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Why would anyone need an assault rifle?


Assault Rifles  

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2 minutes ago, dparker713 said:

Bump stocks and replacement triggers are the legal methods I'm aware of.

As I posted in the Orlando thread, there's a "Real Sports" segment on the popularity of sporting assault rifles.  They showed a $99 mod (legal) that made the semi-auto approximate a fully auto.  However in the same segment, it was pointed out that military manuals suggest soldiers operate their guns in semi mode as it was more accurate, economical and provided a better kill ratio.

So yeah, we can't buy a fully auto AR-15, but we can buy the one that operates as recommended by the military.

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5 minutes ago, comfortably numb said:

The speed limit is 70 in some areas?

I'd actually be fine with cars being made/modified to not go over 80ish as a law.

 

Yeah but you don't need to drive on those roads. you could take the highway and get to where you're going. Anything above 55 is stupid not needed.

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1 minute ago, Dexter said:

Yeah but you don't need to drive on those roads. you could take the highway and get to where you're going. Anything above 55 is stupid not needed.

Brilliant stuff here.

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

Still haven't received one reasonable answer to this, though it was kind of a rhetorical question.

You never will, but after nothing changed post Sandy Hook I don't expect anything to change in any of our lifetimes. Unfortunately, our nation is populated by a lot of very dumb people and enough of them also have a lot of money.

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1 minute ago, Dexter said:

Yeah but you don't need to drive on those roads. you could take the highway and get to where you're going. Anything above 55 is stupid not needed.

Not true. Even if you stick to roads where the limit is 55, personal safety calls for you to be able to accelerate in certain circumstances.

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I guess I'll take a stab at a serious answer, even though I know I'll get vilified by some on this board. I'm sure at least some of you recognize me as one of the board Liberals that occasionally gets combative, but this is a point on which I differ from nearly all Liberals. I think that the true intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a last defense against our own government. Everyone likes to think "that could never happen here" when it comes to despotism or totalitarianism, but history shows us that simply by nature of being a democracy, we are vulnerable. I'm sure some will argue that, even if that was the original intent, technology has made it irrelevant, but I highly disagree. I'm not saying it'd be easy to overthrow a mythical totalitarian government that controlled a good chunk of the US military, but without military style weapons among the populace that chance is basically zero. Frankly I think it functions better as a deterrent than a post-fact solution. 

All of that said, I'm more and more pained as events like these happen again and again, wondering at what point it no longer becomes worth it.

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

You never will, but after nothing changed post Sandy Hook I don't expect anything to change in any of our lifetimes. Unfortunately, our nation is populated by a lot of very dumb people and enough of them also have a lot of money.

The tide is turning on assault rifles... Maybe 10, 20, or 30 years, but one day these things will be banned

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

I guess I'll take a stab at a serious answer, even though I know I'll get vilified by some on this board. I'm sure at least some of you recognize me as one of the board Liberals that occasionally gets combative, but this is a point on which I differ from nearly all Liberals. I think that the true intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a last defense against our own government. Everyone likes to think "that could never happen here" when it comes to despotism or totalitarianism, but history shows us that simply by nature of being a democracy, we are vulnerable. I'm sure some will argue that, even if that was the original intent, technology has made it irrelevant, but I highly disagree. I'm not saying it'd be easy to overthrow a mythical totalitarian government that controlled a good chunk of the US military, but without military style weapons among the populace that chance is basically zero. Frankly I think it functions better as a deterrent than a post-fact solution. 

All of that said, I'm more and more pained as events like these happen again and again, wondering at what point it no longer becomes worth it.

To extend that thought, what if the government fails? If it does, I want to be as heavily armed as possible.

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

I guess I'll take a stab at a serious answer, even though I know I'll get vilified by some on this board. I'm sure at least some of you recognize me as one of the board Liberals that occasionally gets combative, but this is a point on which I differ from nearly all Liberals. I think that the true intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a last defense against our own government. Everyone likes to think "that could never happen here" when it comes to despotism or totalitarianism, but history shows us that simply by nature of being a democracy, we are vulnerable. I'm sure some will argue that, even if that was the original intent, technology has made it irrelevant, but I highly disagree. I'm not saying it'd be easy to overthrow a mythical totalitarian government that controlled a good chunk of the US military, but without military style weapons among the populace that chance is basically zero. Frankly I think it functions better as a deterrent than a post-fact solution. 

