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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶♂️ (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Here’s a link that explains things better than I can
https://idmprogram.com/myth-exercise-exercise-part-1/
And don’t get me wrong, exercise is important but not for long term weight loss
https://idmprogram.com/myth-exercise-exercise-part-1/
And don’t get me wrong, exercise is important but not for long term weight loss
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm on board. Like I said above, I'm not going to go crazy, but I am going to watch what I'm shoving in my face more closely. Poisitve update in 3..2..1...
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Day 61/100
Worked overnight last night for the first time in a couple of weeks, so I was too wiped out to exercise when I got home this morning. I still kept thinking that that 220 was some kind of weird water-weight fluke, so when I woke up today, I did weigh-in again- 215.6. So, down another lb since yesterday. I really do think my body is still shaking off all the food and activity from camp week. I'm still going to watch my diet alot more closely. I'd like to be under 210 when this thing wraps up in 39 more days. That should be very doable.
Today I did a 20min Beach Body workout, and now I get to go work overnight again. Yay!
Bank: $610
Worked overnight last night for the first time in a couple of weeks, so I was too wiped out to exercise when I got home this morning. I still kept thinking that that 220 was some kind of weird water-weight fluke, so when I woke up today, I did weigh-in again- 215.6. So, down another lb since yesterday. I really do think my body is still shaking off all the food and activity from camp week. I'm still going to watch my diet alot more closely. I'd like to be under 210 when this thing wraps up in 39 more days. That should be very doable.
Today I did a 20min Beach Body workout, and now I get to go work overnight again. Yay!
Bank: $610
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Down 54 pounds. Boom
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Please enlighten us. Being serious - nobody in here treats this like the PSF. If you have science or even anecdotal evidence that you want to share please do so. I don’t think it’s thats controversial to say that weight loss is 90% (or so) what you eat. There’s a lot of science behind it now. But we are a jovial bunch in here - any not like Santa fat jovial.
I honestly had never even really heard your argument before and I googled and found a lot of links supporting it, who knew? In any case, I'm not a scientist, just a healthy, active person. I've never had to lose weight so I don't come at it from that angle.
Here's an article that sums up the points I had in my head pretty well.
https://www.fitnessmagazine.com/workout/lose-weight/burn-fat/10-reasons-why-exercise-makes-you-thin-or-why-time-magazine-got-it-wrong/
I think long term weight loss will be much easier to sustain when a reasonably healthy diet is combined with some exercise. I kinda think people want to believe that exercise doesn't matter because it's the easy way out.
Just my 2 cents.
ETA: I read the first portion of the article you linked to and a lot of it didn't make much sense to me.
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Otis
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
54 more to go.
Going tomorrow to meet with my Doc (under a Dr supervised diet) to apply for a contest that Optifast (the meal replacement shakes and bars I have) has that if they select you theh fly you out to NY and get some cash and do some event stuff then they use you for marketing. It would be fun to win.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
For weight lose itself excercise is minimal. The major loss of weight or lack of it will be from diet. My doctor put it along the lines of "if you work really hard an exercise alot and do a decently good diet your weight loss will never really be more than 20% from exercise" you can see that from biking, for example, a steady pace of 14 mph will burn 48 calories per mile. 48.
It does help in a number of ways though. It helps get your metabolism up in general and for me it is a huge part of keeping focused and driven. I haven't been able to excercise like I have been over the last couple of weeks because my back has been hurting and I can feel it more. The food struggle is much harder than when I have my minimum 30 min of swinming in each day.
Also, losing weight should be about getting healthy and getting healthy without excercise isn't going to happen.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Don't know if diet is 90% of the formula for losing weight but it is very important and seems to be more important as we age. Exercise is important to improve your overall health and improves my mood. Restricting diets are not fun and are difficult to maintain.Tool said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
@Chadstroma - congrats man, that is awesome! I think a general consensus of this thread is everyone needs to do a plan that works for them - we have people in here who are vegetarians, doing calorie restriction (CICO), Keto/LCHF and many just eating “healthy”. Curious what plan the doc has you on. Keep it up!
RUSF18
Footballguy
For a lot of people, the "easy way out" is to think they don't need to be strict with their diet because they spent 30 minutes on the elliptical and jogged another mile a few days a week, compared to being diligent and making good food choices during the 16 hours a day they are awake.
culdeus
Footballguy
Tons of discussion on exercise over the years here. In my mind it's settled science. I would always advise doing low intensity cardio while in a major cut. Neat Liss whatever you kids call it.
Exercise should be seen as a tool to add muscle, strength, or conditioning. Not as a calorie license. For those with portion control issues medium intensity exercise especially (treadmill elliptical running around the block etc.) Can make the already difficult cut even harder.
