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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (9 Viewers)

I'm a Lamar supporter and believer but I agree with Steelers4Life here.  Lamar was pretty brutal in the preseason (50ish% comp percentage, I  think) besides his running, and I haven't really seen him make any spectacular throws during the season either.  I could see them wanting to give him more time.
Exactly. If I had to pick my guess right now I'd lean Jackson. But if Flacco is indeed out I admit it's quite possible they'll go with RGIII for a couple different reasons. 

It seems people are trying too hard to ignore the articles posted by Steelers4Life and now Faust too. We have to acknowledge it's a possibility. Coaches make personnel decisions we disagree with all the time. 

 
I'm a Lamar supporter and believer but I agree with Steelers4Life here.  Lamar was pretty brutal in the preseason (50ish% comp percentage, I  think) besides his running, and I haven't really seen him make any spectacular throws during the season either.  I could see them wanting to give him more time.
I agree with Steelers overall premise as well. I said earlier I own both Jackson and RG3. I came in for some insight into the matter and he delivered. I just think he needs to edit the sentence or two that is hyperbole and detracts from his otherwise fine posts.

That, and the fact that he wasn't viewed as an NFL-ready passer when he was drafted, so unless you think his practices have been out of this world, I don't expect that anything substantial has changed in that area. There's a reason his special plays are all runs or hand-offs, especially when defenses don't respect his passing and the opportunity to exploit that would be there - it definitely was against the Steelers.

Look, I brought it up because there are a ton of reports from early September that said Griffin, not Jackson, would be the primary backup but inactive on gamedays unless Flacco gets hurt. Jackson would be active on gamedays so that he could run his special package of plays, and the Ravens don't activate three QBs. So here we are, Flacco has potentially gotten hurt, and I don't think it's an automatic thing that Jackson is the guy who takes over. People want to believe he's ready, people want to believe he can be a fantasy contributor, and that's cool. He might be.

Personally, I'd love to see him in there opening up running lanes for Alex Collins, because I own Collins in a league. Either way, people can believe whatever they want... it'll all be clear next week. In the meantime, that schedule and the early season reporting make RGIII a somewhat interesting stash right now as either a backup or a possible QB2 in superflex leagues.
Here is another example. A great post until he arrogantly states it will all be clear next week. Will it? One may get benched for the other and we are back to square one. Statements like these could discredit.

 
I agree with Steelers overall premise as well. I said earlier I own both Jackson and RG3. I came in for some insight into the matter and he delivered. I just think he needs to edit the sentence or two that is hyperbole and detracts from his otherwise fine posts.

Here is another example. A great post until he arrogantly states it will all be clear next week. Will it? One may get benched for the other and we are back to square one. Statements like these could discredit.
I wasn't trying to be arrogant by stating that it'll be clear next week. If Flacco is set to miss time, I think we'll have a clear picture of the Ravens' intention, but of course things can always change after that. Everyone states opinions sometimes that sound like they're intended as fact and it never really bothers me, thats the nature of a message board because stating "in my opinion" or "i think" before everything would be pretty cumbersome.

Point taken though.

 
I wasn't trying to be arrogant by stating that it'll be clear next week. If Flacco is set to miss time, I think we'll have a clear picture of the Ravens' intention, but of course things can always change after that. Everyone states opinions sometimes that sound like they're intended as fact and it never really bothers me, thats the nature of a message board because stating "in my opinion" or "i think" before everything would be pretty cumbersome.

Point taken though.
If you have children or intend to, not speaking in absolute terms is pure gold. It took someone as opinionated as me a long time to learn it is well worth the extra effort. Good luck today and thanks for the input and response.

 
He's a horrible passer. You can't fix that overnight. It takes years. If you don't come into the league a good passer,  you rarely become one.

Man coverage, single cover the receivers, spy on the QB, don't let him run, game over.

 
Does anyone think that the recent success of other young QBs will factor into Harbs decision? Is it just a matter being eliminated from the postseason?  It seems most young players have been holding their own. Is John Harbaugh like John Fox?

 
He's a horrible passer. You can't fix that overnight. It takes years. If you don't come into the league a good passer,  you rarely become one.

Man coverage, single cover the receivers, spy on the QB, don't let him run, game over.
Did teams try this in college? It seems simple, but your running de must secure all gaps and your spy has to be a comparable athlete. If not he has shown the ability to extend drives with his wheels. Fantasy points is points.

