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[DYNASTY] Lamar Jackson, MVP, Madden Cover. Hopefully Develops as a Passer


massraider

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6 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Last night was not his first postseason action.  It was a good game by fantasy standards, despite the three turnovers, but I am not sure how anyone could have watched that and think he played well.  In the playoffs, you have to finish possessions, and he was unable to do so all night (1 TD, 2 field goals, several big 4th down failures, etc.).  Sure, he threw for a lot of yards, but many would call those empty, inefficient yards; it took him nearly 60 attempts, he barely cracked 6 YPA, and had 3 times as many turnovers as touchdowns. 

All of this. The Ravens as a whole (including coaching) were awful last night, and Lamar was off on a bunch of his passes. He had a few nice runs, but he played poorly and they got beat. 

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2 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

All of this. The Ravens as a whole (including coaching) were awful last night, and Lamar was off on a bunch of his passes. He had a few nice runs, but he played poorly and they got beat. 

The whole team stunk. Bad throws by Lamar, receivers dropping passes, etc. Ingram and Andrews hurt, then more WRs hurt as the game went on. Balitmore definitely needs to add some help as WR. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

playoff games 

I knew people would focus on the wrong point of that post...

So if they keeping getting making the playoffs, winning 12ish games and losing playoff games Baltimore will do what? Release him?

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Agreed.  The Ravens as a whole didn't look great, and when that happens, I put that on coaching.  

They got outplayed & outcoached across the board. I can't think of one Ravens player or coach who had a better game than his Titans counterpart - I guess, maybe, Hollywood Brown? 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

no, but they should reevaluate the position, if indeed it's due to his mental and/or physical ineptitudes. the point is to win super bowls

This Titans team is legendary, first they ended the Patriots dynasty and now they have put a 23 year old MVP on the bubble. 

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19 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

They got outplayed & outcoached across the board. I can't think of one Ravens player or coach who had a better game than his Titans counterpart - I guess, maybe, Hollywood Brown? 

This. They just flat got beat and in a pummeling sort of way. Henry and Vrabel and the rest of the personnel pummeled these guys, much like they pummeled the Patriots.Tannehill was as opportune as he needed to be. He made a big throw after the turnover on downs.

Baltimore had a great year. I don't see where now Lamar Jackson and running comes into question because of viability. They almost viabilitied his ### all the way to the Super Bowl. But, and I know ilov is being tongue-in-cheek, the Titans have been something else these past two games.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

This. They just flat got beat and in a pummeling sort of way. Henry and Vrabel and the rest of the personnel pummeled these guys, much like they pummeled the Patriots.Tannehill was as opportune as he needed to be. He made a big throw after the turnover on downs.

Baltimore had a great year. I don't see where now Lamar Jackson and running comes into question because of viability. They almost viabilitied his ### all the way to the Super Bowl. But, and I know ilov is being tongue-in-cheek, the Titans have been something else these past two games.

Titans are playing great. I wasn't taking a shot at them, just how crazy it is to even be talking about Lamar Jackson potentially losing his job. I guarantee you not a single Ravens personnel guy is even thinking about moving on. Lamar has been a godsend to them and they are going to be thinking, how can improve this offense and get more weapons around him. 

This Tannehill resurgence is just incredible, one of the best stories of the season. Also, as a Jets fan, this has to really piss you off. Gase shouldn't be on a staff yet alone the head of one. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Titans are playing great. I wasn't taking a shot at them, just how crazy it is to even be talking about Lamar Jackson potentially losing his job. I guarantee you not a single Ravens personnel guy is even thinking about moving on. Lamar has been a godsend to them and they are going to be thinking, how can improve this offense and get more weapons around him. 

This Tannehill resurgence is just incredible, one of the best stories of the season. Also, as a Jets fan, this has to really piss you off. Gase shouldn't be on a staff yet alone the head of one. 

Oh, I thought you were being anticipatory about the hyperbole foisted upon TN.

Is anybody here thinking of moving on from Lamar over than lod001, who notoriously hates running QBs and modern football thought? I think there were three guys in the thread last night that hated the running-style QB of about one hundred or one hundred fifty in the game thread. 

Oh, Gase as head coach of Jets and watching what Kenyan Drake and DeVante Parker have done, along with Tannehill, is just a disgrace and borderline stain. That said, they went 7-9 against at times what was a brutal schedule and played four or five without their starting QB, so I guess he gets another year. 