Exercise should be seen as a tool to add muscle, strength, or conditioning. Not as a calorie license. For those with portion control issues medium intensity exercise especially (treadmill elliptical running around the block etc.) Can make the already difficult cut even harder.
Fair, I'm arguing that it's closer to equal weight diet and exercise. Regardless of the %'s, I think exercising is necessary to be healthy and also allows for a little cheating on the diet as I think that's important too to sustain a healthy habit.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Exercise is undoubtedly important for being healthy, but for the type of exercise most people do, its almost negligible for losing weight. There's really just a very small percentage of middle aged people that are exercising their way out of a poor diet. On the other hand, with a solid diet, almost anyone can lose weight without doing a drop of exercise.
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Otis
Footballguy
I’m obviously far from expert on this, but this is why I believe weight training is SO, SO, SO much more important than cardio for overall health and weight loss. Putting on a bunch of muscle does a couple of things. First, it gives you more lean mass which needs more calories to survive and can increase your metabolic rate all day long. That’s one of those no-brainer benefits - it even helps when you’re sleeping. Big dividends. But also as we age it becomes harder and harder to stay strong, even for the basic functional strength needed to perform regular daily tasks around the house. This dawned on me two years ago and I wish I had come to the realization a few years prior, but it is what it is. I will continue to lift through my 40s, and hopefully beyond, because it will only get harder to put on muscle with each passing day.
That said, to your point, I agree it’s 80% diet. Which is why I still walk around with 20lbs of extra fat I’d rather not have. It’s a nut I still need to crack, but I’m working at it. Eventually I’ll get there.
Otis
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Thank you. After all the past attempts and failures. This is not only going to happen, it is. No doubt in my mind which is a huge change from feeling defeated and thinking "well, I guess I am fat for the rest of my life".AAABatteries said:
It is a medically supervised diet. Thinfast MD in Naperville, IL. Meal replacement (Optifast) for breakfast and lunch (bar or shake). Prescription pills to control appetite (phentermine and vitabese). Dinner is basically keto... protein and certain veggies. Snack is pistachio, cashew or pecans. I get biweekly shots of testosterone and vitamin B... and they just added some enzyme thing to the vitamin B to help with getting the harder fat. Been doing swimming mostly but lifting too, but back is sore the last couple of weeks so haven't been able to do gym. Some spray stuff under my tongue for when I work out that is suppose to help with energy and metabolism but I dont feel a difference. Only drink water. Lots of it.
A bunch of things have made a difference but the testosterone was a big deal. No idea how low it was (Dr said it was so low it was that of a hundred year old man). I looked at all the side effects of low testosterone and other than ED pretty much was everything that I have beem dealing with and didn't know why.
Other two things out of line were blood pressure and both my good and bad cholesterol were low. Have not retested cholesterol yet but BP is significantly down. (First appointment he said if it was 20 points higher he would have called an ambulance and had me go straight to ER).
Chadstroma
Footballguy
As for excercise, I think you need a balance. All muscle building and no cardio then two problems I think 1) You are missing out on a lot of health benefits of building your cardio up with your heart etc. 2) You are not using the built muscle to burn the fuel in cardio. And then vice versa if you do cardio you are never going to burn as much as you could with some muscle building.Otis said:
I love swimming. It is both muscle building for the resistance of water and cardio. Personally, I can push myself there much more than any other excercise short of playing a sport (which I am not ready for again yet). I do add in some weight resistance lifting to further build muscle strength as swimming is more of a cardio than strength building. I pay much more a month for a place nearby home with a pool and very few nice scenery to view. 80% of the people there are elderly but in the other end I don't have to deal with a ##### meatheads either.
Steeler
Footballguy
I'll weigh in on the diet VS workout debate with my own anecdotal story. I'm 6'2 and weighed 221 on 12/15/18 and couldn't work out at the time. I got down to 199 on 4/4/19 with dietary changes alone and now fluctuate between 196 and 200. I'm finally able to start working out again so I'm going to continue the diet that has kept me at my goal weight of ~199. Also, my bad cholesterol went from 154 to 101 which was pretty exciting.
Dietary changes were basically Keto / Paleo (under 50 grams of carbs per day and "never" over 100) - I eat nearly zero soda, bread, pasta, rice, etc., increased healthy fats, WAY increased the number of veggies I was eating (this was something I always overlooked in previous attempts to go low carb), protein is mostly chicken or fish and sometimes beef/pork. Before it was mostly beef/pork and sometimes chicken/fish. If I want to cheat it's usually just one meal per day so that's been good. When the scale creeps up to 200 I lock back in with no cheating and it's been working for almost 4 months now. Like Chad said, this time it seems different mentally - this time it sure seems like I will be able to stick with it. Gonna add working out to the mix and see where that takes me in terms of the diet/weight and go from there.
