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[DYNASTY] Lamar Jackson, MVP, Madden Cover. Hopefully Develops as a Passer


massraider

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Interesting conversation about Lamar's awareness. I agree - it's almost like he is able to process things a fraction of a second faster than everyone else. I see it in his signature running move, which to me is the way he'll suddenly stop while running at full speed and just let his pursuer go flying by. In those moments, it's like he is intuitively aware of how fast he's going, how fast the pursuer is closing, and when to hit the brakes. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone do it like he does - maybe Barry Sanders? But even for Sanders it was often more of a sudden change of direction rather than a full stop. Though I do worry that he might get blindsided doing that someday, stopping to let one guy fly by and then getting crushed from behind by another defender he was unaware of in his blind spot.

His awareness also shows in his decision-making about when to handoff and when to keep the ball. I can think of maybe 2 times all season where he kept the ball when he should have handed it off, or vice versa. It's incredible how quickly he can surmise if the end is crashing down on the RB, or staying outside to take away the end from Lamar. Again, his processing speed in making the right decision is remarkable.

Harbaugh has been praising his football smarts all season long. My biggest wish at this point is that he doesn't break the pocket and scramble quite enough for my liking. I'll have to look back but it seems like he only scrambles when he's forced outside the pocket or on a planned rollout; inside the pocket he stays and stays, looking for a target until sometimes it's too late and he's sacked. I'd love to see him tuck it up and run a little earlier sometimes. But then again, teams have been playing a spy in the middle of the field a lot, so maybe that's why he only seems to scramble to the outside. 

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He's probably convinced the whole fantasy world by now right? 

So what is he worth in dynasty?  Is he the clear 1.01 in superflex types of leagues?  Do you easily trade him away now that everyone is on board?  Is a guy like Keenan Allen enough (I say no but my friend says its even)?  

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4 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

He's probably convinced the whole fantasy world by now right? 

So what is he worth in dynasty?  Is he the clear 1.01 in superflex types of leagues?  Do you easily trade him away now that everyone is on board?  Is a guy like Keenan Allen enough (I say no but my friend says its even)?  

I don't see anything but McCaffrey moving the needle in those leagues.

In 1 QB leagues maybe you could have some reasonable discussions. I still don't see much reason to sell him.

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

I don't see anything but McCaffrey moving the needle in those leagues.

In 1 QB leagues maybe you could have some reasonable discussions. I still don't see much reason to sell him.

No reason to sell sure, but if he is on a team that needs lots of work who do you sell for?  

McCaffrey, Dalvin maybe?, Barkley, Mahomes+, Godwin+ maybe? /endlist?

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9 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I don't see anything but McCaffrey moving the needle in those leagues.

In 1 QB leagues maybe you could have some reasonable discussions. I still don't see much reason to sell him.

I worry enough about the added injury risk from all the running that I'd consider Mahomes + a secondary piece.

McCaffery would be tempting too, but doesn't have the same longevity advantage.

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Lamar Jackson completed 15-of-20 passes for 169 yards and five touchdowns in the Ravens' Week 12 blowout win over the Rams Monday night, adding 95 rushing yards on eight attempts.

As has become the norm with the Ravens, Jackson got the night off early with the Ravens clocking the Rams 42-6 early in the fourth quarter. L.A. had zero answer for anything the Ravens were doing offensively. The Ravens were 9-of-12 on third downs when Jackson left the game, and no matter the distance on them, it seemed like a near lock they'd convert. Jackson's five touchdowns went to Marquise Brown (two), Willie Snead (two), and Mark Ingram. It's scary to think Jackson is doing all of this with maybe the weakest receiver group in the NFL. With tonight's effort, Jackson became the first player in league history with four-plus passing touchdowns and 50-plus rushing yards in back-to-back games. He's the MVP. Hands down. The Ravens host the 49ers in Week 13.

 

Edited by The Frankman
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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

If Greg Roman leaves I’d be worried. I think a lot of his value is tied to his OC 

I’ve already been hearing scuttlebutt that the Ravens are willing to make him a very highly compensated OC rather than losing him. 

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12 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

No reason to sell sure, but if he is on a team that needs lots of work who do you sell for?  

McCaffrey, Dalvin maybe?, Barkley, Mahomes+, Godwin+ maybe? /endlist?

In a scenario where Jackson is my only piece then picks and young WRs.