All of that said, I'm more and more pained as events like these happen again and again, wondering at what point it no longer becomes worth it.

Its a reasonable reading of the amendment, but then you should be pushing for opening up the sale of RPGs, grenade launchers, tanks, Reaper drones, etc. to US citizens.

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43 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

 

2) They're fun

 

You mock this reason, but its legit. 99% (guess, obviously) of people who buy an assault rifle will take it out to have fun shooting a target and never do anything illegal with it. 

So why should the gov't deny the 99% an enjoyable hobby because of the 1% #### ups? 

(I'm not saying the gov't shouldn't do that, but I don't think its an easy question at all).

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3 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

I have no problem "banning" them, but...

We're never going to stop the military and federal agents from having them.

We're not going to stop letting the police have them.

 

The Orlando shooter was a licensed security guard who worked for a federal Dept. of Homeland Security subcontractor and had taken police training. I don't know if it's been specified if he just took classes or, at some point, was enrolled in police academy.

 

But, preventing someone with those credentials from getting an assault rifle is not reasonable.

And a few of these incidents have come from military personnel, from cops, from federal agents, etc.

 

Better screening is my key, not stopping the guns themselves.

 

Of course its reasonable to block the private ownership of these weapons regardless of a person's training.  The police departments and federal agencies own those weapons, not the officers or agents.

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2 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

I guess I'll take a stab at a serious answer, even though I know I'll get vilified by some on this board. I'm sure at least some of you recognize me as one of the board Liberals that occasionally gets combative, but this is a point on which I differ from nearly all Liberals. I think that the true intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a last defense against our own government. Everyone likes to think "that could never happen here" when it comes to despotism or totalitarianism, but history shows us that simply by nature of being a democracy, we are vulnerable. I'm sure some will argue that, even if that was the original intent, technology has made it irrelevant, but I highly disagree. I'm not saying it'd be easy to overthrow a mythical totalitarian government that controlled a good chunk of the US military, but without military style weapons among the populace that chance is basically zero. Frankly I think it functions better as a deterrent than a post-fact solution.

All of that said, I'm more and more pained as events like these happen again and again, wondering at what point it no longer becomes worth it.

What do you think the odds are that American citizens will need to violently overthrow the government in the near future? How about the odds of a mass shooting? I think we've long since passed the point where it's worth it. 

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Just now, dparker713 said:

Of course its reasonable to block the private ownership of these weapons regardless of a person's training.  The police departments and federal agencies own those weapons, not the officers or agents.

Distinction without a difference. Who cares that the government owns them if nutsos can still get their hands on them?

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Just now, dparker713 said:

Its a reasonable reading of the amendment, but then you should be pushing for opening up the sale of RPGs, grenade launchers, tanks, Reaper drones, etc. to US citizens.

I can see why you'd go that route, but I actually disagree with that. I think those types of weapons are too dangerous for random people to own and literally serve no purpose other than to fight a revolution or something similar. Guns still have sporting or pleasure uses that are reasonable. My rationale is that, if 'revolution' comes, guns are enough. All of those fancy things need supplies to function and are largely dispersed throughout the entire country. A despot would struggle immensely to secure all of those stockpiles and armories across an entire country during a revolution. I'd also expect that at least some of the army wouldn't want to shoot their friends and family. 

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3 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

What do you think the odds are that American citizens will need to violently overthrow the government in the near future? How about the odds of a mass shooting? I think we've long since passed the point where it's worth it. 

And that's where you're probably right. The part of me that loves to stand on principal wants to hold on, but the pragmatist in me screams it isn't close to worth it. It's a belief that I've been struggling over for years now.

To expand on this, I personally think that a lot of our current problems with mass shootings stem from other issues that we're not addressing by just taking away the guns. We need immensely better mental and physical healthcare access. We need to reign in our own government's love of foreign intervention and shadowy dealings that's sparked this modern wave of extremism, but that won't happen until we change how we elect our politicians. I think taking away the guns would stem the numbers quite a bit, but there are other underlying problems that we're largely ignoring.