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Oh, I thought you were being anticipatory about the hyperbole foisted upon TN.

Is anybody here thinking of moving on from Lamar over than lod001, who notoriously hates running QBs and modern football thought? I think there were three guys in the thread last night that hated the running-style QB of about one hundred or one hundred fifty in the game thread. 

Oh, Gase as head coach of Jets and watching what Kenyan Drake and DeVante Parker have done, along with Tannehill, is just a disgrace and borderline stain. That said, they went 7-9 against at times what was a brutal schedule and played four or five without their starting QB, so I guess he gets another year. 

Oh I don't think anyone thinking rationale or who is trying to do anything other than save face for bad takes. Dr Dan was just speculating about it here though and he's generally quite sharp. 

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12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

 

Is anybody here thinking of moving on from Lamar over than lod001, who notoriously hates running QBs and modern football thought? 

I have him on ignore, so I only see his posts when he's quoted. But I'm sure you know it's more than "running QBs", right?

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

If I owned him in dynasty, I'd probably inquire as to what I could get for him. I dont see his value ever being higher than it is now, after an MVP season. It would take a lot to get him off my hands, but 2020 is such a good draft it's tempting... Someone would overpay in my 1qb leagues for sure.

 

running QBs bring on more opportunity to get hurt, but Jackson seems to run very smart. We've seen these types of qbs come and go, pretty quickly at that, so I wouldnt blame someone for moving on. It would be really hard for me to though, as it would take a lot and would depend on my qb situation. 

Im not a big fan of running QBs either, but I have my next half decade of success tied to Kyler... 

Ravens are committed for another 3 seasons at least, and by then they should know what Jackson's ceiling is. 

20 carries in a game for a qb...that's borderline too much for a rb.  

I would be selling as well because there is no way he can take this abuse.  You can't play based on injury predictions but there is no way he is even playing 3 years the way he plays right now.  It's almost like the Ravens know this, which i have never seen before.  They truly don't care very much about his health

Edited by killface
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He went 14-2 and beat the 49ers, Seahawks, Pats and Texans. He was 4-2 against playoff teams. I think it's clear what the ceiling is for Lamar. He may not get there. Some QBs choke or have bad luck in the playoffs (Romo, Marino, Fouts, etc). He also could get hurt, it's a risk of running the ball in the NFL. However, I think we know what the ceiling is. 

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57 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Why does one have to be labled a "hater" just because they don't think he played well? If you are watching box scores, yeah he was amazing. If you dissect them further and if you actually watched the game, that wasnt the MVP out there 

 

in the end, this should fall on Harbaugh. He didnt adjust to what the Titans were doing at all

Im not saying he was mvp of the game.  By the way people talk around here it’s like Ryan leaf was out there and he threw 5 ints.  The entire team played bad and they ran up against an extremely hot team that also made the goat look bad last week.  He didn’t have a great game for Lamar but he almost put the team on his back and did it himself.  My point is he needs help.  
 

Either way i thought he had a decent game considering.  

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

The only part about Jackson's game last night that worries me is his composure... I thought he reacted poorly from the first interception on, did not carry himself well imo.

The body language and temper tantrums were not a good look.

I also wasn't a fan of his attitude in the press conference, as he took the "we beat ourselves, they didn't do anything we hadn't seen before" stance, which is a way of not giving the team that just beat you any credit, but he's still young and has a lot to learn.  

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

Why does one have to be labled a "hater" just because they don't think he played well? If you are watching box scores, yeah he was amazing. If you dissect them further and if you actually watched the game, that wasnt the MVP out there 

Hard to exist in a binary online world when you dont agree with one side or the other entirely.

 

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Just now, Ghost Rider said:

I also wasn't a fan of his attitude in the press conference, as he took the "we beat ourselves, they didn't do anything we hadn't seen before" stance, which is a way of not giving the team that just beat you any credit, but he's still young and has a lot to learn.  

Did not see that, agree.

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2 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Im not saying he was mvp of the game.  By the way people talk around here it’s like Ryan leaf was out there and he threw 5 ints.  The entire team played bad and they ran up against an extremely hot team that also made the goat look bad last week.  He didn’t have a great game for Lamar but he almost put the team on his back and did it himself.  My point is he needs help.  
 

Either way i thought he had a decent game considering.  