 
He's a horrible passer. You can't fix that overnight. It takes years. If you don't come into the league a good passer,  you rarely become one.

Man coverage, single cover the receivers, spy on the QB, don't let him run, game over.
I don't watch college football, but I cannot believe this is true.  If so, the entire front office should be fired for wasting a first round pick on a QB who cannot do what QBs do - throw passes. 

 
This can’t be true. All the articles written at the beginning of the season said the opposite.
You can be a smart ### if you want, it's pretty normal around here. I never said it would definitely happen that way, but there was good reason for those articles and still is plenty of reason to think that Jackson isn't a sure thing to get put into the role immediately.  I'm not the only one who's said it, either... Several articles and tweets have mentioned the same possibility in the last couple days.

Things change, and it was worth mentioning no matter how it turns out. Maybe at 4-5 they feel they might as well sink or swim with Jackson, or maybe they've seen something in practice that they haven't let him do in games at all. We'll see.

 
Did teams try this in college? It seems simple, but your running de must secure all gaps and your spy has to be a comparable athlete. If not he has shown the ability to extend drives with his wheels. Fantasy points is points.
Oh, there's no denying he's gonna rack of fantasy points for a few games until a smart DC says break out the Vince Young tape so I can remember how to stop a running QB. Dump him on the worst team in your league as soon as he racks up a couple big run games. He'll be gone in 3 years max.

Running in the NFL is much harder than running in college. There are gaping holes in ever college D outside the SEC.

 
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Oh, there's no denying he's gonna rack of fantasy points for a few games until a smart DC says break out the Vince Young tape so I can remember how to stop a running QB. Dump him on the worst team in your league as soon as he racks up a couple big run games. He'll be gone in 3 years max.
I don’t disagree. I guess it boils down to expectations. I need help with a playoff push in a redraft superflex. Three weeks sounds great to me, but you are spot on about the league and how it resets   throughout the season.

 
He's a horrible passer. You can't fix that overnight. It takes years. If you don't come into the league a good passer,  you rarely become one.

Man coverage, single cover the receivers, spy on the QB, don't let him run, game over.
You undervalue Jackson.  He's not a horrible passer.  I watched him in college and he looks like he could develop into a very good NFL QB.  I think he could be every bit as good as Deshaun Watson over time and with better legs. 

 
Oh, there's no denying he's gonna rack of fantasy points for a few games until a smart DC says break out the Vince Young tape so I can remember how to stop a running QB.
I remember when the smart DCs broke out the game tape in 2006 so they could stop VY. Then he played 4 more seasons and made a Pro Bowl.

 
Sure, but was it worth you making 17 posts in this thread about during the last 48 hours? I think that is probably the main reason you are getting some snark.
Yeah, it was. Mostly responses during some back and forth.  You know, conversations and debate. Sharing opinions. Its a message board, I dont care much about snark. Its been that way on this board for the past 20 years lol.

 
You undervalue Jackson.  He's not a horrible passer.  I watched him in college and he looks like he could develop into a very good NFL QB.  I think he could be every bit as good as Deshaun Watson over time and with better legs. 
Jackson had a career completion percentage in college of 57.0%, and his best season was his last, at 59.1%. In the current passing era, say the last 15-20 years or so, have there been any QBs who were sub-60% passers in college who ended up being "very good" NFL QBs?

Same issue applies to Josh Allen (career 56.2%).

I don't know the answer to this question, so it isn't a loaded question. Jake Locker (54.0), Tyrod Taylor (57.2), Trevor Siemian (58.9), and Jacoby Brissett (59.5) all fit the criteria, and none are/were good NFL passers. It's a small sample size, and Jackson is more athletic and was drafted higher than most of these guys, so it probably doesn't mean much, though I seem to recall Football Outsiders having done some work to show that college completion percentage is among the strongest predictors of NFL QB success.

 
Jackson had a career completion percentage in college of 57.0%, and his best season was his last, at 59.1%. In the current passing era, say the last 15-20 years or so, have there been any QBs who were sub-60% passers in college who ended up being "very good" NFL QBs?

Same issue applies to Josh Allen (career 56.2%).
This is a good post and a legitimate question. It's difficult to find a website that will let you search across multiple NCAA seasons. I was able to do a rudimentary search at Sports-Reference.com, and that search (2000-2017 only) included Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan (along with a bunch of scrubs and has-beens).

So you're telling me there's a chance!

