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RB Kenyan Drake, LV


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Well he escaped the draft.

I do like ballage and had him as a sleeper but I don't see him hurting drake other then maybe at the goalline. Really ballage is kinda the same type of RB as drake. both were more athletes in college then pure RBs

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anderson to the panthers so other then demarco Murray (and even then I'm not that worried) I don't think there's any other RBs without jobs that could hurt drakes value.

just gotta hope Gase uses him right now lol

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6 minutes ago, Bfrahm3 said:

just gotta hope Gase uses him right now lol

Yeah good luck with that. :D

If the Dolphins could clear 1000 total plays for the first time since 2014 it would be progress.

Gase: I hate how our offense is not working, I'm sick of it.

Who is responsible for how the offense is working?

Gase: Players are not doing what I ask them to. They need to do more work on their own (independent of my coaching).

I used to think he was a good coach. He seemed to have Cultler playing better with Chicago and motivating Cutler impressed me. Then the whole Jay Ajayi Charlie Foxtrot at the beginning of the 2016 season had me at my wits end. He finally admits he was wrong and uses Ajayi as the primary RB instead of splitting it with all of the RB and not allowing any of them to get into a rhythm, but even though this allowed them to win a lot of games, he still wasn't happy with it. So even admitting he was wrong, he didn't really change his ways. On to 2017 where he ends up trading Ajayi away and throwing him under the bus for the offenses deficiencies, but the offense did not improve without Ajayi. They were 4 wins 3 losses with Ajayi 2 wins 7 losses without him.

Now they traded away Jarvis Landry. The team is moving in the wrong direction and Gases days are numbers as the head coach of the Dolphins.

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8 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Yeah good luck with that. :D

If the Dolphins could clear 1000 total plays for the first time since 2014 it would be progress.

Gase: I hate how our offense is not working, I'm sick of it.

Who is responsible for how the offense is working?

Gase: Players are not doing what I ask them to. They need to do more work on their own (independent of my coaching).

I used to think he was a good coach. He seemed to have Cultler playing better with Chicago and motivating Cutler impressed me. Then the whole Jay Ajayi Charlie Foxtrot at the beginning of the 2016 season had me at my wits end. He finally admits he was wrong and uses Ajayi as the primary RB instead of splitting it with all of the RB and not allowing any of them to get into a rhythm, but even though this allowed them to win a lot of games, he still wasn't happy with it. So even admitting he was wrong, he didn't really change his ways. On to 2017 where he ends up trading Ajayi away and throwing him under the bus for the offenses deficiencies, but the offense did not improve without Ajayi. They were 4 wins 3 losses with Ajayi 2 wins 7 losses without him.

Now they traded away Jarvis Landry. The team is moving in the wrong direction and Gases days are numbers as the head coach of the Dolphins.

Yeah I'd be real excited about Drake if they had gotten rid of Gase last year and he ended in the same position as he is in right now. I haven't looked at schedules yet but I'd be pretty surprised if Gase makes it past the bye week

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People are missing the boat with this guy. There's always some excuse as to why he won't start. They're drafting someone (Ballage. Big deal), they're signing CJ Anderson (didn't happen), now it's his coach isn't good enough. Face it, Drake haters, he's the starting RB and he's young. People talk about the potential of rookies based on landing spots, Drake is in perfect position to take this job and run with it. Sorry some of you missed the boat.

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1 hour ago, Jello_Biafra said:

People are missing the boat with this guy. There's always some excuse as to why he won't start. They're drafting someone (Ballage. Big deal), they're signing CJ Anderson (didn't happen), now it's his coach isn't good enough. Face it, Drake haters, he's the starting RB and he's young. People talk about the potential of rookies based on landing spots, Drake is in perfect position to take this job and run with it. Sorry some of you missed the boat.

I don't think you have the chronology correct. Gase doing dumb things as a coach is not a new thing.

The Dolphins don't have much left after getting rid of Ajayi and Landry so its sink or swim time for Drake but no I am not at all concerned about bailing this Titanic on a life boat last year.

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2 hours ago, Jello_Biafra said:

People are missing the boat with this guy. There's always some excuse as to why he won't start. They're drafting someone (Ballage. Big deal), they're signing CJ Anderson (didn't happen), now it's his coach isn't good enough. Face it, Drake haters, he's the starting RB and he's young. People talk about the potential of rookies based on landing spots, Drake is in perfect position to take this job and run with it. Sorry some of you missed the boat.

