Dynasty & Redraft: WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, Steelers

[BigTex 859]

6 hours ago, EBF said:

Torrey Smith comparison is terrible.

 

I would go with Demaryius Thomas for a comp player. Both are big with rare agility and movement for their size.

 

I see most mocks have him out of the first right now. To me he's definitely a first round talent, so it will be interesting to see where he goes.

I saw a recent mock that had the Cowboys drafting him, opposite Dez would be great!

Tex

[lod001 5,406]

23 hours ago, WideoutWizard said:

The Numbers

 

I see more Torrey Smith in his game than Dez Bryant. 

OUCH.

[JohnnyU 4,065]

Treadwell

[fruity pebbles 3,270]

His 40 at the combine is gonna be crucial imo. 4.5s and he'll be fine. Don't think hes Treadwell slow. Tread ran a 4.63 at his pro day. At the combine thats probably in the 4.7s.

[JohnnyU 4,065]

6 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

His 40 at the combine is gonna be crucial imo. 4.5s and he'll be fine. Don't think hes Treadwell slow. Tread ran a 4.63 at his pro day. At the combine thats probably in the 4.7s.

I see more of Treadwell than just speed, or lack there of.  Also, I read there are maturity issues with him as well.

Edited January 14, 2017 by JohnnyU

[Da Guru 6,438]

Tidbit:  Ju Jus mother named him after her favorite candy.  Ju Ju fruits....

[ConnSKINS26 5,717]

25 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Treadwell

Same for me. Right down to being a very young, hyped devy "name" guy that people project their dream skill-set onto.

Not saying he's going to be as disappointing as Treadwell (and yes Treadwell can turn it around), but I see a lot of similarities in their values over the last year or two and it's heavily influenced by the devy communities "general consensus".

[EBF 1,924]

Doesn't really move or run like Treadwell.

 

44 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 Not saying he's going to be as disappointing as Treadwell (and yes Treadwell can turn it around), but I see a lot of similarities in their values over the last year or two and it's heavily influenced by the devy communities "general consensus".

 

I think there's a parallel with Alshon Jeffery as well. Promising first year in college. Monster second year. Stats drop in the third year and people overthink his game. Jeffery went from being a 1.1-1.2 dev pick entering his final college season to becoming something of an afterthought in the draft process.

 

I don't think JuJu will bomb the combine like that though. I think he will be a first round pick when all is said and done.

 

[Faust 5,270]

Quote

Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline spoke to two separate sources who view USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster as a second- or third-round selection.

 

"They feel there is nothing special about his game; he’s not a downfield threat, he runs average routes and some contend he does not catch the ball well," Pauline writes. This jives very closely with CBS Sports' Dane Brugler's opinion -- Brugler wrote in mid-January that he would be caught off guard if Smith-Schuster was drafted in the first round. His work at the NFL Scouting Combine later this month is looking increasingly crucial if the former Trojans star is to remain in the first-round conversation.

 

Source: Draft Analyst

 

[Nero 165]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:00 AM, JohnnyU said:

I see more of Treadwell than just speed, or lack there of.  Also, I read there are maturity issues with him as well.

Treadwell looked better in almost every aspect imo. 

[BigTex 859]

40 minutes ago, Nero said:

Treadwell looked better in almost every aspect imo. 

Better than who?

Tex

[Nero 165]

19 minutes ago, BigTex said:

Better than who?

Tex

Better than Juju.

[JohnnyU 4,065]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

Treadwell looked better in almost every aspect imo. 

I don't think we can say anything positive about Treadwell yet, but that doesn't mean we won't going forward.

[Nero 165]

43 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I don't think we can say anything positive about Treadwell yet, but that doesn't mean we won't going forward.

I'm not talking about Treadwell's rookie season.  As a college prospect, I was a lot more excited about Treadwell than I am about Juju.

[EBF 1,924]

They are so different that it's not really worth comparing them.

JuJu had 11 catches of 25+ yards last year, which is about average for his reception total. He also did pretty well there in 2015 with 16. That was tied with what Corey Davis did that season and you don't hear people saying he's "not a downfield threat".

