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Otis fad diet thread — Also rowing, yoga and pillows (and let’s not be fat)


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Ww is 10/20 a month?   I don't do anything related to meetings message boards coaching.

Other than posting here.

You can choose to track excercise or not. I track it but choose to not count it against my budget others do 

With ww I select bacon and the amount and am done.  

I've done mfp before and it works great but to me was a little bit "more work"; tracking calories plus the other fat/protein/sugars etc.

If just doing cico it's fine.

Ww just feels easier to track :shrug:

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Woke up today at 324.6 lbs.  Down 29.4 lbs since the end of November.  At this point all I've done is change my eating habits. Smaller portions, better choices, as little refined sugar as possible, tr

Finally reached my first goal of 208 lbs I'd set based on the trainer's body fat measurements.  Far from obese but I'm not exactly svelte either.  Will lose another pound or two so I'm firmly below 20

I see the obvious problem here. A guy whose magnum opus on FBGs starts with "so I loan this chick I don't know 3 racks" called BS on me for saying I averaged a loss of 8 lbs a week on a diet. That is 

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2 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Yes, absolutely.

Regarding potatoes, on the plan where you get the fewest daily/weekly points, potatoes are a zero point food.  On my plan, which is the “middle one,” a medium, plain baked potato would cost me 21-22% of my daily points, or about 18.5% if you add the weeklies equally spread out over each day.  Not sure about the third plan.

ETA:  Of course for a dude or bigger person, that potato would account for a smaller percentage.

I mean there are no longitudinal studies of this approach.  This is absolutely all-in if they are going this route.  I think the science is very iffy for people on a restriction.  I've been dabbling in this approach to do a lean gain.  Eating as much high S food as I can possibly stomach.  

You can see where approaches differed 

https://imgur.com/a/5huXcgI

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4 minutes ago, culdeus said:

They are all in on the satiety science.  When did this happen?   

If they are all in on that they need to recognize perhaps the differences in Fructose and Glucose uptake, which will add needless complexity.  I would have left the fruits as counting in all plans tbh.  

The fruits are what I find most befuddling, especially bananas and pineapple.  On the vegetable side I’m surprised corn is zero points.

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3 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I mean there are no longitudinal studies of this approach.  This is absolutely all-in if they are going this route.  I think the science is very iffy for people on a restriction.  I've been dabbling in this approach to do a lean gain.  Eating as much high S food as I can possibly stomach.  

You can see where approaches differed 

https://imgur.com/a/5huXcgI

It was a very recent change for them to go to the three options for plans.  Before a month or two ago, the only option was the plan I’m using. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

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3 minutes ago, krista4 said:

The fruits are what I find most befuddling, especially bananas and pineapple.  On the vegetable side I’m surprised corn is zero points.

Corn has sucrose in raw form.  The fructose they make syrup out of is not what you get your calories from eating a cob.  

As it is it's pretty minor content.  This probably goes back their net carb philosophy in zeroeing it 

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2 minutes ago, krista4 said:

It was a very recent change for them to go to the three options for plans.  Before a month or two ago, the only option was the plan I’m using. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

Well I'm trying to mini-max their blue plan then.  Had no idea.  Trying to get to 185 from 171 without looking like I did the last time I hit 185.

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1 minute ago, culdeus said:

Corn has sucrose in raw form.  The fructose they make syrup out of is not what you get your calories from eating a cob.  

As it is it's pretty minor content.  This probably goes back their net carb philosophy in zeroeing it 

Thanks, that makes sense.

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For anyone interested in swimming, I bought a Delphin Hydroactive today.

While (imo) swimming is the best cardio activity, swimming laps gets real boring and music is a must. Unfortunately, bluetooth and underwater streaming don't go together, making listening to music while swimming much harder. This device is like a miniature ipod shuffle that I can use my Amazon Music on, download a playlist, and swim (it's a miniature waterproof tablet). As opposed to an MP3 player, I can update the playlists easily with wifi. I'm pretty excited to see if it works as advertised. 

I'll provide a review in a week or two. 

 

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27 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Yes, absolutely.

Regarding potatoes, on the plan where you get the fewest daily/weekly points, potatoes are a zero point food.  On my plan, which is the “middle one,” a medium, plain baked potato would cost me 21-22% of my daily points, or about 18.5% if you add the weeklies equally spread out over each day.  Not sure about the third plan.

ETA:  Of course for a dude or bigger person, that potato would account for a smaller percentage.

Well I asked about potato because I was curious where they were curve fitting them in.

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/10/09/calculating-satiety/

This isn't the best Ted talk on the topic, but does have pretty pictures to share and shows why they would 0 point potatoes if all in on this concept.    

I still feel like this is more appropriate for a lean bulk than a cut, but I certainly cut on high SI foods also, but kept to a very tight macro range.

