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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (4 Viewers)

lod001 said:
That's funny because when that clown was in SF, I had to give up on Frank Gore. He singlehandedly turned Gore into a ham & egger from a stud RB.

Norv Turner, Jim 'clueless' Hostler, even Jimmy Raye all got the ball to Frank Gore about 70+ catches a year. That clown came in and the passing game to the RB disappeared. It's plain as day in Gores stat sheet. You can pick out the 4 years that loser was the OC.

I doubt losing Roman will hurt at all. He will however further destroy whatever team he goes to. Roman is total fools gold.

Credit should go to the OL because it is easily top 5 if not #1.
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How did his offense make Colin Kaepernick look while he was there with Jim Harbaugh?

 
Weebs210 said:
People actually sold this guy 😂
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I sold Deshaun Watson for a top 5 rookie pick in 2020.....I went with LAAAAMAAAARRRR!

It's crazy. In my longtime dynasty league I was able to draft Cam Newton in round 3 (he won me a title) drafted Deshaun Watson in round 3 and grabbed Lamar in round 2. I decided early on this season to rebuild my squad around Lamar. I love Deshaun too.....but like Biabreakable said....the rushing yards are insane. He is two players in one and I want to ride that for however long I can. And you can bet I will draft a rookie QB every year moving forward. I always have when I see a great undervalued talent. The position has evolved and changed a lot. Athletic QB's are here to stay and will be drafted accordingly by NFL teams. Build a new system around your talent. That is what great coaches do. 

 
I have not yet organized all of my thoughts from last nights game. This time, I'd like to review some clips.

At one time, I subscribed to the NFL Gamepass (? I think that is what it was called then) that had multiple camera views available - without sound. Does anyone know of any good free sources for game film?

 
Biabreakable said:
I agree they are different. Was just trying to give an example of a QB who ran a fair amount who was injured.

Any player can get injured on any given play. I don't want to play scared. So I will cross that bridge if I come to it. Just acknowledging that it is additional risk, I am not sure how much more risk or how to quantify that.
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Steve Young was a tremendous scrambler.....Lamar just takes it to a new level. But I remember Young and he would dazzle with his legs too. That is the last running QB who also has this type of passing ability. (Cunningham to a lesser degree). Vick never had the accuracy that Lamar is now showing.

 
sneakerfreak said:
Ummm... Mahomes last season?
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I can see that. Just for me, QBs throwing passes has never been true appointment viewing. The reason Lamar is so exciting to me is the feeling you might see something you've never seen before - and that's not a feeling I generally get from passers, though Mahomes last year came close as did Favre in his prime. 

The guys that come to my mind are Deion returning punts, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, and sometimes Lawrence Taylor - guys in the field of play using their power and elusiveness to do something spectacular. 

 
Zyphros said:
He's probably convinced the whole fantasy world by now right? 

So what is he worth in dynasty?  Is he the clear 1.01 in superflex types of leagues?  Do you easily trade him away now that everyone is on board?  Is a guy like Keenan Allen enough (I say no but my friend says its even)?  
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I traded a 2020 mid-late 1st and 2nd for him about a month ago.  I think he is worth even more now.  

 
The_Man said:
I can see that. Just for me, QBs throwing passes has never been true appointment viewing. The reason Lamar is so exciting to me is the feeling you might see something you've never seen before - and that's not a feeling I generally get from passers, though Mahomes last year came close as did Favre in his prime. 

The guys that come to my mind are Deion returning punts, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, and sometimes Lawrence Taylor - guys in the field of play using their power and elusiveness to do something spectacular. 
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Back in my time Dan Marino was insane to watch. He to this day made passes....no one ever has. The incredible precision, accuracy and just the quick release....it was something to behold. I too also loved watching Favre's career. Toughest QB I ever watched in my life and damn could he fling it. 

 
The_Man said:
I can see that. Just for me, QBs throwing passes has never been true appointment viewing. The reason Lamar is so exciting to me is the feeling you might see something you've never seen before - and that's not a feeling I generally get from passers, though Mahomes last year came close as did Favre in his prime. 

