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TE Hunter Henry, NE (1 Viewer)

The other 

zftcg said:
Anyone starting him this week? Considering dropping D. Allen for him. Love the NO match up. My only concern is that betting on rookie TEs is always dicey, and I could find myself in a week or two with a backup TE and no good WW options (14 team league). 
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The other thing is that San Diego is going to be down maybe three starting o lineman. Those situations sometimes require the TE to stay in and help with blocking rather than go out and run routes. Could hurt Hunter's value. That being said, I currently have him in my lineup for Delanie Walker, so I'm hoping for the best... 

 
The funny thing about NO is they really defend the TE position very well. For whatever reason no TE has gotten more then 40 yards and no TDs this year against them.

 
Deaddawg said:
The funny thing about NO is they really defend the TE position very well. For whatever reason no TE has gotten more then 40 yards and no TDs this year against them.
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That may be in part because they haven't faced a team that has any talent at the TE position. Between OAK, NYG, ATL there isn't much there as far as TE's or TE utilization goes. 

 
kawaihae said:
The other 

The other thing is that San Diego is going to be down maybe three starting o lineman. Those situations sometimes require the TE to stay in and help with blocking rather than go out and run routes. Could hurt Hunter's value. That being said, I currently have him in my lineup for Delanie Walker, so I'm hoping for the best... 
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Same

 
I liked what  I saw. He added a lot more than Gates did. I am holding. Rudolph has a bye coming up and HH might be a nice replacement there. Plus there is the chance that Rudolph fizzles out. My worry is just that Gates comes back and steals RZ looks. Other than that, HH seems to have TE1 upside. 

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Kid looks good
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Yup. Gonna be real interesting to see how things shake out when Gates gets healthy. I don't see them phasing Gates out. He's still a terrific Red Zone threat and the Chargers aren't exactly overflowing with offensive options given all their injuries so they need Gates back. But Henry's legit. Could definitely see them working a lot of 2-TE sets like they tried to do in the past when Green was there. This will give defenses a different look and give Rivers more options, especially in the RZ. Another big-bodied target is always a plus near the End Zone.  

 
packersfan said:
Yup. Gonna be real interesting to see how things shake out when Gates gets healthy. I don't see them phasing Gates out. He's still a terrific Red Zone threat and the Chargers aren't exactly overflowing with offensive options given all their injuries so they need Gates back. But Henry's legit. Could definitely see them working a lot of 2-TE sets like they tried to do in the past when Green was there. This will give defenses a different look and give Rivers more options, especially in the RZ. Another big-bodied target is always a plus near the End Zone.  
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I agree Henry looks great and they will likely use more TE sets when Gates is back. However, Gates is still a better receiver and Henry is a much better blocker, so in 2 TE sets, Gates will still run more routes and get more targets. The good news is that Gates probably won't play more than 50% of the snaps when he is back, if that, leaving a healthy amount of snaps for Henry as the single TE. So he could still get his.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I agree Henry looks great and they will likely use more TE sets when Gates is back. However, Gates is still a better receiver and Henry is a much better blocker, so in 2 TE sets, Gates will still run more routes and get more targets. The good news is that Gates probably won't play more than 50% of the snaps when he is back, if that, leaving a healthy amount of snaps for Henry as the single TE. So he could still get his.
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I'm not sure I see a huge reduction in snaps for Gates. The Chargers' D isn't very good so if we assume a lot of passing for San Diego in most/many of the games they play going forward and assuming Gates stays reasonably healthy (that's a big question I realize) then it seems reasonably safe to assume Gates will carry a meaningful role in the passing game. He's just too good as a route runner and Rivers trusts him too much, especially in Red Zone situations for him to be phased out significantly in my opinion. Obviously I'm just speculating and it all comes down to whether Gates can get healthy and stay healthy. If he can't then all bets are off and Henry could assume a huge role and he clearly looks like he could generate Top 10 and possibly Top 5 TE production if Gates can't get back on the field. 

