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Paul Perkins - RB - NYG (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Borden
- Start date
Against the Vikings, he had that 67 yard screen catch and run 2 weeks ago. Against the Packers, the anatomy of a successful 13-yard screen play. He seems to have good vision and cutting ability.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
It's amazing how many can see that Perkins has been the better back but McAdo cant. I'm not sure what impresses me less: this offense in year 2 with more weapons than 2015, or his sex offender looking mustache.
bostonfred
Footballguy
It looks like they drafted perkins as their rb of the future.
He had a late graduation so he couldn't go to rookie minicamps.
They felt they had a veteran team, ready to compete now, so they were committed to jennings as the all purpose back.
They also had big plans for vereen and were using him in new ways. remember, he had a huge game before getting hurt.
They also gave an extended look to andre williams before finally pulling that plug.
So practice reps were pretty limited in the preseason.
Then perkins had an awful preseason, which makes sense all things considered, but he certainly didn't rocket up the depth chart.
Then jennings got dinged and vereen was lost for season and they had rainey and darkwaa competing for starter time, when neither was really ready for that role.
Practice reps have been hard to come by until now. During the bye they had a chance to breathe and apparently one of their goals was to work with perkins more.
Assuming he didn't bomb the audition - and it doesn't sound like he did but you never know - he probably got enough reps to start getting game reps, which could earn him more practice reps quickly.
But the first game out of the bye is basically like his first preseason game, in terms of where they see him and the reps he's gotten. I would be happy to get anything out of him the next couple weeks but the big question will be what kind of role he is getting reps in.
I would be surprised if he comes in as a third down back, because he's still learning pass pro. i would be surprised if he took whole series. i would not be surprised if he were the first guy off the bench as a change of pace to jennings, and obviously the hope is that he can eventually replace jennings as a feature back so this could be a legit audition for a multi year gig. if it goes well.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Sure, practice is important. But how can you deny the game tape? It's a limited body of work, but he's done more than any of the other guys getting touches right now. This offense has been disappointing. They're not as good as their 2015 version despite having Shepard and Cruz this year, which isn't making a whole lot of sense. They were supposed to improve after another year in the system which obviously isn't happening. Common sense would say that if you have a player that can help jump start the offense, you use him. For the record, I'm not a Perkins owner. I've seen a bunch of the games and came away impressed with him each time.
groin pains
Footballguy
As a Giants fan, the Giants have to find a way to start getting this kid the ball. Yes, pass protection has been Perkins kryptonite. If he has shown improvement in pass pro, I believe this will be his job sooner than later.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I get it, but to play devil's advocate, you can't really pass the ball if your RB can't pick up the blitz and protect your QB.
Okay, let's put Jennings in on passing downs. Well, now you've just telegraphed your offense. I would think Perkins earns a bigger chunk of the pie, but that pie is being split between a number of RBs right now. He looks like the biggest spark out there for the running game, but he is a rookie and behind the learning curve in general.
zamboni
Footballguy
FWIW, OBJ seems to love Perkins.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/04/odell-beckhams-favorite-rookie-rb-can-save-giants-run-game/
http://nypost.com/2016/11/04/odell-beckhams-favorite-rookie-rb-can-save-giants-run-game/
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't think the problem is that he can't physically pick up or recognize the blitz, or that he can only come in on passing downs. It's that eli is one of those qbs who can change the play at the line of scrimmage which can drastically change blocking schemes, and he needs to quickly and accurately switch from play to play based on audibles or hand signals as well as make the actual block, and do it consistently enough that the team feels safe putting eli's safety in his hands.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
What is McAdoo's offense doing with all that talent? Doesn't seem like much. Is he getting criticism for playcalling? I watched (of course) the whole of the Saints-Giants game a few weeks back. The Saints D has improved maybe a tick recently but at that point they were like warm butter. And yet the Giants had no cohesion. The plays seemed random, someone would have a good catch or run and then they would disappear. Zero offensive TDs against the Saints defense, at home (ie in NJ) is kind of nuts. I haven't watched them much besides that single whole game and besides that Min game in which Perkins looked awesome in the open field and then.... nope he hasn't been given many more opps from what I can tell. Weird.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I haven't seen every Perkins play or anything, but I haven't seen anything special. Perkins isn't a special player. He is a late round pick, below average athlete for a RB, average college production. 10 carries for 39 yards which is a useless statistical sample. He has had 1 play: a 67 yard catch against the Vikings. It was a nice screen and he did a great job following his blockers and breaking a tackle. I just think with how little he has touched the ball and his background, I can't expect him to perform better than the other pool of Giants RBs.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
BigBlue_RI
Footballguy
Another year of Jerry Reese using mid-late Rd picks on a RB. David Wilson was such a questionable pick back when it was made in 1st rd, and probably could have waited on. Never understood the Jennings signing and the money spent on Vereen. All of This is why (among other reasons) Reese has to be shown the door end of this year.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Eli Manning SUCKS. I owned him for the last 3 years in dynasty and he's the main reason I sold OBJ for Evans a couple weeks ago. He is running that team in to the ground with his terrible play and I foresee the next 2-3 years going the same with the front office unwilling to disrespect him with a demotion or trade.