 
This is a good post and a legitimate question. It's difficult to find a website that will let you search across multiple NCAA seasons. I was able to do a rudimentary search at Sports-Reference.com, and that search (2000-2017 only) included Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan (along with a bunch of scrubs and has-beens).

So you're telling me there's a chance!
Jackson's career rate is sub-60%, and he never had a single season where he completed 60%.

Russell Wilson completed 72.8% of his passes in his senior season at Wisconsin and 60.9% of his passes overall in his college career, so he was demonstrably better and didn't meet either criteria (sub-60% for career and every college season).

Ryan is closer, since his career completion percentage was 59.91%, but he had 2 college seasons above 60% (though not by much).

There is an interesting connection between them. Ryan's head coach in college was Tom O'Brien, and O'Brien was Wilson's HC in his 3 seasons at NC State, during which he was sub-60% (though close) each season. Then Wilson went to Wisconsin for one season and completed 72.8% of his passes. Maybe this illustrates that looking at completion percentage is not meaningful since it is so heavily influenced by scheme/playcalling/coaching.

 
Jackson had a career completion percentage in college of 57.0%, and his best season was his last, at 59.1%. In the current passing era, say the last 15-20 years or so, have there been any QBs who were sub-60% passers in college who ended up being "very good" NFL QBs?

Same issue applies to Josh Allen (career 56.2%).

I don't know the answer to this question, so it isn't a loaded question. Jake Locker (54.0), Tyrod Taylor (57.2), Trevor Siemian (58.9), and Jacoby Brissett (59.5) all fit the criteria, and none are/were good NFL passers. It's a small sample size, and Jackson is more athletic and was drafted higher than most of these guys, so it probably doesn't mean much, though I seem to recall Football Outsiders having done some work to show that college completion percentage is among the strongest predictors of NFL QB success.
Matt Stafford fits the bill. 

2006 - 52.7%

2007 - 55.7%

2008 - 61.9%

Career 57.1%

 
You undervalue Jackson.  He's not a horrible passer.  I watched him in college and he looks like he could develop into a very good NFL QB.  I think he could be every bit as good as Deshaun Watson over time and with better legs. 
I agree 100% with this statement.

Once again LOD with the talking points (that are baseless) and he takes it a step further saying Jackson will fail so badly he will be out of the league in 3 years. I have no idea how he is able to form such strong opinions with so little evidence.

Blaine Gabbert and Brock Osweiller are still in the league right now...

 
Just Win Baby said:
Jackson had a career completion percentage in college of 57.0%, and his best season was his last, at 59.1%. In the current passing era, say the last 15-20 years or so, have there been any QBs who were sub-60% passers in college who ended up being "very good" NFL QBs?

Same issue applies to Josh Allen (career 56.2%).

I don't know the answer to this question, so it isn't a loaded question. Jake Locker (54.0), Tyrod Taylor (57.2), Trevor Siemian (58.9), and Jacoby Brissett (59.5) all fit the criteria, and none are/were good NFL passers. It's a small sample size, and Jackson is more athletic and was drafted higher than most of these guys, so it probably doesn't mean much, though I seem to recall Football Outsiders having done some work to show that college completion percentage is among the strongest predictors of NFL QB success.
Completion percentage is an important metric to consider and has been for as long as I have been watching football.

60% is considered the standard because teams want more than a coin flips chance of completing the pass, considering the other risks involved with passing the ball. As Parcells once said, when you throw the ball a lot of bad things can happen and only one of the outcomes is good.

The completion percentage is a large factor in calculating QB rating because of its importance. I used to have the view that a WR with less than 60% catch rate is hurting their QB rating enough that the QB or coach may lose trust in that WR. A QB needs most of their receivers to be catching 60% or more of their targets for the QB to maintain that completion percentage.

However the way the NFL is now, that bench mark is much higher. Recently QBs have been throwing 70% or more over a full season. Sam Bradford did that recently. The level of execution is much higher at the NFL level than it is in college. I think it would be a mistake to compare college QB completion percentage to pro numbers, but there you go.

All of these numbers are pretty useless without context however. The type of offense the QB is running, the protection, the receivers all have affects on completion percentage. An obvious example would be Cam Newton who has been below 60% completion rate almost every year of his career. Part of that is because Cam is inaccurate. Part of him being inaccurate is because he is throwing on the run a lot of the time. Until recently Cam has been taking deep shots down the field with a higher frequency than most QB do as well. These are lower completion % throws.  Now the Panthers have McCaffrey and Cam is throwing it short more often to him and what do you know? Cam currently has a 68.5% completion rate over 9 games. He has never been this good in any season prior to it. I don't think Cam has changed, but the offense he is running and the personnel he has to work with has.