I'd be a little more confident in this comparison if the mocks matched my own opinion, but overall I'm sticking with Demaryius Thomas as the best NFL comparison. All of the criticisms from that article apply to DT. He doesn't have elite speed (though his college YPR was insane), he wasn't considered a great route runner, and he doesn't have phenomenal hands. Being big and athletic matters though. JuJu athletically looks the part of an NFL #1. He's got the right kind of frame at ~ 6'1.5" 220, and he moves well for a player that size. I missed on a guy like this a few years ago (Chris Harper) who was almost too big for his own good, but JuJu's resume is quite a bit stronger.

At this point I hope people keep doubting him so I can get him in all my rookie drafts! I don't think I've ever said this before, but for once the NFL has managed to actually underrate a USC WR.

[Rookie_Whisperer 164]

6 hours ago, EBF said:

They are so different that it's not really worth comparing them.

JuJu had 11 catches of 25+ yards last year, which is about average for his reception total. He also did pretty well there in 2015 with 16. That was tied with what Corey Davis did that season and you don't hear people saying he's "not a downfield threat".

I'd be a little more confident in this comparison if the mocks matched my own opinion, but overall I'm sticking with Demaryius Thomas as the best NFL comparison. All of the criticisms from that article apply to DT. He doesn't have elite speed (though his college YPR was insane), he wasn't considered a great route runner, and he doesn't have phenomenal hands. Being big and athletic matters though. JuJu athletically looks the part of an NFL #1. He's got the right kind of frame at ~ 6'1.5" 220, and he moves well for a player that size. I missed on a guy like this a few years ago (Chris Harper) who was almost too big for his own good, but JuJu's resume is quite a bit stronger.

At this point I hope people keep doubting him so I can get him in all my rookie drafts! I don't think I've ever said this before, but for once the NFL has managed to actually underrate a USC WR.

Not to be too contrarian but Demaryius Thomas had sub 4.4 speed to go along with that big body. His biggest issue coming out was that he played in that run first offense at GA Tech so everything about his game was raw, footwork, routes, body control, plus had that foot issue. He was an elite athlete who needed to develop his football skills; JuJu isn't the athlete that Thomas is/was. He may present a similar imposing size but he isn't beating anyone in a foot race or with his elite short area quickness.

[EBF 1,924]

DT didn't run at the combine. I don't personally think he's a 4.3 guy. I think he's about a 4.50. That's a pretty common speed for the bigger body types (i.e. Fitzgerald, Dez, VJax).

 

I think JuJu has good speed and very good quickness for his size.

[BigTex 859]

14 hours ago, EBF said:

They are so different that it's not really worth comparing them.

JuJu had 11 catches of 25+ yards last year, which is about average for his reception total. He also did pretty well there in 2015 with 16. That was tied with what Corey Davis did that season and you don't hear people saying he's "not a downfield threat".

I'd be a little more confident in this comparison if the mocks matched my own opinion, but overall I'm sticking with Demaryius Thomas as the best NFL comparison. All of the criticisms from that article apply to DT. He doesn't have elite speed (though his college YPR was insane), he wasn't considered a great route runner, and he doesn't have phenomenal hands. Being big and athletic matters though. JuJu athletically looks the part of an NFL #1. He's got the right kind of frame at ~ 6'1.5" 220, and he moves well for a player that size. I missed on a guy like this a few years ago (Chris Harper) who was almost too big for his own good, but JuJu's resume is quite a bit stronger.

At this point I hope people keep doubting him so I can get him in all my rookie drafts! I don't think I've ever said this before, but for once the NFL has managed to actually underrate a USC WR.

This! 

Tex

[BigTex 859]

7 hours ago, Rookie_Whisperer said:

Not to be too contrarian but Demaryius Thomas had sub 4.4 speed to go along with that big body. His biggest issue coming out was that he played in that run first offense at GA Tech so everything about his game was raw, footwork, routes, body control, plus had that foot issue. He was an elite athlete who needed to develop his football skills; JuJu isn't the athlete that Thomas is/was. He may present a similar imposing size but he isn't beating anyone in a foot race or with his elite short area quickness.

You do know that JuJu was playing through a foot and back injury this year right?

I believe we'll have a better idea about his pedigree soon enough and I'm banking on the JuJu we saw at the end of the year when he finally got healthy and the one we saw in 2015.

Tex

[Rookie_Whisperer 164]

2 hours ago, BigTex said:

You do know that JuJu was playing through a foot and back injury this year right?

I believe we'll have a better idea about his pedigree soon enough and I'm banking on the JuJu we saw at the end of the year when he finally got healthy and the one we saw in 2015.