But if Gates can come back and stay healthy I just think he's still too valuable to this team to go away and I don't see the Chargers phasing him out either. They've lost so many weapons I don't think they can really afford to. Gates is still a strong route runner, has great hands and is money near the End Zone. I think a coaching staff would have to be out of their minds to phase someone like that out of their offense.

 
packersfan said:
I'm not sure I see a huge reduction in snaps for Gates. The Chargers' D isn't very good so if we assume a lot of passing for San Diego in most/many of the games they play going forward and assuming Gates stays reasonably healthy (that's a big question I realize) then it seems reasonably safe to assume Gates will carry a meaningful role in the passing game. He's just too good as a route runner and Rivers trusts him too much, especially in Red Zone situations for him to be phased out significantly in my opinion. Obviously I'm just speculating and it all comes down to whether Gates can get healthy and stay healthy. If he can't then all bets are off and Henry could assume a huge role and he clearly looks like he could generate Top 10 and possibly Top 5 TE production if Gates can't get back on the field. 

But if Gates can come back and stay healthy I just think he's still too valuable to this team to go away and I don't see the Chargers phasing him out either. They've lost so many weapons I don't think they can really afford to. Gates is still a strong route runner, has great hands and is money near the End Zone. I think a coaching staff would have to be out of their minds to phase someone like that out of their offense.
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I didn't say I expect them to phase Gates out. I said I expect him to play about 50% of the snaps. I think he will be targeted plenty on the snaps he plays. I'm sure Gates wants the TE TD record and Rivers wants to help him get it.

Gates said before last season that he envisioned his snaps being reduced in 2015. He said he envisioned playing on high value downs, i.e., third downs, red zone, etc. He played about 62% of the offensive snaps, but he may have played less if Allen and Stevie Johnson didn't get hurt. He played a bit less than that in the first 2 weeks this season before he got hurt.

Given how good Henry is plus the fact that Gates looks a bit slower and is now dealing with a hamstring problem, I suspect Gates' snaps will come down a bit this year. Logically, if Gates plays 50-60% of the snaps in games in which he is healthy, that means Henry will likely play the other 40-50% as the primary receiving TE. Henry will also play plenty of snaps with Gates, and on those snaps I expect Henry to primarily be a blocker.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't say I expect them to phase Gates out. I said I expect him to play about 50% of the snaps. I think he will be targeted plenty on the snaps he plays. I'm sure Gates wants the TE TD record and Rivers wants to help him get it.

Gates said before last season that he envisioned his snaps being reduced in 2015. He said he envisioned playing on high value downs, i.e., third downs, red zone, etc. He played about 62% of the offensive snaps, but he may have played less if Allen and Stevie Johnson didn't get hurt. He played a bit less than that in the first 2 weeks this season before he got hurt.

Given how good Henry is plus the fact that Gates looks a bit slower and is now dealing with a hamstring problem, I suspect Gates' snaps will come down a bit this year. Logically, if Gates plays 50-60% of the snaps in games in which he is healthy, that means Henry will likely play the other 40-50% as the primary receiving TE. Henry will also play plenty of snaps with Gates, and on those snaps I expect Henry to primarily be a blocker.
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Chargers coaches are dumb cant count on anything.

 
I don't know what the percentage of snaps Gates was playing the first two weeks. Just seems like less than 50% is a huge drop-off but I could be wrong. 

 
packersfan said:
I don't know what the percentage of snaps Gates was playing the first two weeks. Just seems like less than 50% is a huge drop-off but I could be wrong. 
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He played just under 60% of the snaps in weeks 1 and 2 combined. He played 66% in week 1 and 53% in week 2.

Also, FWIW, PFF has graded Henry out with a much better receiving grade than Gates so far, along with better run blocking and pass blocking grades.

 
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Just Win Baby said:
He played just under 60% of the snaps in weeks 1 and 2 combined. He played 66% in week 1 and 53% in week 2.

Also, FWIW, PFF has graded Henry out with a much better receiving grade than Gates so far, along with better run blocking and pass blocking grades.
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I don't always trust their grades but I definitely agree Henry has looked great and better than Gates looked the first two games. He's been terrific and should be a part of the offense no matter what happens with Gates the rest of the season. All I'm saying is that Gates, when healthy, is still a darn good player in my opinion - especially near the End Zone as a Red Zone target and the Chargers clearly need all the offensive weapons they can get. I think they would be making a huge mistake significantly reducing his role if he can get healthy and stay healthy.