Lamar didn’t lose the game.  Any time a RB runs for almost 200 yards on your D, a victory seems rather unlikely.   Lamar isn’t perfect but his WRs are not that good.  I think Lamar keeps his job in 2020.  

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2 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Lamar didn’t lose the game.  Any time a RB runs for almost 200 yards on your D, a victory seems rather unlikely.   Lamar isn’t perfect but his WRs are not that good.  I think Lamar keeps his job in 2020.  

It is obvious Lamar keeps his job, but it is also obvious that unless he develops as a passer - the NFL will catch up with him.  Scheme-wise or physically - it will catch up to him.

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I feel bad for Lamar in the sense that this loss will eat at him all off season when it probably shouldn't.  They ran up against a hot team and weren't prepared for the physicality Tenn brought with them on both sides of the ball.  Tenn took away, for the most part, Lamar's bread and butter in the passing game, the TEs.  They caught a lot of passes during garbage time.

Baltimore was out coached and game planned last night.  It didn't help that Ingram was limited.  

Lamar looked rattled and his age showed a bit, but he'll mature and will be fine.  They have the ingredients in place with win the SB.  Lamar needs a possession WR.  He has a down field threat and the TEs are very good.  He could use a wideout who can win 50/50s.  

The 4th down plays were odd as they kept trying the QB sneak.  I know it worked all season but playoff football is different.  A good bootleg with Lamar having to beat someone to the mark outside... I'd take Lamar any day.  Release a TE and give Lamar a chance to choose what he wants to do.  I don't question the decisions to go for it on 4th, but the sneak is a tough call when you do it every time.  

I believe he learns from this loss and comes back strong.  

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4 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

Andy Reid finally winning a Super Bowl is a pretty big one too. I’m sure it will be a big theme during today’s game. 

perfect setup for him to fail again...

but yeah, I had that thought last night too after the Ravens lost, especially.  i like Reid a lot, but seen this charlie brown-lucy kick setup way too many times with him...

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9 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I also wasn't a fan of his attitude in the press conference, as he took the "we beat ourselves, they didn't do anything we hadn't seen before" stance, which is a way of not giving the team that just beat you any credit, but he's still young and has a lot to learn.  

Sign of a young, intense player.  He'll grow up and learn to lose gracefully and realize that there are other opportunities ahead of him.  You can't win them all.  Congratulate the other team and get back to work to improve your team.  

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11 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Mahomes vs. Watson?

Wilson vs. Rodgers?

SF offensive creativity

Titans strange mojo?

seems like plenty to be interested in.

I do like Mahomes. Watson is fun to watch as he's so unpredictable- makes some awful plays and then bails out. However, there offense is pretty lame without Fuller. It is tough to watch Nuk do nothing but run 5 yard outs while Watson runs around in circles in the backfield.  I love Wilson but the Seahawks play like they think he's a weakness. Their ideal gameplan is to run the ball 40 times with Lynch and Homer to win 13-7. I feel great about Tannehill's resurgence but they don't tend to play the most exciting brand of football. San Fran is fine. It is creative how some times they give it to Mostert and sometimes they give it to Tevin Coleman. Kittle and Bosa are worth tuning in for though. 

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13 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Lamar didn’t lose the game.  Any time a RB runs for almost 200 yards on your D, a victory seems rather unlikely.   Lamar isn’t perfect but his WRs are not that good.  I think Lamar keeps his job in 2020.  

Script was perfect for Titan style. Get on top early, run and play aggressive defense.

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33 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I have him on ignore, so I only see his posts when he's quoted. But I'm sure you know it's more than "running QBs", right?

Yes. I think I outright said it to him once. He demurred. I can only do what one can and took him at his word. I think the worst thing for Jackson is the soft, really internalized bigotry that nobody talks about. If you criticize decision-making, what do you mean? If you say his arm is problematic, where does that come from? And so on. I don't know how or where to get into that, and I'd rather have his thread be about football than nonsense that should have been and could have been exploded from the jump. 

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14 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I do like Mahomes. Watson is fun to watch as he's so unpredictable- makes some awful plays and then bails out. However, there offense is pretty lame without Fuller. It is tough to watch Nuk do nothing but run 5 yard outs while Watson runs around in circles in the backfield.  I love Wilson but the Seahawks play like they think he's a weakness. Their ideal gameplan is to run the ball 40 times with Lynch and Homer to win 13-7. I feel great about Tannehill's resurgence but they don't tend to play the most exciting brand of football. San Fran is fine. It is creative how some times they give it to Mostert and sometimes they give it to Tevin Coleman. Kittle and Bosa are worth tuning in for though. 