His coach is terrible tho. I have quite a few shares of Drake so I'm a very happy owner right now but I also now that with Gase it's probably going to be an up and down season. Lucky he may get canned semi fast and the new guy will be able to use drake right

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Fun guy to watch but how much faith do you have in a guy who has only touched the ball over 170 times once in his career over a whole season, dating all the way back to high school. Honestly, betting on any of the 3 Dolphins backs is betting on a massive statistical outlier. It may get ugly there this year, but I’ve been getting Ballage fairly cheap in rookie drafts. I’d rather bet on the equally high SPARQ 230lb back but really dont have a strong argument to those that prefer Drake.

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12 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Fun guy to watch but how much faith do you have in a guy who has only touched the ball over 170 times once in his career over a whole season, dating all the way back to high school. Honestly, betting on any of the 3 Dolphins backs is betting on a massive statistical outlier. It may get ugly there this year, but I’ve been getting Ballage fairly cheap in rookie drafts. I’d rather bet on the equally high SPARQ 230lb back but really dont have a strong argument to those that prefer Drake.

I feel the same way.  Everything you said is why I sold him for the 2.1 in this years draft.  He has never stayed healthy and I sold based on his past health issues.

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i'm defniitely selling high here.  watched him a fair bit.  he is immensely gifted but seems to be a space runner.  he needs big spaces, i don't think miami will deliver those this year.  

i'm happy to be wrong and i love his gamebreak potential but my gut tells me to sell here.

 

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

Fun guy to watch but how much faith do you have in a guy who has only touched the ball over 170 times once in his career over a whole season, dating all the way back to high school. Honestly, betting on any of the 3 Dolphins backs is betting on a massive statistical outlier. It may get ugly there this year, but I’ve been getting Ballage fairly cheap in rookie drafts. I’d rather bet on the equally high SPARQ 230lb back but really dont have a strong argument to those that prefer Drake.

Well, everyone is going crazy for Alvin Kamara even though he largely fits the same description. Never carried the load in college and only had about 200 touches last season as a rookie. I don't think Drake is ideally suited for 300+ touches, but he's explosive and talented. It's not inconceivable that he can be really good. Like Kamara (who transferred to Tennessee after initially being at Alabama), he was a victim of a crowded depth chart in college. Had either guy played at a lesser school, he probably would've been a workhorse in college.

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12 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Maybe he was a late bloomer, but something tells me if he was so good it would have shown up a lot earlier.  How can you trust him long term?

He never really got a chance before. When he did, he went off. 

Huge season coming. Book it. 

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16 hours ago, mr. peanut said:

i'm defniitely selling high here.  watched him a fair bit.  he is immensely gifted but seems to be a space runner.  he needs big spaces, i don't think miami will deliver those this year.  

i'm happy to be wrong and i love his gamebreak potential but my gut tells me to sell here.

 

Mistake. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
Quote

Kenyan Drake "opened with the starters" at Dolphins training camp.

It's not surprising, though veteran addition Frank Gore was right behind him. The Miami Herald expects Drake and Gore to battle for 1A and 1B status. Drake closed extremely strong last season, but the Dolphins went with the opposite of a youth movement in free agency. The coaching staff is going to love Gore's "gritty" game.

Source: Miami Herald

Jul 26 - 5:23 PM

Edited by Faust
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Kenyan Drake and Frank Gore were listed as co-starters on the Dolphins' initial training camp depth chart.

This is somewhat of a surprise after Drake finished last year as Miami's lead ball-carrier, though the Dolphins have been talking up Gore all summer. While it's still hard to imagine Drake actually splitting work with a 35-year-old, it's clear that Gore will have a role this season. His presence downgrades Drake to borderline RB2 status in fantasy leagues.

Related: Frank Gore

Source: Armando Salguero on Twitter 

Aug 5 - 11:18 AM

 

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

Its more than that.

They don't trust Drake and Frank Gore is a great RB.

Gore is going to have near 200 rushing attempts this season, possibly more.

Seems like a bold prediction. Gore is a trusted vet but at this stage he gets what's blocked for him and nothing else. Miami looks to have a terrible offensive line, average QB play and WRs. I don't think Gore will have the kind if efficiency in that situation to warrant that many touches.

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3 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Its more than that.

They don't trust Drake and Frank Gore is a great RB.

Gore is going to have near 200 rushing attempts this season, possibly more.