Tex

No, but thanks for the info though.  I guess he played tough this season if that's the case, but I've watched 3 games from this season (Wash, AZ, Penn St.) and 3 from 2015 (Wash, Wisc, Cal), so I think I've seen what there is to see unless I want to watch the other 3 games from 2015 available. He might have gotten injured in that '15 Cal game as well because footage of him is scarce in that one.  I may watch the rest after he's drafted. I try very hard not to watch highlight videos which only show the good plays a player makes while omitting poor plays and plays a guy isn't featured in.  

BTW, numerous reports were that Demaryius was running between 4.36 and 4.38 at 238 lbs prior to his foot injury.  Could totally be smoke and mirrors and obviously those were not verified at the combine or a pro-day due to the injury. But, he was built like a TE at GA Tech and still easily able to run away from guys. Big difference in body types IMO.

Edit: Just looked at some notes from 2010 that he was running 4.38s @ 227 lbs, not 238 but Thomas said later in 2013 that he was running 4.36 at 238. Just wanted to clarify.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Rookie_Whisperer

[EBF 1,924]

Self-reported times are meaningless. DT has never looked like a 4.3 guy in the NFL, and I've always been a huge DT fan. He is fast, but 4.3 is a different level of speed. That's bordering on elite/professional track type of speed. DT isn't that fast IMO. I'd say 4.48-4.55 if I had to guess.

Also disagree on their body types. Both have the big, tapered look. Swap their jerseys and they look like the same guy in these pictures:

DT at Georgia Tech: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/wide-receiver-demaryius-thomas-of-the-georgia-tech-yellow-jackets-picture-id91241561

JuJu: http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocregister/odkunu-b88798574z.120160915201922000glqit6hq.10.jpg

 

DT: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/4b/ea/8a4bea630b9109fd29580d6dac5f2cfc.jpg

JuJu: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/F5AWFE/berkeley-usa-ca-31st-oct-2015-usc-9-wr-juju-smith-schuster-look-over-F5AWFE.jpg

 

If anything, JuJu is bigger than DT in terms of thickness/mass. Your numbers on DT's dimensions are off. He was 6'3 1/4" 224 at the combine (27.8 BMI). We don't know JuJu's actual height/weight yet, but DraftScout has him at 6'1 1/2" 220 (28.6 BMI). That seems about right to me. He's built a lot like DT, but a touch shorter and stronger. I see him as a slightly more Boldin-y version of DT, or alternatively as a very rich man's Quincy Enunwa.

[Zyphros 1,986]

The biggest difference I see between Treadwell and JuJu are that JuJu seems to run more patterns than Treadwell did.  Other than that my notes of both seem very similar.  "Strong build, decent first step off the line, not great at blocking, doesn't fully sell routes, not very sudden but has some wiggly/quickness"  to sum it up.  Oddly enough I wasn't a Treadwell fan and I kind of like JuJu.  Not sure what it is but he pops more than Treadwell did as I watched them.  He's my WR2 by default for this draft.

[ConnSKINS26 5,717]

I do think Treadwell had better hands and ability in contested catch situations

[Faust 5,270]

Quote

A former USC assistant coach explained to NFL.com's Lance Zierlein that WR JuJu Smith-Schuster "absolutely loves football."

 

"He came in as a safety and probably could have gone pro as a safety," the assistant added. Smith-Schuster's 2015 season is one of the most productive from a receiver in this class, with 89 catches for 1,454 yards and 10 touchdowns. The following year was a disappointment. One difference is JuJu averaged 1.2 yards more after the catch as a sophomore.

 

Source: NFL.com

 

[Faust 5,270]

Quote

Rotoworld's Josh Norris ranks USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster as the class' No. 10 overall receiver.

 

Our draft guru is lower on the youngest receiver in the class than most. "Crossing routes and downfield routes over the middle," Norris wrote. "Can be good after the catch when hit in stride. Nice speed/size combination." Norris suggested that Smith-Schuster could be "Corey Davis after taxes."

 

 

Source: Rotoworld 

Feb 23 - 11:13 AM

 

[EBF 1,924]

Measured at 6' 1 3/8" 215 pounds (28.1 BMI) if the Internet is to be believed.

Pretty good marks. I never really thought he was 6'2"-6'3".

That BMI is right on par with the prototypical big body #1 WR like Fitzgerald, V Jackson, Dez, and Demaryius. Identical heigh/weight to Crabtree. I think Crab in college was a little more explosive out of his routes and plants, but JuJu probably beats him in a sprint.