BigBlue_RI
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Eli is a tricky one. He has the rings and has had huge games. On the other hand, he's only finished top 10 in QB rating once. He is ranked 17th among current QBs in QB rating. I see Eli more as an average QB that has come through big in big moments. Cruz was good. Are we sure he's still good after recovering from that horrible injury?
Why are we so sure Sterling is a good NFL player right now? He looked great in his senior season at Oklahoma, but he was 22. Most NFL WRs are in their 2nd NFL season at 22. Beckham turned 23 TODAY. He played 2.5 NFL seasons at a younger age or the same age as Shepard was playing in college. In the last 4 games, Shepard has been targeted 29 times and has 101 yards to show for it. That is 3.4 yards per target. It is abysmal. On top of that, his catch rate is just 51%. I dare someone to find another starting NFL WR who has been that bad over a 4 week period this year. Maybe Michael Floyd? Ok, it's not fair to toss out his 3 good games. Including those, he is averaging 10.8 yards per target. 93rd in the NFL. I do not think we can say Shepard is a good NFL player. He might eventually be, but not right now.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok fair enough. I probably foolishly bought into preseason predictions this would be a hot offense to own in. It's never happened.
flysack
Footballguy
Watch some college video of his... his cuts and lateral movement is ridiculous. Almost video game quality, like Ajayi. Also, read the article that was just posted above... OBJ goes on at great length about those same qualities. He's a much better fit than anyone else they have on that team in terms of their blocking (or lack thereof). He could become a solid flex play if his touches increase as is being predicted.
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mnmplayer
Footballguy
I never saw Gale Sayers play, also never saw anything special, but I heard he was pretty good. (sorry to pile on)
Unlike his brother, Eli isn't good enough to a run a 1 dimensional offense, even with talented WRs that are probably the best in the league in sum. Even if you discount Cruz/Shep Peyton Manning would be killing it at Eli's age with just ODB as his only legit threat (with no running game) as he utilized Harrison for years raising both to elite level stat production in fantasy, even if they couldn't go all the way most years in real football. Eli doesn't have the kind of skill recognizing/dissecting a defense, nor that kind of precise execution/chemistry with ODB. He also has rarely shown that kind of focus during season games which makes me think he also lacks that kind of focus in daily practice routines, which is required to raise your execution to elite levels. Manning/Harrison would have daily routines that would last hours with just them running the route trees for hours, and during pre-game. I don;t see that from Manning/ODB, but maybe it happens in secret. It's not showing up on the field.
The Tyree catch really bailed him out if you ask me in the Superbowl, along with the 49er fumble getting NYG there along the way IIRC. I remember that painful muffed punt like it was yesterday. NYG should not have even been there imo. Nobody remembers Eli's good fortune, they just say he won Superbowls (with a lot of help on D too). Anyway, He's not as good as his rings imo. Eli is the kind of QB that will melt down at times, and strikes me as a whinny type that has all kinds of excuses in the film room and reasons not to take on challenges to take his game to the next level. I mean he started his career telling SD he would not even play there if they drafted him. Whinny ##### if you ask me. So he plays for the biggest market in NY now, and he's lived off the rep of his dad/brother to open doors for him. I believe if his name was not Manning we wouldn't even know who he was and he wouldn't be playing in the NFL anymore. Wow did I just say that? I guess I did. His leash is super (manning) long. His lifetime TD/INT ratio is no better than a lot of guys that fizzled out. In this era, his yards are even sub elite, and his record is barely above .500. HE does as much damage with his INTs that he does with his TDs and he has some early years where his INTs were more than his TDs. It took him a decade of play to get a decent TD/INT ratio for the season. And notice those were 6-10 season's so alot of that was during garbage time. How many guys not named Manning would get the amount of chances he got with that type of play? Colin Kaepernick is the butt of jokes on these boards in reading defenses and poor QB play, yet he has a much better lifetime TD/INT ratio than Eli Manning. In my eyes he's a better QB, especially considering his rushing ability and the WR he played with as compared to Manning's career, and if one or two plays broke his way, he's be the one with 2 Superbowl rings during that 3 year window with Harbaugh.