Dietary changes were basically Keto / Paleo (under 50 grams of carbs per day and "never" over 100) - I eat nearly zero soda, bread, pasta, rice, etc., increased healthy fats, WAY increased the number of veggies I was eating (this was something I always overlooked in previous attempts to go low carb), protein is mostly chicken or fish and sometimes beef/pork. Before it was mostly beef/pork and sometimes chicken/fish. If I want to cheat it's usually just one meal per day so that's been good. When the scale creeps up to 200 I lock back in with no cheating and it's been working for almost 4 months now. Like Chad said, this time it seems different mentally - this time it sure seems like I will be able to stick with it. Gonna add working out to the mix and see where that takes me in terms of the diet/weight and go from there.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Day 62/100
Worked last night. Was curious if I had dropped any more water weight, so I stepped on the scale again when I woke up- 214.6. So from Monday morning to Wednesday morning, there's a difference of 5.4lbs. Crazy... Anyway, nothing special today. Played 18holes of disc golf for my activity. Not sure what I'll do tomorrow. Probably weights at the gym.
Bank: $620
Worked last night. Was curious if I had dropped any more water weight, so I stepped on the scale again when I woke up- 214.6. So from Monday morning to Wednesday morning, there's a difference of 5.4lbs. Crazy... Anyway, nothing special today. Played 18holes of disc golf for my activity. Not sure what I'll do tomorrow. Probably weights at the gym.
Bank: $620
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Day 63/100
Had a really good day at the gym. Did 20 mins of sprints, then chest/back/arms. Seemed like I made a big jump in my lifting for some reason, as far as weight vs reps. Felt really good. When I got home, I decided to step on the scale again. Granted, this was right after a workout, and I hadn't had anything to drink yet, but I was 212.8. Down 7.2lbs since Monday morning. So strange... Feels like I'm on keto again.
Bank: $630
Had a really good day at the gym. Did 20 mins of sprints, then chest/back/arms. Seemed like I made a big jump in my lifting for some reason, as far as weight vs reps. Felt really good. When I got home, I decided to step on the scale again. Granted, this was right after a workout, and I hadn't had anything to drink yet, but I was 212.8. Down 7.2lbs since Monday morning. So strange... Feels like I'm on keto again.
Bank: $630
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Day 64/100
Started feeling a little bit of pain in my ankle, and it flared up again today. Quick Google search points to peroneal tendonitis. With that in mind, I took it easy today, with a 20 min low impact cardio/yoga workout. Going to heat/ice it tonight. Tomorrow I plan on running 2.2 miles, then in the afternoon I'm going whitewater rafting.
Bank: $640
Started feeling a little bit of pain in my ankle, and it flared up again today. Quick Google search points to peroneal tendonitis. With that in mind, I took it easy today, with a 20 min low impact cardio/yoga workout. Going to heat/ice it tonight. Tomorrow I plan on running 2.2 miles, then in the afternoon I'm going whitewater rafting.
Bank: $640
culdeus
Footballguy
This is a stretch. They actually co2 test endurance athletes and this would be above the tour riders. I suppose if you are 300# it's possible. They tend to weigh a buck thirty.
Heart rate and intensity matter more than speed. Crushing insane watts in zone 5 is 600/hr. Most Joe's out for a ride are 300-400/hr tops.
NutterButter
Footballguy
I'm about an 18 mile per hour rider at 195lbs and any calculator or chart I've seen would put me at 800-900/hr which is right around DropKicks estimate. I'm certainly more fit than your average weekend warrior but its not like I'm one of these cats training for semi-amateur racing putting in 15 hours per week. Its been awhile since I've worn a monitor but I would say I'm consistently around low 170's with that spiking on a climb and dropping back down in the flats.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
That’s awesome - I’m unclear on the numbers and for the discussion we were having I would say it doesn’t matter - 1. 80-95% of people aren’t doing that level of exercise routinely and 2. Even for those that are the point isn’t that someone burns half a pound - it’s that when you do high intensity workouts you cause hunger and have to refuel or you are miserable.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Basically nobody is saying if you eat 1,500 calories a day and bike 3 hours you won’t lose weight - of course you will. The point is probably less than 1% of the population could stick to that.
culdeus
Footballguy
Watts matter. This is a great example of this showing a few tour rider stages. Non serious riders usually average about 2W/kg. Serious are like 2.5.
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-analysis-2015-tour-de-france-week-1/
Just saying be careful assuming those burn rates.
If this has been discussed already forgive me but you seemed to be focused on weight. I mean don't people want to lose weight to be healthier? Exercise is an important part of getting healthy. People might weigh more than others but could still be much healthier. So why not focus on both?