 

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1 hour ago, krista4 said:

As a last point, it seems odd for you to say you’re not “crapping on” WW when your first post from yesterday stated you think it’s “scammy” and “fake science.” ;) 

Whoa there Nelly, I didn't say that it is scammy or fake science.  I said that converting calories to points seems scammy and seems like fake science when i heard about it so I wanted to learn more about it. 

I had always been under the impression that points had a nearly one to one ratio with calories where a point was about 50-75 calories.  Your example with ground beef worked out to about that ratio too. 

But it sounds like there's more to it than calories with satiety and fat content and so on.  That's the special sauce I was asking about.  And I totally get that people want to use whatever has been successful for them in the past. It makes a little more sense now.  

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4 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Re-weigh yourself at the end of the week for a more accurate starting point. It'll be a few days before all that bloat works itself out, so any measure between the 1st and then is flawed. I'm going to do my first weigh-in since mid December on Wednesday, but that's because my diet's been relatively clean since the 2nd. 6 days should be enough for all that water weight to subside.

Still waiting on my official starting weigh-in.  It was a bad (yet glorious) two weeks.

:whistle:

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I mean this satiety thing goes a really long way to unifying the Taubes/Guanyet schools of thought.  

I do worry it's a little too much curve fitting to try and find a compromise between the two major schools of thought from the past decade.  

Taubes has side stepped the idea that fat+carbs in isolation is the problem, when it was easily the most simple explanation possible for his data.  So I don't expect him to buy into this, he's also never had an answer to the potato/tuber monodiets which SI does a great job of explaining.

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5 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Whoa there Nelly, I didn't say that it is scammy or fake science.  I said that converting calories to points seems scammy and seems like fake science when i heard about it so I wanted to learn more about it. 

I had always been under the impression that points had a nearly one to one ratio with calories where a point was about 50-75 calories.  Your example with ground beef worked out to about that ratio too. 

But it sounds like there's more to it than calories with satiety and fat content and so on.  That's the special sauce I was asking about.  And I totally get that people want to use whatever has been successful for them in the past. It makes a little more sense now.  

yeah it is more to it than one to one

For example - the cream I put in my coffee - 1 serving on WW is 2 points.

In real life its. 35 calories but has sugars...    

I used to be able to calculate WW points based off nutritional values before their new system....

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46 minutes ago, krista4 said:

The fruits are what I find most befuddling, especially bananas and pineapple.  On the vegetable side I’m surprised corn is zero points.

<gross dude joke>
Have you seen that stuff in your poop - it comes out whole, zero points sounds right

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24 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Whoa there Nelly, I didn't say that it is scammy or fake science.  I said that converting calories to points seems scammy and seems like fake science when i heard about it so I wanted to learn more about it. 

I had always been under the impression that points had a nearly one to one ratio with calories where a point was about 50-75 calories.  Your example with ground beef worked out to about that ratio too. 

But it sounds like there's more to it than calories with satiety and fat content and so on.  That's the special sauce I was asking about.  And I totally get that people want to use whatever has been successful for them in the past. It makes a little more sense now.  

Gotcha.  :thumbup:  Apologies for misunderstanding.

As you’ve realized, there’s not a ratio like that, and it’s more complex.  I’ve had a couple of instances where what I wanted to track wasn’t on the app or scanner, but I had the nutritional info.  When entering that in manually, you can more easily see how the variables interplay.
 

 

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27 minutes ago, belljr said:

yeah it is more to it than one to one

For example - the cream I put in my coffee - 1 serving on WW is 2 points.

In real life its. 35 calories but has sugars...    

I used to be able to calculate WW points based off nutritional values before their new system....

A few examples.  I get 50 points or so a day.  I had a quest protein bar for breakfast and it was 5 points.  My coffee with mini-moo’s and Splenda is 1 point.

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26 minutes ago, belljr said:

yeah it is more to it than one to one

For example - the cream I put in my coffee - 1 serving on WW is 2 points.

In real life its. 35 calories but has sugars...    

I used to be able to calculate WW points based off nutritional values before their new system....

For the first couple of months the probiotic gummies I took in the morning accounted for a point!  But they only had 10 calories.  When I ran out, I got tablets to save me that point.  When you only get 23 a day, every point is sacred.  (Cue Monty Python.)

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Weight 01/06/2020- 134.3 

Would like to be between 125lbs to 130lbs by March 1.  Eased back into the gym today with 1 hr of moderate cardio and will increase cardio intensity and add weights into the equation within the next week.  Restricting alcohol to a couple of glasses of wine a week and am back to biggest meal at lunchtime and smallest meal at dinner time (if I’m hungry).  Need accountability, so will post weigh in weekly.