Anyway, they need at least the threat of a running game, much like Cutler or the mass INTs will come. Perkins may not be the answer, but he is the best chance they got this season on their roster, and is worth trying at this point in the season.
Unlike his brother, Eli isn't good enough to a run a 1 dimensional offense, even with talented WRs that are probably the best in the league in sum. Even if you discount Cruz/Shep Peyton Manning would be killing it at Eli's age with just ODB as his only legit threat (with no running game) as he utilized Harrison for years raising both to elite level stat production in fantasy, even if they couldn't go all the way most years in real football. Eli doesn't have the kind of skill recognizing/dissecting a defense, nor that kind of precise execution/chemistry with ODB. He also has rarely shown that kind of focus during season games which makes me think he also lacks that kind of focus in daily practice routines, which is required to raise your execution to elite levels. Manning/Harrison would have daily routines that would last hours with just them running the route trees for hours, and during pre-game. I don;t see that from Manning/ODB, but maybe it happens in secret. It's not showing up on the field.
The Tyree catch really bailed him out if you ask me in the Superbowl, along with the 49er fumble getting NYG there along the way IIRC. I remember that painful muffed punt like it was yesterday. NYG should not have even been there imo. Nobody remembers Eli's good fortune, they just say he won Superbowls (with a lot of help on D too). Anyway, He's not as good as his rings imo. Eli is the kind of QB that will melt down at times, and strikes me as a whinny type that has all kinds of excuses in the film room and reasons not to take on challenges to take his game to the next level. I mean he started his career telling SD he would not even play there if they drafted him. Whinny ##### if you ask me. So he plays for the biggest market in NY now, and he's lived off the rep of his dad/brother to open doors for him. I believe if his name was not Manning we wouldn't even know who he was and he wouldn't be playing in the NFL anymore. Wow did I just say that? I guess I did. His leash is super (manning) long. His lifetime TD/INT ratio is no better than a lot of guys that fizzled out. In this era, his yards are even sub elite, and his record is barely above .500. HE does as much damage with his INTs that he does with his TDs and he has some early years where his INTs were more than his TDs. It took him a decade of play to get a decent TD/INT ratio for the season. And notice those were 6-10 season's so alot of that was during garbage time. How many guys not named Manning would get the amount of chances he got with that type of play? Colin Kaepernick is the butt of jokes on these boards in reading defenses and poor QB play, yet he has a much better lifetime TD/INT ratio than Eli Manning. In my eyes he's a better QB, especially considering his rushing ability and the WR he played with as compared to Manning's career, and if one or two plays broke his way, he's be the one with 2 Superbowl rings during that 3 year window with Harbaugh.
Anyway, they need at least the threat of a running game, much like Cutler or the mass INTs will come. Perkins may not be the answer, but he is the best chance they got this season on their roster, and is worth trying at this point in the season.
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HW_53
Footballguy
Perkins is one back I really like out of those worth considering on the waiver wire.. He may not have the pedigree, but, he just seems to have 'it', and passes the eye test fairly easily.. I picked up Starks instead of him, mainly because the tea leaves weren't blowing his way, combined with the Giants overall offensive ineptitude and backfield competition.. Wouldn't mind making a spot for him though..
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I think you guys are incorrectly reading llove80s post. Llove80 doesn't say he has never seen him play. Llove80said "I haven't seen Perkin's every play", meaning he hasn't seen EVERY play by Perkins, but what llove80 has seen wasn't that special.....just wasn't written very clearly.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I don't like the nothing special analysis or the JAG analysis for any player, because that does not really tell the reader anything. It is lazy analysis and it is as useful as saying nothing at all about the player imo.
Instead of saying this, I think it would be an improvement to state specifically what you thought the player does not do well enough. For example from what I have seen of Perkins is that he lacks power to move a pile, He has terrific change of direction ability, but asking him to put his head down and gain yards after contact isn't really a strong point of his game based on my observations of his play.
There is some statistical analysis of Perkins that shows him doing well with gaining yards after contact, which refutes my eye test observations of him at the college level. So I take that into consideration, it is possible, as I have not watched all of his games and perhaps I missed some key plays that would cause me to have a different opinion about him.When I am making observations like this, it is pretty relative as well. From the 2016 rookie draft class, there were several other RB who showed me more power than I have seen from Perkins. So when I say he is average or below average in this category, I mean that many of the other RB from his draft class showed me more examples of running with power than I have seen from Perkins. If I were to compare Perkins to another group of RB, it is possible that he could be considered above average relative to those other players. Based on my observations of Perkins, I consider him average to below average in the category of power compared to all of the RB I have watched over the years and also compared to other RB in his draft class, such as Booker, Dixon, Howard, and obviously Henry. I would say Perkins has more power than DeAndre Washington has though.
