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Why would anyone need an assault rifle? (5 Viewers)

Assault Rifles

  • Ban them

    Votes: 309 74.6%

  • They have many uses outside of killing a lot of people in a short amount of time

    Votes: 105 25.4%
  • Total voters
    414
Amused to Death said:
Well you know why we don't have any well-designed studies?  Because the NRA pressured Congress to remove gun violence research funding from the CDC back in '96.
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Fortunately, the CDC is not the only source of grant funding, and there have been exceptional studies--all showing the same relationship--over the past 30 years.

 
Christo said:
As someone pointed out earlier, the insurgents in Iraq got pretty good at it. Without access to easier mechanisms, the committed will still find a way. So I disagree that the "they would just build a bomb" argument is ridiculous.
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So you think Dylan Roof and this latest guy are going to conspire together to get their hands on military artillery and figure out how to use it?

There's a pretty big difference between some random angry guy in his basement in the USA and a semi-organized insurgency with a network of scientists and people training each other on this stuff in a country where artillery shells are just lying on the side of the road for anyone to grab and use.

 
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cobalt_27 said:
That's why studies go before peer review, meaning experts in the field flesh out designs and methods that could expose a bias, intended or unintended.  
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These are the geniuses who came up with banning guns with pistol grips & flash hiders. If they  REALLY knew anything, they'd focus on cyclic rate and not magazine capacity or whether or not a gun looks scary.

 
You guys crack me up.  Nothing is going to happen to anyone's guns, people.  A guy walked into a school and  killed twenty children and nothing changed about who can own a gun.  Why would someone shooting up a gay bar spur any action?  We'll just change our Facebook status to a rainbow flag sad face until the next big shooting.

 
Lester Burnham said:
These are the geniuses who came up with banning guns with pistol grips & flash hiders. If they  REALLY knew anything, they'd focus on cyclic rate and not magazine capacity or whether or not a gun looks scary.
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Who are the geniuses behind this?  Which research groups?

 
Ignoramus said:
You guys crack me up.  Nothing is going to happen to anyone's guns, people.  A guy walked into a school and  killed twenty children and nothing changed about who can own a gun.  Why would someone shooting up a gay bar spur any action?  We'll just change our Facebook status to a rainbow flag sad face until the next big shooting.
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Sad but true.

 
Ignoramus said:
You guys crack me up.  Nothing is going to happen to anyone's guns, people.  A guy walked into a school and  killed twenty children and nothing changed about who can own a gun.  Why would someone shooting up a gay bar spur any action?  We'll just change our Facebook status to a rainbow flag sad face until the next big shooting.
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I agree with this 100% for now, but I just don't understand why. Why won't anyone tell the NRA to #### off, #### them!

 
FreeBaGeL said:
So you think Dylan Roof and this latest guy are going to conspire together to get their hands on military artillery and figure out how to use it?

There's a pretty big difference between some random zealot in his basement in the USA and a semi-organized insurgency with a network of scientists and people training each other on this stuff in a country where artillery shells are just lying on the side of the road for anyone to grab and use.
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Anyone can get a Lowe's card

 
Ignoramus said:
You guys crack me up.  Nothing is going to happen to anyone's guns, people.  A guy walked into a school and  killed twenty children and nothing changed about who can own a gun.  Why would someone shooting up a gay bar spur any action?  We'll just change our Facebook status to a rainbow flag sad face until the next big shooting.
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Exactly.  

 
cobalt_27 said:
I see you're not familiar with the overwhelming data/research on gun prevalence and homicide rates.
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I completely believe that if we could somehow not have guns, our society would be much safer. 

But how to get there from here? I don't know. I'm not convinced that a ban on any particular gun would have a significant effect. That's the gist of my problem with the idea. 

 
Let's say we implement a gun ban tomorrow. How long will it take before 3d printed guns are common enough so that we've solved absolutely nothing?

 
Riversco said:
Let's say we implement a gun ban tomorrow. How long will it take before 3d printed guns are common enough so that we've solved absolutely nothing?
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A gun ban does nothing to remove existing weapons. The govt cant go door to door confiscating guns. A gun ban is a band aid. Solving the problem of changing attitudes and breaking down generations of prejudice is a tall order. Nobody has the patience for that. Elected officials have to do SOMETHING. Lets pass laws!

 
Is this worth sifting thru or am I going to lose my dinner?