The guys that come to my mind are Deion returning punts, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, and sometimes Lawrence Taylor - guys in the field of play using their power and elusiveness to do something spectacular. 
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Good examples. 

IRT "power", I will nominate Earl Campbell to this list as well. As a kid, I got to see most of this live. 

Oilers 34 was the last NFL jersey I owned ... till now. 

Thnx, LJ 😍

 
The_Man said:
I enjoyed this conversation last week and thought of it last night, when Lamar's processing speed seemed obviously ahead of everyone else on the field's. It's like he's Neo in The Matrix - very calm and relaxed as he goes about his business, never rushing, and yet moving noticeably faster than everyone else. One play summed it up - he got flushed out of the pocket to his right and yet he remained totally relaxed in the face of an unblocked rusher, took a little time to direct traffic, then drilled Boyle at the sticks for something like an 8-yard game. In the context of his many great plays last night, it was no big deal except for how it demonstrated his complete awareness and control.

Wade Phillips threw everything at him. One TD was vs an all-out blitz with zero coverage from the Safety. Another came on a 3-man rush with 8 defenders dropped into zone. He made flawless reads all night. 

Who knows how long this can last? He did take more solid shots last night than he has pretty much all season. If this is a comet flashing across the landscape, never to be seen again quite like this, then I'm just going to enjoy every bit of it while it's here. When's the last time a football player made his team's games must-watch television?
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I was thinking about this last night.  I couldn’t think of anyone since Barry Sanders that provokes as much entertainment and pure joy watching, irrespective of score and game outcome, as Lamar.

And let’s be honest, Lamar has a lot more impact on a game than Barry even; and he’s my favorite RB I’ve ever seen play.

The closest other comp I can  think of as a runner isn’t even Vick - who was fast as all heck, and had good one cut ability, but neither the fluidity or overall change of direction multiple times that we see with Lamar.  Only thin I’ve seen like they are the tapes of Gale freakin’ Sayers.

cant believe this is one of my two teams (Born in Baltimore raised in NY, so Ravens and O’s, Giants, Mets, Knick’s and Isles). The only thing close to this much fun to watch was the LT led Giants D... but with the Ravens you have a seemingly unstoppable offense that is as different as Lamar is special, and a growingly impactful defense (not to mention arguably the best kicker ever and certainly of today plus overall great special teams). 
 

It’s like they have all the fundamentals as a foundation and throw in the most special single talent we’ve seen at the most important position, maybe ever (again, have to see if he can keep it going health wise and when there is an offseason to try and limit what their offense is going... but damn, it’s like one of those unstoppable option running games AND the ability to throw a great touch pass and wonderful deep ball all in one)

 
rickyg said:
I traded a 2020 mid-late 1st and 2nd for him about a month ago.  I think he is worth even more now.  
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Last off season I traded pick 1.08 (turned out to be Hockenson) for Jackson in a Super Flex league.    I have been happy with the results. 

 
Koya said:
I was thinking about this last night.  I couldn’t think of anyone since Barry Sanders that provokes as much entertainment and pure joy watching, irrespective of score and game outcome, as Lamar.

And let’s be honest, Lamar has a lot more impact on a game than Barry even; and he’s my favorite RB I’ve ever seen

The closest other comp I can  think of as a runner isn’t even Vick - who was fast as all heck, and had good one cut ability, but neither the fluidity or overall change of direction multiple times that we see with Lamar.  Only thin I’ve seen like they are the tapes of Gale freakin’ Sayers.
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People say Vick and/or Cunningham all the time. But it’s not really that close. Both of them had much stronger arms (if you’ve seen Lamar throw the deep out, it’s not pretty and from the far hash it’s actually bad) but less accuracy, especially Vick  

I’ve also been saying Sayers as a runner. And then I’ve been trying to think who’s the comp as a passer. The closest I’ve come up with is Chad Pennington. So if you put Chad Pennington into Gale Sayers’ body, that’s a pretty good player 

 
The_Man said:
People say Vick and/or Cunningham all the time. But it’s not really that close. Both of them had much stronger arms (if you’ve seen Lamar throw the deep out, it’s not pretty and from the far hash it’s actually bad) but less accuracy, especially Vick  

I’ve also been saying Sayers as a runner. And then I’ve been trying to think who’s the comp as a passer. The closest I’ve come up with is Chad Pennington. So if you put Chad Pennington into Gale Sayers’ body, that’s a pretty good player 
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It's a good comp IMO. Chad before he destroyed his shoulder was a solid player. 