I value your knowledge but this seems wrong.  Gore is good but Miami needs Drakes explosiveness if they are going to have much O.  

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Players like Frank Gore come along once in a blue moon. That guy has an indomitable will to succeed. He's a Terminator.  In Miami, Frank Gore isn't just a mere hero or legend, he's downright ICONIC, and he has a history outplaying expectations, especially when there's something situational serving as motivation. Now he's coming home to finish his career, with a chip on his shoulder concerning both  negative perceptions about his age, and his production in Indy last year, which it's very likely had little to do with him...in the place where he made his bones, and where he's absolutely ADORED...people have been betting against Frank Gore, and losing, for years. One year less of tread on the tires, and at age 35 and going into Season 14, it sounds like a recipe for disaster, but when you factor in the specimen and the circumstances (and we're always shading analytics with player/situation dynamics around these parts on a regular basis), you're talking about the human definition of an outlier...of all the times to bet against him, you're gonna bet against him NOW?!?!?! Well, not me, no siree. Indy was morbid last year. That YPC is climbing back over 4, he'll be right back around 12-1300 total yards, and the 'phins are gonna find a way to have Frank Gore score TD's, especially in front of the home crowd, because, the brutal truth about the 2018 Dolphins is that that's exactly what the focus of this Season might wind up being, because that's all they might be playing for...

...and I'm a big fan of Drake. I just question his ability to carry a full rb1 load over the course of 16 games. Especially this particular year, with the Gore dynamic in play.

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1 hour ago, nittanylion said:

Players like Frank Gore come along once in a blue moon. That guy has an indomitable will to succeed. He's a Terminator.  In Miami, Frank Gore isn't just a mere hero or legend, he's downright ICONIC, and he has a history outplaying expectations, especially when there's something situational serving as motivation. Now he's coming home to finish his career, with a chip on his shoulder concerning both  negative perceptions about his age, and his production in Indy last year, which it's very likely had little to do with him...in the place where he made his bones, and where he's absolutely ADORED...people have been betting against Frank Gore, and losing, for years. One year less of tread on the tires, and at age 35 and going into Season 14, it sounds like a recipe for disaster, but when you factor in the specimen and the circumstances (and we're always shading analytics with player/situation dynamics around these parts on a regular basis), you're talking about the human definition of an outlier...of all the times to bet against him, you're gonna bet against him NOW?!?!?! Well, not me, no siree. Indy was morbid last year. That YPC is climbing back over 4, he'll be right back around 12-1300 total yards, and the 'phins are gonna find a way to have Frank Gore score TD's, especially in front of the home crowd, because, the brutal truth about the 2018 Dolphins is that that's exactly what the focus of this Season might wind up being, because that's all they might be playing for...

...and I'm a big fan of Drake. I just question his ability to carry a full rb1 load over the course of 16 games. Especially this particular year, with the Gore dynamic in play.

What you're saying is more true than you know.  Gore played for Coral Gables High School in Miami where he shattered every dade county rushing record known to man.  I was at the infamous District playoff game where he ran for 500 yards in one game.  Frank Gore in high school before he tore his ACL's multiple times was simply the greatest football player I've ever seen come from Miami...and that's quite a statement given the talent this area produces.

On top of all that , the kid overcame a bad learning disability.  It's hard not to root for him.  

From a fantasy perspective and as a Dolphins fan I've been warning everyone not to overvalue Drake this year.  It's pretty obvious the staff doesn't view him as a bell cow or anything resembling it.  If you can get him in the 5th or 6th round I'm ok with it but in every mock I see he goes end of the 3rd or early 4th.  At that price no thanks.

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14 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The depth chart also lists Gesicki 5th. 

That tells me all I need to know about trusting this depth chart release.  Whether motivation, coach play, or whatever, I put very little stock into this as a week 1 depth chart.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of Adam Gase.

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14 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The depth chart also lists Gesicki 5th. 

That tells me all I need to know about trusting this depth chart release.  Whether motivation, coach play, or whatever, I put very little stock into this as a week 1 depth chart.

How about Frank Gores career compared to Kerryon Drakes career?

To me this is just a recent example of what the plan has been since they signed Gore. This is not that different than when they signed Foster who did become the starting RB and may have remained that for quite some time if he had not been injured, which wasn't really surprising that he was, given his injury history.

Gore has been more durable than Foster although he is currently older than what Foster was.