I think anyone the FBI looks into who is an active Muslim going to a mosque where hateful rhetoric seems to have taken the place of peace and love which is the main message at most mosques and houses of worship in the United States, yeah those folks need to be on a special list and not issued weapons. If it means that 1:10 on the list or even slightly higher are miscast then so be it if it saves lives. And if the Muslim community doesn't approve, then produce the nutjobs you know are perverting the religion and turn them over to the FBI, that would go a long way if the Muslim community actually uncovered and worked with the FBI to intervene and stop this nonsense, maybe it already is. 

But overall we do not need to restrict a lot of law abiding citizens from purchasing guns. This man was a criminal when you factor in domestic violence that went unpunished by his 1st wife except she divorced him but he likely should have been arrested for domestic violence which likely would have given him a criminal background and stopped his legal purchase of the guns. 

 
Christo said:
Anyone can get a Lowe's card
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And what percentage of them would actually be able to do anything with it?  Given that the Columbine kids were smarter than all the rest of them over the last 15 years and they couldn't get it to work, and given that there have been several other attempts to detonate IEDs here since the Oklahoma City bombing that have mostly failed, with the biggest success being a 3-person kill.

If there were no guns (not what I'm arguing for) there wouldn't be 0 of these attacks, but there would be a LOT less of them.  Timothy McVeigh had extensive military training, a high IQ score, and plenty of disposable income and still needed a lot of things to go his way for everything to work..  How many of the recent gun attackers meet that criteria?

 
Lester Burnham said:
A gun ban does nothing to remove existing weapons. The govt cant go door to door confiscating guns. A gun ban is a band aid. Solving the problem of changing attitudes and breaking down generations of prejudice is a tall order. Nobody has the patience for that. Elected officials have to do SOMETHING. Lets pass laws!
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After a man killed 35 people with a semi-automatic weapon, Australia did a mandatory buy back and provided amnesty on illegal guns of the weapons they banned and created a registry. They did not ban all guns but they bought back 650, 000, equal to roughly 20% of their countries' private ownership, or one good arsenal in some farm in the States somewhere. Homicide dropped 50% and Suicide 74%.

It's not a band aid, there are lots of examples of countries that have instituted registries/banned certain guns and seen positive results.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
If you could legally buy massive remote trigger bombs down at the corner store, how many more bomb attacks would there be here?

Bombs are illegal.  There are still bomb attacks.  But there are a lot less of them than if any Joe Schmoe could walk into a store and buy them.
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There are some here that would argue the 2nd amendment should apply to bombs, nukes.  This is the level of crazy we're dealing with in this thread.  Absolutley bat #### crazy people.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
And what percentage of them would actually be able to do anything with it?  Given that the Columbine kids were smarter than all the rest of them over the last 15 years and they couldn't get it to work, and given that there have been several other attempts to detonate IEDs here since the Oklahoma City bombing that have mostly failed, with the biggest success being a 3-person kill.

If there were no guns (not what I'm arguing for) there wouldn't be 0 of these attacks, but there would be a LOT less of them.  Timothy McVeigh had extensive military training, a high IQ score, and plenty of disposable income and still needed a lot of things to go his way for everything to work..  How many of the recent gun attackers meet that criteria?
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The fertilizer bomb "excuse" always humors me. Go buy 5000lbs of fertilizer, research on how to make a bomb from it, and see if you get a visit.

 
The problem is guns are legal. Pretty sure that we couldn't pass an amendment to legalize water under the current political climate.

So lets focus our energy on something that might help until such time as the climate favors change.

 
Lester Burnham said:
The problem is guns are legal. Pretty sure that we couldn't pass an amendment to legalize water under the current political climate.

So lets focus our energy on something that might help until such time as the climate favors change.
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So we shouldn't discuss or debate the issue until the left and right can hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

 
FreeBaGeL said:
And what percentage of them would actually be able to do anything with it?  Given that the Columbine kids were smarter than all the rest of them over the last 15 years and they couldn't get it to work, and given that there have been several other attempts to detonate IEDs here since the Oklahoma City bombing that have mostly failed, with the biggest success being a 3-person kill.