 
The_Man said:
People say Vick and/or Cunningham all the time. But it’s not really that close. Both of them had much stronger arms (if you’ve seen Lamar throw the deep out, it’s not pretty and from the far hash it’s actually bad) but less accuracy, especially Vick  

I’ve also been saying Sayers as a runner. And then I’ve been trying to think who’s the comp as a passer. The closest I’ve come up with is Chad Pennington. So if you put Chad Pennington into Gale Sayers’ body, that’s a pretty good player 
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I remain convinced that Buddy Ryan kept Cunningham from being a HOFer. That guy had every tool, just horrible coaching.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I remain convinced that Buddy Ryan kept Cunningham from being a HOFer. That guy had every tool, just horrible coaching.
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This is another reason that Lamar is in a great situation.  The coaching staff actually tailored their entire offense to his strengths and drafted to his strengths as well.  Without this there is a good chance Lamar would be an exciting but misused asset. 

 
Gally said:
This is another reason that Lamar is in a great situation.  The coaching staff actually tailored their entire offense to his strengths and drafted to his strengths as well.  Without this there is a good chance Lamar would be an exciting but misused asset. 
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That's called good coaching, which is increasingly rare.

 
The_Man said:
I can see that. Just for me, QBs throwing passes has never been true appointment viewing. The reason Lamar is so exciting to me is the feeling you might see something you've never seen before - and that's not a feeling I generally get from passers, though Mahomes last year came close as did Favre in his prime. 

The guys that come to my mind are Deion returning punts, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, and sometimes Lawrence Taylor - guys in the field of play using their power and elusiveness to do something spectacular. 
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Barry was in a class by himself on this.  But more recently there was a run where any game JJ Watt was in had the potential to be special.

The Greatest Show on Turf was a thing of beauty as well.

 
Man, I sure was wrong about Jackson.  I believed he couldn’t hit the ocean if he was standing two feet in front of it.

 
tangfoot said:
I’ve already been hearing scuttlebutt that the Ravens are willing to make him a very highly compensated OC rather than losing him. 
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Yea they might wanna pump the brakes on that... Kaepernick looked like a world-beater in his first season starting or so but it only got worse from there. 

Teams eventually adjusted to Kaepernick by taking away throws to the middle of the field and making him make accurate throws to the sidelines. That's exactly what I'd try w/ Jackson, leave my corners on islands and play high-low w/ the safeties. Roman's RPOs always seem to have the primary reads in the middle of the field to make the run read for the QB much easier.

And I dunno if this is still legal, but why don't DCs just tell the isolated end to just ignore the RB everytime on a RPO and just tackle the QB?

 
chinawildman said:
Yea they might wanna pump the brakes on that... Kaepernick looked like a world-beater in his first season starting or so but it only got worse from there. 

Teams eventually adjusted to Kaepernick by taking away throws to the middle of the field and making him make accurate throws to the sidelines. That's exactly what I'd try w/ Jackson, leave my corners on islands and play high-low w/ the safeties. Roman's RPOs always seem to have the primary reads in the middle of the field to make the run read for the QB much easier.

And I dunno if this is still legal, but why don't DCs just tell the isolated end to just ignore the RB everytime on a RPO and just tackle the QB?
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Because then the RB gains big yards every time?

 
James Daulton said:
Because then the RB gains big yards every time?
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For real.

I can remember folks espousing the "just hit the QB every time" against Nebraska and Oklahoma back in the day. Meanwhile those teams ran for 600 yards and almost never passed the ball. Some fools still try it against Navy, who doesn't have elite athletes and almost never passes the ball. 