Looking for a 40 time in the 4.5 range. Low 4.5 would be a good time for him. Anything above 4.60 would start to be a little troubling.

 

[BigTex 859]

39 minutes ago, EBF said:

Measured at 6' 1 3/8" 215 pounds (28.1 BMI) if the Internet is to be believed.

Pretty good marks. I never really thought he was 6'2"-6'3".

That BMI is right on par with the prototypical big body #1 WR like Fitzgerald, V Jackson, Dez, and Demaryius. Identical heigh/weight to Crabtree. I think Crab in college was a little more explosive out of his routes and plants, but JuJu probably beats him in a sprint.

Looking for a 40 time in the 4.5 range. Low 4.5 would be a good time for him. Anything above 4.60 would start to be a little troubling.

 

So Draftscout.com was correct about his measurements! Noted!

Tex

[SayWhat? 4,118]

I'm just not seeing anything special in Juju's game.  Can't wait to see what his clocked time is tomorrow, as based on the film he feels like a 4.6 guy.

[Faust 5,270]

Quote

USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster clocked an unofficial 40-yard dash time of 4.54 seconds at the NFL Scouting Combine on Saturday.

Smith-Schuster is not an out-and-out burner, but 4.54 seconds is more than respectable for the future NFL wideout. Two teams to watch who are intrigued by the 6-foot-2, 220-pounder: The Rams and the Eagles. He met formally with Los Angeles at the Combine and also worked out with last year's No. 1 pick, Jared Goff. And in that same vain, he worked out with last year's No. 2 pick, Carson Wentz.

 

 

Source: NFL.com 

Mar 4 - 1:23 PM

 

[EBF 1,924]

If the time holds, that's about in line with expectations. Mid 4.5 is decent speed for a player this size. That's the same general range that Hopkins, V Jackson, and Dez were in. JuJu didn't shine in the explosiveness drills like Jackson or Bryant. NFL.com shows a 32.5" vertical and 10' broad jump. Those aren't horrible, but they aren't great marks either. You'd like to see a little more evidence of fast twitch explosiveness. Still, on the balance, it's a pretty decent combine for him.

The mocks and pundits all make me think first round is unlikely for him at this point. I think these numbers can keep him in the 2nd round though. Some team is going to get a pretty good player there.

[Faust 5,270]

A strong performance at USC's pro day is the capper for JuJu Smith-Schuster

[buck naked 420]

43 minutes ago, Faust said:

A strong performance at USC's pro day is the capper for JuJu Smith-Schuster

I'd like to read it but it requires a subscription. DOH

[Zyphros 1,986]

1 hour ago, buck naked said:

I'd like to read it but it requires a subscription. DOH

I read it no problem.  Basically said JuJu wears a hat during workout, scout says "who cares what he wears, I want to know if he can play".  And that his 3 cone was sub 7 seconds without an actual time.  Not a lot of mention on him here either.  

[Hankmoody 3,775]

9 hours ago, buck naked said:

I'd like to read it but it requires a subscription. DOH

I don't have a subscription and read it fine.  They spent the first 3 1/2 paragraphs talking about his backward hat, if that helps.  Total fluff piece, the kind you'd find in any local paper about any local kid they want to pump.  Probably just trying to get better access to USC by doing their guys a solid.  No actual facts about any workout or drill results.

[Rookie_Whisperer 164]

"-  I saw two separate Cowboys scout/members (one was wide receivers coach Derek Dooley) talking to OC and wide receivers coach Tee Martin."

http://usc.247sports.com/Article/Four-star-defensive-end-Cameron-Latu-drops-a-top-10-school-list--51921914

[Zyphros 1,986]

They have his pro day highlights up on NFL

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000794602/JuJu-Smith-Schuster-s-Pro-Day-highlights

[Borden 1,078]

39 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

They have his pro day highlights up on NFL

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000794602/JuJu-Smith-Schuster-s-Pro-Day-highlights

What I learnt from this video. A) JuJu has cool dance moves. B) ALL these guys are super humans. I forget that because they are mostly only seen with other super humans. 

Thanks for the share. I'm not smart enough to completely break down his movements but I still enjoyed it. 

[Faust 5,270]

PFF SCOUTING REPORT: JUJU SMITH-SCHUSTER, WR, USC

[Faust 5,270]

USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster will visit the Cowboys.