From watching Jackson play first hand I have seen him throw a very accurate ball. He has good pocket awareness and can move the defense out of position by extending plays. Similar to Watson he can function as a point guard who can distribute the ball to the open guy and use his legs to extend plays in the process of doing that. I think he is going to be a great QB in time.

Considering that Joe Flacco is not throwing the ball better than Jackson has (very dissimilar sample sizes) I do not really see why they are so reluctant to make the switch if they are.

There is a lot of pidgeon holing of Jackson in peoples narratives about him that I think stem from other issues and biases people have and that they haven't watched Jackson play enough for them to draw such conclusions. In this case the voice of ignorance is louder than the voice of the more informed.

 
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FWIW (probably not much), ESPN projects Jackson for 21.4 points this week, highest amongst the FA QBs in my league (next 5 are Dak, Stafford, Bortles, Eli, Mariota).

 
From watching Jackson play first hand I have seen him throw a very accurate ball.
He definitely makes some accurate throws. The questions about his accuracy are really about three things IMO:

  1. Can he read defenses well enough to attempt the correct throws?
  2. Can he do that fast enough to get the ball out with regularity before he gets hit or before he feels compelled to scramble?
  3. Can he throw with accuracy on all routes (where expected accuracy obviously varies by route and distance)?
I definitely do not believe that his college performance showed that he checks all these boxes well enough to become a long term NFL starter. I'm not saying he cannot do it, I'm saying the jury is out. I also am of the opinion that QBs drafted in the first round nowadays have typically shown more on college film in these areas than Jackson has.

 
He definitely makes some accurate throws. The questions about his accuracy are really about three things IMO:

  1. Can he read defenses well enough to attempt the correct throws?
  2. Can he do that fast enough to get the ball out with regularity before he gets hit or before he feels compelled to scramble?
  3. Can he throw with accuracy on all routes (where expected accuracy obviously varies by route and distance)?
I definitely do not believe that his college performance showed that he checks all these boxes well enough to become a long term NFL starter. I'm not saying he cannot do it, I'm saying the jury is out. I also am of the opinion that QBs drafted in the first round nowadays have typically shown more on college film in these areas than Jackson has.
In regards to these 3 issues.

1. I am not sure about Jacksons football intelligence as far as reading defenses. I noticed he threw the ball deep a lot and also over the middle. I was more confident in how Watson read defenses than Jackson however, I am not sure Jackson is at the same level of his development as Watson yet. 

2. This is true of all QB in the NFL. They need to get the ball out quickly and to do that requires good presnap reads and throwing with anticipation before receivers are open. Throwing with timing and accuracy counting on your receiver to be where they are supposed to be. I do think Jackson has work to do on this. It is somewhat related to issue one, reading the defense and quickly processing that so they can get the ball out quickly. I think Jackson has been more likely to hold the ball and extend the play than getting it out quickly.

3. His throwing accuracy from what I recall was very good on deep routes in a relative sense and that he did not dump it off to RB or other high percentage routes as much as the other college QB prospects did. That is documented earlier on in the thread. Jackson has the arm strength to make all of the throws, but his throwing technique needed some work to improve his accuracy on all throws.

To mr the evaluations of Jackson reminded me of some of the BS criticism of Teddy Bridgewater. Both coming out of Louisville. I can't quite put my finger on what it is? It does not seem like these two QB have gotten a fair shake from draftniks and so on. So many of them seemed to just be parroting the same running QB cannot throw the ball narratives I have heard so many  times over the years.

 
FWIW (probably not much), ESPN projects Jackson for 21.4 points this week, highest amongst the FA QBs in my league (next 5 are Dak, Stafford, Bortles, Eli, Mariota).
Nice to see that my QBBC duo are both FAs in your league. 

 
i'm a fan and picked him up last week in my only redraft (have on a few dynasty teams).

His running ability and schedule have me liking him over Brady ROS... will likely drop Brady due to short benches, still have Roth

 
i'm a fan and picked him up last week in my only redraft (have on a few dynasty teams).

