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11 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Full credit to him for riding the bike there.

I said that I feared at Atleti was showing significant weakness over the last few weeks.  They will be up against it now to remain in CL.

Mount and Jorginho both miss the next game due to getting yellow cards today. I'm expecting another intense defensive affair.

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English teams in CL

22 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Mount and Jorginho both miss the next game due to getting yellow cards today. I'm expecting another intense defensive affair.

Maybe CP will be the third player off the bench this time.

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28 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

The Atleti player (Hermosa) played the ball that found him. A miss-hit. 

Similar to the craptastic deflection that eliminated Atleti last CL season, hit by Adams.

Atlético are gonna have to find some goals, and that'll be tough at the Bridge with how Chelsea have been playing under Tuchel.

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I love that United is playing a 4-2-4 this half vs Real Sociedad.

  Williams Bailley Lindelof Telles
           Tuanzabee Matic
Diallo Greenwood Martial Rashford

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Corner kick United
Lindelof jumps, ball goes over him
Defender turns and takes Lindelof's knee in the face (didn't jump)
Tuanzabee with a strong header puts it in the back of the net
Var tells the ref to check the monitor
Ref says no goal and books Lindelof

Edited by B Maverick
Edited to ask someone to explain how thats a foul on lindelof...
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20 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Watching United play the other top sides is a chore.  

Everything about that game was rediculously poor. 

Both teams sucked, the announcers and analysts were asinine and the refing was terrible.  

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Tottenham with two league wins in a row?!?!

Anyone watching Pool v. Chelski?

I have it on but also working.

(I have already cancelled my Peacock subscription, but I have another few weeks so I'm trying to get the most out of it.)

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18 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

OMG this VAR offside thing will be the death of us all.

 

Yeah, it's silly. If anything, the other player who was clearly offside had at least some impact on the play and think that was more legitimate than the actual call.

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Oh, and Liverpool is just a mess. I don't really understand what's going on, honestly. I mean, yeah, injuries, especially VVD, but it's still an incredibly strong lineup and they are just so toothless on attack. 

I don't think they even qualify for CL next year, which is ridiculous.

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Entry 57 from the "it's a ####ty rule" file:

Robertson is holding a line that's playing Ziyach offside.  It's not close, Ziyach has been trapped.  Robertson is playing him at the same time he's making a run and the ball is being played.  Ziyach is 100% involved in the play.

But that's not what the refs ruled.  Thankfully Werner was off by a fraction anyhow, but it really is just an atrocious rule.  No idea what they think defenders are supposed to do.

 

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Oh, and Liverpool is just a mess. I don't really understand what's going on, honestly. I mean, yeah, injuries, especially VVD, but it's still an incredibly strong lineup and they are just so toothless on attack. 

I don't think they even qualify for CL next year, which is ridiculous.

Its not just VVD - both CBs and Henderson out.

Henderson is one of the key guys on that squad - always turning up in the right place to help keep possession, or to break up a play.

But, without the solid defense at the back - it affects everything Liverpool try to do up front - fullbacks can't push up, CMs are staying deeper, etc.

 

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18 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Its not just VVD - both CBs and Henderson out.

Henderson is one of the key guys on that squad - always turning up in the right place to help keep possession, or to break up a play.

But, without the solid defense at the back - it affects everything Liverpool try to do up front - fullbacks can't push up, CMs are staying deeper, etc.

 

Henderson just got injured. Stuff has been going on far longer.  But yeah, the rest make sense. It's just so frustrating to watch.

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27 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Entry 57 from the "it's a ####ty rule" file:

Robertson is holding a line that's playing Ziyach offside.  It's not close, Ziyach has been trapped.  Robertson is playing him at the same time he's making a run and the ball is being played.  Ziyach is 100% involved in the play.

But that's not what the refs ruled.  Thankfully Werner was off by a fraction anyhow, but it really is just an atrocious rule.  No idea what they think defenders are supposed to do.

 

I guess we don't know exactly what VAR guys are looking at, but the TV guys are 100% focused on Werner's thumb being offside, drawing imaginary lines on the monitor and such, while no one mentions Ziyech a full yard offside streaking directly toward the center of goal. 

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7 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I guess we don't know exactly what VAR guys are looking at, but the TV guys are 100% focused on Werner's thumb being offside, drawing imaginary lines on the monitor and such, while no one mentions Ziyech a full yard offside streaking directly toward the center of goal. 

Right. That's what I was talking about above. 

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28 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Right. That's what I was talking about above. 