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Just now, Oracle said:

Weight 01/06/2020- 134.3 

Would like to be between 125lbs to 130lbs by March 1.  Eased back into the gym today with 1 hr of moderate cardio and will increase cardio intensity and add weights into the equation within the next week.  Restricting alcohol to a couple of glasses of wine a week and am back to biggest meal at lunchtime and smallest meal at dinner time (if I’m hungry).  Need accountability, so will post weigh in weekly.

height?

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22 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Conspiracy Theory Time

WW needed a new and difficult to decode point system to fight all the free apps out there that cloned their point system so easily.  

:tinfoilhat:

no i totally believe there is some truth to this lol...

WW does provide support groups and meetings and counseling taht some people really need to succeed. I have no issue with that part of it. 

But before if you knew the formula it was super easy to calculate how many points you needed daily and HOW to calculate points for an item based on nutritional value...

I do think they have changed some things because of more studies and science and made their product better but I wouldnt be surprised if your statement isn't partially true

 

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12 minutes ago, krista4 said:

For the first couple of months the probiotic gummies I took in the morning accounted for a point!  But they only had 10 calories.  When I ran out, I got tablets to save me that point.  When you only get 23 a day, every point is sacred.  (Cue Monty Python.)

Lol you have a better chance of getting me to go full bale vegan potato hack intermittent mcnugget fasting rowtis than counting my vitamins as 5 percent of my daily food. I can't even imagine the anger you had chewing those gummies every morning to save you the $12.99 it would have cost you to flush them down the toilet.  

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6 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Lol you have a better chance of getting me to go full bale vegan potato hack intermittent mcnugget fasting rowtis than counting my vitamins as 5 percent of my daily food. I can't even imagine the anger you had chewing those gummies every morning to save you the $12.99 it would have cost you to flush them down the toilet.  

Otis’ new diet!

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21 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Lol you have a better chance of getting me to go full bale vegan potato hack intermittent mcnugget fasting rowtis than counting my vitamins as 5 percent of my daily food. I can't even imagine the anger you had chewing those gummies every morning to save you the $12.99 it would have cost you to flush them down the toilet.  

I thought it was hilarious, not anger-inducing.  It was about a week before I realized I should be counting them, and then it struck me as funny that I’d been so meticulous about every bit of food I ate but these stupid things were costing me a point a day.

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47 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Lol you have a better chance of getting me to go full bale vegan potato hack intermittent mcnugget fasting rowtis than counting my vitamins as 5 percent of my daily food. I can't even imagine the anger you had chewing those gummies every morning to save you the $12.99 it would have cost you to flush them down the toilet.  

you rang?

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Rowtis Stats

Jan 7 Row:  1 hour row - 1257m; Burned 761 calories, Avg HR 128, max 165

January total: 55,101m

Woke up a little tired, a little sore, and thinking I maybe should have a rest day.  Instead just got on and went for a nice relaxed pace row, and ended up going a full hour.  I always feel better the rest of the day when I've exercised in the morning, so just want to keep it going.

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Also as important -- TODAY MARKS A FULL WEEK WITHOUT ALCOHOL.  Last time I did that is a long time ago.  I think I'm starting to sleep better.  I remember my dreams (some good, some not).  I'm feeling less bloated and overall better.  That stuff is poison... eesh...

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

Also as important -- TODAY MARKS A FULL WEEK WITHOUT ALCOHOL.  Last time I did that is a long time ago.  I think I'm starting to sleep better.  I remember my dreams (some good, some not).  I'm feeling less bloated and overall better.  That stuff is poison... eesh...

I swapped to a weekend only booze ages ago.  Huge difference.  

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7 hours ago, Otis said:

Also as important -- TODAY MARKS A FULL WEEK WITHOUT ALCOHOL.  Last time I did that is a long time ago.  I think I'm starting to sleep better.  I remember my dreams (some good, some not).  I'm feeling less bloated and overall better.  That stuff is poison... eesh...

Watching you crank out an hour of exercise like that.....good stuff. 

Same way things can cycle downwards, you can do the reverse.  You exercise more, eat better, drink less, it all makes accomplishing each of those things easier.  You feel better when you eat less and drink less which allows you to exercise more which makes you feel better and then sleep better which makes you want to drink less and eat less, etc. 

Now just remember that nothing in your life has changed schedule wise or work wise and yet you have the time to do these things.  It's all a matter of prioritization.  No reason you can't keep it up as a lifestyle change except for excuses you want to come up with. 

Good luck.

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

Watching you crank out an hour of exercise like that.....good stuff. 

Same way things can cycle downwards, you can do the reverse.  You exercise more, eat better, drink less, it all makes accomplishing each of those things easier.  You feel better when you eat less and drink less which allows you to exercise more which makes you feel better and then sleep better which makes you want to drink less and eat less, etc. 

Now just remember that nothing in your life has changed schedule wise or work wise and yet you have the time to do these things.  It's all a matter of prioritization.  No reason you can't keep it up as a lifestyle change except for excuses you want to come up with. 

