal)

2013 – Russell Wilson (rookie deal)

2014 – Tom Brady

2015 – Peyton Manning

2016 – Tom Brady

2017 – Nick Foles/Carson Wentz (rookie deal)

2018 – Tom Brady

2019 – “Hall of Famer” Patrick Mahomes

 
Yenrub said:
Here is the list 

2011 – Eli Manning

2012 – Joe Flacco (rookie deal)

2013 – Russell Wilson (rookie deal)

2014 – Tom Brady

2015 – Peyton Manning

2016 – Tom Brady

2017 – Nick Foles/Carson Wentz (rookie deal)

2018 – Tom Brady

2019 – “Hall of Famer” Patrick Mahomes
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Seems like a pretty damned fool proof argument for rookie deals.

Unless you have one of the greatest QBs of all time on your roster.  The exception of all exceptions being that Eli win.

 
Yenrub said:
Here is the list 

2011 – Eli Manning

2012 – Joe Flacco (rookie deal)

2013 – Russell Wilson (rookie deal)

2014 – Tom Brady

2015 – Peyton Manning

2016 – Tom Brady

2017 – Nick Foles/Carson Wentz (rookie deal)

2018 – Tom Brady

2019 – “Hall of Famer” Patrick Mahomes
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Have to give you credit for proving yourself wrong. Pretty unusual behavior for an FBG. Kudos.

 
DallasDMac said:
Have to give you credit for proving yourself wrong. Pretty unusual behavior for an FBG. Kudos.
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LOL I wasn’t trying to prove anything. But if you conclude that only all-time great QB’s or QB’s on rookie deals can win Super Bowls, all of this talk about Dak and Dallas winning a Super Bowl is a moot because Dak isn’t an all-time great and whether Dallas pays him 20m or 40m  he won’t be on a rookie deal.

 
Yenrub said:
LOL I wasn’t trying to prove anything. But if you conclude that only all-time great QB’s or QB’s on rookie deals can win Super Bowls, all of this talk about Dak and Dallas winning a Super Bowl is a moot because Dak isn’t an all-time great and whether Dallas pays him 20m or 40m  he won’t be on a rookie deal.
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It's an interesting point. One that seems to lead to a conclusion that with the exception of Mahomes teams should scrap their QB after their rookie contract. maybe a couple others

 
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