I agree completely, but its not even a consideration anymore.  They've been calling players in that position passive for at least 10 years now.  It is completely baffling and the current state of VAR only makes it worse. To ignore this, while focusing on an offside shirt sleeve - it's awful.

 

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

OMG this VAR offside thing will be the death of us all.

 

Will be?

 

The application of the offside rule and how linesman call it due to VAR is worse then anything else they have done.  There is no consistency in calls by the linesman and its the only call they don't apply the clear and obvious mantra too.  And its causing them to have to change the rules every month, well that and handballs (Arm area covered by your sleeve is now not a handball so it can be offside).

VAR in itself was a good idea. Clear and Obvious mistakes (like the City player 5 yards offside scoring a goal).  Not nit picking a knee being off or scrolling back 5 mins to see if someone fouled someone in a buildup to a goal. Oh and NOT having the refs go to the monitor to make the calls themselves.  Only the FA could have effed it up this bad.

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Oh and I didn't realize Fulham had a goal called back since it hit an attackers arm in the buildup.... with his arm directly at his side and nowhere else on the pitch would that be a handball.  Or a PK if he was the defender.

 

:censored::rant:

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While we’re complaining, have they changed how own goals are being awarded?  I don’t have any stats, but seems like they are going crazy with own goals this year relative to total goals. Stuff like the Dele Ali goal I would rather just see it be a goal. It was clearly a shot that touches a defender. I’m not convinced it wasn’t going in and I’m not even convinced he didn’t already have the goalie beaten.  In any case, I don’t really like them picking through trying to guess if a shot might have tailed off the post or not. If a guy takes a real shot with a chance for goal, let’s give it. 

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43 minutes ago, B Maverick said:

Oh and I didn't realize Fulham had a goal called back since it hit an attackers arm in the buildup.... with his arm directly at his side and nowhere else on the pitch would that be a handball.  Or a PK if he was the defender.

 

:censored::rant:

Not to worry.

 

Rule changed today.

 

(But it was the rule yesterday - any handball, even accidental, in the buildup to a goal was disallowed.  Now - only an accidental handball by the player who scores will be disallowed).

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16 hours ago, B Maverick said:

The application of the offside rule and how linesman call it due to VAR is worse then anything else they have done. 

:goodposting:

 

It also leads to bad results - linesman keeps the flag down, play goes on, leads to a corner kick - but because of no goal, no off-side review.

 

And, there is also the absurd results where a player is clearly off-side, but the linesman allows play to continue - when it is obvious - put up the flag.

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1 hour ago, cheese said:

While we’re complaining, have they changed how own goals are being awarded?  I don’t have any stats, but seems like they are going crazy with own goals this year relative to total goals. Stuff like the Dele Ali goal I would rather just see it be a goal. It was clearly a shot that touches a defender. I’m not convinced it wasn’t going in and I’m not even convinced he didn’t already have the goalie beaten.  In any case, I don’t really like them picking through trying to guess if a shot might have tailed off the post or not. If a guy takes a real shot with a chance for goal, let’s give it. 

Didn't realize that was ruled an OG.  Totally agree with your sentiment, I thought it was on target before the defender clipped it.  

Sheesh.

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1 hour ago, cheese said:

While we’re complaining, have they changed how own goals are being awarded?  I don’t have any stats, but seems like they are going crazy with own goals this year relative to total goals. Stuff like the Dele Ali goal I would rather just see it be a goal. It was clearly a shot that touches a defender. I’m not convinced it wasn’t going in and I’m not even convinced he didn’t already have the goalie beaten.  In any case, I don’t really like them picking through trying to guess if a shot might have tailed off the post or not. If a guy takes a real shot with a chance for goal, let’s give it. 

I think the OG rule is pretty well clarified - any shot that is on target gets credit with the goal.  In Dele's case yesterday, it was not clearly on target without the defenders intervention.

I have no idea how they make that call - but I think they do take a closer look - given that these are not made official until several minutes after the goal itself is scored.

In the end I think it evens out - because there have been some shots that, even though on target, only went in via deflection from a defender, and those goals are given to the shooter.

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I think the OG rule is pretty well clarified - any shot that is on target gets credit with the goal.  In Dele's case yesterday, it was not clearly on target without the defenders intervention.

I have no idea how they make that call - but I think they do take a closer look - given that these are not made official until several minutes after the goal itself is scored.

In the end I think it evens out - because there have been some shots that, even though on target, only went in via deflection from a defender, and those goals are given to the shooter.