His big play against the Vikings shows his skills translating to the NFL level. He made several defenders miss on this play. He is exceptional when out in space. He can string multiple cuts together in succession, showing good balance, footwork and elusiveness in the open field.
The problem is getting him out in space as I think he is average or below average at running between the tackles and making the most of running plays when not much is there.
Because of this deficiency I question if he can be a featured RB for more than a few games at a time or if he may always be a COP or part of a committee. I lean more towards him being a useful member of a RBBC that features his strengths in space, while using a different RB on early downs and running between the tackles. Because of this perspective, I thought Vereen was more an obstacle for him earning playing time than Jennings, whos role is not really what Perkins does best.
For Perkins to become the passing down specialist, he needs to improve on his pass protection, to be a complete player in this role, now that Vereen is injured. So that is the challenge for him to gain more playing time in this role as a rookie.
Players do change after entering the NFL. It is entirely possible that Perkins improves as a runner between the tackles and gaining yards after contact in time. I just have not seen evidence of him doing this based on the cuts ups of him that I observed, which are incomplete.
Instead of saying this, I think it would be an improvement to state specifically what you thought the player does not do well enough. For example from what I have seen of Perkins is that he lacks power to move a pile, He has terrific change of direction ability, but asking him to put his head down and gain yards after contact isn't really a strong point of his game based on my observations of his play.
There is some statistical analysis of Perkins that shows him doing well with gaining yards after contact, which refutes my eye test observations of him at the college level. So I take that into consideration, it is possible, as I have not watched all of his games and perhaps I missed some key plays that would cause me to have a different opinion about him.When I am making observations like this, it is pretty relative as well. From the 2016 rookie draft class, there were several other RB who showed me more power than I have seen from Perkins. So when I say he is average or below average in this category, I mean that many of the other RB from his draft class showed me more examples of running with power than I have seen from Perkins. If I were to compare Perkins to another group of RB, it is possible that he could be considered above average relative to those other players. Based on my observations of Perkins, I consider him average to below average in the category of power compared to all of the RB I have watched over the years and also compared to other RB in his draft class, such as Booker, Dixon, Howard, and obviously Henry. I would say Perkins has more power than DeAndre Washington has though.
His big play against the Vikings shows his skills translating to the NFL level. He made several defenders miss on this play. He is exceptional when out in space. He can string multiple cuts together in succession, showing good balance, footwork and elusiveness in the open field.
The problem is getting him out in space as I think he is average or below average at running between the tackles and making the most of running plays when not much is there.
Because of this deficiency I question if he can be a featured RB for more than a few games at a time or if he may always be a COP or part of a committee. I lean more towards him being a useful member of a RBBC that features his strengths in space, while using a different RB on early downs and running between the tackles. Because of this perspective, I thought Vereen was more an obstacle for him earning playing time than Jennings, whos role is not really what Perkins does best.
For Perkins to become the passing down specialist, he needs to improve on his pass protection, to be a complete player in this role, now that Vereen is injured. So that is the challenge for him to gain more playing time in this role as a rookie.
Players do change after entering the NFL. It is entirely possible that Perkins improves as a runner between the tackles and gaining yards after contact in time. I just have not seen evidence of him doing this based on the cuts ups of him that I observed, which are incomplete.
grateful zed
Footballguy
but, is he special?
acjohnson83
Footballguy
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
shadyridr
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Crystalsteam99
Footballguy
You made a bad choice!!!!!! Lacey couldn't put up good numbers,what makes you think Starks will...Starks sucked before his injury,and he certainly won;t be any better after his injury and has little upside on a pass 1st team.. Big mistake not taking Perkins,he's the kind of add that can help your team,NOT Starks...Get Perkins while you still have a chance.You won't be able to get him after this week IMO.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
mnmplayer
Footballguy
I am in the same situation. I cannot pick him up in any leagues right now as the league I was going to pick him up in C West is all the sudden valuable during a tough bye week, so I have no room. Perkins might do enough that he costs FAAB next week, but not likely. It's rare that the only missing piece to a puzzle is a rookie RB to make the running game elite, but they need to try something or the Eli meltdowns will come..
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
He is getting a lot of work. He has had zero room to do anything. Defenders in the backfield on all but one run, which was still stopped early.
the encouraging thing is he is getting more opportunity. No way to evaluate what he can actually do in this game(so far)
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Had a couple decent runs toward the end of the game. Nothing amazing.
will need to see the official snap count, but he was in the game a lot, including late into the game until the very last (real) play.
will need to see the official snap count, but he was in the game a lot, including late into the game until the very last (real) play.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
He got the same amount of touches as Jennings. It appears we have an equal timeshare situation in a team that can't run the ball.