I am not so much looking at Gore as a value for fantasy (although he may be) as I am seeing Gore have a lot of touches which will limit what Drake gets the opportunity to do. I am a bit surprised at the push back against what to me isn't a novel or bold idea, that has been reported by statements from the coaches and others around the team for months now.

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Drake only started to see a fantasy relevant workload in week 13 of last season when Gase's hand was forced by injuries. He has never wanted to hand the keys over to Drake regardless as to how he has performed. I wouldn't be surprised if Gore saw ~12 carries a game as Bia is predicting, I'd guess slightly less like the ~9 carries a game Williams was getting before he went down in week 12. I look at RBs like Alex Collins, Royce Freeman and Ajayi going after Drake in the 5th/6th, and would rather role the dice with them as I ultimately like their situations a lot more. I really like Drake but I don't like his situation, Gase or this offense. 

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4 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

I value your knowledge but this seems wrong.  Gore is good but Miami needs Drakes explosiveness if they are going to have much O.  

Gore hasn't been good running the ball for the past three seasons. And he isn't on a better team right now. Is Tannehill really better than Brisset ATM?

At best Gore has still demonstrated some ability in the passing game and may have utility as a 3rd down/receiving back.

The Dolphins aren't in position to succeed with a 3.8ypc back with the WRs & QB they have, they need some upside that makes defenses think a little. That isn't Gore.

That depth chart was simply showing respect to a fringe HoF RB.

IMHO

 

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

How about Frank Gores career compared to Kerryon Drakes career?

To me this is just a recent example of what the plan has been since they signed Gore. This is not that different than when they signed Foster who did become the starting RB and may have remained that for quite some time if he had not been injured, which wasn't really surprising that he was, given his injury history.

Gore has been more durable than Foster although he is currently older than what Foster was.

I am not so much looking at Gore as a value for fantasy (although he may be) as I am seeing Gore have a lot of touches which will limit what Drake gets the opportunity to do. I am a bit surprised at the push back against what to me isn't a novel or bold idea, that has been reported by statements from the coaches and others around the team for months now.

Of all the reasons to doubt Drake, Gore is the last. In rb years he’s over a 100. Probably more of a pr thing for a bad team to sell tickets than anything. 

Edited by voiceofunreason
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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Gore WAS a great RB.

After 13 seasons in the league, any 35 year old back is going to lose a step and not be effective. But Gore IS a great RB, even now. His TD totals have been down since his last year at SFO, but he is the picture of steady production at a high level.His average yards per season in the last 5 years is only 49 yards lower than the previous 5 years, with his avg y/a only .54 yards lower in the same trailing 5 year period vs the previous 5 years. 

This is not a back who's production has fallen off a cliff.

Drake has the inside track being younger and getting a lot of deserved buzz out of camp - he finished the season last year strong. No-one, including myself, will be surprised when he likely fully takes over the backfield this year.

But while that's the likely scenario, there is a good probability still that the team caps Drake's upside by leveraging Gore for as long as he's effective. This will mean Gore will have a meaningful role to begin the season, and it's far from a done deal that Drake is guaranteed to be a bell cow later in the season.

At this point, while I think Drake pans out fine in the long run, I think his current ADP makes him a little overpriced for my taste, while Gore is still undervalued.

 

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5 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

After 13 seasons in the league, any 35 year old back is going to lose a step and not be effective. But Gore IS a great RB, even now. His TD totals have been down since his last year at SFO, but he is the picture of steady production at a high level.His average yards per season in the last 5 years is only 49 yards lower than the previous 5 years, with his avg y/a only .54 yards lower in the same trailing 5 year period vs the previous 5 years. 

This is not a back who's production has fallen off a cliff.

Drake has the inside track being younger and getting a lot of deserved buzz out of camp - he finished the season last year strong. No-one, including myself, will be surprised when he likely fully takes over the backfield this year.

But while that's the likely scenario, there is a good probability still that the team caps Drake's upside by leveraging Gore for as long as he's effective. This will mean Gore will have a meaningful role to begin the season, and it's far from a done deal that Drake is guaranteed to be a bell cow later in the season.

At this point, while I think Drake pans out fine in the long run, I think his current ADP makes him a little overpriced for my taste, while Gore is still undervalued.

 

He's still a solid back and it's amazing he was still effective at 34 but he has not been great for at least three years - and he's 35 now.