I'm personally looking forward to today more than yesterday. I just hope the weather in KC is temperate, because I'm not sure Houston wants to trot out ice sculptures out there.

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'm personally looking forward to today more than yesterday. I just hope the weather in KC is temperate, because I'm not sure Houston wants to trot out ice sculptures out there.

Today's games seem on paper more interesting- I was just looking forward to Saints-49ers, Ravens-Chiefs rematches and we aren't going to get either. 

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Jackson is still very young, not sure how he can be expected to match playoff intensity until he has gone thru it a few times.  The Ravens needed someone else to step up and have a great game but injury and a case of the droppies from the receivers laid it at Jackson's feet to win it.  He just doesn't seem quite mature enough as a football player to do that yet.  Rooting for him though he is exciting to watch and comes across as a good guy.

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11 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.

8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020

------------------------------------

I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.

That would win...in Madden.

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I was wrong about Jackson -- he's a lot better than I thought he'd be -- and I absolutely love what the Ravens did with their offense.  I'm not a "hater" and being critical makes me uncomfortable because IMO there are some folks out there who aren't doing it in good faith.

But great QBs are the ones who can throw when the other team knows you have to throw.  And, in general, running QBs, or QBs built with gimmicky offenses around them, can't do that.  IMO it's far more likely than not that to win a SB you'll have to throw when the other team doesn't care about your play action or if you want to get 7 yards in at least one game.  Or against a world-beater defense.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong (I hope so -- what the Ravens did is genius if it works), but that was my assumption before Jackson got drafted and it'll be my assumption until it happens. 

ETA:  his ANY/A was just north of four.  It's hard to win if your QB's throws are less effective than the average run.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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1 hour ago, matuski said:

The only part about Jackson's game last night that worries me is his composure... I thought he reacted poorly from the first interception on, did not carry himself well imo.

The body language and temper tantrums were not a good look.

L-Jack is young and did lose his composure and that is a concern for a QB.  Still think he will be OK but is taking too many hits and is one big hit away from being average if he blows a knee out.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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27 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.

8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020

------------------------------------

I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.

Great for fantasy but he threw/ran 80 times. 508 yards really isn’t that much considering.

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24 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.

8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020

------------------------------------

I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.

This being a FF site, ppl get too caught up in the accumulation of yds (FF pts) as a measure of effectiveness.

Jackson posted a QBR of 31.7... the 2nd lowest of any QB performance thus far in the playoffs (only McCown was lower) 

I'm not saying he sucks based solely on this game, but it's silly to claim he acquitted himself well either.

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25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Mike Clay‏Verified account @MikeClayNFL

Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.

8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020

------------------------------------

I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.

Stats.

This game might be the ultimate demonstration of the gap between a player's value in fantasy and real life.  The mistakes Jackson made with his arm, and the mistakes on those 4th and 1 efforts (his or the coaches) were much bigger in this game than his 500 yards.

I'll take Tannehill's 80 yards on game changing plays.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Great for fantasy but he threw/ran 80 times. 508 yards really isn’t that much considering.

He ran the ball very well. 20/143 - especially good considering there were a few QB sneaks in there where they just plowed him into the OL. His passing wasn't good. The Ravens are clearly lacking at the skill positions to help him out, take the next step. 

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29 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Not sure if you're saying he sucks or that he should stop Derrick Henry?  

If only he could've put up those gaudy Tannenhill numbers then ...

By no means Lamar does suck, but Tannenhill composure was better. 

 

Passing

R. Tannehill 7-14, 88 YDS, 2 TD

L. Jackson 31-59, 365 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT

 

Rushing 

D. Henry 30 CAR, 195 YDS 

L. Jackson 20 CAR, 143 YDS

 

Lamar can't do it all by himself, a superbowl will never be won this way

 

Edited by GROOT
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20 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Not sure if you're saying he sucks or that he should stop Derrick Henry?  

If only he could've put up those gaudy Tannenhill numbers then ...

As I said above.

Tannehill made the plays when he was asked to.  The big moments did not result favorably for Jackson. 

So go off for 500 yards on 60 throws and 20 runs, throw back breaking interceptions and fumbles and dance around behind the line on 4th and 1.  

I will take 80 yards and touchdowns on big plays to win the game.  :shrug:

 

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