Good luck.

As an FYI... I have refocused over the last couple of weeks - got my eating back in line and starting to up the mileage. Time to me to push for 185, IMO... 

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1 minute ago, The Iguana said:

As an FYI... I have refocused over the last couple of weeks - got my eating back in line and starting to up the mileage. Time to me to push for 185, IMO... 

I haven't weighed in a while and was horrified this morning.  Didn't realize it was that bad.  I'm now closer to 200 than 190.  Changes coming my way as well.....

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

I haven't weighed in a while and was horrified this morning.  Didn't realize it was that bad.  I'm now closer to 200 than 190.  Changes coming my way as well.....

I have continued to weigh in regularly but that didn't stop me from stuffing all the cookies in my face. Low mark was about 191/192 a couple weeks pre-Monumental. Was back up to about 203 just before New Year's. But back on it now. 

 

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5 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Watching you crank out an hour of exercise like that.....good stuff. 

Same way things can cycle downwards, you can do the reverse.  You exercise more, eat better, drink less, it all makes accomplishing each of those things easier.  You feel better when you eat less and drink less which allows you to exercise more which makes you feel better and then sleep better which makes you want to drink less and eat less, etc. 

Now just remember that nothing in your life has changed schedule wise or work wise and yet you have the time to do these things.  It's all a matter of prioritization.  No reason you can't keep it up as a lifestyle change except for excuses you want to come up with. 

Good luck.

Thanks.  Not to pre-make excuses, but I’ve taken advantage of not traveling and being at home on a schedule.  Hopefully I can carry that momentum forward through more challenging circumstances (being on the road, being out at business dinners, etc.)

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1 minute ago, Otis said:

Thanks.  Not to pre-make excuses, but I’ve taken advantage of not traveling and being at home on a schedule.  Hopefully I can carry that momentum forward through more challenging circumstances (being on the road, being out at business dinners, etc.)

This is where I think you will experience the benefits of vigorous exercise vs prior attempts. You're not disciplined enough to do this the diet only way. I don't mean that as a criticism. It's just reality. I know for I am the same. Out of structure will be a step back, but by sustaining exercise it will just me one stair instead of tumbling all the way down to the bottom. Then when you get back in structure you'll be a week from being back on schedule instead of staring at square one again. 

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42 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This is where I think you will experience the benefits of vigorous exercise vs prior attempts. You're not disciplined enough to do this the diet only way. I don't mean that as a criticism. It's just reality. I know for I am the same. Out of structure will be a step back, but by sustaining exercise it will just me one stair instead of tumbling all the way down to the bottom. Then when you get back in structure you'll be a week from being back on schedule instead of staring at square one again. 

That makes sense. Thx. 

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

Thanks.  Not to pre-make excuses, but I’ve taken advantage of not traveling and being at home on a schedule.  Hopefully I can carry that momentum forward through more challenging circumstances (being on the road, being out at business dinners, etc.)

Traveling alone for work is the easiest time to exercise

And eating healthy isn't nearly as difficult as you think. 

 The hotel almost certainly offers a bowl of oatmeal with fresh berries or a yogurt. If the company's paying, have an egg white omelette with light cheese and vegetables

And that business dinner with clients can be salmon with vegetables, or scallops, or chicken, or shrimp, or even a lighter cut of steak. It's the bread, sides, appetizers, drinks and desserts that get you in trouble.  

If you've got business lunches, keep your dinners small and just have coffee and a little fruit for breakfast.  

It's not that you can't do it, it's that you haven't gotten used to holding yourself accountable to your diet when you're traveling.  

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Where do we stand on protein shakes after strength training for fat loss? I've always done it with the idea of trying to walk the tightrope of gaining or at least not losing muscle and losing fat at the same time (which I've done somewhat successfully in the past) but read something recently suggesting that if you have a lot of excess fat, you might be best having your body just chew into those stores first (once glycogen is depleted) rather than throwing protein in the mix immediately. That seems to be from a keto perspective and I am definitely not a keto guy but there does seem to be some logic there... on the other hand is there really enough there to really fuel muscle growth?... on the other hand, I do have my share of excess fat.

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Passed on rowing this morning. The knee has a little soreness and I’ve been wanting to do work some non rowing muscles. At the gym doing some chest, tris, and shoulders.

It turns out that when you don’t lift for a while you get really weak. Lawdy. 

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

Passed on rowing this morning. The knee has a little soreness and I’ve been wanting to do work some non rowing muscles. At the gym doing some chest, tris, and shoulders.

It turns out that when you don’t lift for a while you get really weak. Lawdy. 

Balance, homes.

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  • Otis changed the title to Otis fad diet thread — Also rowing, yoga and pillows (and let’s not be fat)

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