That's college, though.....

The Ravens DO pass the ball. So, not only can the RB break big gains, but it also opens up the middle for passing to open guys. And, here's the key so far for Baltimore - Lamar Jackson is faster than every defender on the field. You miss the hit on him, he's off to the races.

Eric Weddle, considered one the the smartest DBs in the league for as long as he's played, said after Monday's game (paraphrasing) "I didn't know who had the ball half the time"

 
Uruk-Hai said:
For real.

I can remember folks espousing the "just hit the QB every time" against Nebraska and Oklahoma back in the day. Meanwhile those teams ran for 600 yards and almost never passed the ball. Some fools still try it against Navy, who doesn't have elite athletes and almost never passes the ball. 

That's college, though.....

The Ravens DO pass the ball. So, not only can the RB break big gains, but it also opens up the middle for passing to open guys. And, here's the key so far for Baltimore - Lamar Jackson is faster than every defender on the field. You miss the hit on him, he's off to the races.

Eric Weddle, considered one the the smartest DBs in the league for as long as he's played, said after Monday's game (paraphrasing) "I didn't know who had the ball half the time"
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And if you spy LJ you're already removing a guy from coverage so now you crash the DE into him?  As you said, the middle would be wide open and LJ can actually throw the ball real good. 

 
James Daulton said:
And if you spy LJ you're already removing a guy from coverage so now you crash the DE into him?  As you said, the middle would be wide open and LJ can actually throw the ball real good. 
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As others have pointed out, he's not good throwing across the field. I'd keep everyone in the middle, hope my front 4 can collapse the pocket, and that my CBs can stick with the Ravens receivers out there.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
As others have pointed out, he's not good throwing across the field. I'd keep everyone in the middle, hope my front 4 can collapse the pocket, and that my CBs can stick with the Ravens receivers out there.
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Not good at throwing across the field?  He's made all the throws this year, what am I missing?

 
James Daulton said:
Not good at throwing across the field?  He's made all the throws this year, what am I missing?
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They've done a good job of not having him throw hash mark to hash mark. His ball floats when he has to do it. To be fair, not many QBs can be accurate with that that throw. Elway was the best I've ever seen do it.

 
James Daulton said:
Not good at throwing across the field?  He's made all the throws this year, what am I missing?
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He really can’t throw deep outs on a line, definitely not from the far hash (though that’s a tough throw for most QBs). Ironically that was probably the only throw Flacco excelled at. 

I’d play press coverage on the outside, zone underneath and go with a muddle rush that keeps him in the pocket and fills running lanes up the middle. 

 
Uruk-Hai said:
They've done a good job of not having him throw hash mark to hash mark. His ball floats when he has to do it. To be fair, not many QBs can be accurate with that that throw. Elway was the best I've ever seen do it.
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Ah, yea that's a tough throw for almost all QBs.  I don't think that in itself is enough of a limiting factor to force him into those throws.

 
As expected, there has been a lot of LJ discussion on the networks today. One of the comments that I heard earlier this week was (paraphrase):

"Jackson is the new paradigm at QB."

Honestly, I don't see this. IMO, LJ is too unique to become a "paradigm", but I do think that his current success will open the door for other non-typical qbs. The questions is: who can follow suit? I honestly don't know.

Can't wait for kickoff!

 
Lamar Jackson completed 14-of-23 passes for 105 yards and a touchdown in the Ravens' 20-17, Week 13 win over the 49ers, adding 16 carries for 101 additional yards and a touchdown.