I’m sure you’re right, but I think the standard should be the opposite. If it’s not clearly off target, the shooter should get it.  

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39 minutes ago, cheese said:

If it’s not clearly off target,

How are you defining this?

I think they do try to apply it as you want - but the league presumably reviews shots with better angles to make the determination if the shot is on target or not.

I think this would be one where attackers and defenders agree - attackers want the goals (maybe even for financial reasons), and defenders don't want the OG - so I suspect the league tries to get it right.

 

 

(I have two fantasy teams - one started Dele, one started Adarabioyo - so I had a vested interest in it being a Dele goal, and not an OG, but I think they got it right.  Dele's flick, on its own, would have gone wide - I think).

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I guess I should add - I am not certain its the league that makes the call here - at least initially.  It might be a call made by Opta initially, and can be challenged later.

 

(Kane famously (infamously?) challenged a goal given to Eriksen, claiming it went off a strand of hair before going in - and the goal was ultimately given to Kane).

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2 hours ago, B Maverick said:

Oh and I didn't realize Fulham had a goal called back since it hit an attackers arm in the buildup.... with his arm directly at his side and nowhere else on the pitch would that be a handball.  Or a PK if he was the defender.

 

:censored::rant:

That was textbook example of how fubar this is. Aside from detaching his arms and leaving them on the sidelines, I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do there.

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9 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Kane famously (infamously?) challenged a goal given to Eriksen, claiming it went off a strand of hair before going in - and the goal was ultimately given to Kane).

Harry Kane, he got clout. Other djs, he'll take their goals out.

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15 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

That was textbook example of how fubar this is. Aside from detaching his arms and leaving them on the sidelines, I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do there.

To be fair - the rule - prior to today - was not that it was a handball offense - but that any accidental handball in the lead up to a goal would nullify the goal.

I'm not defending the rule - just that it was properly applied to that situation - yesterday.

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44 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

To be fair - the rule - prior to today - was not that it was a handball offense - but that any accidental handball in the lead up to a goal would nullify the goal.

I'm not defending the rule - just that it was properly applied to that situation - yesterday.

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3 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

To be fair - the rule - prior to today - was not that it was a handball offense - but that any accidental handball in the lead up to a goal would nullify the goal.

I'm not defending the rule - just that it was properly applied to that situation - yesterday.

You are correct, but this is a recent rule and this play showed why the rule as written was ridiculous.  They ruled out a perfectly good goal because of a rule written so generally to fix something that was not really an issue.  

Like VAR applying offside, this was more of a letter of the law then a spirit of the law call.  Both are right technically, but not what they were aiming for.

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So that Chels v Liverpool game...

Kante was incredible. All over the field covering and destroying pool attacks and then all over the field to support chels, while pinging fantastic one and two touch balls to best the press. Best he's looked in blue that I've seen.

Mount is the real deal. Week in, he's their best player. Kid commits to everything he does and usually executes it.

Werner was also amazing. The work he puts in is astonishing, especially defensively. But then also kills himself to constantly get into great spots offensively. appears that tuchel has set things up tactically to open the space up better for werner, who needs to be facing goal not back to goal, when receiving the ball. goals are going to start pouring in for him.

Speaking of space, chels shape was flawless. They defended and attacked with numbers, and never seemed stretched. The players on the field worked their asses off and all seemed to know exactly what was expected of them.

It does seem like between mount and werner, they need a third attacking player to do better. Ziyech is struggling. CP too. CHO and Giroud seem the most in form.

 

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28 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

So that Chels v Liverpool game...

Kante was incredible. All over the field covering and destroying pool attacks and then all over the field to support chels, while pinging fantastic one and two touch balls to best the press. Best he's looked in blue that I've seen.

Mount is the real deal. Week in, he's their best player. Kid commits to everything he does and usually executes it.

Werner was also amazing. The work he puts in is astonishing, especially defensively. But then also kills himself to constantly get into great spots offensively. appears that tuchel has set things up tactically to open the space up better for werner, who needs to be facing goal not back to goal, when receiving the ball. goals are going to start pouring in for him.

Speaking of space, chels shape was flawless. They defended and attacked with numbers, and never seemed stretched. The players on the field worked their asses off and all seemed to know exactly what was expected of them.

It does seem like between mount and werner, they need a third attacking player to do better. Ziyech is struggling. CP too. CHO and Giroud seem the most in form.

The fact that you broke down this game and didn't mention Liverpool once explains the season perfectly.

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