Now whether he can do that is the big question. 

 
packersfan said:
I don't always trust their grades but I definitely agree Henry has looked great and better than Gates looked the first two games. He's been terrific and should be a part of the offense no matter what happens with Gates the rest of the season. All I'm saying is that Gates, when healthy, is still a darn good player in my opinion - especially near the End Zone as a Red Zone target and the Chargers clearly need all the offensive weapons they can get. I think they would be making a huge mistake significantly reducing his role if he can get healthy and stay healthy.
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Henry is better than Gates right now in every facet of the game except maybe as a red zone threat. At this point I don't see how they can give Henry the Ladarius Green treatment.

It should really not be about finding ways to work Hunter Henry into this offense any longer. The mindset should be Henry is the primary TE and now who do they work packages in the offense that take advantage of some things that Gates can still do. Which is mainly serve as red zone threat and some obvious passing downs.

I do tend to think Gates is still going to take a bit out of Henry's fantasy value this year, hope I'm wrong but I think with Henry being so strong at blocking it just stands to reason that when they show two TE looks more often than not when one of them is being called on to be the blocker it's going to be Henry.

 
menobrown said:
Henry is better than Gates right now in every facet of the game except maybe as a red zone threat. At this point I don't see how they can give Henry the Ladarius Green treatment.
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Do not underestimate the importance of trust when it comes to a quarterback and the players he is throwing the ball to. It is arguably the most important element on the field. Rivers trust Gates more than any player on the Chargers' roster. That counts for a lot. Now if Gates is a broken down, injury-riddled wreck it won't matter at all. But if Gates can still play (and he definitely could the first two weeks of the season) I don't think he's getting phased out. I'm a Henry owner so I'd love to see the kid get all the targets and dominate but I just don't see Gates going away unless he clearly can't play anymore. 

 
packersfan said:
Do not underestimate the importance of trust when it comes to a quarterback and the players he is throwing the ball to. It is arguably the most important element on the field. Rivers trust Gates more than any player on the Chargers' roster. That counts for a lot. Now if Gates is a broken down, injury-riddled wreck it won't matter at all. But if Gates can still play (and he definitely could the first two weeks of the season) I don't think he's getting phased out. I'm a Henry owner so I'd love to see the kid get all the targets and dominate but I just don't see Gates going away unless he clearly can't play anymore. 
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I don't under estimate trust but I absolutely think Gates is broke down, even with a healthy hamstring.  He still knows who to use his body to get some separation and most of all combined with that trust can still make him a really big time red zone contributor but at this point I think he's a shell of himself.

 
Cant believe I am asking but with Gronk banged up my only option is Henry. Would you play him over Gronk?

 
menobrown said:
Henry is better than Gates right now in every facet of the game except maybe as a red zone threat. At this point I don't see how they can give Henry the Ladarius Green treatment.

It should really not be about finding ways to work Hunter Henry into this offense any longer. The mindset should be Henry is the primary TE and now who do they work packages in the offense that take advantage of some things that Gates can still do. Which is mainly serve as red zone threat and some obvious passing downs.

I do tend to think Gates is still going to take a bit out of Henry's fantasy value this year, hope I'm wrong but I think with Henry being so strong at blocking it just stands to reason that when they show two TE looks more often than not when one of them is being called on to be the blocker it's going to be Henry.
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oh meno meno..........this is the chargers, if gates is active do not, I repeat do not play HH

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
oh meno meno..........this is the chargers, if gates is active do not, I repeat do not play HH
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I don't plan on it, and I did say I expect Gates to take a bite out of his production and because it's the Chargers could easily be the better fantasy option if you had to use one. I would not want to use either when both are healthy Gates will see a reduced role from the type of role he saw last season for instance but most the work he does get will be in the red zone area and could easily have a game like he did the last time he played. Again don't really want to play any of them until or if I get a clear idea of how they are going to work it out. With the lack of weapons I'd say they need both but will be interesting to see if they can work out in a way that taps into Henry's mulit-dimensional skill set instead of simply slotting the TE playing opposite Gates as primarily a blocker.