Of the 18 names of prospects visiting the Cowboys tweeted out by Albert Breer, Smith-Schuster was the only offensive player. Think that indicates which side of the ball the team will be drafting early? Smith-Schuster produced an outstanding 2015 season, but failed to build on it during his final year of collegiate football. He is a third or fourth round pick.

 

 

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter 

Apr 4 - 9:54 AM

[steelers1080 1,070]

I'm pretty low on Juju compared to where he was hyped before the season.  That said, he had a crap QB at the beginning of the year, then he got injured against Oregon and battled that the rest of the season until he had a month and a half of rest.

During his 4 games with Darnold and his final game he got 600 yards and 7 TDs, or 120 yards and 1.4 TDs per game.  That's pretty elite.  Then against Arizona he suffered back spasms and I read that he re-injured his back against Oregon.  

A lot of people are just looking at end of the year stats, or watching his injured games.  Has anyone analyzed his games against Utah, AZ St. AZ, Colorado and Penn St from this year?  I'd like to hear how he looked when healthy.

[Faust 5,270]

Sources Tell Us: Exec says Jamal Adams not a game changer

Excerpt:

The scoop: "I would be interested to see where other teams have JuJu (Smith-Schuster) because I absolutely love him. He reminds me so much of Anquan Boldin the way he creates space for himself and how physical he is after the catch. He will end up being as good or better than those receivers they are mentioning in the first round." -- AFC WR coach

The skinny: The receivers most prominently mentioned in the first round are Clemson's Mike Williams, Western Michigan's Corey Davis and Washington's John Ross. For the record, my NFL comparison for Smith-Schuster is Boldin, and that is because I see the exact same thing on tape that this coach sees. He's not the fastest receiver, which is why he's unlikely to go in the first round, but he can make contested catches and has tremendous ball skills down the field. While I like Smith-Schuster quite a bit, I have him as the 41st-rated prospect and No. 4 receiver in the draft.

[Faust 5,270]

2017 PFW Scouting Previews: USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster

[Faust 5,270]

JuJu Smith-Schuster showing off his skills and his personality ahead of NFL draft

[Faust 5,270]

USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster believes the Cowboys and Rams have shown the most interest in him during the draft process.

JuJu was one of two offensive prospects to visit the Cowboys out of their 30 allotted visits. Smith-Schuster seems to be well liked by the NFL in comparison to media evaluators. He is one of the youngest prospects in this class and posted a ton of production in 2015. However, his game fizzled after that.

 

 

Source: Pro Football Talk 

Apr 24 - 8:14 AM

[Faust 5,270]

NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah believes USC WR Juju Smith-Schuster could sneak into Round 1.

A favorite of Rotoworld's Thor Nystrom, Smith-Schuster hasn't been as well received by the draft media as a whole as he reportedly has been by the NFL. Smith-Schuster said recently that the Cowboys and Rams have shown the most interest in him. Dallas conveniently picks at the end of Round 1, while the Rams could easily enough trade into Day 1 if they felt motivated to do so.

 

 

Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter 

Apr 27 - 2:08 PM

[maf005 97]

^^ 

Juju in the 1st would shake up a lot of rookie rankings bigly

[Faust 5,270]

Steelers selected USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster with the No. 62 overall pick in the 2017 NFL draft.

Sammie Coates' roster spot could be in trouble. Smith-Schuster (6’1/215) was the go-to guy for Sam Darnold and Cody Kessler at USC, logging a career 213-3,092-25 (14.5 YPR) receiving line in only three years before turning pro. Absurdly young coming out, Smith-Schuster won’t turn 21 until late November and is over three years younger than fellow 2016 prospect Cooper Kupp. On college tape, Smith-Schuster doesn’t wow as a dynamic separator or post-catch dominator, but he plays with a smooth, collected savvy and demonstrates a knack for making difficult plays in traffic. He ran a respectable 4.54 forty with a 10-foot broad jump in Indy. Not yet at his athletic peak, Smith-Schuster likely offers a higher long-term upside than initially meets the eye.

[dipandglide 372]

short term is pretty cloudy. I like this long term since he's going to a place where he can grow, develop, and learn from one of the best

[EBF 1,924]

Steal!

[Faust 5,270]

Pittsburgh Steelers select WR Juju Smith-Schuster