His running ability and schedule have me liking him over Brady ROS... will likely drop Brady due to short benches, still have Roth
I traded for Brady last week--boy was I disappointed I didn't do the extra homework on him. He's going dowhnill. I grabbed Jackson myself, and am hoping to get me Dak tonight as at least a streamer for this week. Would love it if Jackson turns into something.

 
If Jackson proves to be a threat as a passer as well as a runner, then for sure I can see how that benefits the RBs.

However if Jackson doesn't make defenses respect the threat of the pass, so they stack the box to defend the run, I'm not sure how that would help Collins.

 
Like I said, Jackson isn't a lock and anyone with him would be smart to at least stash Griffin until it's sorted out... Jackson was outplayed by Griffin in the preseason and hasn't been asked to be anything resembling an NFL starting QB so far this year. If he was a project that needed development time before the season, it's likely that he still is one even if he's a great runner.

The Athletic's Jeff Zrebiec reports the Ravens have "continually mentioned" Robert Griffin III as a candidate to start this week.

This isn't the first time we've seen Griffin as an option over Lamar Jackson if Joe Flacco (hip) sits. Griffin outplayed Jackson in the preseason, but Jackson has been active as the No. 2 quarterback for his role in Baltimore's dual-QB packages. The expectation has been that Jackson would get the start, but this is a situation worth monitoring.

 
Every article from the beginning of the season said Griffin is the actual backup QB and Jackson is the #3, and if Flacco would ever be expected to miss time, it'd be Griffin stepping into that role with Jackson staying in the role he's in right now.

Even if Flacco is hurt, it may not be time for Jackson just yet.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2793848-robert-griffin-iii-reportedly-to-be-ravens-backup-qb-ahead-of-lamar-jackson

This is just one example. If you do a quick search of articles in early September, there are plenty more. Griffin had a strong preseason.

Griffin is inactive on gamedays because he's not the running threat Jackson is and wouldn't have that kind of package, and Jackson can take over in a pinch during a game. But if Flacco is inactive, it's not a sure thing that Jackson gets the role yet. Maybe something has changed since.

Edit to add another one: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/robert-griffin-iii-wins-ravens-backup-job-lamar-jackson-will-be-teams-third-qb/


….and this is an ESPN article after the first game.  It basically says that they're only dressing Jackson and Flacco because of the special packages Jackson can play in, but in the case of an injury to Flacco, it would "likely" be RGIII's show.

BALTIMORE -- The Baltimore Ravens decided to go with rookie first-round pick Lamar Jackson as the backup quarterback to Joe Flacco in Sunday's season-opening 47-3 win over the Buffalo Bills.

The Ravens announced that Robert Griffin III was inactive, which means Baltimore suited up two quarterbacks in Flacco and Jackson.

Going with Jackson could indicate that the Ravens intend to use him in two-quarterback plays with Flacco or in specialized packages for Jackson, especially in the red zone, where he was most effective in the preseason. Coach John Harbaugh said in June that Jackson would be active on game days, but Harbaugh wouldn't disclose the No. 2 quarterback leading up to the opener.

Jackson, the 2016 Heisman Trophy winner, finished the preseason strong, posting a 103.2 passer rating in his last two games. He ran for 136 yards (12th-most by any player in the preseason this year) and scored three touchdowns.

Asked four days ago if he is ready to take the field in any capacity, Jackson said: "Absolutely. I've been preparing for it through the OTAs, rookie minicamp. I'm just ready."

Griffin, the No. 2 pick in the 2012 draft, was more efficient and consistent than Jackson in training camp and preseason. He would likely start if Flacco misses any games.

With him on the roster for Week 1, Griffin's $1 million salary is guaranteed.

But the Ravens are intrigued by Jackson's playmaking ability, which can boost last year's No. 27 offense.

Jackson came in for Flacco in the third quarter, after Flacco went 25-for-34 for 236 yards. Jackson did little more than hand off the ball after entering with a 40-0 lead.

Griffin's impressive play came after he was out of the league last season. It led the Ravens to keep three quarterbacks for the first time since 2009.

Griffin prepared for the possibility of not playing.

"I will be understanding of that throughout the season and whatever may be," he said Friday.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


I'm just going by everything that was reported at the time. You can argue with those articles and there are lots of examples of it beyond the few that I posted.

On gameday, they only activate 2 QBs. They want Jackson to be active because they have a specific set of plays for him to run.

  • If Flacco were to get hurt in the middle of the game, they'd let Jackson finish the game.
  • But, if Flacco is hurt and inactive for a game, Griffin would be the starter with Jackson remaining the backup.
I'm not saying it WILL be the case. Maybe something has changed since early September.  But there are a lot of articles and reasons to believe it will be and I won't be surprised either way.