In 2017 he averaged 3.68 ypc, the year before 3.9 ypc, and 3.71 ypc. in 2015. He's scored 13 TDs in those last 3 season combined. His yardage was volume based. He is no longer going to get anything more than what is blocked for him.

I do not know how the Dolphins will split carries - maybe they are interested in letting Gore have one last season of glory in the city where he played college ball, but it wouldn't make a ton of sense to give him 250 carries on a team going nowhere.

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Gase handed to the job over the Foster the year he retired. You cannot be surprised that he plans to use Gore in some capacity. I would at least take solace in the fact that Ballage isn't some type of between the tackles grinder like Gore despite his size. But even then Ballage has run with the ones in camp at times. Maybe I haven't done enough research but I don't see Gase leaning on Drake but Drake's ADP does seems to reflect that. Maybe I just don't love his ceiling, especially in this offense. 

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6 hours ago, LittlePhatty said:

Phase 1: Ploy to motivate

Phase 2: ...

Phase 3: Championship?

The Dolphins are no where near a championship level team.

nittanylion pretty much nailed it. Gore gives Dolphins fans a reason to watch the games.

Maybe Drake ends up being great, I just have serious doubts about him actually being preferred over Gore. I think this backfield will be a pretty even split between the two and Gore is likely getting goal line work if they ever get the ball that close. It is possible that Gore wins passing situation duty as well, because of pass protection and him just being better than Drake in that area.

Gore is a pros pro and I think a lot of people are writing him off as washed up. While he is certainly well past his prime I think he still has some game left in him.

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How many TD's do we think the Dolphins are going to score? I think this is an pertinant question, if you're a proponent of the Gore dynamic, as I am. Frank Gore currently has 94 Regular Season TD's (77 rushing/17 receiving)...I'd bet dollars to donuts the 'phins have every intention of getting him over the 100-TD hump before he cashes his chips in. Especially in front of the home crowd.

As a matter of fact, that's probably a good tidbit to file away for a prop bet down the road. Hmm...

Anyway, I don't think the Dolphins are going to score a whole lot of touchdowns. Especially on the ground. So if they're going to try to get Gore over 100, which, I think is pretty fair speculation, all things considered, how many TD's, especially rushing TD's, does that leave for everyone else?

Just something to think about...

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6 minutes ago, nittanylion said:

How many TD's do we think the Dolphins are going to score? I think this is an pertinant question..

RZ scoring attempts per game rank over the past decade..

2007 - 27th

2008 - 20th

2009 - 13th

2010 - 31st

2011 - 12th

2012 - 28th

2013 - 23rd

2014 - 2nd

2015 - 26th

2016 - 24th

2017 - 29th

 

I'd bet on "not a lot" being the answer to that pertinent question. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

Gase handed to the job over the Foster the year he retired. You cannot be surprised that he plans to use Gore in some capacity. I would at least take solace in the fact that Ballage isn't some type of between the tackles grinder like Gore despite his size. But even then Ballage has run with the ones in camp at times. Maybe I haven't done enough research but I don't see Gase leaning on Drake but Drake's ADP does seems to reflect that. Maybe I just don't love his ceiling, especially in this offense. 

Elliot doesn't even take all the first team reps, so I wouldn't read too much into Gore and Ballage getting some. Bell hasn't gotten any work with the starters but I'm confident his role is secure. 

There is some concern of RBBC for the Dolphins. As far as I know Gase hasn't made any deceleration on behalf of Drake. But he's also getting drafted in the third around other running backs on the same canoe: Ajayi, Ingram, Penny, and Henry. 

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10 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Elliot doesn't even take all the first team reps, so I wouldn't read too much into Gore and Ballage getting some. Bell hasn't gotten any work with the starters but I'm confident his role is secure. 

There is some concern of RBBC for the Dolphins. As far as I know Gase hasn't made any deceleration on behalf of Drake. But he's also getting drafted in the third around other running backs on the same canoe: Ajayi, Ingram, Penny, and Henry. 

Drake is no Elliot or Bell, so what was the point of making that statement?

The whole point of me talking about this is because Drake is being overdrafted, and Gore is part of the reason why.

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I believe Drake is in for a good year due to Gase's past. He has never shown RBBC, he uses his rbs in the passing and has always given his lead dog the GL touches.

Look at Moreno while he was in Denver, Forte while he was in Chicago, Ajayi in Miami and last year Drake once he was the guy.

He wants his main back getting the load and his offenses have always been productive!

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to RB Kenyan Drake, LV

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