Playing in swirling rain — Jackson admitted after the game that he was bothered by the conditions — the sophomore quarterback had a forgettable day as a passer, completing just three throws to wide receivers. As usual, he compensated on the ground, clearing 100 yards for the fourth time this season. He has reached at least 79 yards rushing each of the past three weeks. Jackson's running is unprecedented for a quarterback at the NFL level. Jackson's ground score was a one-yard keeper on a second quarter third down. His passing touchdown was a beautiful 20-yarder to Mark Andrews following a play fake. The MVP frontrunner has another tough Week 14 matchup in a Buffalo road trip.
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One of the most impressive things to me about Lamar is that he's not being held to the standard of a "Young QB." For some people, there's this expectation that he's already a completely finished product who will never get any better as a passer than he currently is. The reality is that he's still only 22 years old (for another month) and so I compared his stats to what other QBs have done before their 23rd birthday. It showed me that he still has the potential to develop significantly as a QB. It also made me appreciate that Jameis Winston has played a lot at a very early age - for some bad teams - and I could easily see him having a career as good or better than someone like Bledsoe. Also, what happened to Josh Freeman? Based on his early career, it seems like he should have been much better than he turned out to be. And Darnold could still be pretty good too, I'm betting.

Here are stats for starting NFL QBs before their 23rd birthday:

Starts
Jameis Winston 32
Bledsoe 28
Freeman 25
Tarkenton 24
Alex Smith 23
Darnold 22
Lamar 19
Vick 17
Manning 16
Newton 16

Wins
Lamar 16
Winston 15
Bledsoe 15
Freeman 13
Roethlisberger 13

QB Rating (minimum 8 starts)
RG III, 102.4
Lamar 100.9
Ben 98.1
Marino, 96.0
Mariota, 91.5

TDs (and INTs)
Winston 50-33
Bledsoe 40-42
Tarkenton 40-42
Freeman 35-24
Lamar 31-8
Darnold 30-25
Peyton 26-28
Cam Newton 21-17

Passing Yards
Winston 8132
Bledsoe 7049
Freeman 5306
Darnold 5019
Tarkenton 4592
Newton 4051
Alex Smith 3765
Manning 3739
Lamar 3733
Vick 3721
RG III 3200

Rushing Yards
Lamar 1672
Vick 1066
RG III 815
Newton 706
Tarkenton 669
Josh Allen 631
Freeman 525

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
As expected, there has been a lot of LJ discussion on the networks today. One of the comments that I heard earlier this week was (paraphrase):

"Jackson is the new paradigm at QB."

Honestly, I don't see this. IMO, LJ is too unique to become a "paradigm", but I do think that his current success will open the door for other non-typical qbs. The questions is: who can follow suit? I honestly don't know.

Can't wait for kickoff!
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It also requires a coaching staff that is willing to tailor the offense to the QB, and that isn’t common.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
As expected, there has been a lot of LJ discussion on the networks today. One of the comments that I heard earlier this week was (paraphrase):

"Jackson is the new paradigm at QB."

Honestly, I don't see this. IMO, LJ is too unique to become a "paradigm", but I do think that his current success will open the door for other non-typical qbs. The questions is: who can follow suit? I honestly don't know.

Can't wait for kickoff!
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It also requires a coaching staff that is willing to tailor the offense to the QB, and that isn’t common.
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Great point.

Also, if that were to become the "new paradigm" (tailoring the offense to the QB to the extent the Ravens did), rather than just looking for an LJ type, then I would agree the potential is there for other teams to emulate. 

Does anyone have a good comp to what Balt did here? What are some other examples of teams designing a system for a QB?

Here, I am not referring to the "customizing" of an offense or play selection strategies; rather a full on redesign.

 
Walking Boot said:
...the correct ending to this line is "if he fell out of a boat"
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I was thinking in terms of throwing a football.  More in line with a QB as to you or I.  Either way I was way off with Jackson.  Perhaps as a UK fan,  him playing for L,ville clouded my judgement.  You have to admit, when he first became a starter he was horrible.  Looks like the off-season did him well.

 
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JohnnyU said:
I was thinking in terms of throwing a football.  More in line with a QB as to you or I.  Either way I was way off with Jackson.  Perhaps as a UK fan,  him playing for L,ville clouded my judgement.  You have to admit, when he first became a starter he was horrible.  Looks like the off-season did him well.
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What if I told you his QB rating last year - as a 21-year-old rookie thrown into the starting lineup at midseason on a 4-5 team - was higher than Flacco's career QB rating? Or that it was higher than Flacco had in any season since 2014? 

 
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