Again, I'm not the one who reported it. But it was reported just about everywhere 3 months ago regardless of whatever "talk" has been out there lately. Like I said, maybe something has changed since then.

By just about all accounts, Griffin outplayed Jackson in the preseason. That doesn't change that Jackson is the QB of the future there, but he's a runner right now and he's not remotely close to ready to lead an offense. The Ravens would be punting the season by installing him as their QB. Not that Griffin is a star, but he can throw the ball and read defenses better than Jackson and he'd be far more prepared to start.

You may not think so, but if I'm Harbaugh and my job is on the line, I'd rather roll with the QB I think will give me the better chance to win. To me, that's RGIII.


https://ravenswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/09/joe-flacco-injury-would-the-ravens-turn-to-lamar-jackson-or-robert-griffin-iii/

It's not as simple as some people want to believe. Should be a fun week until there's some clarity though.

I wonder why the Ravens turned down trade offers for Griffin when he's on a 1 year contract behind both Flacco and (supposedly) Jackson. It might be because they'd need Griffin as a backup in case of a Flacco injury while they develop Jackson and allow him to run his small package of mostly running plays.

Time will tell.


LOL I don't. But when it's reported 3 months ago by everyone and makes perfect sense, I tend to listen when the situation might present itself. At least a little bit. I won't be surprised no matter which one of them would take over if Flacco misses time.

Making Lamar Jackson active as long as Flacco is healthy so he can run his package of plays to utilize his legs occasionally makes sense. Making someone as raw as him the starting QB on a team that's trying to compete doesn't make as much sense... although anyone who owns Jackson in fantasy will think otherwise. 


I posted a CBS article, an ESPN article, and a bleacher report article. There are more out there and they all say basically the same thing. It was pretty much forgotten when Jackson was active for the games and Griffin wasn't, but Jackson offers his role as a runner and is more useful than a strict backup QB would be. 

If Flacco is out, Jackson may get the start. But I wouldn't say it's absolutely certain unless all of those articles are wrong or something has changed with their thinking in the last three months


And to play devil's advocate...

Harbaugh is coaching for his job right now and Lamar Jackson doesn't look like he's remotely close to being a threat as a passer. When he's in the game, he's either running it or handing it off. There's a chance - and it's not a slim one - that RGIII would give the Ravens a better chance to win right now than Jackson. It may be a no-brainer, and the decision may not be Jackson. The coach being on the hot seat might be exactly the reason they DON'T start the raw rookie who's not ready. Jackson might be special someday, but it's not someday yet.

That's why I just presented the information. People can believe it or not believe it and hope for what they want to see happen. I can see them going to RGIII to see if he can keep them in the race for a bit while Jackson continues to work in, and once the season is officially lost, maybe Jackson sees a few starts towards the end. I won't be surprised at all if Jackson gets the nod, but it's anything but an obvious decision (unless you're a fantasy owner of Jackson). 


"Upside" is a dangerous word sometimes.  That might be more of a reason NOT to play him. When Jackson came into the game against the Steelers, the Steelers didn't respect the pass at all. They brought everyone in close. I don't think Jackson is ready to lead an offense yet - it's one thing to be able to run, it's another to face an NFL defense that gameplans and knows you can't pass. That's also a recipe that could get their future QB hurt, and they knew he was a developmental project when they drafted him.  

They had Griffin on a 1 year deal as the more experienced backup and decided not to trade him when teams asked, and all reporting after final cutdowns said he outperformed Jackson in the preseason.  He'd be the backup in case of a Flacco injury. Unless Jackson has shown them something in practices, I doubt roughly 40 NFL snaps (all of which being in either garbage time or as gimmick running plays) have done anything to really prepare him in a way that would make him any more prepared. 

I doubt Harbaugh sees their season as toast either. He should, but I doubt he does. I get it though - people who own Jackson want to see him play and they might. 


It's not about bias at all. Personally, I hope the Ravens suck every week, every year. But my feelings on Jackson have nothing to do with that. When he was drafted, he wasn't viewed as ready. Sure, he can run, but being a QB takes a lot more than that or it can be dangerous, and that's why he basically hasn't been asked to pass outside of some garbage time action. His "package" plays are almost exclusively runs, and if I'm the Ravens, I'm not sure I want to expose him to stacked lines of defenses that know he's not much of a threat to throw it effectively.