If there were no guns (not what I'm arguing for) there wouldn't be 0 of these attacks, but there would be a LOT less of them.  Timothy McVeigh had extensive military training, a high IQ score, and plenty of disposable income and still needed a lot of things to go his way for everything to work..  How many of the recent gun attackers meet that criteria?
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How many do there need to be? According to this, the 10 deadliest mass shootings since 1984 have totaled 218 deaths. Until Orlando, the highest total was the Virginia Tech incident with 32. None of the weapons used there were assault rifles. McVeigh took out 168 at one time. There don't need to be as many bombs to kill as many people.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
If you could legally buy massive remote trigger bombs down at the corner store, how many more bomb attacks would there be here?

Bombs are illegal.  There are still bomb attacks.  But there are a lot less of them than if any Joe Schmoe could walk into a store and buy them.
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I'm sure someone will have the A-Ha post back at you but on the surface this is pretty good. 

I just would like to start with those the FBI has needed to speak with because of concerned citizens, let's ban those folks first and then discuss what needs to be done with the millions of mentally unstable folks...like those under prescription meds for mental wellness, maybe we need to put a stop to those folks owning guns as painful as that might be for some of those folks. 

I don't want to remove the AR-15 from Icon for example. I'm fine with him being the guy on the block with assault weapons as long as he is on board with the same oath a tall person flying on the emergency exit takes to get a little more leg room. You better come running when we sound the alarm for help.

 
Northern Voice said:
After a man killed 35 people with a semi-automatic weapon, Australia did a mandatory buy back and provided amnesty on illegal guns of the weapons they banned and created a registry. They did not ban all guns but they bought back 650, 000, equal to roughly 20% of their countries' private ownership, or one good arsenal in some farm in the States somewhere. Homicide dropped 50% and Suicide 74%.

It's not a band aid, there are lots of examples of countries that have instituted registries/banned certain guns and seen positive results.
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Really? See this is the sort of stuff that could change my mind again.

So many people seem to have their mind made up on this issue, one way or the other and there's no changing them no matter what the argument. But on this one I go back and forth. There are compelling arguments on both sides...

 
Christo said:
How many do there need to be? According to this, the 10 deadliest mass shootings since 1984 have totaled 218 deaths. Until Orlando, the highest total was the Virginia Tech incident with 32. None of the weapons used there were assault rifles. McVeigh took out 168 at one time. There don't need to be as many bombs to kill as many people.
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How many fertilizer bombs have there been since McVeigh? How many mass shootings have there been since that time?

 
timschochet said:
Really? See this is the sort of stuff that could change my mind again.

So many people seem to have their mind made up on this issue, one way or the other and there's no changing them no matter what the argument. But on this one I go back and forth. There are compelling arguments on both sides...
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Yes, assault rifles being "fun" is a highly compelling argument. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
If you could legally buy massive remote trigger bombs down at the corner store, how many more bomb attacks would there be here?

Bombs are illegal.  There are still bomb attacks.  But there are a lot less of them than if any Joe Schmoe could walk into a store and buy them.
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Yeah people aren't spending time to build a bomb from scratch, not with the ABC primetime line-up and Pizza rolls calling. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Yes, assault rifles being "fun" is a highly compelling argument. 
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That's not what I wrote and you know it. 

I tend to be libertarian unless you can demonstrate why a law would make sense. What was compelling to me about the "fun" argument is that people shouldn't need a reason to own stuff- as a general rule they should be able to own what they want without having to explain themselves. If you want to make assault weapons illegal, the burden is on YOU to show why it would be wise to do so, not on the gun owner to explain why he "needs" to own one. That was the flaw with your opening question IMO. 

 
timschochet said:
That's not what I wrote and you know it. 

I tend to be libertarian unless you can demonstrate why a law would make sense. What was compelling to me about the "fun" argument is that people shouldn't need a reason to own stuff- as a general rule they should be able to own what they want without having to explain themselves. If you want to make assault weapons illegal, the burden is on YOU to show why it would be wise to do so, not on the gun owner to explain why he "needs" to own one. That was the flaw with your opening question IMO. 
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Here you go. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/anderson-cooper-reads-orlando-shooting-victims-names/index.html

 
urbanhack said:
You want to be a doomsday prepper and you want an assault rifle.

got it.
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Yeah. The Muslim in Orlando did 2 things. 1. He went into a gun free zone. 2 he chose a demographic that thinks guns are scary. Has anyone of those people had a carry license and gun or had the workers in SB been armed these massacres would not have been as bad. 

 
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