NutterButter
Footballguy
To a degree. Like I just finished a 1.5 hour ride. I'd say roughly I burned 1200 calories and I think that's on the low end b/c I'm a relatively big guy in the cycling community. I'm not sitting down now and eating a 1200 calorie meal. I'll probably have a bowl of cottage cheese and blueberries. Maybe its just me but I'll be fine until like 12 comes along and I'll probably have something like chicken and broccoli. I'll never be miserable eating like that every two 2-3 hours but whether I actually stick to that will determine if I can counterbalance last nights post-weed smoking binge
. Nutella is just so darn delicious.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Absolutely. I never cared enough to invest in a power meter but I know I'm burning more than 300-400 calories per hour. I mean that's like a speed walking burn rate.culdeus said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I exercise all the time and think everyone should - if you are big and fat and trying to lose weight I wouldn’t recommend it. That’s all.Tool said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Now imagine you are 50-100 pounds overweight and eat #### all the time - you are addicted to sugar and processed crap. I guarantee you most people don’t go eat blueberries and cottage cheese and are happy - at least not for weeks/months until they lose the weight and change they’re set point. They will do 1/4 of the work you did and then reward themselves with a biscuit from McDonald’s or Bojangles.NutterButter said:To a degree. Like I just finished a 1.5 hour ride. I'd say roughly I burned 1200 calories and I think that's on the low end b/c I'm a relatively big guy in the cycling community. I'm not sitting down now and eating a 1200 calorie meal. I'll probably have a bowl of cottage cheese and blueberries. Maybe its just me but I'll be fine until like 12 comes along and I'll probably have something like chicken and broccoli. I'll never be miserable eating like that every two 2-3 hours but whether I actually stick to that will determine if I can counterbalance last nights post-weed smoking binge
NutterButter
Footballguy
I'd rather not.
I know what you're getting at and I'm a big believer in that diet is 80% (if not more of the battle). Back before I got my diet in check, I use to go on similar rides (not as hard b/c I wasn't in as good a shape) and then I'd stop afterwards and get a meatball sub or some chinese food and shockingly I never lost weight. And cottage cheese is effing delicious. I posted a month back about it when I first gave it a shot after 42 years on this mudball. Boy was I missing out. Now I pick up 2 containers weekly from costco. I could certainly eat in without the blueberries but apparently blueberries are really good for you so I throw them in.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Day 65/100
Intended to wake up early and get a run in, then make the 2+ hour drive up to Tennessee to go whitewater rafting. Had a tough time dragging ### out of bed, so I woke up too late and had to go ahead and leave. I was hoping that the rafting would be strenuous enough to count as my activity. It really wasn't. Had a great time, but intermittent paddling didn't get the job done. After rafting, we went and had dinner. I actually left a little early to make the drive back so I would have enough time for a workout. Got home about 2245, was out the door by 2300 for a 2.5 mile run. The streak lives...
Bank: $650
Intended to wake up early and get a run in, then make the 2+ hour drive up to Tennessee to go whitewater rafting. Had a tough time dragging ### out of bed, so I woke up too late and had to go ahead and leave. I was hoping that the rafting would be strenuous enough to count as my activity. It really wasn't. Had a great time, but intermittent paddling didn't get the job done. After rafting, we went and had dinner. I actually left a little early to make the drive back so I would have enough time for a workout. Got home about 2245, was out the door by 2300 for a 2.5 mile run. The streak lives...
Bank: $650
DropKick
Footballguy
I guess I'm not a "Joe" out for a ride. At 180 pounds, I'll do a 32 mile ride in just over two hours. Speed varies based on road surface, wind, elevation change or whether I'm training for distance (spinning intermediate gears) or feel like hammering. Bottom line is that its a workout not a leisurely thing.
Using the calorie calculator from https://www.mapmyride.com/improve/calorie_calculator, they calculate over 2,000 calories for the ride above. 1,700 for some of my spinning rides. I'll do a century ride next week they project at 6,600 calories. Interestingly, this site factors in age and the calories are 200-300 higher for me than a 30 year old (600 on the 100 miler). Most of the calculators I've used are consistent and I don't question their accuracy
Speaking of the Tour de France, this is from a article talking about how much you have to eat: "This can be anything from 5,000 calories a day on a flat stage to 7,000 calories on a hilly stage. Guzzling around 6,000 calories a day might sound blissful, but the reality of consuming such huge quantities of food day in, day out for three weeks presents one of the biggest challenges for the riders".
I don't expect the average guy to hammer but any activity is good activity. My response above was to advocate the role of exercise in weight loss/control.
Eat like a King
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DropKick
Footballguy
Exactly.
I've known a couple very big guys (400+) that insisted they could do it all on diet alone. I suspect they had their reasons (that I couldn't relate to...) for avoiding exercise but my advice was to start small and establish a regular routine that would develop into a commitment. Even if that exercise was just walking 3 times a week, you could steadily build upon it and increase distance and/or intensity one day a week.