Edited by mcintyre1
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only ever bring my Kalashnikov when we go to Chuck E Cheese.  let's the older kids know i'm ####### serious about the ball pit rules. some kid gets a little casual and starts throwing the balls a little too hard and i pop off a handful of rounds in to the ceiling to let them know i'm not to be ####ed with.  mom & dad want a piece? they can go home without a leg.

it's my right to defend myself

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1 minute ago, mr. furley said:

only ever bring my Kalashnikov when we go to Chuck E Cheese.  let's the older kids know i'm ####### serious about the ball pit rules. some kid gets a little casual and starts throwing the balls a little too hard and i pop off a handful of rounds in to the ceiling to let them know i'm not to be ####ed with.  mom & dad want a piece? they can go home without a leg.

it's my right to defend myself

Ski Ball is life or death, mang. 

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I wasn't being flippant. Every reason I have given is a valid one for someone who lives in a rural area with no hope of rapid police response.

A semiautomatic for me in my situation is not unreasonable.

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1 minute ago, FishTacoTuesday said:

Ski Ball is life or death, mang. 

you won't believe how many people don't ####### understand that you don't roll the ball with backspin in Ski Ball. not my fault they can't abide by the rules. i've dropped a few dads with a ball to the face and a gun butt.  guess who doesn't ever have to wait for SKi Ball anymore. 

this ####### guy

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2 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

I can see why you'd go that route, but I actually disagree with that. I think those types of weapons are too dangerous for random people to own and literally serve no purpose other than to fight a revolution or something similar. Guns still have sporting or pleasure uses that are reasonable. My rationale is that, if 'revolution' comes, guns are enough. All of those fancy things need supplies to function and are largely dispersed throughout the entire country. A despot would struggle immensely to secure all of those stockpiles and armories across an entire country during a revolution. I'd also expect that at least some of the army wouldn't want to shoot their friends and family. 

This makes zero sense.  I'm pretty sure firing an RPG and exploding a old car would be fun as ####.  And guns are enough?  Is that why the insurgents in Iraq created so many IEDs?

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3 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

only ever bring my Kalashnikov when we go to Chuck E Cheese.  let's the older kids know i'm ####### serious about the ball pit rules. some kid gets a little casual and starts throwing the balls a little too hard and i pop off a handful of rounds in to the ceiling to let them know i'm not to be ####ed with.  mom & dad want a piece? they can go home without a leg.

it's my right to defend myself

:oldunsure:

Police: 5 teens injured in playground shooting

A gunman shot and wounded five teens in an East Flatbush playground Monday, police say.

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1 minute ago, dparker713 said:

This makes zero sense.  I'm pretty sure firing an RPG and exploding a old car would be fun as ####.  And guns are enough?  Is that why the insurgents in Iraq created so many IEDs?

I thought I was fairly clear, but I guess I'll reiterate, the guns are enough to get you the rest if the time comes. 

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8 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

What do you think the odds are that American citizens will need to violently overthrow the government in the near future? How about the odds of a mass shooting? I think we've long since passed the point where it's worth it. 

If you listen to some of the Clinton supporters we might need to violently overthrow the government as early as next January if Trump is elected...

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19 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

I guess I'll take a stab at a serious answer, even though I know I'll get vilified by some on this board. I'm sure at least some of you recognize me as one of the board Liberals that occasionally gets combative, but this is a point on which I differ from nearly all Liberals. I think that the true intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a last defense against our own government. Everyone likes to think "that could never happen here" when it comes to despotism or totalitarianism, but history shows us that simply by nature of being a democracy, we are vulnerable. I'm sure some will argue that, even if that was the original intent, technology has made it irrelevant, but I highly disagree. I'm not saying it'd be easy to overthrow a mythical totalitarian government that controlled a good chunk of the US military, but without military style weapons among the populace that chance is basically zero. Frankly I think it functions better as a deterrent than a post-fact solution. 

All of that said, I'm more and more pained as events like these happen again and again, wondering at what point it no longer becomes worth it.

I don't disagree with the thinking around this but it goes to the militia language and the constitution prior to incorporation of 14th amendment that said constitiution applies to states. Think real intent was that the federal government could not ban guns in a manner that would infringe the states rights to have local militias to fight against the evil central government. Limiting the sale of assault rifles like the ar15 to individuals doesn't impact the right of states to have militias. 

If you think of the experience of the founders where state and local militias existed to fight the UK that is comparable to need of militias to fight the federal government. Not for individuals to stockpile their own personal arsenals not tied to state militias. 

Edited by Redwes25
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