If you are loaded then an upgrade to McCaffrey would be a short term play for championship push, assuming you have or are getting a QB who will be a downgrade, but maybe not as large a margin as McCaffrey and who your starting at RB.

 

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13 minutes ago, Arodin said:

I worry enough about the added injury risk from all the running that I'd consider Mahomes + a secondary piece.

McCaffery would be tempting too, but doesn't have the same longevity advantage.

I agree Jackson better from a long term view than McCaffrey, but also additional risk of injury because of how much he runs. 

Luck ran a lot and retiree early. You never know.

It's such a huge advantage though. Look at the points man!!

That's an edge that I want a part of for however long it lasts. Its unique.  Its irreplacable.

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25 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

I’ve already been hearing scuttlebutt that the Ravens are willing to make him a very highly compensated OC rather than losing him. 

It is very fortunate for Lamar Jackson that Greg Roman elevated himself from middling offensive mind to innovative chess master right when Lamar Jackson arrived.   

Also, Lamar, congratulations on the happy event that all of your offensive linemen improved their run blocking dramatically right before you started.  

Edited by massraider
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Assume MVP is his to lose at this point? Kind of a 3-man race in the media's eyes coming into the weekend... Lamar, Wilson, and Prescott all playing on the road... one clearly stood out above the other two.

Honorable mention - Christian McCaffrey... playing great, but on a middle-of-the-road team.

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5 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

I'm definitely buying a Wild Dog sweatshirt with all the riches this guy is going to win me

Cleaning up 

5 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Assume MVP is his to lose at this point? Kind of a 3-man race in the media's eyes coming into the weekend... Lamar, Wilson, and Prescott all playing on the road... one clearly stood out above the other two.

Honorable mention - Christian McCaffrey... playing great, but on a middle-of-the-road team.

You have to be out of your mind to cast a vote for anyone other than Lamar 

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7 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Assume MVP is his to lose at this point? Kind of a 3-man race in the media's eyes coming into the weekend... Lamar, Wilson, and Prescott all playing on the road... one clearly stood out above the other two.

Honorable mention - Christian McCaffrey... playing great, but on a middle-of-the-road team.

Prescott is a distant third.  Its lamar by a mile

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27 minutes ago, need2know said:

Prescott is a distant third.  Its lamar by a mile

But Dak actually finishes games. I can’t vote for an MVP who only plays 3/4 of a game. The 4th quarter is where champions are made and Lamar rarely plays in them anymore. His poor fantasy owners who see him come out of the game with 15 minutes left are likely suffering big time over his inability to finish. 

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

But Dak actually finishes games. I can’t vote for an MVP who only plays 3/4 of a game. The 4th quarter is where champions are made and Lamar rarely plays in them anymore. His poor fantasy owners who see him come out of the game with 15 minutes left are likely suffering big time over his inability to finish. 

Umm.... you mean Dak plays 4 quarters. having not beaten a single team with a winning record, you can't quite say that Dak finishes anything.

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11 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

I agree Jackson better from a long term view than McCaffrey, but also additional risk of injury because of how much he runs. 

Luck ran a lot and retiree early. You never know.

It's such a huge advantage though. Look at the points man!!

That's an edge that I want a part of for however long it lasts. Its unique.  Its irreplacable.

They run completely differently......and I don't mean the speed.  Lamar has an awareness that I have never seen in a QB.  Last night was the first night I have actually seen him take a big hit (by Brockers in the 1st quarter).  I know it only takes one but for some reason I don't get the "worry of injury" feeling when he takes off like I do with other mobile QB's.  He glides around and by everyone so easily with such awareness it is just different.  Hard to explain in words.  It's just different. 

 

Injury risk is always there, I just don't think it's much higher than any other player regardless of his play style. 

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1 hour ago, Dizzy said:

Umm.... you mean Dak plays 4 quarters. having not beaten a single team with a winning record, you can't quite say that Dak finishes anything.

Well I was obviously joking so I didn’t mean anything. Dak has played very well this year. His coaches have made some questionable decisions though.

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

They run completely differently......and I don't mean the speed.  Lamar has an awareness that I have never seen in a QB.  Last night was the first night I have actually seen him take a big hit (by Brockers in the 1st quarter).  I know it only takes one but for some reason I don't get the "worry of injury" feeling when he takes off like I do with other mobile QB's.  He glides around and by everyone so easily with such awareness it is just different.  Hard to explain in words.  It's just different. 

 

Injury risk is always there, I just don't think it's much higher than any other player regardless of his play style. 