I'm not saying he'll never be able to be an effective passer, but I'm saying that he wasn't thought of as ready when he's drafted and he (by just about every account) was outplayed by Griffin in the preseason. That wasn't my opinion, it was plenty of others'.  There's good reason that he's been active over Griffin every week, because his running threat is useful. But being asked to play a full game? I don't know that I see that yet.

I've been wrong plenty before like all of us, and I could be completely off base now. But unless you think there was no basis to any of the reports at the start of the year, or unless you think some running plays and garbage time action have changed things, there's at least some reason to believe that it wouldn't be Jackson taking over.


That, and the fact that he wasn't viewed as an NFL-ready passer when he was drafted, so unless you think his practices have been out of this world, I don't expect that anything substantial has changed in that area. There's a reason his special plays are all runs or hand-offs, especially when defenses don't respect his passing and the opportunity to exploit that would be there - it definitely was against the Steelers.

Look, I brought it up because there are a ton of reports from early September that said Griffin, not Jackson, would be the primary backup but inactive on gamedays unless Flacco gets hurt. Jackson would be active on gamedays so that he could run his special package of plays, and the Ravens don't activate three QBs. So here we are, Flacco has potentially gotten hurt, and I don't think it's an automatic thing that Jackson is the guy who takes over. People want to believe he's ready, people want to believe he can be a fantasy contributor, and that's cool. He might be.

Personally, I'd love to see him in there opening up running lanes for Alex Collins, because I own Collins in a league. Either way, people can believe whatever they want... it'll all be clear next week. In the meantime, that schedule and the early season reporting make RGIII a somewhat interesting stash right now as either a backup or a possible QB2 in superflex leagues.


Completely agree, that might be the case. Or maybe the fact that RGIII (by almost all accounts) outplayed Jackson in the preseason means something, and RGIII would have every bit as much of a chance of providing a spark to the offense. I really don't know.  

My point isn't that I'm right or anyone's wrong. I never said I was sure about anything - I referenced a few reports, and there have even been a couple tweets and articles from the past two days that say the same thing as what I'm saying, so I'm not exactly alone in thinking it.  It's that we don't know no matter how "sure" anyone is.


My thoughts aren't based on my gut or my fantasy team. It was pretty well documented early the season. Now, if the Ravens record changes their plans or Jackson has shown something in practices that changes that stuff, so be it. Again, I never said it was going to happen, but it's not unrealsitic if you believe what they said 3 months ago.

Of course, should've expected this reaction poating it in the Lamar Jackson thread lol.


Matter of opinion if you actually feel those are similar situations. Big difference is that it was made clear early in the year why RGIII would be inactive on gamedays in lieu of Jackson. It wasn't based on performance, because by basically all accounts RGIII was The better QB in the preseason and OTA's.

The question is if you believe things will also play out how it was reported to in the event of a Flacco injury. Are the Ravens going to try to win to save Harbaugh's job, and who gives them the better chance to do that THIS year. Time will tell.


That's fair. I'd just point to the fact that it was nearly universally accepted that Jackson was not likely to be ready in year one and would need some time to develop as a passer before taking over. Does a half season of practices and about 40 snaps in gimmick plays and garbage time speed that timeline up?

And by all accounts, that QB who had been out of football really had a different attitude and played well... Which is why teams inquired about trading for him. For some reason, the Ravens decided to keep him on a one year contract rather than trading him.


You can be a smart ### if you want, it's pretty normal around here. I never said it would definitely happen that way, but there was good reason for those articles and still is plenty of reason to think that Jackson isn't a sure thing to get put into the role immediately.  I'm not the only one who's said it, either... Several articles and tweets have mentioned the same possibility in the last couple days.

Things change, and it was worth mentioning no matter how it turns out. Maybe at 4-5 they feel they might as well sink or swim with Jackson, or maybe they've seen something in practice that they haven't let him do in games at all. We'll see.


Like I said, Jackson isn't a lock and anyone with him would be smart to at least stash Griffin until it's sorted out... Jackson was outplayed by Griffin in the preseason and hasn't been asked to be anything resembling an NFL starting QB so far this year. If he was a project that needed development time before the season, it's likely that he still is one even if he's a great runner.

The Athletic's Jeff Zrebiec reports the Ravens have "continually mentioned" Robert Griffin III as a candidate to start this week.