I still think Henry is far and away the better player than Gates at this time and taking it a step further looks as clean and natural at that position as any rookie TE I can recall.   I said the other day he was better in every facet and if that's not true I'll stick with saying he's both a better blocker and receiver. If they bury him like they did Green, who was not as talented as HH but still should have been used more, it's going to be extremely bad coaching.

 
Rivers is a smart QB. The trust he has with Gates is also a quick trust he is gaining with Hunter Henry - Henry is that good. Its too late to buy Henry cheap in most leagues, but you can still get him for a price. by the end of this season, he'll have a Reed/Olsen price

 
Stealthycat said:
Rivers is a smart QB. The trust he has with Gates is also a quick trust he is gaining with Hunter Henry - Henry is that good. Its too late to buy Henry cheap in most leagues, but you can still get him for a price. by the end of this season, he'll have a Reed/Olsen price
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Wow!!!  Those are some lofty expectations considering Gates is still there.

 
Stealthycat said:
Rivers is a smart QB. The trust he has with Gates is also a quick trust he is gaining with Hunter Henry - Henry is that good. Its too late to buy Henry cheap in most leagues, but you can still get him for a price. by the end of this season, he'll have a Reed/Olsen price
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groin pains said:
Wow!!!  Those are some lofty expectations considering Gates is still there.
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It does seem like a lofty projection for this year's performance, but might be spot on as far as projecting his price.  Dynasty owners tend to be youth-obsessed and the end-of-season narrative will be that with Gates gone, the stage is set for Henry to build on his strong 2016 with te1 numbers.

May not happen, but that's how his owners will likely price him.

 
groin pains said:
Wow!!!  Those are some lofty expectations considering Gates is still there.
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Yeah I can't see any way he's a Top 5 TE if Gates is healthy but I could see him being a low-end TE1 in PPR even with a healthy Gates. 4-5 receptions with the occasional TD isn't a reach at all for Henry if the Chargers utilize him intelligently. It's not like they'll want to overwork Gates so there should be plenty of work for both TEs if San Diego goes with 2 TE looks a lot of the time which they could conceivably do.

It's not like they're blessed with a lot of options they can rely on in the passing game right now. Gates and Henry are arguably their top 2 options right now if everyone is healthy. Williams is still raw and Benjamin has kind of faded a bit lately. They really need both of their TEs in a big way right now so it would make sense for the Chargers to go with a 2 TE set as a huge part of their offensive foundation moving forward, assuming Gates can stay healthy.  

 
Brandon Will said:
Where do you rank Henry moving forward in dynasty?
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That's tough - I'd probably put him around the 7-10 range because he's so young and showing promise. TE's usually don't do well their rookie year. He seems to be doing pretty darn well.

 
Brandon Will said:
Where do you rank Henry moving forward in dynasty?
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I'll answer this in a different way. For the ROS I think he's nothing but a desperation play while Gate is active, the kind of guy you have to use, not the kind of player you want to use and again I"ll offer the disclaimer of as long as Gates is active. So for a competing team that can't afford a dead roster spot for the season his value would need to be lowered. If you are in one of those rebuild modes his value goes up, so different value for different teams.

Now for next season and beyond he'll likely end up somewhere between #2 and #5 for me. A lot of variables directly and indirectly related to him which will impact his ranking. How does health of Reed and Eifert go for ROS? If McCoy is let go what kind of scheme does the new OC run? So a lot unknown right now but  here is how I see him versus some of his current comp.

Also key to note I look at him from TE premium 1.5 PPR angle simply because that's rules for most leagues I play and I do think this system favors his style of play more than single PPR leagues.

Ebron- close to Henry in youth department, just not as good and his injury issues are getting out of control. Not a lot of fun to own, at least yet anyway.

Ertz- I like him a lot but I think Henry can do everything he can do and he's 4 years younger, but Ertz does have benefit of younger franchise QB.

Kelce- major talent, getting used more this year but usage still seems lower than it should be but enough to pacify me but 6 years older. Alex Smith or Rivers, big difference to me.