I agree they are different. Was just trying to give an example of a QB who ran a fair amount who was injured.

Any player can get injured on any given play. I don't want to play scared. So I will cross that bridge if I come to it. Just acknowledging that it is additional risk, I am not sure how much more risk or how to quantify that.

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13 hours ago, metoo said:

I got offered a late 2020 1st. Lamar and CMC have been killing it for me.

I tried moving him right before the season started because I also had Mahomes and Allen at QB. A guy offered me a 3rd round rookie pick and I countered with Jackson and a 4th for a 2nd. He turned it down. Had another owner say they had no interest in him in a single QB league. Sometimes the best trades are the ones you can't get done.

Edited by mcd
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On 11/20/2019 at 7:47 PM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Thnx. I agree with the RGIII point. And, to take that "awareness" beyond just running; in the same game thread I mentioned above, I compared him to D. Watson. In that game, Watson showed off the charts athleticism as well. However, on one particular play, his ability to stay on his feet (from his athleticism) actually backfired on him, because he lost his focus and threw the ball straight into a Balt defender's hands. I am not saying that Watson has bad awareness. I am saying that his awareness failed him on that play. LJ does not lose his focus in that way very often. And, it should improve as the game slows down for him.

Further, awareness plays a much larger role in the passing game than is often cited. People most often talk about the ability to absorb a playbook and then read the defense while going through the progression. This skips what may be the most important part; awareness of the environment. One cannot "read" what they are not "aware" of. Worse, if one is not aware of the actual environment, then one is more likely to assume it corresponds to the "X's & O's" that has been committed to mental & body memory through repetitive practice.

I believe that many QB's are unfairly criticized for their ability to "read" a def. Often, when they are aware, they read perfectly fine. However, in the heat of the game, awareness breaks down, and bad decisions are made not from a bad "read", but from reading faulty data caused by awareness gaps. LJ exceles in this type of awareness as well. He is not overly reliant on the "virtual reality" of a highly practiced play. While it is very important to have this "virtual reality memory" skill (most often demonstrated when the pass is made before a receiver even makes the break in order to get open); it is more important to be aware in order to both avoid mistakes and capitalize on opportunities.

Further, when you are a running QB, this awareness transfers over to the run option plays. So, even before we get to the up-close awareness of eluding defenders, a QB like LJ has a multitude of potential advantages long term, even if his running game is taken away or limited ... which makes him even more difficult to counteract for D coordinators. 

I enjoyed this conversation last week and thought of it last night, when Lamar's processing speed seemed obviously ahead of everyone else on the field's. It's like he's Neo in The Matrix - very calm and relaxed as he goes about his business, never rushing, and yet moving noticeably faster than everyone else. One play summed it up - he got flushed out of the pocket to his right and yet he remained totally relaxed in the face of an unblocked rusher, took a little time to direct traffic, then drilled Boyle at the sticks for something like an 8-yard game. In the context of his many great plays last night, it was no big deal except for how it demonstrated his complete awareness and control.

Wade Phillips threw everything at him. One TD was vs an all-out blitz with zero coverage from the Safety. Another came on a 3-man rush with 8 defenders dropped into zone. He made flawless reads all night. 

Who knows how long this can last? He did take more solid shots last night than he has pretty much all season. If this is a comet flashing across the landscape, never to be seen again quite like this, then I'm just going to enjoy every bit of it while it's here. When's the last time a football player made his team's games must-watch television?

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14 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

If Greg Roman leaves I’d be worried. I think a lot of his value is tied to his OC 

That's funny because when that clown was in SF, I had to give up on Frank Gore. He singlehandedly turned Gore into a ham & egger from a stud RB.

Norv Turner, Jim 'clueless' Hostler, even Jimmy Raye all got the ball to Frank Gore about 70+ catches a year. That clown came in and the passing game to the RB disappeared. It's plain as day in Gores stat sheet. You can pick out the 4 years that loser was the OC.

I doubt losing Roman will hurt at all. He will however further destroy whatever team he goes to. Roman is total fools gold.

Credit should go to the OL because it is easily top 5 if not #1.

Edited by lod001
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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Well I was obviously joking so I didn’t mean anything. Dak has played very well this year. His coaches have made some questionable decisions though.

Agreed.

Saw a list this morning of 6 active NFL head coaches w/ 10 (or more) years on the job... Garrett only name on the list w/o Super Bowl win (and long list of play off appearances).

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