This isn't the first time we've seen Griffin as an option over Lamar Jackson if Joe Flacco (hip) sits. Griffin outplayed Jackson in the preseason, but Jackson has been active as the No. 2 quarterback for his role in Baltimore's dual-QB packages. The expectation has been that Jackson would get the start, but this is a situation worth monitoring.
I'm not sure what your point is.  Could you repeat it?

 
I'm not sure what your point is.  Could you repeat it?
I could, but I won't. Some were receptive to thoughts contrary to their own, some completely disregarded it as old news and paid it no attention at all, like it was crazy to think that might happen because Jackson is just too talented. Ignore me or my posts if you want to, won't bother me.

I brought it up again just for the people who completely disregarded the info. Sorry if you don't like that.

Edit to add that most of those outside the first two and the very last one were responses to others' responses to me.  You know, a back and forth on a message board that I got involved with. Crazy, I know.

 
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I could, but I won't. Some were receptive to thoughts contrary to their own, some completely disregarded it as old news and paid it no attention at all, like it was crazy to think that might happen because Jackson is just too talented. Ignore me or my posts if you want to, won't bother me.

I brought it up again just for the people who completely disregarded the info. Sorry if you don't like that.

Edit to add that most of those outside the first two and the very last one were responses to others' responses to me.  You know, a back and forth on a message board that I got involved with. Crazy, I know.
This is why I brought it up previously, when you posted 17 times in 2 days about it. Discussion is fine and encouraged, but rehashing that many times in a condensed period is unnecessary and bombs the thread. :shrug:  

 
I could, but I won't. Some were receptive to thoughts contrary to their own, some completely disregarded it as old news and paid it no attention at all, like it was crazy to think that might happen because Jackson is just too talented. Ignore me or my posts if you want to, won't bother me.

I brought it up again just for the people who completely disregarded the info. Sorry if you don't like that.

Edit to add that most of those outside the first two and the very last one were responses to others' responses to me.  You know, a back and forth on a message board that I got involved with. Crazy, I know.
Beautiful, thanks!  :hifive:

 
I’m sure there is a reason they do it this way, but giving partial stars to Lamar and Flacco in the projections is pretty unhelpful. For me, I think he’s going to be in the crowded QB6-10 range if he holds the job and they let him run at all. 

 
Jackson had a career completion percentage in college of 57.0%, and his best season was his last, at 59.1%. In the current passing era, say the last 15-20 years or so, have there been any QBs who were sub-60% passers in college who ended up being "very good" NFL QBs?

Same issue applies to Josh Allen (career 56.2%).

I don't know the answer to this question, so it isn't a loaded question. Jake Locker (54.0), Tyrod Taylor (57.2), Trevor Siemian (58.9), and Jacoby Brissett (59.5) all fit the criteria, and none are/were good NFL passers. It's a small sample size, and Jackson is more athletic and was drafted higher than most of these guys, so it probably doesn't mean much, though I seem to recall Football Outsiders having done some work to show that college completion percentage is among the strongest predictors of NFL QB success.
Several factors to take into consider ( that non  locals probably wouldnt know)  First Louisville very seldomdumps the ball off to the rb so those easy percentage boosting passes  mostly non existing in the Louisville offense,  2nd,  Louisvilles receivers were horrid with drops affecting his completion %  ans 3rd Louisvilles O line was attrocious  and any QB would losesome completions based  on being hurried/hit.  All in all Lamar throws a great deep ball but does have  issues with some of th eintermediate throws.... I certainly wouldnt say he is one of the most  polished and accurate QBs Ive seen play but he is no wheres near as innacurate as some  would lead you to believe. 

 
I’d say it’s pretty obvious the whole “QB Mystery” storyline is intended to provide Jackson cover from the press this week before he replaces a Ravens’ legend permanently.

 
Really? Do we know he is a horrible passer? Are you sure? Guessing his college tape showed this? Or are you going by his preseason tape? I seem to remember a pretty good deep ball and leaving someone like John Brown one on one could be an issue if you're wrong. Can't judge the kid based off preseason tape he was learning a pro playbook and trying to absorb it all. Much different than a college playbook and maybe he's not there yet but I would scout more from the college tape than his preseason tape to be fair of what he could be. 

And if he was that horrible waisting a first round pick on a QB that can't throw is an awful decision by maybe one of the best GM's of our time.
That they traded up for to get the year 5 option at #32 overall. I'm leaning this is going to happen.

 

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