Reed and Eifert-both are all about health to me, despite both being older I'd lean both if I feel good about their health status but that's a big if right now.

Olsen/Graham/Walker/Marty B- they are football players, not grapes.

 
menobrown said:
I'll answer this in a different way. For the ROS I think he's nothing but a desperation play while Gate is active, the kind of guy you have to use, not the kind of player you want to use and again I"ll offer the disclaimer of as long as Gates is active. So for a competing team that can't afford a dead roster spot for the season his value would need to be lowered. If you are in one of those rebuild modes his value goes up, so different value for different teams.

Now for next season and beyond he'll likely end up somewhere between #2 and #5 for me. A lot of variables directly and indirectly related to him which will impact his ranking. How does health of Reed and Eifert go for ROS? If McCoy is let go what kind of scheme does the new OC run? So a lot unknown right now but  here is how I see him versus some of his current comp.

Also key to note I look at him from TE premium 1.5 PPR angle simply because that's rules for most leagues I play and I do think this system favors his style of play more than single PPR leagues.

Ebron- close to Henry in youth department, just not as good and his injury issues are getting out of control. Not a lot of fun to own, at least yet anyway.

Ertz- I like him a lot but I think Henry can do everything he can do and he's 4 years younger, but Ertz does have benefit of younger franchise QB.

Kelce- major talent, getting used more this year but usage still seems lower than it should be but enough to pacify me but 6 years older. Alex Smith or Rivers, big difference to me.

Reed and Eifert-both are all about health to me, despite both being older I'd lean both if I feel good about their health status but that's a big if right now.

Olsen/Graham/Walker/Marty B- they are football players, not grapes.
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Any reason why you think he's that limited by Gates? Tomorrow will paint a better picture but he played way more snaps than Gates last week, had better numbers (although due to a long play on bad coverage) and caught a one yard  touchdown that everyone seems to assume will go to Gates.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with even better numbers than Gates depending on how the usage shakes out ROS.

 
hamsterdam said:
Any reason why you think he's that limited by Gates?
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If Gates is healthy, Gates will run more routes and get more targets, in part because that is his strength and in part because he is virtually useless as a blocker, whereas Henry is a very good blocker. In particular, Gates has better chemistry/trust with Rivers and a long history as a strong red zone target, meaning he should get more RZ opportunities. (Not that chemistry/trust/red zone ability is lacking for Henry, it just cannot yet be at Gates' level.)

Gates is close to the all time TE TD record, and I'm sure he wants it, and Rivers and the franchise want him to get it. As the season death spiral continues, that will become a more prominent positive still on the table for this season, so they might make more of a concerted push for it. Plus, all parties probably want him to get it this season so he can retire and the team can move on with Henry.

 
hamsterdam said:
Any reason why you think he's that limited by Gates?
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Yes. Gates may have got less snaps, a trend I think continues, but he gets what I term the money snaps, passing down and red zone work.

It's like if you had two RB's and one got 15 touches a game but always came out on third down and goal line work for the same RB who only got like 5 touches a game. I'd take those 5 touches over the 15 of the other guy. This is rough example of how I see Henry/Gates situation.

 
As I mentioned, Henry caught a 1 yard TD last week, so he's getting looks in redzone / goal line and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't continue.

Not saying Henry will get more looks / TDs than Gates but he's not going to be strictly an in-between-20s guy. 

I do think he will be in there blocking more than we want but I could see both being low-end TE1 guys, and I think Henry is already not a desperation play. 

 
hamsterdam said:
As I mentioned, Henry caught a 1 yard TD last week, so he's getting looks in redzone / goal line and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't continue.

Not saying Henry will get more looks / TDs than Gates but he's not going to be strictly an in-between-20s guy. 

I do think he will be in there blocking more than we want but I could see both being low-end TE1 guys, and I think Henry is already not a desperation play. 
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I didn't say Henry will get zero red zone looks. Gates will get more, if he is healthy, and it probably won't be close.

No way this offense supports 2 low end TE1 players. How many offenses in history have done that?

This is like deja vu all over again, going back to discussions of Ladarius Green's fantasy prospects. He flashed impressive talent at times and yet never fulfilled his fantasy potential, because Gates got a lot more passing game opportunities while Green was mostly either blocking or on the sidelines. Henry is a better TE than Green, but is also a rookie... Green couldn't get many opportunities just last season as a 4th year player unless Gates missed games.

 
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I think last Sunday gave us the blueprint for what we should expect going forward if both are on the field. Henry will be the primary TE with Gates on the field in passing down/Red Zone situations. However, Henry can also be used near the End Zone as well due to his height and receiving skills so that gives him solid value moving forward even with Gates back because his TD potential is going to remain relatively high since the Chargers will likely remain a pass-heavy offense. I think both TEs are looking pretty good honestly, especially if the matchup is a strong one like it was against the Raiders.

Tomorrow night's isn't great on paper but if San Diego is trailing then it's possible one or both could do well based on passing volume. And again should the Chargers get into the RZ I would expect Henry to stay involved. We know Gates will get on the field but the Chargers aren't blessed with an abundance of weapons and as we on Henry's TD last week he'll get his chances so I wouldn't worry about him going away now that Gates is back. He's earned a role going forward so I'd keep starting him if you've been relying on him so far. He may no longer carry Top 5 upside with Gates back but backend Top 10 upside could be there on a weekly basis. Kid's legit. I'm thrilled the Packers never gave him a serious look in the draft. Well done Ted Thompson.      

 
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't say Henry will get zero red zone looks. Gates will get more, if he is healthy, and it probably won't be close.

No way this offense supports 2 low end TE1 players. How many offenses in history have done that?

This is like deja vu all over again, going back to discussions of Ladarius Green's fantasy prospects. He flashed impressive talent at times and yet never fulfilled his fantasy potential, because Gates got a lot more passing game opportunities while Green was mostly either blocking or on the sidelines. Henry is a better TE than Green, but is also a rookie... Green couldn't get many opportunities just last season as a 4th year player unless Gates missed games.
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My argument against the Green situation is that, as you mentioned, Henry is already a better TE than Green, and Gates was 1-3 years younger during those years. May not seem like much but when you're in the late 30s, perhaps it's more than we think.

I guess we'll see how it plays out but I see it more like Henry being the primary tight end and Gates becoming the secondary, specialty TE. 

 
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Henry looks great. I'm trying to remember the last rookie TE that looked this good. In a couple weeks, he really might be the best receiving option on the team.

 
hamsterdam said:
My argument against the Green situation is that, as you mentioned, Henry is already a better TE than Green, and Gates was 1-3 years younger during those years. May not seem like much but when you're in the late 30s, perhaps it's more than we think.

I guess we'll see how it plays out but I see it more like Henry being the primary tight end and Gates becoming the secondary, specialty TE. 
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I also think it's fair to note that in Greens entire history with the Chargers, if you look at this from fantasy single PPR angle, that only time did he ever have a better game than Henry last week while Gates was active and that was in 2013 on strength of a 60 yard TD catch which got him a one point better game than Henry had last week. So I do agree this is not Ladarius 2.0 or something.

Also Gates may or may not have been under the influence of PED's and may or may not be any longer in additon to being older as you said.

 
Ilov80s said:
Henry looks great. I'm trying to remember the last rookie TE that looked this good. In a couple weeks, he really might be the best receiving option on the team.
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Gronk, Hernandez and Jordan Reed all were NFL ready as receiving TE's as rookie's in recent years than you have to jump back to Shockey and back farther to Keith Jackson. That's what I can recall off top of my head.

In terms of all around play, meaning blocking/receiving, I'd say Gronk was superior but he did not get cooking until later in his rookie season.

 
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menobrown said:
Off the top of my head only NE which looks like they are about to do it again.
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I don't see SD supporting 2 fantasy viable TEs but there are a couple reasons why they doesn't get me off HH. One, SD is a high volume short-medium pass team. Two, their top 2 short-medium pass options are out for the year. Third, they don't run the ball well so almost any game script will be pass heavy. Fourth, they are among the top 5 in RZ passes. Finally, Gates is very old and already banged up so I'm not confident in him continuing to play through the year. 

 
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